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I wouldn’t be surprised if Ebba demands that the opinion of KD should be respected by Moderaterna, even if they’re out of Riksdagen. Wouldn’t put that sort of insanity past her.
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Jun 6, 2018 07:36
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Ebba Busch Thor for Swedens first manned mission to the sun
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Jun 6, 2018 07:44
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so that means I can be a cheapskate and post about posting instead of having some wit or spending any more on comedy avs for people. Which I'm also incapable of. Comedy.
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I just love how her legacy will be changing the logotype and killing the party.
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Jun 6, 2018 08:04
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Postorder Trollet89 posted:So, SCB is in: The 28.3% is not good for S, since they have produced a 3-4% lower election result compared to the SCB, which basically all political commentators remarked upon. The latest polls indicate this. Also, with respect to the polls, taking the poll of polls is probably the most stable estimate of the voter movements. Mostly because different systematic errors gets averaged out in some way, for example Sentio/YouGovs web panels versus Ipsos telephone calls. Sentio have sofar been the best institute to estimate SD, but worse for other parties. As for Kd, ironically there is a Comrade 4% on the right wing as well, where M voters tend to vote Kd if needed. So I wouldn't count them out yet, but who cares. MP on the other hand have a history of being overestimated, so their 4.3% might be cause for concern. Interesting to see that M is still going ok, where 22.6% is a good number for them historically. Or to put it like this (disregard the text): https://twitter.com/Fytne/status/1004722823460458497 I think the noteworthy thing is how M have remained at the same levels, even despite us knowing that they have lost a bunch of voters to SD. As for S recovering, it is worth noting that S core voters are literally dying off since they have the largest support amongst the elderly. Also, with respect to Ruists report last week. https://www.dagenssamhalle.se/debatt/ingen-oenighet-om-flyktinginvandringens-kostnader-22529 https://www.ekonomism.us/entry/offe..._medium=twitter https://ekonomistas.se/2018/06/01/fullmatad-rapport-om-flyktingars-integration/ Add to that Ekbergs report from 2009. Ruists report (which apparently was peer-reviewed) was in a way old news, since it is in line with other studies, which incidentally Sanandaj covered in Massutmaning. The simple reasoning is this: The Swedish economic system is based on wealth transfers from the working population to the young and the elderly. Refugees (which this report covers) should in theory be good for the economy since they have a favorable age range to join the working force and contribute quickly, since education and such are already paid for. For the wealth transfers to work, roughly 70% of refugees should work in order to break even. As it turns out, the refugees end up being a cost due to reduced income from work but with full costs on the order of 60-70 billion a year or roughly 1% of BNP. Cardiac fucked around with this message at 14:29 on Jun 8, 2018 |
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Jun 8, 2018 14:26
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According to our friends in the EU Commission, our lives are not sufficiently dictated from afar (well, except for Sweden, which supposedly is inspiration for the below reform suggestion) - Thus it should now be EU law, and thus national law, that parental leave is non transferable between the mother and father. https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?qid=1494930128433&uri=CELEX:52017DC0252 posted:Across the European Union, women remain underrepresented in the labour market. The economic loss due to the gender employment gap amounts to €370 billion per year 1 . Women are increasingly well qualified and more women than men graduate from universities in Europe but many disappear from the labour market due to their responsibilities as parent or as carer of family relatives. Existing policies have not brought equal opportunities that allow fathers and mothers to work and care together for the welfare of children and society at large. This would require a change of law in Denmark where the parents can decide for themselves how to distribute 32 weeks of the paid parental leave (with and additional 18 weeks being earmarked for the mother, and 2 for the father). Just not progressive enough, it seems. The current government parties are against. It seems even S is against it, I guess they still have some pockets of common sense, as they should have since they opposed the same nonsense when they themselves were in government. However the reform turns out after the politicians stop bickering, if it is 4 months for each parent earmarked, or 2 for the man, it is a good example on encroachment in national matters, and in the end on personal matters, and one of the reasons why the EU has become increasingly problematic to many over the last decade. Personally I admire Norway's trade centric relation to the EU and I wish we had that here. Oh, and I just saw the funny new avatar in another thread. It's awesome that some antifa apologist, or whatever, got so steaming mad, that xir spent money and time on that. A badge of honor if I ever saw one 
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Jun 13, 2018 11:19
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Meh, 4 months non-transferable per parent is awesome. vvvvv  vvvvv
Potrzebie fucked around with this message at 12:38 on Jun 13, 2018 |
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Jun 13, 2018 12:22
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Looking forward to see how that goes over in Poland.
