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Rabbi Raccoon posted:Ah, Donphan. I remember him trying to learn a move with a description along the lines of “smashes head so hard it bleeds” and absolutely refusing to teach my cute little elephant that. I hate that I allowed myself to be shocked by this.
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Jun 15, 2018 04:38
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Sordas Volantyr posted:Nintendo only gets litigious when you're literally just working with their IPs without permission. See the eleventy-bajillion Pokemon-esque games that have gotten on assorted Nintendo handhelds over the years (Medabots, Spectrobes, and Fossil Fighters, just to name a few off the top of my head) for proof of that one. More recently/prominently, there was Yo-Kai Watch, which became a national craze to rival the original release of Pokemon in Japan. However, Level-5 and Bandai completely mismanaged the franchise and blew their shot at the big time. First thing, the original game was all-in-one, no separate versions or anything, but the sequel, which was released just one year later, split things up into two, and later three, versions, not realizing that only Nintendo itself can get away with that bullshit and still sell like hotcakes. They also flooded the market with merchandise, anime, spin-off games, and so on, causing total saturation. On top of this, the series was basically DOA in the west, due to lacking the cross-generational appeal it had in Japan*. The third game came out a mere two years after, but was never given an international release, and wound up blown out of the water when Pokemon Sun/Moon dropped less than six months later. There's a fourth game in the works for the Switch, but Level-5 is a lot less gung-ho about making Yo-Kai Watch the cornerstone of an international multimedia empire, and it doesn't look likely that it'll get localized, either. The craze had already been dying down when Pokemon hit, and that just sealed their fate as an also-ran. Still, Yo-Kai Watch did better than any franchise had since Digimon, and some have theorized that Gen VII's quality was in part due to Nintendo feeling the heat from a serious competitor finally showing up. Oh, and just so it's clear, it wasn't just mild mismanagement and Nintendo's impeccable timing that screwed the series, it's just also not as good as Pokemon. I have the first game, since I was interested in seeing how it got so big in the first place. Half the Yo-Kai are palette swaps, there's basically no strategy to combat, and the story is more akin to Medabots or Megaman Battle Network. Not to mention that certain minor mechanics are simply ill-conceived. I didn't hate it, but it was decidedly mediocre. *Because the Yo-Kai are based on Japanese folklore, even older people understood the game's appeal, and it was even seen as a potential gateway to getting kids interested in traditional Japanese culture, which definitely boosted sales (anxiety related to Japan losing its "cultural identity" has been a prominent element of Japan's sociopolitical climate in recent years, Yo-Kai Watch was released at the perfect time to capitalize on those fears, though I don't think it was deliberate beyond the guys at Level-5 wanting to make a Pokemon knock-off using yokai).
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Jun 15, 2018 05:48
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I don't think Nintendo was ever afraid of Yo-Kai Watch being a Pokemon killer, at least not on an international scale. They even published the international releases of the games, and IIRC the Treehouse localized them.
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Jun 15, 2018 05:55
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Commander Keene posted:I don't think Nintendo was ever afraid of Yo-Kai Watch being a Pokemon killer, at least not on an international scale. They even published the international releases of the games, and IIRC the Treehouse localized them. That's not really an indicator one way or the other, it's not like Nintendo is going to deliberately block a game that they feel threatened by (that's a good way to alienate third-party devs, an experience I doubt Nintendo wants to repeat), and Yo-Kai Watch's popularity was greater than anyone anticipated. Besides, they may not have really stood a chance in the long term, but they carved out a niche for themselves in a subgenre that Nintendo has held pretty much uncontested for ages, I doubt that went unnoticed. I'm not saying they were afraid so much as they were just reminded that they're not quite invincible.
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Jun 15, 2018 06:35
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The best thing to come out of Youkai Watch was a Rotom named Youkai Wash.
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Jun 15, 2018 06:45
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I know it's not fair at all because wiki doesnt have worldwide sales numbers for after YW launched in america, but cumulatively all the yokai watch games did ~10.5 million. After Go boosted interest, XY "alone" did 16 million. That's the power of a worldwide appeal & also a crazy popular mobile game for ya. ORAS did 14 million and SM did another 16 million, incidentally. SM probably would have beaten XY had USUM not come under a year later and cut off its legs, and then the switch after that.
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Jun 15, 2018 06:47
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EclecticTastes posted:That's not really an indicator one way or the other, it's not like Nintendo is going to deliberately block a game that they feel threatened by (that's a good way to alienate third-party devs, an experience I doubt Nintendo wants to repeat), and Yo-Kai Watch's popularity was greater than anyone anticipated. Besides, they may not have really stood a chance in the long term, but they carved out a niche for themselves in a subgenre that Nintendo has held pretty much uncontested for ages, I doubt that went unnoticed. I'm not saying they were afraid so much as they were just reminded that they're not quite invincible.
