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joylessdivision posted:The reaction on Twitter has been doom and gloom. Or people demanding refunds or claiming the developers are "Just giving up" People are the loving worst. Between these reactions and the internet making GBS threads itself because Cyberpunk 2077 isn't set in an eternal night during a thunderstorm I'm about done. I am devastated this has happened. The game was a mess at times, but it had heart and I loved it dearly. I don't know how long this legal mess will take to clear, but let's hope that once the dust settles a stray bolt of lightning brings the game back for one last rampage. Or a "Cropsy" dlc loophole.
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Jun 12, 2018 08:58
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How can anyone play dead by daylight over this???
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Jun 12, 2018 09:41
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Origami Dali posted:How can anyone play dead by daylight over this??? I wonder about that. I have noticed the f13 Reddit seems to always have people shilling for DBD. I think the game they enjoy playing is called evangelizing for their chosen horse. It's like StarCitizen. For the people that "like" it the real game is trying to convince other people to play it.
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Jun 12, 2018 10:55
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Origami Dali posted:How can anyone play dead by daylight over this??? Having played both (DbD first), I've not been able to wrap my head around the very same thing. When dead by daylight first came out, I thought it was a really cool idea and I was watching all sorts of videos and streams about it. I picked up a copy for both myself and my boyfriend, and we played it for about a half an hour to 45 minutes, and really felt as though we saw everything that there was to see and refunded it. So when Friday the 13th came out, I was hesitant to buy it for the same reason. But I found myself eagerly watching streams and videos about it for around a month before finally picking it up. Since picking it up, I have put more hours into it then I have any other game in the past year or two. It's a bummer that it's not bigger, because it really deserves to be. I guess it really shows how important it is to come out first, even though Dead by Daylight's development started after Friday the 13th's. I think the number one thing to hurt the game was simply being too ambitious and releasing to three platforms simultaneously. That's much too big of an undertaking for a new studio to help to keep up with, especially when issues arose. Dead by Daylight could afford to make mistakes because it didn't have any competition. That was not a luxury that Friday the 13th has when Dead by Daylight exists for half the price. It's far more of a game than Dead by Daylight - especially now - but it has far more leaks to plug as a result. And while it is a much smaller issue relative to everything else, the way that they handled the whole Savani Jason thing really put off a lot of people. It turned something that should have been an asset into a real liability. And really not something they could afford to do when you have competition bringing Michael Myers, Freddy Krueger, Saw, etc. Even if DbD did about as little as they could get away with in making them distinct from one another, people are just going to care that they're there. I could carry on, but however things shake out, it has made its way onto my list as one of my favorite gaming experiences ever.
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Jun 12, 2018 11:10
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Dead by Daylight owns because people put their twitch url as their name so you can stream snipe and mori them, then watch them melt down in real time 
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Jun 12, 2018 11:30
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Kelp Plankton posted:At least they got the singleplayer out before this happened, I guess Like I said, this is probably a temporary thing. The entire franchise is on hold until the rights issue is cleared up, but if the case gets decided in Cunningham's favor (which it almost definitely will be, since his complaint specifies that Miller signed a contract to become an employee of his and the contract was apparently attached to the legal documents filed in the case) then everything should return to business as usual.
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Jun 12, 2018 14:02
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Yeah but hasn’t this whole ordeal been dragging down the franchise since the remake in 09? Like yeah it’s absurd but it seems to be just dragging on. Maybe someone should invite his estate and legal team on a retreat, I know some nice secluded cabins in NJ 
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Jun 12, 2018 14:23
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If there's ONE good thing about this lawsuit, it's that we didn't get that prequel where the killer was Elias Voorhees for the first half of the film before the shift to a Jason POV cam (someone stabbed him in the head with a go-pro  ) for the last half.
