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Riatsala posted:I strongly agree with this. All the FO games have a problem with late game difficulty because at some point you have completely broken weapons and near limitless ammo or broken perks. I tend to resort to self-imposed limitations, like going into all the NV DLC completely naked. I actually think this limitation is what made me enjoy Dead Money more than any of the others when I first played them. Games have a finite scaling. It doesn't make much sense from a developer.perspective to build a ton of content for a single player game scaled around 'what if they have every legendary item and zero resource limits' because that is a tiny edge case.
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Jun 17, 2018 16:46
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That awkward moment when you do Vault 87 before Tranquility Lane and now Liam Neeson is alive and well in Rivet City... I love breaking Fallout 3 Also, does anyone really ever side with the slaves in The Pitt, or do you side with Ashur and just breeze through the rest of the DLC? I only wish I could make Midea and Wernher get the rest of the steel ingots for me And it's a drat shame Marie is never brought up in NV or 4 - you'd think a baby that could potentially cure radiation and disease would be something you could tell the BoS Granted, with the direction the BoS took in 4...maybe it's for the best that the Lone Wanderer kept quiet about it
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Jun 17, 2018 16:55
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Vinylshadow posted:And it's a drat shame Marie is never brought up in NV or 4 - you'd think a baby that could potentially cure radiation and disease would be something you could tell the BoS The baby-eating mod is canon.
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Jun 17, 2018 17:52
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I love survival mode, though admittedly I've never even attempted to do the Nuka World settlement stuff with it on. Maybe if you start the DLC straight away and do it concurrent with a bunch of Commonwealth quests?  The saving at beds thing isn't nearly as big a deal as no fast travel, though. There really are beds almost everywhere when you start looking for them, and one added benefit is the double XP from killing enemies. My favorite survival build is Party Girl/Idiot Savant, even with good INT you get so many penalties from being liquored up and mildly dehydrated that you level rapidly (I once gained two levels from a Savant trigger on a high-level ghoul) and the CHA boost helps you pass speech checks easily even without the benefit of savescumming. You basically stumble through the game as an autistic drunk, charming NPCs and hunting enemies like they're XP pinatas. Vinylshadow posted:That awkward moment when you do Vault 87 before Tranquility Lane and now Liam Neeson is alive and well in Rivet City... I think she was only immune to whatever Pitt disease was turning people into monsters, not all diseases. Also, I just realized how weird it was that F4 recycled the Marie Curie reference with another 'moral choice related to disease.'
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Jun 17, 2018 17:54
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Keeshhound posted:The baby-eating mod is canon. I had that on my first time around and totally forgot until I got to that point and was super ready to just stop all fallout. Then I remembered what I had installed and then yeah...I used the mod. To be fair I went back to my save in order to end it a different way. I swear I am not a baby eater.
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Jun 17, 2018 17:59
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Keeshhound posted:The baby-eating mod is canon. And so is Mothership Zeta After obliterating the mistake north of the Capitol Wasteland, the Lone Wanderer fled deep into the reaches of space Hundreds of years later, they returned and were turned away by fierce sonic attacks from the Big MT, thanks to an old jukebox
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Jun 17, 2018 17:59
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I never played The Pit or Mothership Zeta because I didn't have my 360 hooked up to XBOX Live at the time. You could buy Broken Steel and Point Lookout on disc but not the other two for whatever reason. I haven't played FO3 in almost 10 years so maybe it's time to install my Steam copy and see how it holds up.
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Jun 17, 2018 19:36
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Vinylshadow posted:Also, does anyone really ever side with the slaves in The Pitt, or do you side with Ashur and just breeze through the rest of the DLC? I have started to side with Ashur because Wernher makes me kill a bunch of perfectly good merchants and fill half the map with monsters when it really isn't necessary to do that. Always get all the ingots, that map is actually the best part of the DLC.