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Jun 15, 2018 07:13
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Digimon does seem to have had a resurgence in the West if Cyber Sleuth and Next Order are any indication, so it's not like Nintendo is completely devoid of serious competition on the genre's front.
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Jun 15, 2018 08:37
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A little more in depth look into it Temtem's developers have actually done a game I have seen played, namely Immortal Redneck, which is a Rogue-Like first person shooter. It was... okay, but at least it's proof they can make "A Game"
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Jun 15, 2018 09:23
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Sordas Volantyr posted:Yes! Finally, a fan team that understands that Pokemon just works better competitively as a 2v2 forma- Zanzibar Ham posted:I'm pretty sure they mean there'll be an option for 1vs1 combat against other players (with the default being 2vs2 even against players), but I'm asking them in the comments to confirm. I'm one of those crazy people who think that 1v1 competitive Pokemon has been a stagnant mess since gen 4 and that places like Smogon have, at best, placed a bandaid over a gaping wound and that 2v2 has completely supplanted it as the ideal Pokemon battle format so this game sounds right up my alley.
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Jun 15, 2018 09:35
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Commander Keene posted:There's a difference between deliberately blocking a game and actually helping in the localization and publishing for everywhere except Japan. The difference being that Nintendo gets even more money. They weren't doing that stuff out of the kindness of their hearts, when someone localizes and publishes a product for a different company, they get paid for the trouble.
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Jun 15, 2018 09:55
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Onmi posted:A little more in depth look into it Temtem's developers have actually done a game I have seen played, namely Immortal Redneck, which is a Rogue-Like first person shooter. It was... okay, but at least it's proof they can make "A Game"
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Jun 15, 2018 10:25
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EclecticTastes posted:The difference being that Nintendo gets even more money. They weren't doing that stuff out of the kindness of their hearts, when someone localizes and publishes a product for a different company, they get paid for the trouble.
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Jun 15, 2018 10:55
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I mean, I'm backing the game but I don't think it's gonna be some pokemon killer.
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Jun 15, 2018 11:25
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Commander Keene posted:I never said that they did it for free. My point is that while Nintendo obviously saw potential in Yo-Kai Watch, they wouldn't have sunk money into localization and marketing it if they thought that it had a chance of overtaking their own property. That would be kind of like betting against yourself. While Nintendo got paid for localizing and marketing Yo-Kai Watch, they get all the money from Pokemon, and wouldn't directly help a property that they thought had a chance of noticeably affecting that money. Yo-Kai Watch did noticeably affect Nintendo's money. Pokemon merch sales, live shows, etc., all took a header during the craze. For a brief moment, Pokemon was yesterday's news in Japan. And, granted, the biggest push only lasted through 2014, but it wasn't until Pokemon Go launched that Pokemon finally put down the upstart decisively. Like, I'm not saying Nintendo sensed danger, more that they wanted to make sure nobody ever took anything like Yo-Kai Watch seriously ever again.
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Jun 15, 2018 11:48
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So, basically, every single fight in DBZ where someone says that you've earned their respect for getting a hit in. And then they level them. What I'm saying is that Vegeta is the best Yo-Kai.
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Jun 15, 2018 11:55
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rannum posted:I do not understand any of this game's attempts at balance. Keep in mind that OFS has access to cheap Rare Candies that he put in there himself, and that the normal ones are 20k. And the Common Candies are an intended mechanic to make you manipulate levels. And that right now, money is potentially finite unless you rely on pickup shenanigans. Even at its "best", the game is actively hostile and expecting you to grind until you're 80 years old.
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Jun 15, 2018 13:11
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KataraniSword posted:Even at its "best", the game is actively hostile and expecting you to grind until you're 80 years old. Just like real life! It's GRITTY REALISM and CLEVER SYMBOLISM and you whiny noobs just DON'T UNDERSTAND the GENIUS. I would not be surprised if that was the actual reasoning. Slightly nauseated, but not surprised.
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Jun 15, 2018 13:38
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EclecticTastes posted:Yo-Kai Watch did noticeably affect Nintendo's money. Pokemon merch sales, live shows, etc., all took a header during the craze. For a brief moment, Pokemon was yesterday's news in Japan. And, granted, the biggest push only lasted through 2014, but it wasn't until Pokemon Go launched that Pokemon finally put down the upstart decisively. Like, I'm not saying Nintendo sensed danger, more that they wanted to make sure nobody ever took anything like Yo-Kai Watch seriously ever again. I tried the demo of the one game, and it really felt like it's a "For Kids" game in terms of story, art and mechanics, as opposed to an "All Ages" game like Pokemon - where the primary audience is kids, but has enough bite for older players to not get bored. Honestly, Yo-Kai Watch's craze I feel was ultimately a Good thing for Pokemon, it's been years and years since they had a serious contender in the genre and having Yo-Kai Watch come up like it did was a kick in the rear end to to remind them not to get too complacent.
