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A Heart cult sounds like the Suppression Bureau.
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Jun 19, 2018 19:53
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How does there last game hold up, Sunless Sea. Thinking of picking it up but the trailer doesn't exactly grab me. Worth the 18 quid on steam?
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Jun 19, 2018 20:41
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Marenghi posted:How does there last game hold up, Sunless Sea. Thinking of picking it up but the trailer doesn't exactly grab me. Worth the 18 quid on steam? It's very similar to cultist simulator. Worse mechanics but much deeper lore and atmosphere because it has all of Fallen London's years of lore development to draw on. Technically by different companies -- as I understand it, Alexis Kennedy was the lead writer on Fallen London/Sunless sea, left that company because he'd started dating a coworker and didn't like the ethics of that, so he and the coworker founded a new company to make this game. (I could be wrong in all that). Net result is Sunless Sea has like a decade of lore in it but the mechanics are kinda janky and weird because Kennedy is a much better writer than he is game designer. CS has better mechanics/ui though because Kennedy has clearly gained experience (or maybe his compatriot is better than he is with that stuff). If you like CS's lore and atmosphere Sunless Sea is worthwhile, but just be prepared to accept a lot of jank in the mechanics Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Jun 19, 2018 |
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Jun 19, 2018 20:45
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edit: misread the question
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Jun 19, 2018 20:45
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Marenghi posted:How does there last game hold up, Sunless Sea. Thinking of picking it up but the trailer doesn't exactly grab me. Worth the 18 quid on steam? you can run a triangle trade from London to the Kingdom of Prester John to a kingdom on the edge of reality. wine for coffee for parabola-linen
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Jun 19, 2018 21:00
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"Hieronymous Alloy" posted:If you like CS's lore and atmosphere Sunless Sea is worthwhile, but just be prepared to accept a lot of jank in the mechanics I do enjoy the atmosphere. And I had the exact same trepidation looking at the trailers for this. I never would have been for card games but the writing did manage to suck me in. I can't imagine a jankier UI though. CS isn't exactly the smoothest experience, but the roughness is part of the charm, it almost plays into the story.
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Jun 19, 2018 21:06
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Marenghi posted:I do enjoy the atmosphere. And I had the exact same trepidation looking at the trailers for this. I never would have been for card games but the writing did manage to suck me in. Imo the interface in Sunless Sea is fine, but the gameplay is still crap. Basically both games are similar that you need to wade through crap grind to get to the dark secrets.
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Jun 19, 2018 21:24
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Sekenr posted:Imo the interface in Sunless Sea is fine, but the gameplay is still crap. Basically both games are similar that you need to wade through crap grind to get to the dark secrets. I'm mostly thinking of the ship combat interface in early versions of the beta which I think did actually get changed later but I'd stopped playing by that point Another way of saying it: Sunless Sea has very similar gameplay to Cultist Simulator except instead of timers and drag-and-drop, you have to sail a boat around in order to carry your cards where you want them to go. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Jun 19, 2018 |
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Jun 19, 2018 21:49
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All of Kennedy's games share the same concept of content-gating through a timer or some other grindy game mechanic. In Fallen London it was actions per hour in the browser game, with one piece of content revealed per action. In Sunless Sea it was one "action" per port visit with travels between ports as the limiter. In CS it's direct timers. On the one hand I understand the need to space out content so that the player digests each piece. But it still feels janky and artificial and I wish it could be worked into the gameplay loop better/more naturally. I think Sunless Sea does the best at this, though. I'd highly recommend it if you can mod the text files (google Sunless Sea modding, it's easy) to double ship speed and remove/decrease fuel and supply consumption. Unmodded, I'd recommend it with reservations.
