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SlothfulCobra posted:The Mongol Empire is big, but it's gonna be locking horns with Japan for a long time, and it's going to be a real latecomer to the world stage without a coastline to go out and meet the world. The Mongol Empire controls Tianjin, which would be a major port thanks to its connection to Beijing and the larger Grand Canal.
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Jun 15, 2018 01:57
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SlothfulCobra posted:The weirdest thing is probably the fact that China's been disunited for so long, it's probably more likely that one of the Chinese states will be open to trade, maybe one of them will westernize and be this timeline's underdog Japan, maybe Japan will be this timeline's China. It's really hard to say. The Mongol Empire is big, but it's gonna be locking horns with Japan for a long time, and it's going to be a real latecomer to the world stage without a coastline to go out and meet the world. I would love to see some events for Guang. Moroccan Hong Kong is probably not happening, but there is so much potential. The Cantonese could have some opportunities to replicate some of their real life commercial success or further establish their own identity since China hasn’t been unified in centuries. E: wait, I didn’t look carefully at the map. There are three different Chinese states sharing control of the Pearl River Delta? Lol. How do the divided Chinese states work anyways? Do they just all have cores on each other? Snipee fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Jun 15, 2018 |
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Jun 15, 2018 03:41
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I for one love communist flags that use text, so I took a shot at making one for Japan. Also some variants if that one looks to sparse.  
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Jun 15, 2018 05:08
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Give the Chinese states cores on each other and let roll the Romance of the Three Kingdoms.
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Jun 15, 2018 05:26
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Dang, missed that little coast on that big country.Patter Song posted:Morocco is decades behind Britain re: India. Britain was the most powerful player on the subcontinent by 1757 and became undisputed master of it by 1818 (and emphasized in 1849, when they brought down the Sikhs, the final powerful native state not under their thumbs). Morocco is somewhere in the 1780s-1790s in comparison with the IRL Brits, with that powerful east Indian state playing the role of the Marathas, the final native power still capable of threatening them. I dunno, I was looking up maps, and I found this 1837 map, which seems kinda comparable in land area. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:India1837to1857.jpg Definitely different parts of India, Britain's colonization was more focused in Bangladesh, whereas Morocco is focused on the tip of the peninsula, but they have a more consolidated hold on it than Britain had, although maybe Britain's ugly borders may represent more power being exerted than direct land ownership would otherwise imply. That's not taking into account relative value of the land and population numbers though, which may change things severely. Incidentally, I was wondering if maybe monarchist Al Andalus should have a symbol of its ruler on the flag, and it turns out that Zulfiqar's name comes from a kickin' rad forked sword used by the fourth caliph...in Shia Islam. So it's a cool symbol, but a Sunni or secular regime might have reservations about using it.
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Jun 15, 2018 05:42
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SlothfulCobra posted:Dang, missed that little coast on that big country. By the 1837 map, all of the native kingdoms indicated excepting Sindh and the "Sikh Kingdom" (Punjab + Kashmir) were puppets or, slightly more charitably, "allies," of the British (and notice that both Sindh and Punjab have been swept away by the 1857 map). The big green chunk in southern India, for example, is Britain's hardcore BFF Hyderabad, which remained Britain's tightest ally straight from the late 18th century to the end of British India. None of the native kingdoms in our current map are vassals of Morocco. Britain dominated the entire subcontinent thoroughly, either directly or indirectly through its princely states. Morocco in this world controls half the subcontinent and has a few decades of war against enemies ruling high population territories who can field 50-100 brigade armies before it can say the same. Morocco's tech advantage will eventually tell, but far less so in the early game. The tech advantage vs a numerically superior unciv doesn't really tell until the third line of military tech opens up in the 1850s: I wouldn't dream of trying to invade China in V2 until 1850-something as a non-Russia or UK country, for example, even though the Western troops are far superior early on, just because China would eventually swamp you.