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Jun 12, 2018 14:33
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Coffee And Pie posted:Yeah but hasn’t this whole ordeal been dragging down the franchise since the remake in 09? Like yeah it’s absurd but it seems to be just dragging on. After the reboot, the problem is that the franchise was jointly owned by New Line and Paramount and they had to negotiate and work together on any films. The economic downturn led to them focusing on low-risk films with a high possibility for profit, and unfortunately even the financial success of the reboot wasn't big enough. After Warner Bros. (the parent company of New Line) gave full rights to Paramount, they started work on a new film. It got canceled after Rings didn't do too well (because big studios that make films by committee tend to see the failure of a film as the unfeasibility of the entire genre or concept, rather than the individual film sucking), but New Line was supposed to regain the rights this year. Now Miller's bullshit is putting a further hold on everything.
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Jun 12, 2018 15:12
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I Greyhound posted:Sleepaway Camp Man, that'd be a great game. It'd be like the axed "Who is 5?" mode for F13, but you have to guess which female counselor is the killer-with-a-penis.
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Jun 12, 2018 15:35
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King Vidiot posted:Man, that'd be a great game. It'd be like the axed "Who is 5?" mode for F13, but you have to guess which female counselor is the killer-with-a-penis. Nah, get Pamela Springsteen to come back and record cheesy one liners. I want Unhappy Campers Angela killing kids and giving lessons.
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Jun 12, 2018 17:51
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chitoryu12 posted:Like I said, this is probably a temporary thing. The entire franchise is on hold until the rights issue is cleared up, but if the case gets decided in Cunningham's favor (which it almost definitely will be, since his complaint specifies that Miller signed a contract to become an employee of his and the contract was apparently attached to the legal documents filed in the case) then everything should return to business as usual. Yeah but these game devs have a business to run they cant afford to sit around and pay people to wait for a court case to be decided so they can continue to pump out free updates for a finished game. They basically just have to move on to their next project full time
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Jun 12, 2018 17:53
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What really loving sucks about this development is that Gun was really cool and upfront about all their plans and had a nice roadmap for content, including stuff that was reasonably close to release, and now even that stuff that was almost ready to go has to be shelved indefinitely. What a kick to the dick for anyone following along and looking forward to all the new stuff that kept getting showcased.
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Jun 12, 2018 17:58
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Hurry up and croak Vic you fucker, the guy's made way more than enough money off the series anyway, he's just being a greedy prick.
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Jun 12, 2018 20:27
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Wasn't this game originally going to be called something like "Camp Blood" or something like that, because they had no idea they'd be able to get the Friday the 13th rights since they're a small indie company?
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Jun 12, 2018 22:01
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Gloomy Rube posted:Wasn't this game originally going to be called something like "Camp Blood" or something like that, because they had no idea they'd be able to get the Friday the 13th rights since they're a small indie company? the executable is still called SummerCamp.exe because of these beginnings
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Jun 12, 2018 22:05
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I get the feeling Miller hasn't made much beyond the first film, relatively speaking (Cunningham et al claim that, in addition to the sum he's received for his creation credit, he received continual benefits and a cut of the sequels via his membership to the Writers Guild). Wes Craven had a similar issue with Bob Shaye over his cut of the Nightmare on Elm St. sequels/merchandizing, for which he received a "based on characters created by" credit and a relatively small sum compared to the huge grosses New Line were raking in. Craven and Shaye amicably renegotiated the deal when they agreed to do New Nightmare. As far as I can tell, Miller isn't asking to retain sole rights of the franchise, only the sole rights of his original screenplay, a renegotiated cut of the royalties stemming from it and current works derivative of it (including the sequels), and co-ownership with Cunningham of any new derivative works, which would need to be approved by both parties. It's all going to come down to his original contract for the screenplay, and while it might be dismissed in a day (I haven't read the contract, but the arguments in his filing are filled with a lot of details that will likely be considered not pertinent or heresay), it isn't an entirely baseless claim, legally speaking. If the wording/terms of the contract are vague enough that he could be considered a spec writer rather than work for hire, Friday the 13th will be a more complicated property from here on out, but not necessarily dead.