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Jun 19, 2018 22:36
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fuel and supplies are fine. just make them decay at a proportional rate and increase ship speed thankfully his writing has changed from taking every noun, adding 2 zs an a q and changing it to a proper noun to something a little more tolerable
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Jun 19, 2018 22:38
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So I decided that the fun of the game was in discovery, and elected to spoil as little as possible for myself. And promptly went mad trying to figure out how to move my world-breaking cult out of my parents' basement. Anyway, having achieved Enlightenment and read the thread, i'm here to ramble about Lore. Someone else already went over the Seven-Coiled and the Colonel / Blind Man / Scarred One / Cartographer of Scars, but the books that turned up in my game gave me thoughts about the Forge specifically. So first it seems like there's a difference between the names and the Names of an Hour. All those are the names above are of the Hour that embodies Edge, and the Lionsmith/Golden Tribune who defied him is one of his Names (probably). Capital-N Names seem to be independent of an Hour, but subservient to it in sharing in their aspect; for instance, one of the books refers to the Grail seducing a mortal musician into becoming one of its Names. Anyway, my point was that another book mentions that many of what are now hours were Names of the Sun-in-Splendor. Specifically, it mentioned the Madrugad as being one of its names, presiding over death and entry into the House. (Presumably through the funeral pyre, and ascension to the mansus, death was aspected with the sun; after the Division [which another book comments on being tied to 'the eruption of barbarians and their heathen gods], it became associated with winter.) Regardless, the first book says that Forge 'first eclipsed Flint, and then shattered it' in order to take their place as an Hour. Another book explicitly states that the Unburnt God is the Forge-of-Days (as well as the fact that King Cruicible shouts the praises of the Unburnt God when you learn their tongue), those both being names (i'm fairly sure of the lower case) of the same thing. The Burning of the Unburnt God claims that the god in question is burnt in punishment for its transgressions, which were related to them in fact being a Goddess. Other books say that the Hours restrain their passions to prevent destruction of the mansus, but also to keep from committing 'the crime of the sky'. And even among the Names and the Long, love is forbidden; one of the House's Long and the Name who watched the peacock gate fell in love and were exiled, but the Long castrated himself even as they left to keep from 'the great transgression' (which presumably won them exile instead of destruction, as another story has them being watched over afterward, until they give themselves to the Forge to be remade). Also, there was one about a cult in one of the secret histories which forbade 'man to lie with woman' because of the crime of the sky, and lastly, a commentary on the origin of humanity which affirms that 'to devour one's parents' is specifically not the crime of the sky. So, my theory here is the classical greek origin myth where mother earth and father sky give birth to creation from nothing (or Nothing) must be the 'crime of the sky' that the Hours and the mansus live in fear of. Perhaps in a place where nothing ever truly dies, nothing wholesome can be born, either? From there, the Goddess Forge-of-Days loved the Sun-in-Splendor; the Grail gloated of the 'coming shaping', and one of their acts 'created the sparks of what would become the flowermaker'. Eventually, the Forge sundered the sun out of 'love, thirst, curiosity, and envy', presumably creating the Solar Hours. I think that at this point the Forge was burnt, perhaps in punishment for those transgressions, or to prevent any Hour from having the might to sunder others. Nevertheless, she still seems to have sympathy for other sinners, as she did allow the exiled Imago and her Long into her forge to be remade. Also, goddamn, every single story the Grail is in, it's trying to subvert the other Hours and gain influence for itself. It really is impossible to try to string together all the given information about any topic without realizing you're babbling like some sort of... weird cultist or something. And since it's apparently a thing, here's how i'd organized my table.  Although i did like the ring-o-verbs in the center that someone had. Ceebees fucked around with this message at 05:11 on Jun 20, 2018 |
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Jun 20, 2018 02:40
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A correction. The Lionsmith was a Name, of he who at the time was the Tribune of Scars. He is become an Hour, through his betrayal. Such are the mysteries of the Sharpened Lore: truth lies solely in the rending.
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Jun 20, 2018 02:52
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Ceebees posted:And since it's apparently a thing, here's how i'd organized my table.  The cards must not cross the border. Except when I need more space. Really wish health, reason, passion, notoriety, mystique and all other stacky piles auto attracted each other.
