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The Before Times posted:I feel like there's an element of really, really not wanting to blame society and men for violence like this. But y'all, women can do everything they possibly can to stay safe, and they can still get raped and murdered. The 'personal responsibility' line is so sickening because we've heard it so many times before; we keep on trying to be as safe as possible, but this poo poo still happens and it feels like everyone's kinda avoiding the real issue.
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Jun 15, 2018 09:23
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CrazyTolradi posted:Also, countries who do have an armed force still do have poo poo done to them by other countries, regardless. No, it's that countries are prepared to defend themselves because they know threats exist and using social means won't eliminate them completely. I dont think victims need to do better. I do think that convincing people to ignore the procedures that they have individually decided to follow to ensure their own safety could be bad. Especially when its framed as a noble political act. Edit: you guys are projecting so hard. Nobody is victim blaming or ignoring the role of society here gucci bane fucked around with this message at 09:30 on Jun 15, 2018 |
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Jun 15, 2018 09:27
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nobody is saying not to take precautions to be safe, though. we're saying it's already so obvious, and people already do that, and it's just annoying and insulting when public figures suggest it as though we haven't thought of that already.
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Jun 15, 2018 09:30
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The Before Times posted:nobody is saying not to take precautions to be safe, though. we're saying it's already so obvious, and people already do that, and it's just annoying and insulting when
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Jun 15, 2018 09:33
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I think the point we're trying to make is that we're not saying no one should take precautions, but rather that no one should HAVE to take precautions. And even though we do take those precautions, they still don't always work.
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Jun 15, 2018 09:35
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it's sort-of like what happens after a gun massacre in the US. there's all this talk about 'we should give the guns to the good guys' or whatever other genius idea, when really nobody wants to take action on the actual guns or cultural issues that are the problem.
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Jun 15, 2018 09:36
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I don't know of a woman alive who isn't keenly aware that she might get raped if she does the "wrong thing". That ABC article mentioned a concept "the right amount of panic" that I'm sorry I can't remember if it's been pointed out here. There's this laundry list of personal precautions we're advised to take such that it's impossible to fulfill all the criteria, and the emotional labour of being so proactive is not insignificant either, so we're always on the wrong side of the right amount of panic.
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Jun 15, 2018 09:40
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gucci bane posted:Edit: you guys are projecting so hard. Nobody is victim blaming or ignoring the role of society here Yeah they are, man, there are a big amount of posts about how people don't pay enough attention to the safety tips to not be raped and killed that they've been raised on and internalised and been terrified by and followed, and failed into becoming a victim
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Jun 15, 2018 09:45
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The Before Times posted:nobody is saying not to take precautions to be safe, though. we're saying it's already so obvious, and people already do that, and it's just annoying and insulting when public figures suggest it as though we haven't thought of that already. Ok well that is what the article I was quoting before said, if you're not going to read the thread dont reply to it
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Jun 15, 2018 09:47
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G-Spot Run posted:I don't know of a woman alive who isn't keenly aware that she might get raped if she does the "wrong thing". That ABC article mentioned a concept "the right amount of panic" that I'm sorry I can't remember if it's been pointed out here. There's this laundry list of personal precautions we're advised to take such that it's impossible to fulfill all the criteria, and the emotional labour of being so proactive is not insignificant either, so we're always on the wrong side of the right amount of panic. fuckin exactly. not only do we protect ourselves but we protect each other, too. we go to the bathroom together; we make our friends text us when they get home after a night out; we try to make sure nobody gets into a cab or an uber alone; we watch each other's drinks. heck, I've heard stories of women pretending to know each other in public when one of them is being harrassed by a stranger. I don't think men really get the amount of work we put into trying to keep ourselves and our friends safe.
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Jun 15, 2018 09:48
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The Peccadillo posted:Yeah they are, man, there are a big amount of posts about how people don't pay enough attention to the safety tips to not be raped and killed that they've been raised on and internalised and been terrified by and followed, and failed into becoming a victim Quote them
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Jun 15, 2018 09:50
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gucci bane posted:Ok well that is what the article I was quoting before said, if you're not going to read the thread dont reply to it Where in the article is it saying not to take precautions to be safe? unless you're referring to the line at the end where the author decided to walk through a park on the way home. That's her making a personal decision, not telling people not to be careful.
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Jun 15, 2018 09:52
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The Before Times posted:Where in the article is it saying not to take precautions to be safe? unless you're referring to the line at the end where the author decided to walk through a park on the way home. That's her making a personal decision, not telling people not to be careful. She did not explicitly say others should follow her, and neither did I claim that. She did frame her decision as a feminist political action, which is what is what I actually said was potentially a bad road to go down. It's a typical opinion editorial, it aims to convince others to the authors point of view.
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Jun 15, 2018 09:56
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gucci bane posted:Quote them gucci bane posted:if you're not going to read the thread dont reply to it
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Jun 15, 2018 09:57
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Lol, nice I know you are but what am I reply
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Jun 15, 2018 10:00
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gucci bane posted:It's a typical opinion editorial, it aims to convince others to the authors point of view. That's ... not a nefarious trick dude, that's literally all publically written words
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Jun 15, 2018 10:02
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gucci bane posted:She did not explicitly say others should follow her, and neither did I claim that. She did frame her decision as a feminist political action, which is what is what I actually said was potentially a bad road to go down. It's a typical opinion editorial, it aims to convince others to the authors point of view.