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Jun 12, 2018 22:16
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Origami Dali posted:I get the feeling Miller hasn't made much beyond the first film, relatively speaking (Cunningham et al claim that, in addition to the sum he's received for his creation credit, he received continual benefits and a cut of the sequels via his membership to the Writers Guild). Wes Craven had a similar issue with Bob Shaye over his cut of the Nightmare on Elm St. sequels/merchandizing, for which he received a "based on characters created by" credit and a relatively small sum compared to the huge grosses New Line were raking in. Craven and Shaye amicably renegotiated the deal when they agreed to do New Nightmare. As far as I know, it's actually not that complicated. According to Cunningham, the contract is pretty specific that Miller is an employee. Under copyright law where the contract was formed, any creative works made by an employee for an employer are under the employer's ownership. There's no shared rights or anything that can revert after a certain time period. Miller's entire argument is "Nuh-uh!" and insisting that the contract didn't actually make him an employee, he was just some dude who wrote a script that someone made a movie from.
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Jun 13, 2018 00:29
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chitoryu12 posted:As far as I know, it's actually not that complicated. According to Cunningham, the contract is pretty specific that Miller is an employee. Under copyright law where the contract was formed, any creative works made by an employee for an employer are under the employer's ownership. There's no shared rights or anything that can revert after a certain time period. Well yeah, that's according to Cunningham, who would of course make that claim if he doesn't want Miller to cash in. Miller's claim is that the contract doesn't make it explicit that he's "work for hire" (the counterclaim notes the contract never uses those words, but again, I haven't read the contract). Miller's hope is that the contract is vaguely worded enough so that the judge has to rely on the particular circumstances of how he wrote the script to make the determination that he was writing for spec (such as his claim that he had finished the script before the contract had been inked, the contract only specified payment for the first and final draft but not the initial 'treatment' or any revised drafts, he was given free reign to take as long as he liked, which is unusual for 'work for hire' but not for spec writing, he worked from home and used his own materials, and a bunch of other claims he makes that, according to previous relevant case law, establishes that he was not 'work for hire'). In all likelihood, Miller probably knew he was work for hire, but ultimately that doesn't matter if the contract isn't clear enough. Granted, he has one lawyer, and Cunningham is gunning with a dozen, but with a friendly enough judge, he may have just enough precedent on his side to eek it out.
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Jun 13, 2018 01:27
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Larry “Shelly” Zerner (a lawyer, who knew?) explains the whole Cunningham vs. Miller situation: http://bloody-disgusting.com/movie/3504232/
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Jun 14, 2018 16:31
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If I were Cunningham I would not be dragging my heels on this. Whatever percentage Miller takes is going to be far less money than what he'll lose by letting the franchise stay dead during a massive horror film boom. Like look at how much money IT made by being completely mediocre. If you turn in even a halfway decent Jason movie you're probably going to pull in like $300M. And Jesus, the tie-in products. The Funko Pops for the new movie would outweigh whatever Miller's cut is. loving settle, Cunningham.
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Jun 14, 2018 18:16
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Yardbomb posted:Hurry up and croak Vic you fucker, the guy's made way more than enough money off the series anyway, he's just being a greedy prick. Larry Zerner posted:In the case of Victor Miller, he was originally paid about $9,500 for the original Friday the 13th script A GLISTENING HODOR posted:Like look at how much money IT made by being completely mediocre. What. Other than that bit of insanity, I agree, he should just settle. A.o.D. fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Jun 14, 2018 |
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Jun 14, 2018 18:20
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Ghostpilot posted:Larry “Shelly” Zerner (a lawyer, who knew?) explains the whole Cunningham vs. Miller situation: That's really interesting. Gun knew this was coming, probably explains why that last patch was pushed out so buggy. Now all they are doing is "fixes". Too bad the new map must not have been close enough to pass as finished.
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Jun 15, 2018 11:20
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A GLISTENING HODOR posted:If I were Cunningham I would not be dragging my heels on this. Whatever percentage Miller takes is going to be far less money than what he'll lose by letting the franchise stay dead during a massive horror film boom. poo poo, just announcing that one of the 'classic pillars of horror' is coming back would give you a license to print money. The last F13 reboot was terrible and it still renewed hype in the series, imagine what a halfway competent remake could do!