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Jun 20, 2018 03:00
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I'm interested to know if the Names of the Sun-in-Splendor were appointed Hours after his death, or if it's some sort of spontaneous thing that happens. I assumed it's the latter, if only because most of the Hours don't seem keen on having any more competition than there already is. Also yeah, The Grail is a right oval office. I actually think the Thunderskin is probably one of the nicer and more badass hours. He managed to become a Name through his own merit (though obviously with aid from The Grail, because she seduced him in order to rip his heart out), with one author even being like "He went through the Peacock door, which isn't ideal, but there was no other way and he earned it". Also, dude just wants to jam out.
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Jun 20, 2018 03:00
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I noticed that the newest patchnotes said mod support was now semi-official, so i had a look and everything seems to be quite straightforward. Per the thread's complaints that i share, i whipped up a quick hack that should cut the tick timer on research and explorations drastically. steam>steamapps>common>cultist simulator>cultistsimulator_data>streamingassets>content>core, replace the 'recipes' folder with this one, and if the game is running, turn it off and back on again. As the readme in there suggests, make sure you keep a copy of both your savegame and the old recipes folder. I did leave it so you still get 20 seconds if your expedition is about to crash out from lack of funds, or someone has died, but the increased pace does mean you really need to keep an eye on your bumbling goons... Ceebees fucked around with this message at 05:00 on Jun 20, 2018 |
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Jun 20, 2018 04:50
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Ceebees posted:Someone else already went over the Seven-Coiled and the Colonel / Scarred One / Cartographer of Scars, but the books that turned up in my game gave me thoughts about the Forge specifically. I had the same confusion for a while, trying to figure out the relationship between the Colonel and the Lionsmith. As far as I can tell, a Name is a being that holds some small part of the power of an Hour; some are mortals granted power to act as avatars of an hour, and it may be that some are entirely alien; the Caligine is described as being created thusly: 'At the corners of the Forge, in the bounds of the Mansus, the Glory’s fire meets baser elements.' Though come to think of it, humans might be those 'baser elements'. An Hour can have many Names; they can also have many names. Whether there's a clear delineation between the two is unclear, and may vary from Hour to Hour. I don't think the Seven-Coiled was Edge-aspected. I suspect that it was Knock, or a precursor to it, and it is instead the Horned Axe that was the first Edge-aspected hour. But considering the Horned Axe is now the Guardian of Doorways might mean I've got it the wrong way around, though my theory is that's a niche he found for himself due to the multiple pretenders to Edge. As for the Colonel: as far as I can figure from the retellings shrouded in myth and metaphor, there were once two mortals who aspired to slay an Hour, perhaps out of enmity towards it, perhaps out of desire to replace it. One was a warrior and one a priestess, and the latter covered the former in scars to act as armour to protect him against the Hour he was to slay. The warrior fought the Seven-Coiled - which apparently walked the Earth, rather than residing in the Mansus - and anointed the priestess in its blood, and the two of them slew the Seven-Coiled. They batter down the Stag Door and force their way into the Mansus, and the warrior ascends as the Edge-aspected Tribune of Scars, who would later go by the name of Colonel, and the priestess as the Knock-aspected Mother of Ants. There's a lot missing here. I don't know how Ghirbi fits in, since he says he was part of the 'company' that shattered the Stag Door. I don't know how or even whether they cooperated with the other Hours that slew the Gods-from-Stone. My suspicion is that Moth and Forge were once Names of Wheel and Flint, and usurped them from below, though they could have been pretenders. Perhaps instead they and Ghirbi were part of the same bronze-age tribe as the warrior and priestess, alike in ambition, that stormed the Mansus together; perhaps instead they whispered instructions and advice to the warrior and priestess to help eliminate an ally of their targets. Moving forward a few thousand years: in one of those alternate pasts of the Secret Histories, the Colonel is meddling in Ancient Greece. He's described as a 'tutelary Perseid deity', which generates suspicion of him being linked somehow to Hercules and/or the Trojan War. A Persian travels to meet him, and becomes his student for seven years, and returns to Persia to serve as their Golden General. At this point, he's likely