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Jun 15, 2018 06:32
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i feel like the moroccan position is way more dangerous than the UK's irl. they could end up on the wrong side of a war over slavery, and as has been noted often it seems like they should be really close to losing control over their current indian territories, rather than being in a position to expand in the near future. and then they also have a 1800-1820ish era spain style problem in the new world to deal with on top of that - as well as having been heavily damaged on the home front in the not-napoleonic war in a way the UK never was close to experiencing also if i'm reading the colors right they seem to be taking over indonesia, despite some valiant random colonization by Pali or something. if someone had gotten both india and indonesia in real life they would've been pretty powerful i think morocco just seems like they might not have the resources to commit to all of those fronts, or even most of them. still extremely dangerous, but vulnerable when distracted - and they should still have the capacity to rise from it all as a proper neo-UK if they get lucky or whatever, they're in a better position than most also are north african provinces just way wealthier than in the base game? how about the muslim heartland, it did better in this timeline, right? did they ever get ripped apart by steppe invaders like irl? and are immigrants to the new world gonna be coming from places like baghdad? i'll find out soon enough edit: it'd be cool if you rigged it so south america got a larger proportion of immigrants vis a vis north america than historic. it'd just be fun to see how a different balance would turn out. ibriz will be a vacuum for muslim emigrants but the south american folks should get a larger share than they did in real life, perhaps oystertoadfish fucked around with this message at 07:13 on Jun 15, 2018 |
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Jun 15, 2018 07:05
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oystertoadfish posted:also are north african provinces just way wealthier than in the base game? how about the muslim heartland, it did better in this timeline, right? did they ever get ripped apart by steppe invaders like irl? and are immigrants to the new world gonna be coming from places like baghdad? i'll find out soon enough Places like Tunis and Fes will have a much higher population than OTL, but most of north Africa is still desert and mountain, so it remains sparsely-populated. Iraq will also have its population boosted, since the Mongol invasions never reached them and its been united under the Vali Emirate for centuries now, but there's going to be a ton more Kurds in northern Iraq. Persia has been ruled by the Turkish Khwarezmians for a while now too, so we'll see Turkish culture push more deeply into Iran than in OTL. As for immigration, the only way I could really do that is by giving the south american countries a modifier that increases their immigrant attraction. So we'll see how the game goes, and if it makes sense then sure, I'll give them a couple bonuses. Snipee posted:I would love to see some events for Guang. Moroccan Hong Kong is probably not happening, but there is so much potential. The Cantonese could have some opportunities to replicate some of their real life commercial success or further establish their own identity since China hasn’t been unified in centuries. They don't have cores, so they'll probably spend a lot of time battling for supremacy in south China, before pushing northwards. For example, this is what happened in the most recent observer game:  They were literally surrounded by Japanese spherelings by then, though:  I need to give Japan more claims on Manchuria and northern China, cos the bordergore is just terrible otherwise.
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Jun 15, 2018 08:51
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Hashim posted:Places like Tunis and Fes will have a much higher population than OTL, but most of north Africa is still desert and mountain, so it remains sparsely-populated. Iraq will also have its population boosted, since the Mongol invasions never reached them and its been united under the Vali Emirate for centuries now, but there's going to be a ton more Kurds in northern Iraq. Persia has been ruled by the Turkish Khwarezmians for a while now too, so we'll see Turkish culture push more deeply into Iran than in OTL. Your flag makes me need to know: what is the status of the grand polar empire of jan mayen in this timeline?
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Jun 15, 2018 08:55
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Does Liege have its own national identity like in OTL, or do you think the fact that they didn't have their own empire means they could be subsumed into a German national identity?
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Jun 15, 2018 11:42
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sheep-dodger posted:Does Liege have its own national identity like in OTL, or do you think the fact that they didn't have their own empire means they could be subsumed into a German national identity? They're probably Flemish or Dutch.
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Jun 15, 2018 11:45
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Hashim posted:As for immigration, the only way I could really do that is by giving the south american countries a modifier that increases their immigrant attraction. So we'll see how the game goes, and if it makes sense then sure, I'll give them a couple bonuses. Given the glaring disparity between SA and NA in the prosperity/devastation map of EU4, this might actually be a good idea.
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Jun 15, 2018 13:30
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Maybe make Japan exempt from the AI trigger that makes them always want to go for an unequal treaty? Always annoying when I see an AI Japan start pushing for, like, Bejing or Shaodong in the north and give up a smashing victory to settle for Port Arthur or something
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Jun 15, 2018 13:51
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Dance Officer posted:They're probably Flemish or Dutch. Yeah, but the distinction in our time between German and Dutch is one that was built on the different polities that populations lived in, pre 19th century north German dialects are very close to Dutch and are only standardized into German after unification, so a Netherlands that doesn't have their foundational experience of fighting off the Spanish and building their own empire might well be folded into a German nation if that comes to pass.
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Jun 15, 2018 15:04
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Non LP-News But given we would get soccer events in this game. Morocco just lost their first World Cup match in the 95th minute or so to an own goal. The future looks bright.