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Jun 17, 2018 19:42
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StandardVC10 posted:I have started to side with Ashur because Wernher makes me kill a bunch of perfectly good merchants and fill half the map with monsters when it really isn't necessary to do that. One of my fonder moments of the DLC was after talking Wernher down, you go out and walk over a series of catwalks before reaching the roof of a building Running along it, you get maybe 1/3rd down it and then plummet straight through it because someone forgot to put a collision mesh on it
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Jun 17, 2018 20:23
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:I know this is probably a whole can of worms, but I was thinking about Honest Hearts today and I suddenly realized that it's kind of lovely how you never actually get to ask The Sorrows what THEY want to do. They don't get to have an input on whether they're going to fight or flee, instead you just pick between the plans of two white men (what a burden). Fun fact, Daniel was originally intended to be Asian to try and lessen the appearance of this a bit. He became white somewhere along the line  https://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/153313830271/i-keep-seeing-this-criticism-on-tumblr-that One funny thing is that if you choose to fight you can have a go at Daniel for making the Sorrows' decisions for them, which seems to ignore that Joshua is doing the same thing. I suppose you could handwave it away by saying this is an unprecedented situation for the Sorrows, who have only ever lived fairly peacefully in the valley and have no context for how they should react to being invaded
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Jun 17, 2018 21:31
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2house2fly posted:unprecedented situation for the Sorrows, who have only ever lived fairly peacefully in the valley and have no context for how they should react to being invaded people say the same thing about native peoples in the americas
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Jun 17, 2018 21:52
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Joshua at least recognizes what he's doing if you ask him about it (it's part of why he sends Follows Chalk with you; he wants him to have experiences with other outsiders.)
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Jun 17, 2018 22:01
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:I know this is probably a whole can of worms, but I was thinking about Honest Hearts today and I suddenly realized that it's kind of lovely how you never actually get to ask The Sorrows what THEY want to do. They don't get to have an input on whether they're going to fight or flee, instead you just pick between the plans of two white men (what a burden). It's not just Honest Hearts. How often does the Courier make life-changing decisions for a community instead of letting them arrive at a consensus? You're the poster child of paternalism.
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Jun 17, 2018 22:06
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Samuel Clemens posted:It's not just Honest Hearts. How often does the Courier make life-changing decisions for a community instead of letting them arrive at a consensus? You're the poster child of paternalism. To be fair The Courier is a Messiah figure and that does make sense. Every Fallout savior has arrived in times of strife when their environment was on the edge of something great. The Courier arrives right when the Mojave is about to be the deciding venue for who controls Western America. Their arrival is important because they have no preconceived ideas about who should have what and so they make the land in their image. As with the Vault Dwellers, the Chosen One, and the Wasteland Wanderer the choices for self determination come after this Messiah makes the hard choices that the people did not or could not make themselves. It's strong man politics and social engineering at it's softest unless you commit genocide or something.
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Jun 17, 2018 22:20
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having a disinterested third party whose primary impartiality comes from ignorance and indifference making your major decisions is like, super bad, especially if that third party is more or less showing up and telling people how things are going to be. if anything, i'd say having the vault dweller or it's analog show up from their high horse, largely insulated from the realities of their actions or from having a vested interest in actually helping people, and making the world in their image is like, the most hosed up part of the whole thing. if you were giving the writers any credit it could even be commentary on American exceptionalism.
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Jun 17, 2018 23:56
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Crabtree posted:The Enclave is a shadowy piece of the government that is the only surviving piece of said governing body and willy nilly calling their leader the President. Of course they're gonna view everything else as subhuman and in need of eradication. my guess is they will bring in the enclave or something like it in fallout 76 at somepoint. Casimir Radon posted:I never played The Pit or Mothership Zeta because I didn't have my 360 hooked up to XBOX Live at the time. You could buy Broken Steel and Point Lookout on disc but not the other two for whatever reason. I haven't played FO3 in almost 10 years so maybe it's time to install my Steam copy and see how it holds up. The pitt is,, interesting. it has some interesting ideas but it doesnt do much with them.
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Jun 18, 2018 00:00
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Jun 18, 2018 00:02
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Todd Howard has completely destroyed the Fallout Universe mythos
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Jun 18, 2018 00:33
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cant wait to play as swagdaddy69 in the new fallout also since there are no npcs we will have to run our own radio stations, cant wait to broadcast racial slurs across the wasteland
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Jun 18, 2018 00:40
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Does anyone actually call the F4 guy the sole survivor, though? They just call them 'vault dweller.'A 50S RAYGUN posted:having a disinterested third party whose primary impartiality comes from ignorance and indifference making your major decisions is like, super bad, especially if that third party is more or less showing up and telling people how things are going to be. Ehhhh this is pretty much a description of 99% of RPGs made. There's even a bit in the first Mass Effect where you literally stop an arguing pair of strangers in the street to butt in with your opinion on whether the girl's baby should get surgery for some medical condition.
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Jun 18, 2018 00:44
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Wolfsheim posted:Ehhhh this is pretty much a description of 99% of RPGs made. There's even a bit in the first Mass Effect where you literally stop an arguing pair of strangers in the street to butt in with your opinion on whether the girl's baby should get surgery for some medical condition. There's a follow up to this in 2 where the arguing pair just stare at you like you're a weirdo then one of them asks the other if they knew you as you walk away. Then in the third one you find the same couple from the first game (I think?) and you just tell them to shut the hell up and stop arguing - it's the end of the loving world, just make up your mind!