a Name of the Colonel. Later, Alexander the Great invades Persia, and the Golden General will not act against the 'blood of his mentor'. But Darius, King of Persia, tells him Something that shatters his loyalty to both Persia and the Colonel, and he breaks his sword and leaves. An unknown amount of time later, he ascends as the Hour called the Lionsmith, and he and the Colonel have fought back and forth ever since. Darius also tells Something to Alexander the Great that causes him to abandon the campaign and return to Greece with his army. What is the Something? I suspect it's the revelation that the Colonel is an usurper of godly power, rather than one in his own right, told in such a way that it either alienates those aligned with him or makes them desire that power for themselves. Whatever it was, it suggests that this timeline's Darius had access to some pretty deep secrets, and the last we know of Persia in this timeline, it has far outlived that of our history but has come under heavy attack from the Hooded Princes of India, who serve the Mother of Ants. The Colonel's ally seeing to unfinished business, perhaps? Ceebees posted:Anyway, my point was that another book mentions that many of what are now hours were Names of the Sun-in-Splendor. Specifically, it mentioned the Madrugad as being one of its names, presiding over death and entry into the House. (Presumably through the funeral pyre, and ascension to the mansus, death was aspected with the sun; after the Division [which another book comments on being tied to 'the eruption of barbarians and their heathen gods], it became associated with winter.) How exactly the Hours and Aspects are linked and affect each other is unknown, but my theory is that before the Sun-in-Splendour was split, there was no Winter. I also recall reading, though I can't remember where, that before the Sun-in-Splendour was divided the dead didn't end up wandering the Mansus. Did the Madrugad stop doing its job, or is it no longer able to? And what exactly did it do with the departed? Yorkshire Pudding posted:Also yeah, The Grail is a right oval office. I actually think the Thunderskin is probably one of the nicer and more badass hours. He managed to become a Name through his own merit (though obviously with aid from The Grail, because she seduced him in order to rip his heart out), with one author even being like "He went through the Peacock door, which isn't ideal, but there was no other way and he earned it". Also, dude just wants to jam out. When the Hours that usurped the Gods-from-Stone made peace with the Horned Axe, one of the conditions was the destruction of that which would become the Thunderskin, because they were useful to Grail and beloved by the Ring-Yew. But they survived the destruction and re-entered the Mansus by the Peacock Door, ascending as the Hour of unceasing motion. As an aside, this would indicate that the Ring-Yew was involved in the usurpation of the Gods-from-Stone, though it's not yet clear how they fit into it.
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Jun 20, 2018 04:55
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Thunderskin confirmed hard motherfucker. Even the other hours betraying and murdering him couldn’t stop him.
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Jun 20, 2018 05:20
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Yorkshire Pudding posted:Thunderskin confirmed hard motherfucker. Even the other hours betraying and murdering him couldn’t stop him. To Winter, Death is the ending that may be changed. To Edge, Death is the end of struggle. To Grail, Death is the change most succulent. To Heart, Death is just a particularly potent drop of the bass.
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Jun 20, 2018 06:05
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In addition (Enlightenment path) the Watchman is counted among the Gods-From-Light, and he is counted so in error. from what he arose we do not know. His is the Glory. his is the absence of mercy. his is the Watch over the Corpse of the Sun. Against the Mother of Ants, no gates can hold, but to the Watchman, no gates are barred. leading guess as to what the gently caress his deal is is 1. he descended from Glory 2. he was somehow summoned by the horrors of the Intercalate 3. at some point, the four Children of the Sun will become Seven. it is known the Vagabond shall be first, and we aspire to be the seventh. this raises a question. who are the intervening five. the Sun-In-Rags, the Madrugal, the Forge-Of-Days, and gently caress I forget the fourth are the most obvious answers. so, uh. who the gently caress is the sixth.
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Jun 20, 2018 06:15
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Meniscate and Flowermaker
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Jun 20, 2018 06:21
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The Sun-in-Rags, Madrugal, and Elegiast are all aspected with the Ragged Lore, but i don't think they're all Hours of Winter? Some are Names-or-names of the main, no?