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Jun 13, 2018 12:25
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Rnr posted:According to our friends in the EU Commission, our lives are not sufficiently dictated from afar (well, except for Sweden, which supposedly is inspiration for the below reform suggestion) - Thus it should now be EU law, and thus national law, that parental leave is non transferable between the mother and father. As a man, I look forward to having some forced leave whenever me and the girl decide we are going to spawn goblins. Thankfully I do not have to suffer a severe career setback for the privilege of interacting with my kids. This also helps breaking the self-perpetuating loop of keeping women in the home by the sheer force of economics - a lot of people can't afford to have the man take an equal amount of time off. But uh sure
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Jun 13, 2018 12:57
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I don't care about the technicalities of maternity leave. Tell us more about that shiny new avatar you totally didn't buy for yourself.
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Jun 13, 2018 13:08
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Retarded Goatee posted:As a man, I look forward to having some forced leave whenever me and the girl decide we are going to spawn goblins. Thankfully I do not have to suffer a severe career setback for the privilege of interacting with my kids. This also helps breaking the self-perpetuating loop of keeping women in the home by the sheer force of economics - a lot of people can't afford to have the man take an equal amount of time off. But uh sure Sure, I get where you're coming from. I'm just saying that we already have the option to do exactly that, the man and woman can chose to split the leave pretty much as they want, depending on how they want to lead their life. I think that is a good balance in this policy. In my own case I actually took a lower paying, but similar job and moved to a quieter, less expensive place with my family, so both my wife and I can work part time - in order to have more time with our children while they are small. I took a month leave, wife took the rest, as we felt would fit our situation best. I don't want a government, least of all one in brussels, to make those kind of decisions for us. Rnr fucked around with this message at 14:22 on Jun 13, 2018 |
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Jun 13, 2018 14:08
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Rnr posted:Sure, I get where you're coming from. I'm just saying that we already have the option to do exactly that, the man and woman can chose to split the leave pretty much as they want, depending on how they want to lead their life. I think that is a good balance in this policy. Jesus H Christ how do you manage to say this kinda poo poo with a straight face?
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Jun 13, 2018 14:28
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Groda posted:Looking forward to see how that goes over in Poland.
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Jun 13, 2018 15:14
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Rnr posted:blablabla I feel really sorry for your children. Maybe non-transferable parental leave is not that great of an idea if it means a lot of kids will be stuck listening to their dads rant about white genocide. thotsky fucked around with this message at 15:23 on Jun 13, 2018 |
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Jun 13, 2018 15:14
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evil_bunnY posted:Can’t loving wait, also in the Netherlands where you literally get 3 days as a dad. Considering the parental leave times in the Netherlands I bet it's the same ratio as Denmark though 
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Jun 13, 2018 15:41
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It's official: FrP has nominated Trump for the Nobel Peace Prize.
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Jun 13, 2018 17:53
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You would think that having "trolling the libs" as a political policy would be shortchanging your voters, but FRP and Trump voters value that activity above pretty much anything else at the moment so that's a pretty decent move for them. Since I don't value the Nobel Peace Price as an institution I'd rather FRP spend their energy on this than something that would actually hurt people.
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Jun 13, 2018 17:59
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The problem is that FrP has energy to do both.
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Jun 13, 2018 18:01
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Rnr posted:According to our friends in the EU Commission, our lives are not sufficiently dictated from afar (well, except for Sweden, which supposedly is inspiration for the below reform suggestion) - Thus it should now be EU law, and thus national law, that parental leave is non transferable between the mother and father. 52 weeks is a little low, say hello to 480 days per child in Sweden, which btw can be decreased to 4-5 days per week to prolong the period you can use them. In fact you can save them until the kid is 12. Oh and having basically no limits on how long you can be home with a sick kids (Denmark has 2 days btw). I have taken and will be take 8 weeks vacations last and this year (well as much as being home with kids count as vacation). The mandatory 4 months for the dad I don’t believe should be mandatory based on the idea to make dads take more days, since at least in Sweden the number of days fathers took increased well in advance of 2 (not the recent 3) being mandatory. Especially in the Swedish system, where parents are home more than one year and it is exceptionally easy to combine those days to prolong the summer vacation. Also, since you won’t get daycare until the kid is one and it is easiest to get good daycare spots in the autumn, most parents will end up taking long parental leaves and fitting in months for the dad is easy. Finally, we will probably never have fully equal share for natural reasons ie most kids breastfeed until well after 6 months, but one way achieve some part of it is more equality in the work life in terms of salary and attitudes.