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Jun 15, 2018 14:14
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Picture a F13 movie directed competently (no jump scares), with all 100% real, in camera practical effects, and it's set at a re-opened summer camp with a dozen horny teen counselors and weird neighbors (read: strange locals like Ralph, not southern stereotypes... in New Jersey), and a sheriff and some hitchhikers and a drunk grave digger and some potheads to really beef up the kill count. Get KNB effects, have Tom Savini in a cameo as a biker, and above all else, if he's up to it, get Kane Hodder involved or AS Jason. Making a high quality "low budget" practical effects film would be nearly revolutionary now.
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Jun 15, 2018 14:36
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Friday the 13th: Jason Lives part 2 sounds great.
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Jun 15, 2018 14:41
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Hell, they could go back and shoot at Camp No Be Bo Sco, they’re already running tours, they’d love that publicity I bet
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Jun 15, 2018 14:42
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Also, and this is the most important part, Do NOT try to "ramp up" Jason by giving him a House of 1000 Corpses / Texas Chainsaw remake / The Void / etc. "house of horrors" full of "lore". Everyone loves doing that in horror films, now. Don't. Jason is a weirdo in a shack that delivers in-your-face kills. He's not a ghost, or a curse, or a stalker, or whatever. He's a murder hobo. Keep it simple. Keep it tight. No lore. No dusty books that explain his origins. Just a campfire story about Pamela Voorhees and then straight to side characters being picked off until the third act becomes a chase. Simple.
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Jun 15, 2018 14:52
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A GLISTENING HODOR posted:Picture a F13 movie directed competently (no jump scares), with all 100% real, in camera practical effects, and it's set at a re-opened summer camp with a dozen horny teen counselors and weird neighbors (read: strange locals like Ralph, not southern stereotypes... in New Jersey), and a sheriff and some hitchhikers and a drunk grave digger and some potheads to really beef up the kill count. I know he's divisive these days, but someone like James Gunn would be ideal for this. He cut his teeth on fun, low-budget horror, all done with practical effects. Ask him to do a classic slasher movie of any stripe and watch him casually mention how he's had ideas along those lines bubbling away for decades. Regardless, the biggest challenge would be to get the writers/directors to take it seriously and not do it for 'ironic' giggles. Having a few knowing winks to the audience is fine, a few shoutouts to the fans shows you know your poo poo, but the last thing you need is to be a total rear end in a top hat about the series.
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Jun 15, 2018 14:58
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A GLISTENING HODOR posted:Picture a F13 movie directed competently (no jump scares), with all 100% real, in camera practical effects, and it's set at a re-opened summer camp with a dozen horny teen counselors and weird neighbors (read: strange locals like Ralph, not southern stereotypes... in New Jersey), and a sheriff and some hitchhikers and a drunk grave digger and some potheads to really beef up the kill count. That's not far off from what I'm doing, just with a smaller cast and simpler effects. Virtually everything is in-camera because I can't afford CGI beyond the simplest stuff (like digitally erasing a tag off the back of the killer's jumpsuit I forgot to tear off before the first shooting day), and I've got private land I can film on so I can fire blanks like a real 70s slasher. I'm hoping to use it as self-training and a jumping off point for making longer, more elaborate works.
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Jun 15, 2018 17:02
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I don't understand why people are flipping out so much. Game is not dead, everything is just on hold. Worst case is that the game remains at its current state. (Which sucks because I wanted to murder goons with Jason X) If you were somehow thinking that the game would somehow transcend from the campy buggy mess that it always was and always will be, then I have a spaceship JPG to sell you. ~~~~~~~~~ On the legal side, shouldn't this kind of copyright dispute be treated like a property easement? Pretend Burk owns 40 acres of land in Texas and I live in the adjacent property. There's a treeline and some woods separating our property, where Burk owns a few feet on MY side of the tree line, just because that's how the property lines are. Burk ignores this part of his property because it's useless to him. He has to hike through trees to even get to it, and for all intents and purposes it's connected to my lawn and he has no feasible way to regularly maintain the grass. So I start mowing Burks lawn, because that makes sense. I make a horseshoe pit on it, and invite Burk over for BBQs where we use that part of the property. I trim the trees back and put a garden down - whatever. If this goes on for long enough (a few years) then by US law, I now own that property. It's mine - I've been maintaining and using it without protest from Burk. That's called an easement. This same concept ought to apply to intellectual property. If GUN made a game with Jason, have been maintaining Jason, have been using Jason - then Jason is theirs.