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Jun 15, 2018 18:27
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Jack2142 posted:Non LP-News Game may as well have been a battlefield too, players were dropping right and left.
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Jun 15, 2018 18:38
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Jack2142 posted:Non LP-News Perfect 
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Jun 15, 2018 19:30
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Also, I don't think we can lose either way with Spain and Portugal playing each other, since we own both of them. We own all of Portugal, though, and they're up 2-1 at halftime.
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Jun 15, 2018 19:49
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Jack2142 posted:Non LP-News
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Jun 15, 2018 20:14
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habeasdorkus posted:Also, I don't think we can lose either way with Spain and Portugal playing each other, since we own both of them. We own all of Portugal, though, and they're up 2-1 at halftime. 2-3 for Spain as of now. Every goal, in the match so far, was beautiful.
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Jun 15, 2018 20:18
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Hashim posted:They don't have cores, so they'll probably spend a lot of time battling for supremacy in south China, before pushing northwards. For example, this is what happened in the most recent observer game: I agree with giving the revolutionary state more claims.  And do you have any other thoughts on China? Similar to what we are doing for New England, maybe there could be a choice for the dominant southern Chinese power after they unified enough states to choose between cores on the rest of China, a defensive bonus when fighting in home territory, or some commercial/modernization path. I want us to explore some of the consequences of a much more divided China.
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Jun 15, 2018 20:24
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Snipee posted:I agree with giving the revolutionary state more claims. I think I'll let the southern Chinese states battle it out, and if a dominant state emerges to unify most of the south, I'll give them an event granting them cores on the rest of China, and maybe a couple events helping them modernise. Hopefully that way any railroading can be avoided, but there's still the possibility that we get a decent challenger for Japan to contend with by the end of the game.
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Jun 15, 2018 23:21
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I personally just like the idea of a Sunni Mongol empire in China in the 1800s. I hope they stick around for a bit.
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Jun 15, 2018 23:35
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I kinda like the idea of the China fragments remaining separate and developing identities independent of eachother, like post-Roman Europe. It'd really make a more complex political setup out east. Maybe one China fragment modernizes, another falls to foreign conquest, and another undergoes a communist revolution. Or maybe between the threats of Japan, Mongols, and Europeans, they start forming coalitions.
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Jun 16, 2018 00:14
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im on the 86th minute of the morocco game right now and i just got spoiled about the ending lol its ok i'm not really watching very hard edit: um, maybe content: perhaps the south american muslim states have big decisions regarding slavery that align them into blocs, and one of the pluses the emancipationists get is boosted immigration? how well does slavery do in this video game, in general? does it hit a wall economically at some point or do the pops' Consciousness or whatever it's called just keep going up? or does slavery have the potential to last throughout the game? -- wow i kinda feel bad for irlmorocco. do football knowers think #77 or w/e there would've tapped it in if that defender hadn't made a play on it? oystertoadfish fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Jun 16, 2018 |
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Jun 16, 2018 03:37
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oystertoadfish posted:im on the 86th minute of the morocco game right now and i just got spoiled about the ending lol Slaves give a slight bonus to RGO output (the basic non-manufactured goods a province produces, like fruit or coal or cotton) compared to farmers/laborers, and they never gain any money, all money they would earn goes to the provinces' aristocrats instead. Also, because they never gain any money, they don't buy anything, and this is bad, because you want domestic demand for goods your country produces. I think slavery works out to be a slight positive for a completely unindustrialized country but a negative if you're trying to industrialize at all. Pakled fucked around with this message at 04:08 on Jun 16, 2018 |
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Jun 16, 2018 03:54
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oystertoadfish posted:how well does slavery do in this video game, in general? does it hit a wall economically at some point or do the pops' Consciousness or whatever it's called just keep going up? or does slavery have the potential to last throughout the game? Slaves do the same things as the Farmer or Laborer (depending on province) pops do, but do them strictly worse: they're very subpar. Slaves never assimilate or promote out of slavery on their own (duh) and require next-to-no goods to keep them going, which means they don't contribute to demand, which isn't actually great for the global economy. Slaves will end up racking up insane amounts of Consciousness (with the Abolish Slavery decision being their overwhelming priority), which means that slave pops end up becoming like 90% or so Liberal, but they can't vote so...  All pops have Life Needs (what they need to avoid starving), Everyday Needs, and Luxury Needs. They crave all of them, and are happy if they're getting all of them. A Slave pop has no Life needs whatsoever. As for the others? quote:everyday_needs = { Compare that to a Farmer, a poor pop who is going to be the vast majority of your population: quote:life_needs = { You can tell that that meeting those Farmers' desires is going to really fuel the economy. Just for fun, an Aristocrat, a rich pop: quote:life_needs = {
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Jun 16, 2018 04:01
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I love the idea that an aristocrat can't really be happy until he owns 5 different airplanes, ten different cars, and enough opium to knock out an elephant.