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Jun 14, 2018 06:33
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Cardiac posted:52 weeks is a little low, say hello to 480 days per child in Sweden, which btw can be decreased to 4-5 days per week to prolong the period you can use them. In fact you can save them until the kid is 12. Somebody calmly making a case on the debate & discussion forum, well I never. Yes, the EU reform does explicitly state that any nation can choose to expand on the right given. They themselves stated that Sweden was used as an ideal when drafting the reform, but my guess is that they toned it a bit down comparatively, in order to give it a chance to pass. I think we agree mostly, I feel the combined right to care for your child, which is very generous across the nordics, is a cool and good thing. I read the above as you saying that you think 4 months mandatory for the dad is too much, and shouldn't be enshrined in law, or it is at least unneeded, since in Sweden dads already take a good amount of leave? So it seems you want to achieve a closer distribution, but still recognize that the woman will take more leave than the man, but want to achieve that through mostly voluntary choice by the parents? I don't want to misrepresent you. My point of view is that the time given as a right to the parents is the good core of this and what should be protected. The internal distribution of that time in the family, should be up to the individuals in the family. In that way it is given as a right and not as a mandate and respects individual agency. Cardiac posted:most kids breastfeed until well after 6 months Retarded Goatee posted:As a man, I look forward to having some forced leave whenever me and the girl decide we are going to spawn goblins. Thankfully I do not have to suffer a severe career setback for the privilege of interacting with my kids. This also helps breaking the self-perpetuating loop of keeping women in the home by the sheer force of economics - a lot of people can't afford to have the man take an equal amount of time off. But uh sure Can I ask why you look forward to being forced to do this, instead of just talking with your partner and agreeing that what you want is for you to take 4 months or however much you want? Which you have the right to do right now most likely (not sure which of the Nordics you are from). You are correct about my anecdote about our choice to cut back on work to spend time with our children, not everyone are in a situation to do that. Fair enough. But even with the current law in any of the Nordics it would always be possible to have a 50/50 distribution of leave between the parents, if they really wanted that, would be my argument. A related statistic: In 2014, for the shared pool of leave days, 88% was taken by the woman, in Denmark.
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Jun 14, 2018 07:54
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Rnr posted:
Without legislation, most people will be forced to look to the practical outcomes. What this means is that the man who in most cases is the person who earns the most going back to work asap. This in turn further enforces the woman being at home, which in turn cripples her own ability to build a career. At the same time, should you decide not to do it the way described above, the bread-winner will get his own career penalized for taking paternity leave, which means that the familys situation is set back further. "Free choice" in this case is an illusion to huge swathes of the population. Legislation levels the playing field. Also, on a social and cultural level, I really don't think having the father spend more time with his children possibly could be a bad thing.
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Jun 14, 2018 09:06
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Retarded Goatee posted:Without legislation, most people will be forced to look to the practical outcomes. What this means is that the man who in most cases is the person who earns the most going back to work asap. This in turn further enforces the woman being at home, which in turn cripples her own ability to build a career. Good points. However, the first paragraph would be true if economics was the only thing in play here and if parents always valued maximizing income more than spending time with their child. I'm not sure I agree that Denmark is full of families that cannot bear that the husband's income curve takes a slight break in its projected rise because he decides to spend 5 months on leave, which is what happens. The same happens to the woman, which also accounts for some of the existing pay gap in our societies. Here is a pretty good recent article in Vox, which has a lot of data on the what goes on with the pay gap and parental leave: https://www.vox.com/2018/2/19/17018380/gender-wage-gap-childcare-penalty (Remember when looking on the graphs, that women take 88% of the parental leave days). As for you second sentence, I agree to the degree that men and women should have level playing fields as in equal opportunity, to the degree that this is possible and also good for our children. People have a personal preference for making the choices they make, which matters the most according to the data. quote:“What our evidence shows is that a lot of gender inequality is associated with choices that suggest different preferences,” Kleven says. “The holy grail is understanding whether those preferences are social norms, or something more intrinsic.” I don't think there is an easy answer to that. And people that seriously think humans are just 100% nurture (vs nature) frighten me (not saying that this is you).