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Jun 18, 2018 00:50
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Vinylshadow posted:That awkward moment when you do Vault 87 before Tranquility Lane and now Liam Neeson is alive and well in Rivet City... Honestly, The Pitt comes darn close to being a very good dlc, what with having to choose between Warner, who is just using you and the slaves for petty revenge, and Ashur, who is far too obsessed with The Pitt having a working steel mill and has created an untenable situation in trying to stay there. Its just the ending where it really stumbles. If you side with Warner, Midea pretty much says that no one is getting food brought in and Warner is pretty much is just loafing around getting drunk and not actually doing anything, yet nothing really gets done with that and there are no gameplay effects. And if you side with Ashur, you sadly can't call Warner and/or Midea out for not having any science or medical knowledge or having any real plan post uprising, all you can say is variations of "Oh no, I can't kidnap a baby." Darn shame too, as most of everything else is pretty solid. The Pitt had an oppressive environment far different from anything else in the game, a cool vertical layout, actual characterization for Raiders for once, and some great rewards if you put the effort into finding all the steel ingots. All it really needed was some better writing and some actual ramifications when you finish, instead of just mainly choosing if you should kill off the vendors or not mainly. Oh, and after some quick checking, yes Marie was immune to both radiation and the horrible degenerative disease found in The Pitt. Shame nothing from that ever showed up again.
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Jun 18, 2018 00:58
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Wolfsheim posted:Ehhhh this is pretty much a description of 99% of RPGs made. There's even a bit in the first Mass Effect where you literally stop an arguing pair of strangers in the street to butt in with your opinion on whether the girl's baby should get surgery for some medical condition. i loved that bit in ME because that lady was an anti-vaxxer like six years before I knew what that even was also iirc they court your opinion on the matter and this might be after shepherd became a Spectre, i can't really recall
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Jun 18, 2018 01:02
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A 50S RAYGUN posted:having a disinterested third party whose primary impartiality comes from ignorance and indifference making your major decisions is like, super bad, especially if that third party is more or less showing up and telling people how things are going to be. Yeah exactly, and it would be really great if someone wouldn't rely so heavily on this. Video games have such reductive plots, when the big developers could easily do better.
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Jun 18, 2018 01:38
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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UED Special Ops posted:Honestly, The Pitt comes darn close to being a very good dlc, what with having to choose between Warner, who is just using you and the slaves for petty revenge, and Ashur, who is far too obsessed with The Pitt having a working steel mill and has created an untenable situation in trying to stay there. Its just the ending where it really stumbles. If you side with Warner, Midea pretty much says that no one is getting food brought in and Warner is pretty much is just loafing around getting drunk and not actually doing anything, yet nothing really gets done with that and there are no gameplay effects. And if you side with Ashur, you sadly can't call Warner and/or Midea out for not having any science or medical knowledge or having any real plan post uprising, all you can say is variations of "Oh no, I can't kidnap a baby." I've always been fairly sure that the original plan for the Pitt's plot must have been for the slaves to kill the baby if you side with them, before someone (understandably) nixed the idea of depicting infanticide. I mean the woman you have to bring the baby to is named after the wife of Jason in Greek mythology who murdered her own children, for one.
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Jun 18, 2018 02:39
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PittTheElder posted:Yeah exactly, and it would be really great if someone wouldn't rely so heavily on this. Video games have such reductive plots, when the big developers could easily do better. So you want more games where the game plays itself and you as the player character do what exactly? If I wanted to play Meeting Simulator 19 with the Intern from Chicago DLC I would be in a different video game thread. What is so wrong with being the hero in the Fallout series exactly? It's cheap action brought to you by Die Hard and there is a load of corny humor. Not to become too hyperbolic here but how could a game with a sexy light switch do better?
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Jun 18, 2018 03:01
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Paulywallywalrus posted:So you want more games where the game plays itself and you as the player character do what exactly? Pretty much the same thing you do now, go on quests, explore the world. It's the part where you become literally a superhero and get to choose the outcome of the story that I hate. No other medium don't let you do that poo poo. To take Fallout 3 as example, very little would even need to change, just the god awful ending. You can even have the Enclave or Brotherhood emerge victorious based on your cumulative actions or something if you want to make the ending somewhat malleable. Just don't make it reliant on the player to do everything, don't make the player character ultra cozy with Elder Lyons, probably replace the Raven Rock sequence with something else. I don't want to play an action movie, or a superhero movie, I want to play a good movie. And it's not that action movies are bad necessarily, just repetitive and uninteresting.