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Jun 18, 2018 14:37
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I think an easement is more if your property is landlocked with no road access, you might have an easement on a 10/15 foot wide strip of Burk's land that allows road access to your property. It's still Burk's land, but you're legally allowed to use that strip for vehicle access to your plot. What you're describing is closer to adverse posession I don't really have a point here I just wanted to sound like I know stuff
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Jun 18, 2018 14:47
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Tinfoil Papercut posted:I don't understand why people are flipping out so much. Game is not dead, everything is just on hold. Worst case is that the game remains at its current state. (Which sucks because I wanted to murder goons with Jason X) Copyright tends to be pretty strict. You don't have to actually file copyright for something for a copyright to exist on it (which is how you get protection from idea theft), but if you sign away the rights you've signed away the rights and they can only be transferred again with another legal process. In the case of Miller, the argument from Cunningham is that he signed a contract as an employee. Under state law where the contract was signed, any material created by the employee for the employer is legally the employer's property. My workplace has the same arrangement with its trainers, where any material they independently create for the training program legally belongs to the company. Assuming the contract says as much, Cunningham's company still owns the property. While Gun has been making the game, new Friday the 13th films have been in development ever since the 2009 reboot. They've had problems with cancellations and now this lawsuit putting things on hold, but it's not like the property was dormant.
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Jun 18, 2018 15:15
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chitoryu12 posted:Copyright tends to be pretty strict. You don't have to actually file copyright for something for a copyright to exist on it (which is how you get protection from idea theft), but if you sign away the rights you've signed away the rights and they can only be transferred again with another legal process. Because keeping Jason Voorhees alive in popular culture and entertainment somehow hurts their future movies? People suck rear end, just be happy they made the game, make your movie - work WITH them and maybe you can both make money together instead of spending on lawyers.
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Jun 18, 2018 16:38
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Tinfoil Papercut posted:Because keeping Jason Voorhees alive in popular culture and entertainment somehow hurts their future movies? Sadly not everyone can be as reasonable as we are with our land deals
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Jun 18, 2018 16:41
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Burkion posted:Sadly not everyone can be as reasonable as we are with our land deals Imagine if we actually lived next door.
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Jun 18, 2018 16:52
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chitoryu12 posted:Copyright tends to be pretty strict. You don't have to actually file copyright for something for a copyright to exist on it (which is how you get protection from idea theft), but if you sign away the rights you've signed away the rights and they can only be transferred again with another legal process. Friday the 13th and Jason as a character specifically have a funky rights history anyway. I'm pretty sure Paramount held the rights to the name Friday the 13th which is why the New Line movies always had Jason in the title, I think they only owned the rights to the character or something. It's why the remake was a New Line/Paramount/Platinum Dunes joint. It's all needlessly complicated and it's two old men having a legal slap fight because they had a falling out years ago.
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Jun 18, 2018 17:16
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Tinfoil Papercut posted:Because keeping Jason Voorhees alive in popular culture and entertainment somehow hurts their future movies? I'm confused about exactly who you think is suing who here. Victor Miller (the scriptwriter for the first film) is suing Cunningham (the co-creator of the series, who hired Miller to write the script) for rights that he wouldn't have if he was indeed hired as an employee. Gun Media only has the rights to Friday the 13th as far as the video game is concerned. Because of the lawsuit, all work on the Friday the 13th series is temporarily put on hold. Gun Media isn't actually involved in the suit beyond not being able to continue releasing content until the rights issue is resolved.
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Jun 18, 2018 18:56
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Tinfoil Papercut posted:Imagine if we actually lived next door. Burk, I think I have a lead on who put the drat tree through your bathroom.
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Jun 19, 2018 00:51
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Gun Media should just release content updates with legally-distinct renames, like Mason Ex and his map The Brundel. "Why no, this new character we're adding is our own creation. Mason Moorhouse."
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Jun 19, 2018 01:02
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