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Jun 14, 2018 10:13
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Alhazred posted:It's official: FrP has nominated Trump for the Nobel Peace Prize. I have toxxed that trump never receives the Peace Prize. There is no loving way, regardless of the retardedness that is FRP. ...said increasingly nervous man for the nth time.
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Jun 14, 2018 10:31
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Nice piece of fish posted:I have toxxed that trump never receives the Peace Prize. There is no loving way, regardless of the retardedness that is FRP.
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Jun 14, 2018 10:36
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A Buttery Pastry posted:For him to actually get it would mean he actually somewhat deserves it On the other hand, Obama, Kissinger, Suu Kyi...
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Jun 14, 2018 11:49
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SplitSoul posted:On the other hand, Obama, Kissinger, Suu Kyi...
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Jun 14, 2018 12:03
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A Buttery Pastry posted:What's there to be nervous about in Trump getting the Peace Prize? For him to actually get it would mean he actually somewhat deserves it, which would be pretty good considering the alternative is Trump turning everything from the Indus to the Sinai into a war zone. The peace price is often not given out to people/entities that are always big proponents of peace but to people with the capability to produce peace. It's more useful to see it being given out as an incentive and inducer of public pressure for the people in charge of a conflict.
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Jun 14, 2018 12:08
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Zudgemud posted:The peace price is often not given out to people/entities that are always big proponents of peace but to people with the capability to produce peace. It's more useful to see it being given out as an incentive and inducer of public pressure for the people in charge of a conflict.
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Jun 14, 2018 12:30
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The very little his date with Kim acheived is still more then Obama had acheived when he got his Nobel. It`s only fair that Trump gets one too, but he should share it with Kim. Would be weird and probably harmful to only reward one side of a bilateral peace process.
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Jun 14, 2018 12:48
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Rnr posted:Good points. However, the first paragraph would be true if economics was the only thing in play here and if parents always valued maximizing income more than spending time with their child. I'm not sure I agree that Denmark is full of families that cannot bear that the husband's income curve takes a slight break in its projected rise because he decides to spend 5 months on leave, which is what happens. The same happens to the woman, which also accounts for some of the existing pay gap in our societies. in norway, the bourgeois government recently returned to mandatory quotas after relaxing them in the name of freedom of choice because hey it's bogus
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Jun 14, 2018 12:53
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evil_bunnY posted:Can’t loving wait, also in the Netherlands where you literally get 3 days as a dad. I will never understand how you guys' whole culture of social contracts resulted in such crappy parental leave policies. Sweden has no good reason to be so different. Unless SGP was vågmästare at some point, of something...
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Jun 14, 2018 13:06
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Following the travesty of the Tibet case where police officials perjured themselves and half a terabyte of e-mail archives magically appeared after the investigative commission had concluded, whistleblowers are now confirming that the police have been systematically violating constitutional rights to free speech and assembly for decades during official visits from China.
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Jun 14, 2018 13:13
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Rnr posted:Good points. However, the first paragraph would be true if economics was the only thing in play here and if parents always valued maximizing income more than spending time with their child. I'm not sure I agree that Denmark is full of families that cannot bear that the husband's income curve takes a slight break in its projected rise because he decides to spend 5 months on leave, which is what happens. The same happens to the woman, which also accounts for some of the existing pay gap in our societies. Denmark is not that great in terms of having kids (well, from a Swedish perspective which is undoubtedly better). I had to learn a bit of the Danish rules since I was working in Denmark when my first kid was born. The maternal/paternity leave is depending a lot on where you work. By law, you get 6 months of paid maternal leave, but you can take longer, but you also have the option of putting your kid in daycare (or vaggestue) from six months. On the other hand, if you end up working for example NovoNordisk, you get full salary for an entire year on maternity leave, and pretty favorable terms for paternity leave. But I guess most doesn't get this. Another thing here is the number of days you can be home with a sick kid, which are 2 per year and otherwise you need to take unpaid leave/vacation. In other words, this is something that directly affects the one of the parents with lowest salary, usually the female. In Sweden you have basically unlimited days (in the sense that if you reach the maximum number of days, the number of days matters very little, cause you probably have a very sick kid on your hands and in that case other rules apply) with 80% of your salary up to a cutoff value. Rnr posted:I think we agree mostly, I feel the combined right to care for your child, which is very generous across the nordics, is a cool