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Jun 16, 2018 05:48
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Farmers needing 3 liquor probably explains why building liquor factories early on is usually always a strong investment. It's never not in demand, its price always stays high and its input goods are cheap and plentiful.
Super Jay Mann fucked around with this message at 06:05 on Jun 16, 2018 |
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Jun 16, 2018 06:03
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Yeah, specifically, those values are the goods needed to fulfill that need per day per 200,000 pop of that type. Also, the plurality of the country and consciousness of the pop have a big affect on the numbers.
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Jun 16, 2018 06:09
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Aw man, I missed the voting, not that 1 vote would've saved our rightful leaders (Jizrunids forever!). Anyways, I've been thinking about how a Fascist Armenian flag would look. The basic design is a tricolor (non-monarchist), but with its colors paying tribute to the country's claimed legacy due to fascist traditionalism. 1:  The 3 colors are colors of the previous caliphates. The black standard of the Abbasids, the white standard of the Umayyads, and now the purple banner of the Vahktani. The purple color can also be seen to symbolize the Armenian people as whole, if you prefer. It lacks reference to the gold eagles or 8-pointed star of the monarchy because while they would probably respect their history, they're still distinct from monarchists.2:  Classic star & crescent to emphasize traditionalism and their Islamic population.3:  An alternative take on the above.4:  Since the green looked a little strange, I tried rotating the colors a bit. The bottom is the gold of the EU4-era flag, and the star & crescent is Abbasid-black for aesthetic reasons.If you end up using one of these, I would recommend #1.
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Jun 16, 2018 07:23
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oystertoadfish posted:im on the 86th minute of the morocco game right now and i just got spoiled about the ending lol Hmm, that's an idea. They all start with slavery, but I can give them a decision that boost their immigration if they ever abolish slavery, to help them compete against Ibriz. Maybe it can also give one of them an option to go to war with their neighbour, assuming the latter don't have slavery abolished, and they can conquer them that way.
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Jun 16, 2018 10:51
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Doesn't abolishing slavery increase immigration by itself?
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Jun 16, 2018 11:18
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Hashim posted:I think I'll let the southern Chinese states battle it out, and if a dominant state emerges to unify most of the south, I'll give them an event granting them cores on the rest of China, and maybe a couple events helping them modernise. Hopefully that way any railroading can be avoided, but there's still the possibility that we get a decent challenger for Japan to contend with by the end of the game. On the plus side, if China doesn't unify by HoI4, you could import the existing warlord mechanics from Waking the Tiger and let things resolve themselves that way.
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Jun 16, 2018 12:20
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WW3 will be fought over the football world cup results.
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Jun 16, 2018 13:12
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Dance Officer posted:Doesn't abolishing slavery increase immigration by itself? I'm not 100% sure, but no, I don't think abolishing slavery gives a flat bonus to the immigration to a country. Slave states do have a -25% modifier though, so there will be slightly increased migration levels to the provinces of former slave states once slavery is abolished.
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Jun 16, 2018 16:07
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I would not be surprised if one of the Great Wars becomes known as the Slavery War.
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Jun 16, 2018 19:41
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I'm not sure if abolition of slavery turns into an explosive issue outside of a democracy with rights of man and such, so an absolute monarchy like I think Morocco might be fine. Of course it'll be a very uphill battle if they even try abolishing slavery. The European abolitionism movements could just write off their overseas slave owners, but Morocco's probably got plenty of domestic slaves, as well as being very close to the heart of slavery anyways.
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Jun 16, 2018 20:31
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The comment on how much better farmers are for the economy over slaves just makes me think of that Rick and Morty clip of "its just slavery with extra steps".
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Jun 16, 2018 20:50
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For what it's worth, test games so far have shown that south america can easily get a ton of immigrants, provided things go their way. This is what migrations were looking like for Ibriz and Imjir in 1888, with both at peace:  Migration levels do flop around a lot, to be fair, but Imjir isn't even a great power here (and being a great power boosts your immigrant attraction), so they're definitely a contender to Ibriz on that front.
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Jun 16, 2018 22:44
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