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Jun 15, 2018 10:08
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gucci bane posted:She did not explicitly say others should follow her, and neither did I claim that. She did frame her decision as a feminist political action, which is what is what I actually said was potentially a bad road to go down. It's a typical opinion editorial, it aims to convince others to the authors point of view. If you actually read and look at the structure of the article though, you'd see that she builds up her argument around a) it's not necessary to tell women to take precautions because they already do and b) it's hard to find evidence to suggest that doing all of those things actually does prevent sexual violence. It's obvious that the bit about her walking home is a frame to the article and isn't meant to persuade people to walk through dark parks alone at night, but instead to introduce and round out the topic she was talking about with a bit of a personal anecdote. It's a bit of flavour, not an argument.
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Jun 15, 2018 10:12
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Hahahahahahaha These fuckin feminist editorials, editorialising feminism. What's their end game??
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Jun 15, 2018 10:12
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G-Spot Run posted:Hahahahahahaha fuckin, using writing techniques to make a point about something
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Jun 15, 2018 10:17
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In simple terms, what advice would you give to a person on not getting murdered? Are there a few quick pointers you're aware of off the top of your head? You know, the kind of things that are usually mentioned every time someone gets murdered - just in the interests of ensuring the community is taking the appropriate precautions, you understand.
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Jun 15, 2018 10:26
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Well, you see, my advice to anyone who's about to be murdered is that they shouldn't get murdered. Hope this helps.
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Jun 15, 2018 10:27
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CrazyTolradi posted:Well, you see, my advice to anyone who's about to be murdered is that they shouldn't get murdered. Hope this helps. gently caress, why didn't I think of that?!
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Jun 15, 2018 10:37
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EoinCannon posted:Did Jill Meagher's death change anything? I don't know the exact specifics but there has been, because of Bayley and also a lot of other things like Bourke Street. But "parole reform" basically means "making it harder for people to get paroled" which is, broadly speaking, a bad thing for society. Bayley was an outlier and parole is a good thing. The last thing you want to do is make it harder for offenders to get parole, because they then a) don't participate in the reformatory programs that are a prerequisite for parole, and b) sometimes serve out their entire sentences and then get dumped on the street with no further oversight, no further help from the criminal justice system into re-integrating into society, and full access to drugs and alcohol. edit - this is a relevant read/watch from 7.30 http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/victorian-prisoners-maxing-out-jail-sentences/7832664 Excerpt: quote:JOSIE TAYLOR: New figures from the Adult parole board show maxing out by Victorian criminals is rising fast. In 2012 to 13 160 prisoners who were eligible for parole either knocked it back or were denied. By 2015 that number had more than tripled. freebooter fucked around with this message at 11:22 on Jun 15, 2018 |
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Jun 15, 2018 11:18
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CrazyTolradi posted:Well, you see, my advice to anyone who's about to be murdered is that they shouldn't get murdered. Hope this helps. I think Australians have had enough of so called experts providing so called expert advice such as this.
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Jun 15, 2018 11:22
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CrazyTolradi posted:You are a wanker. no u are The Before Times posted:If you actually read and look at the structure of the article though, you'd see that she builds up her argument around a) it's not necessary to tell women to take precautions because they already do and b) it's hard to find evidence to suggest that doing all of those things actually does prevent sexual violence. I agree with all that stuff you think it was communicating. I don't agree with you thinking that is the obvious takeaway from the ending. She said essentially: I don't know if doing this thing matters. Then said: I didn't do the thing and it was politically good that I didn't do it. This is just semantic bullshit. gucci bane fucked around with this message at 11:35 on Jun 15, 2018 |
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Jun 15, 2018 11:26
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Drink some water and go to bed
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Jun 15, 2018 11:40
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Oftentimes murder can be harder on the woman than the man
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Jun 15, 2018 11:42
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G-Spot Run posted:In simple terms, what advice would you give to a person on not getting murdered? Are there a few quick pointers you're aware of off the top of your head? You know, the kind of things that are usually mentioned every time someone gets murdered - just in the interests of ensuring the community is taking the appropriate precautions, you understand. Look basically be an upper-middle class straight white dude undertaking postgraduate education. It works for me and it’s safe for me walk around whenever, so just do that
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Jun 15, 2018 12:11
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gucci bane posted:This is just semantic bullshit. 
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Jun 15, 2018 13:27
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CrazyTolradi posted:BB and Fruity did nothing wrong.
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Jun 15, 2018 14:15
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The Before Times posted:it's sort-of like what happens after a gun massacre in the US. there's all this talk about 'we should give the guns to the good guys' or whatever other genius idea, when really nobody wants to take action on the actual guns or cultural issues that are the problem. In a gun massacre, you can blame everything except guns. In a rape, you can blame everything except men.
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Jun 15, 2018 14:19
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hello.jpg
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Jun 15, 2018 14:42
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This is all JBPs fault.
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Jun 15, 2018 14:59
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Jun 15, 2018 15:03
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Maybe the healing needs to start with this thread.
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Jun 15, 2018 23:38
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good 2 see Larissa Waters coming back I have seen Andrew Bartlett around uni sometimes though, he has cool earrings
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Jun 16, 2018 00:32
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Recoome posted:good 2 see Larissa Waters coming back I think their headline is inaccurate - surely Barnaby was the first to return, and Scott Ludlum the first casualty?
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Jun 16, 2018 00:41
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Resident Idiot posted:I think their headline is inaccurate - surely Barnaby was the first to return, and Scott Ludlum the first casualty? we need a new emoticon of the abc logo spinning away like the lost one, or a "that's the ABC" like the X-COM one
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Jun 16, 2018 01:54
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Jun 16, 2018 02:09
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