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Jun 18, 2018 03:11
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A fallout game but getting shot either cripples or kills you
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Jun 18, 2018 03:18
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PittTheElder posted:Pretty much the same thing you do now, go on quests, explore the world. It's the part where you become literally a superhero and get to choose the outcome of the story that I hate. No other medium don't let you do that poo poo. I mean, the thing that makes games "games" is that the players actions gets to influence the world around them. If you wanted to watch a movie well you can just watch a movie It might be what you like but I feel like a game like that would be extremely unsatisfying for everyone else
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Jun 18, 2018 03:33
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Reveilled posted:To be honest (ha), I feel like the story of that DLC is contrived exclusively to force you into its moral dilemmas, without a huge amount of thought given to how plausible the setup was. Can of worms or not I think your point about how the tribals are deprived of agency is an interesting one to consider. Yeah, it's a real testament to the dialogue in Honest Hearts that, the first time I played, I was so engaged in it that I didn't notice the flaws in the story's set-up/execution. It's only much later now that I'm looking back on them that they become apparent. Arcsquad12 posted:Honest Hearts makes a lot more sense if you don't view the story as that of what the Tribals want, but as Obsidian examining the role of White Man's Burden in colonization stories. While I also would have liked to see the Sorrows and Dead Horses speak their minds about the situation with the White Legs, I also think it is fascinating how their views are coloured by Joshua and Daniel's viewpoints. Follows-Chalk all but hero worships Joshua for making the Dead Horses into an army, while Waking Cloud is unwilling to see fault in Daniel because he helped her through childbirth. Their own views have been superseded by their idolization of their colonizers. It even applies to the White Legs. They want to impress Caesar by conquering Zion and killing the Burned Man, not because they want it for themselves. The Zion Valley conflict is essentially a proxy war fought by colonial powers pitting the locals against one another and a toxic mix of saviour complex and hero worship means that the Tribals are the ones who suffer. Interestingly enough, this is addressed directly through Waking Cloud. Daniel has been lying to her about her husband being alive when in reality he's dead. His reason for doing this is because she's the closest things the tribe has to a doctor and he doesn't want her to be distracted. When she finds out, she's furious and she calls him out on how lovely what he did was because he was A) not trusting her to be able to handle her feelings like an adult and B) manipulating her to gain something under the guise of sparing her feelings. But the thing is that this is such important lesson/theme that it really should have been a core feature of the main story-line instead of just part of a side arc of a minor character. Having the option to encourage The Sorrows to call out both Daniel and Joshua for exploiting and manipulating them to achieve their goals (no matter how noble and well meaning those goals may be) would have made a much more powerful story. Because as it stands it's more of a straight up White Mans Burden story as a opposed to a deconstruction of a White Man's Burden story, which is what I think it wants to be (but doesn't quite manage). 2house2fly posted:Fun fact, Daniel was originally intended to be Asian to try and lessen the appearance of this a bit. He became white somewhere along the line I don't think making Daniel Asian would have changed things much, it's still a story of an outsider coming in and educating innocent childlike natives And yeah, they really should have let you call out Joshua to his face. He probably would have found some way to justify "Sending a group of untrained civilians to their deaths in order to slightly boost the number of troops available in the final battle", because he's a former member of the legion and justifying atrocities for the greater good is how they sleep at night, but it would have been nice to at least force him to acknowledge and explain it. Samuel Clemens posted:It's not just Honest Hearts. How often does the Courier make life-changing decisions for a community instead of letting them arrive at a consensus? You're the poster child of paternalism. Yeah, but at least in those cases the Courier is making the choices for the group/person directly. Someone or some group comes asking for help and then you either decide to help them or screw them over. The Sorrows don't even get that amount of agency. You can either choose to let them belong to "Pacifist Daddy" or "Fight Daddy" and the decision to go to The Sorrows directly and encourage them to decide "Hey! We don't NEED a Daddy! We're loving adults! We should be able make our own choices" isn't even available. It's not just Joshua and Daniel who infantilize The Sorrows, it's the narrative. Throughout the story The Sorrows are treated more as a concept or a plot point rather than a group of people, something used to develop the more interesting and well rounded white male main characters. Joshua, Daniel, and even Randall Clark (The Survivalist) who died decades before the story even starts are all given much more characterization and humanization than The Sorrows ever are. The worst part is that the story seems fully aware of how problematic this is, but then never actually does much to subvert it. The Sorrows remain childish props/concepts for the entire story, I think only one of them (Waking Cloud) even gets a name. In order for the story I think/hope Obsidian was trying to tell (About how "The White Man's Burden" is insulting and damaging bullshit) to work they would have needed to: A) Make The Sorrows actual characters, give them names, flesh them out, let you get to know them and see them as