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Jun 20, 2018 06:26
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raising my next issue: give me more content for the unsought Hours does Flowermaker even have any content beyond the scraps of his origin story? haven't even seen anyone invoking his rear end.
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Jun 20, 2018 06:27
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Ceebees posted:The Sun-in-Rags, Madrugal, and Elegiast are all aspected with the Ragged Lore, but i don't think they're all Hours of Winter? Some are Names-or-names of the main, no? Sun-In-Rags appears to be main winter, insofar as there is a main winter. (Like Heart, it appears no "pure" expression of Winter exists among the modern Hours.) Madrugal and Elegiast are both Hours- Madrugal a god-from-light, Elegiast unknown. (God-from-blood, perhaps? Kin to Moth and the Red Grail? Longing for what cannot be again?) The pure expressions appear to be Moth, Lionsmith, Watchman, and Red Grail- all the rest of the Hours appear touched by multiple lores.
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Jun 20, 2018 06:33
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Ze Pollack posted:In addition (Enlightenment path) the Watchman is counted among the Gods-From-Light, and he is counted so in error. from what he arose we do not know. His is the Glory. his is the absence of mercy. his is the Watch over the Corpse of the Sun. Against the Mother of Ants, no gates can hold, but to the Watchman, no gates are barred. leading guess as to what the gently caress his deal is is 1. he descended from Glory 2. he was somehow summoned by the horrors of the Intercalate My theory is that he was the Unwise Mortal; that he studied Flint and became a Long, entered the service of the Egg Unhatching and became a Name, and then broke with it and became an Hour and a God-from-Flesh in his own right. He was to be the next on the chopping block after the Intercalate, but he ascended to the Glory and returned as the God-from-Light, the Watchman. Another theory I have is that the Aspect of the Sun-in-Splendour was simply Sun, or perhaps Summer, and the Intercalate created Winter. Slot the two theories and the conclusion I reach is that the Watchman created the Lantern aspect in a recreation of the lost Aspect of Sun, undoing some of the damage of the Intercalate. Ze Pollack posted:(Like Heart, it appears no "pure" expression of Winter exists among the modern Hours.) I would argue the Thunderskin is Heart - the art for it is literally a giant, beating heart. Lantern: Watchman, formerly Sun-in-Splendour? Forge: Forge of Days, formerly Flint. Edge: Colonel, in competition with the Lionsmith, formerly Horned Axe? Grail: Grail, formerly Tide. Heart: Thunderskin, beat the Sister-and-Witch to the punch. Formerly the Egg Unhatching? Winter: Sun-in-Rags, formerly Sun-in-Splendour? Knock: Mother of Ants, formerly Seven-Coiled. Moth: Moth, formerly Wheel. Though it could make sense for Winter to lack a 'pure' representative, due to the Intercalate splitting it among the Sun-in-Rags/Madrugal/Meniscate/Wolf-Wound. I don't think the Flowermaker is Winter, though. Tehan fucked around with this message at 06:46 on Jun 20, 2018 |
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Jun 20, 2018 06:34
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Ze Pollack posted:Sun-In-Rags appears to be main winter, insofar as there is a main winter. (Like Heart, it appears no "pure" expression of Winter exists among the modern Hours.) Madrugal and Elegiast are both Hours- Madrugal a god-from-light, Elegiast unknown. (God-from-blood, perhaps? Kin to Moth and the Red Grail? Longing for what cannot be again?) Thunderskin is pure heart. And pure rhythm. And pure groove.
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Jun 20, 2018 06:43
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If one of the grand victories they release doesn't end up being finding a way to fix or become a new sun I will be so disappointed. That achievement that no one has gotten yet is too good.
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Jun 20, 2018 06:47
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If the Mansus has no walls, are the walls internal, or the walls of the world?