and good thing. I read the above as you saying that you think 4 months mandatory for the dad is too much, and shouldn't be enshrined in law, or it is at least unneeded, since in Sweden dads already take a good amount of leave? I would say that the 4 months mandatory for the dad is either pointless or punishing. Pointless in the sense that either the dad takes 4 months by intent or he puts the paternity leave in during summer/winter vacations when the mother is also home. Or punishing since not all families have the means to let the high-income earner be home, or the dad is contractor/one man company, which basically causes those 4 months not to be used. The above are examples of why I dislike any form of mandatory requirements. The mandatory is something that can be applied to parents having full-time jobs with similar oppurtunities and wages, and it will be limiting to all those that fall outside this. As for closer to equal share, I would say that has more to do with societal norms than anything else. In Sweden you see that couple with academic background have a more equal share, whereas for those with less education the women takes more of the share. So if one wants parents to share the parental leave a change in societal norms is the key. As always, this is a slow process, and politicians in general have too much faith in specific political decisions is the key to change and therefore want to hurry things rather than building up acceptance for a thing. Rnr posted:Crikey, next you will be advocating white genocide you monster! The idea that the man should take over fully after 6 months for equality reasons is plainly absurd to anyone who have had kids (and haven't forgotten how it was). At 6 months, most kids are still breastfeeding and can barely sit up.
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Jun 14, 2018 18:14
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Cardiac posted:I would say that the 4 months mandatory for the dad is either pointless or punishing. This argument can be used to argue against the 5-day work week, the 8 hour work day and all other labor law that regulates how much workers can be exploited. It's a bad argument.
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Jun 14, 2018 18:58
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Potrzebie posted:This argument can be used to argue against the 5-day work week, the 8 hour work day and all other labor law that regulates how much workers can be exploited. It's a bad argument. You know what is even worse than a bad argument? Complaining about argumentation. So instead of doing that, please tell us your solutions to the examples (taken from friends and family) I provided.
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Jun 14, 2018 21:04
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Cardiac posted:You know what is even worse than a bad argument? Are they poor? Then they should be compensated economically to allow for paternal leave. Are they not poor? Then they should reevaluate their priorities and make a budget that accommodates paternal leave.
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Jun 14, 2018 21:28
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Potrzebie posted:Are they poor? Then they should be compensated economically to allow for paternal leave. Are they not poor? Then they should reevaluate their priorities and make a budget that accommodates paternal leave. This is pretty dumb as one implies you incentivize paternal leave by positive discrimination towards men and the second implies that a household often doesn't try to maximize their income. It also totally neglects the health benefits (for both the child and the mother) of extended breastfeeding (+12 months).
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Jun 15, 2018 06:09
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guys paternal leave as a mandatory shared business is uncontroversially good, provided the leave is compensated (which it absolutely needs to be) literally the only argument against it apart from freedom-of-choice dogma is the breastfeeding thing, and last i checked the research on that was seriously sketchy (this is years ago at this point, so it may genuinely have changed)
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Jun 16, 2018 03:11
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even taking the argument for granted, it is entirely practical to combine most forms of full-time work with breastfeeding through pumps and reasonable planning we, as individuals, consistently make choices which are rational on an individual scale in the short term but which are awful in the longer term and for the collective. this is one instance if that, and to rectify this we use laws and regulations
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Jun 16, 2018 03:14
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V. Illych L. posted:literally the only argument against it apart from freedom-of-choice dogma is the breastfeeding thing, and last i checked the research on that was seriously sketchy (this is years ago at this point, so it may genuinely have changed) V. Illych L. posted:even taking the argument for granted, it is entirely practical to combine most forms of full-time work with breastfeeding through pumps and reasonable planning You try pushing through your peener a marble so big you need stitches after the fact and come back to us. Also, pumping is a gigantic pain in the rear end. Mandatory non-birthing parent leave is cool and good but it absolutely doesn’t need to be a dogmatic 50%
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Jun 16, 2018 07:29
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V. Illych L. posted:even taking the argument for granted, it is entirely practical to combine most forms of full-time work with breastfeeding through pumps and reasonable planning. I boldly assume you do not have kids that have been breastfeeding, if you ever do get that you can always come back to this comment and have a chuckle. evil_bunnY posted:You try pushing through your peener a marble so big you need stitches after the fact and come back to us. This here poster knows what's up.
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Jun 16, 2018 08:16
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