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Jun 15, 2018 16:16
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Materant posted:Digimon does seem to have had a resurgence in the West if Cyber Sleuth and Next Order are any indication, so it's not like Nintendo is completely devoid of serious competition on the genre's front. Yeah, but Digimon is aiming for the Persona market (and Next Order is it's own thing) so I wouldn't say they're directly competing, so to speak
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Jun 15, 2018 16:39
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Waterfall of Salt posted:Yeah, but Digimon is aiming for the Persona market (and Next Order is it's own thing) so I wouldn't say they're directly competing, so to speak Digimon has also experienced a renaissance period over the last couple of years with the Digimon Tri anime/movies, which was specifically geared at the people who watched the show as kids and teens and are now in their 20s and 30s. To the point where it's generating interest in and buzz for them making a sequel series to Digimon Tamers next. Pokemon, conversely, seems to have either stagnated or is actively regressing every time I see it. It's idea of pandering to its aging millennial audience was to remake the 20 year old pilot of the TV show as if to put the pin in how Ash has been a 10 year-old for 20 years, while the Digimon kids have grown up and are heading off to college in Tri.
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Jun 15, 2018 17:45
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nine-gear crow posted:To the point where it's generating interest in and buzz for them making a sequel series to Digimon Tamers next. This...could be really good or really bad. But I'm cautiously excited.
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Jun 15, 2018 18:00
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nine-gear crow posted:Digimon has also experienced a renaissance period over the last couple of years with the Digimon Tri anime/movies, which was specifically geared at the people who watched the show as kids and teens and are now in their 20s and 30s. To the point where it's generating interest in and buzz for them making a sequel series to Digimon Tamers next. I would say Digimon is only partly aiming older, and to mixed results. Tri, and video games Cyber Sleuth and to a certain extent Next Order are definitely aiming at an older demographic, that's for sure. Tri wants to be a sober and mature story, Cyber Sleuth actually is a mature story though it's anything but sober, and Next Order is neither but is to a certain extent built on nostalgia for people who muddled through the original Digimon world. Also, Alongside Tri and those games digimon put out DIgimon Universe Appli Monsters which was the best season of the Digimon anime in literally a decade and had absolutely no bones about being a post-Yokai Watch soft-reboot aimed at kids and it was also way better than Tri. Digimon Adventure Tri had some really serious problems, and I hesitate to call it a real renaissance for Digimon when it's barely kept afloat writing-wise by leaning on nostalgia. Also meanwhile the last couple of seasons of the pokemon anime have actually been stepping up in their game and been surprisingly good. As for the Digimon Tamers sequel there's basically no real chance of that happening by all accounts. As it stands Digimon Tamers 2018 exists such as it does as an audio drama on the recent Digimon Tamers Bluray release and as concept by the director, but he's said in no uncertain terms that it almost definitely isn't happening as a real anime. Tamers 2018 is really wild and I'd totally watch it, but I'm probably not going to. The next animated Digimon project is currently unknown, but smart money seems to be on a follow-up to Tri what with that one ending on an obvious cliffhanger. Digimon diverged pretty early and pretty heavily from Pokemon in the early days, and it's actually doing pretty well nowadays (Tri for all its faults pulled in a lot of money), but it's not quite an unblemished streak of quality sadly. In some respects I think Pokemon has done pretty well by sticking to its guns and slowly trickling in more serious content under the radar.
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Jun 15, 2018 18:12
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Some Numbers posted:This...could be really good or really bad. The only way I won't be apprehensive about a Tamers sequel is if Chiaki Konaka is involved.
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Jun 15, 2018 18:45
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Thanks for this, I'm going to look into Digimon Universe Appli Monsters and Tamers 2018. I should also actually finish Tri at some point, I think I only watched the first two or three parts. Super Jay Mann posted:The only way I won't be apprehensive about a Tamers sequel is if Chiaki Konaka is involved.
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Jun 15, 2018 19:51
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Some Numbers posted:Thanks for this, I'm going to look into Digimon Universe Appli Monsters and Tamers 2018. Here's the real issue with Tri. At some point past Episode 3 they got told "We're being renewed for Digimon Quattro" which hasn't been announced but it's also totally been announced. And like most things that start telling a self-contained story and then get told "And by the way we're getting a new series" it's story telling tripped over its own legs, cracked its head open and stumbled through the finish line with a concussion.