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Jun 20, 2018 07:05
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I'm glad I finally found this thread but I'm also sad that I haven't progressed enough in this game to read all the spoilers. My first game ended because the hunter got me; having no exalted specialists as the history cult kinda hurts when she's both mystic and resilient. Second game as a detective ended quickly because I got 3 dreads within the first 6 turns of the clock. Now that I'm a physician things are looking up but I still can't figure out the stag door's riddle. I'm sure I'll figure it out eventually.
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Jun 20, 2018 08:31
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Verviticus posted:thankfully his writing has changed from taking every noun, adding 2 zs an a q and changing it to a proper noun to something a little more tolerable You keep saying that, but I honestly can't remember anything like that from Sunless Sea. The only weird spelling I can think of is Unterzee, and I have no idea what you mean by changing a noun into a proper noun. Do you mean the thing where almost every person's "name" is Adjective Noun (Irrepressible Cannoneer, Wistful Deviless etc.)?
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Jun 20, 2018 08:50
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EdithUpwards posted:If the Mansus has no walls, are the walls internal, or the walls of the world? I think it's just a pyramid, so you can argue that the 'walls' count as the roof.
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Jun 20, 2018 08:56
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vetinari100 posted:You keep saying that, but I honestly can't remember anything like that from Sunless Sea. The only weird spelling I can think of is Unterzee, and I have no idea what you mean by changing a noun into a proper noun. Do you mean the thing where almost every person's "name" is Adjective Noun (Irrepressible Cannoneer, Wistful Deviless etc.)? Zailors
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Jun 20, 2018 08:57
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dogstile posted:Zailors Specifically only sea terms are handled that way, and its because the first sailors of the Neath were dutch and it became an affectation for anglo sailors b/c of their accent
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Jun 20, 2018 09:06
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Cantorsdust posted:All of Kennedy's games share the same concept of content-gating through a timer or some other grindy game mechanic. In Fallen London it was actions per hour in the browser game, with one piece of content revealed per action. In Sunless Sea it was one "action" per port visit with travels between ports as the limiter. In CS it's direct timers. Yes, it's like the game design is still based on the 'browser game' idea, although shown in a different way.
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Jun 20, 2018 09:19
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Having gone over some of the book lore earlier, it seemed to me as though the Watchman's identity is an amalgam of the Unwise Mortal (making him a God-from-flesh), the Egg Unhatching (the only other God-from-stone to survive, since it escaped to Nowhere?), and some third God-from-light entity, possibly a Name from the Sun's division. The book on Amber goes into the Watchman's triple heritage, and another random book mentions that the Watchman might be the only Hour who would forgive whatever happened to 'the First Egg'
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Jun 20, 2018 09:40
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This is my first advanced game after learning to manage fascination, nemesisises and dread, which let me get into the Mansus for the first time and have advanced past a few gates and have a dozen cultists or so. Is there anything game ending I should be aware of from this point?
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Jun 20, 2018 09:56
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Synthbuttrange posted:This is my first advanced game after learning to manage fascination, nemesisises and dread, which let me get into the Mansus for the first time and have advanced past a few gates and have a dozen cultists or so. The higher levels of the game step up the challenge by giving out more sources of fascination or dread or threats to your cultists—Expeditions take longer and have more challenges, high-level summons carry the risk of escaping and going after you and yours, high-level influences can decay into fascination (and dread, I think) if you fish them out from behind a door and don’t use them. But no, there’s no additional menace that pops up, if that’s what you mean.
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Jun 20, 2018 10:01
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http://weatherfactory.biz/cultist-simulator-the-retrospective/ This was a good read.
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Jun 20, 2018 11:40
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I summoned a thing. It has a timer. Then I noticed you can do... this?  Is this a good terrible idea?
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Jun 20, 2018 13:51
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Works fine. I like to do that with Names. A legmass, though, you can summon them with Fascination or Fleeting Memories. Never any need to chain summon those.
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Jun 20, 2018 14:04
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Good idea. you can do that to gain better summons too. Sacrifice an easy summon for something more powerful.
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Jun 20, 2018 14:35
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