people instead of just things Joshua and Daniel are fighting over. and B) Give you the option to say "Let the Sorrows make their own decision" (Of course, since this is a video game, The Sorrows wouldn't really be making their own decision, they would probably decide what to do based on how you had behaved in quests or how you had answered their questions, same as what happens with Raul/Veronica/Arcade in their personal quests. But it's the principal of the thing!) In conclusion: Obsidian really dropped the ball on Honest Hearts. You know how they say it's incredibly difficult to make an anti-war movie that doesn't end up accidentally glorifying war? Well apparently the same holds true for stories about white men and their burdens: if you're not careful you're going to end up writing a story about these cool and awesome white men tragically struggling with complex things while completely forgetting to develop the natives that your characters also see as two-dimensional children destined to be led by them. I'm afraid I'm going to have to officially demote Honest Hearts to the position of "Least Favorite Fallout New Vegas DLC" (Good news Dead Money! You're moving up in the world!) Thank you for coming to my TED talk. Space Cadet Omoly fucked around with this message at 04:16 on Jun 18, 2018 |
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Jun 18, 2018 03:48
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If you actually ask Daniel about it he tells you outright that the Sorrows have hunters and have killed White Legs in self defense. The issue for him is that they've never actually engaged in the kind of concerted aggressive fighting that war entails, and he's worried about the effect it will have on them.
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Jun 18, 2018 05:42
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I'm really excited about this game. Now that I've found this thread I'm going to go read the rest of it. I bet you're all excited as me.
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Jun 18, 2018 06:43
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Beetphyxious posted:I'm really excited about this game. Now that I've found this thread I'm going to go read the rest of it. I bet you're all excited as me. To be totally honest as time goes by I feel myself becoming more and more excited and less snarky. Maybe I am just made of knee jerks and and a foundness for horse pate.
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Jun 18, 2018 14:13
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Paulywallywalrus posted:To be totally honest as time goes by I feel myself becoming more and more excited and less snarky. Maybe I am just made of knee jerks and and a foundness for horse pate. I'm actually on board once they patch in private servers. I could see playing through some Fallout dungeons with my wife. This thread got me nostalgic for my time in Fallout 4. I fired it up and boy is that world dead when you've seen the sights. I did stumble across the USS Constitution questline, though. Not sure how I overlooked a rocket ship in my original playthrough.
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Jun 18, 2018 14:37
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Vinylshadow posted:One of my fonder moments of the DLC was after talking Wernher down, you go out and walk over a series of catwalks before reaching the roof of a building It only happens when you have all the addons installed... one of them conflicts with The Pitt in that very specific way, which is weird because there's no reason for any sort of interaction between addons at all! I don't know that it was ever fixed. Wolfsheim posted:Ehhhh this is pretty much a description of 99% of RPGs made. There's even a bit in the first Mass Effect where you literally stop an arguing pair of strangers in the street to butt in with your opinion on whether the girl's baby should get surgery for some medical condition. It's not surgery, it's curing undesirable and/or possibly life threatening traits in vitro with gene therapy. While it's framed as a heart thing, the obvious undercurrent with "correcting" babies in vitro is what if the kid is gonna be queer? The concept of making sure your baby is "normal" (by whatever criteria you deem "normal" to be) vs. letting it be how it is regardless is an... interesting situation. They walked a lot of stuff like that back after the EA buyout. It was really none of Shepard's business anyway, she shouldn't have gotten involved.
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Jun 18, 2018 14:47
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NofrikinfuN posted:I'm actually on board once they patch in private servers. I could see playing through some Fallout dungeons with my wife. Did the same. Also the Constitution is by far my favorite questline. A bunch of swashbuckling robots defending my delicate virginal American rights? You bet your rear end I will sign up cap'n.
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Jun 18, 2018 15:07
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Paulywallywalrus posted:Did the same. Also the Constitution is by far my favorite questline. A bunch of swashbuckling robots defending my delicate virginal American rights? You bet your rear end I will sign up cap'n. I loved launching that ship.
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Jun 18, 2018 15:11
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I want to commandeer the Constitution and have an aerial dogfight against the Prydwen
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Jun 18, 2018 15:31
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I'm not the only one who jumped onto the ship when it started flying, right it actually kills you when it crashes
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Jun 18, 2018 15:40
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Your Computer posted:I'm not the only one who jumped onto the ship when it started flying, right That's the canonical end of the Sole Survivor's journey There's no other way to go out
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Jun 18, 2018 15:50
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