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Jun 15, 2018 20:03
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Robindaybird posted:I tried the demo of the one game, and it really felt like it's a "For Kids" game in terms of story, art and mechanics, as opposed to an "All Ages" game like Pokemon - where the primary audience is kids, but has enough bite for older players to not get bored. This is it exactly, though, as I mentioned, while the games were mostly big with younger players, the franchise in general appealed to older people because of its roots in traditional Japanese mythology, particularly due to nationwide concerns that Japanese youth aren't interested enough in Japanese culture these days. Of course, it didn't actually get kids more interested in learning about all that stuff in any broad sense, so that also probably contributed to its decline through 2015. There were a lot of factors, which explains why the drop was so precipitous. Robindaybird posted:Honestly, Yo-Kai Watch's craze I feel was ultimately a Good thing for Pokemon, it's been years and years since they had a serious contender in the genre and having Yo-Kai Watch come up like it did was a kick in the rear end to to remind them not to get too complacent. And yeah, this was the point I was making, I think the Pokemon devs were motivated to really give 110%.
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Jun 15, 2018 20:17
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Radio Free Kobold posted:The best thing to come out of Youkai Watch was a Rotom named Youkai Wash. uh, did you not check the header image before linking this, p sure this leans towards nsfw
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Jun 15, 2018 20:52
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Super Jay Mann posted:The only way I won't be apprehensive about a Tamers sequel is if Chiaki Konaka is involved. He is, or perhaps it should be said he was. Digimon Tamers 2018 was written and directed by him as the sequel he would make to Digimon Tamers. The audio drama was his pitch, and it's also his word that it probably isn't going to happen. Onmi posted:Here's the real issue with Tri. At some point past Episode 3 they got told "We're being renewed for Digimon Quattro" which hasn't been announced but it's also totally been announced. And like most things that start telling a self-contained story and then get told "And by the way we're getting a new series" it's story telling tripped over its own legs, cracked its head open and stumbled through the finish line with a concussion. As far as I know this has never been confirmed, but it makes a disgusting amount of sense and provides depressing clarity for why the back half of Tri is such a mess.
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Jun 15, 2018 20:54
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mandatory lesbian posted:uh, did you not check the header image before linking this, p sure this leans towards nsfw checking the site myself, looks like the header changes whenever the page is reloaded edit: 
Digamma-F-Wau fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Jun 15, 2018 |
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Jun 15, 2018 21:22
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Omnicrom posted:As far as I know this has never been confirmed, but it makes a disgusting amount of sense and provides depressing clarity for why the back half of Tri is such a mess. Should...should I not bother watching it then?
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Jun 15, 2018 21:23
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Some Numbers posted:Should...should I not bother watching it then?
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Jun 15, 2018 21:39
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Onmi posted:it's story telling tripped over its own legs, cracked its head open and stumbled through the finish line with a concussion. Nice segue to bring it all back to Reborn.
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Jun 15, 2018 21:47
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That's assuming Reborn ever reaches the finish line.
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Jun 15, 2018 22:32
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Some Numbers posted:Should...should I not bother watching it then? I'd say no but It's up to you. Just know whatever ending you're imagining for Tri right now is much better than what you'll get. I know that people will argue which if any of the back movies were good/better/the best, but personally I don't like any of them. I was kind of down on Tri from minute one, but I'll readily admit the early movies were actually pretty good and that it started strong. This is one of the reasons why people suggest the back half had a hasty rewrite because Tri did not end strongly and whatever merits it had in terms of plotting and characterization fell apart. And Pmush has a good point, it's probably less disappointing to be able to watch them all in a sweep rather than be kept waiting for the next letdown.
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Jun 15, 2018 22:57
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Onmi posted:it's story telling tripped over its own legs, cracked its head open and stumbled through the finish line with a concussion. Combine that with SBAHJ stairs so the tripping is as prolonged as possible, and that's Reborn.
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Jun 15, 2018 23:04
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Combine that with SBAHJ stairs so the tripping is as prolonged as possible, and that's Reborn. I WARNED YOU ABOUT USING COMPETITIVE TERMS IN IN-UNIVERSE BOOKS BRO!!! I TOLD YOU DOG!
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Jun 15, 2018 23:36
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Sordas Volantyr posted:I WARNED YOU ABOUT USING COMPETITIVE TERMS IN IN-UNIVERSE BOOKS BRO!!! It's so weird, the game is all about limiting the player's abilities compared to the opponents and field effects as preset conditions that shift the power dynamic, when competitive play is precisely not those.
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Jun 16, 2018 01:32
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It's because they're a bunch of  who get all of their competitive information off of Smogon without bothering to understand how it works or why, and handicapping the player is much easier than actually making the game legitimately difficult.
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Jun 16, 2018 05:31
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KataraniSword posted:Even at its "best", the game is actively hostile and expecting you to grind until you're 80 years old. Do you think that the super-grindiness of this and Uranium was deliberate, unintended, or something in between?
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Jun 16, 2018 15:24
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