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The characterization of orcs and especially goblins in Prac Guide is just so good. Robber might just be my favorite character in all of fiction. 
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Jun 19, 2018 16:49
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I really am going to have to read Prac Guide soon.
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Jun 19, 2018 17:33
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PetraCore posted:I really am going to have to read Prac Guide soon. I had been saying that for like the past year and my only regret is not starting it sooner.
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Jun 19, 2018 17:35
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The Shortest Path posted:The characterization of orcs and especially goblins in Prac Guide is just so good. Robber might just be my favorite character in all of fiction. Robber really knows how to enjoy the simple things in life.
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Jun 19, 2018 18:15
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The Shortest Path posted:The characterization of orcs and especially goblins in Prac Guide is just so good. Robber might just be my favorite character in all of fiction. The one thing about Orcs/Goblins in Prac Guide is that they seem pretty much directly ripped from the Orcs/Goblins (particularly Goblins) of WoW lore (which might also be based on the ones from Warhammer, but I don't know much about Warhammer). Same kinda goes for the whole "gnomes are associated with high technology" thing.
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Jun 19, 2018 19:17
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WoW Goblins are all about greedy capitalism (and lovely New York Jew stereotypes  ), Prac Guide goblins are psychotic murderhobos. They have some overlap with the "really loves blowing poo poo up" parts but their respective takes on that are different too.Also the characterization of individuals is way better in Prac Guide rather than everyone being just a slightly different take on the same set of racial caricatures like [comprehensive list of every WoW character] I really wanna learn more about Gnomes other than the "completely obliterated a civilization that dug too deep into science" bit.
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Jun 19, 2018 19:38
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I just don’t understand how orcs in prac guide can survive. 1. There are a lot of orcs. 2. They are all carnivores only. 3. They are huge. 4. They love conflict. These are hard to combine into any functioning civilisation.
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Jun 19, 2018 19:54
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By breeding fast and killing each other a lot up until they got enslaved by the Praesi, I'm assuming.
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Jun 19, 2018 20:05
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Speaking of Gobbos, the latest Wandering Inn is pretty great. The evil necromancer Goblin Lord just wants a home for goblins where they aren't monsters scrapping for survival, similar to Rags. It also brings up that we don't know what is motivating Az’kerash.
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Jun 19, 2018 20:45
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Affi posted:I just don’t understand how orcs in prac guide can survive. Luckily this world has a ton of this stuff called "magic". This lets you come up with a way to handle all the stuff like "carnivores only", breeding rates, time to grow up, etc. Then you're just looking at a situation where their warring on each other acts as a sort of natural suppression on their population size.
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Jun 19, 2018 20:46
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Tom Clancy is Dead posted:Speaking of Gobbos, the latest Wandering Inn is pretty great. The evil necromancer Goblin Lord just wants a home for goblins where they aren't monsters scrapping for survival, similar to Rags. It also brings up that we don't know what is motivating Az’kerash. I found explanation for why Redfang cannot be a Goblin Lord some what more interesting actually. The goblins seem more and more alien.
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Jun 19, 2018 20:56
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I haven't read older chapters in a while, but wasn't the history of the Orcs that they had a pretty expansive culture before they were broken by the Miezan Empire (precursor of Praes)? And it was only after that massacre that they became the blood thirsty tribal people that we see in present day?
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Jun 19, 2018 20:58
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Small Wandering Inn spoiler from today's Patreon chapter, just a passing historical mention not a plot point: It is mentioned that the Goblin King landed on Izril's shores with his armies during the Second Antinium War, 1 million goblins strong. I had previously been under the impression that Velan the Kind was an Izril native. I wonder what that goblin key is all about? I assume that it opens something on Izril or why else would the goblins invade? The secret goblin history is fascinating and I hope it lives up to the buildup. My guess is that they are the corrupted Elves
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Jun 19, 2018 21:06
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Question about the latest Ward Am I getting this whole Kingdom Come business straight? His power allows him to burst into an explosion of gore, and anyone that viscera touches is then able to be controlled by him. He can't revert the process by force apparently, and has to wait for some arbitrary time limit to reform his normal body. So these secret bad dudes have kidnapped him, forced him to use his power on a bunch of people, and are now using THOSE people as human walkie-talkies by taking advantage of Kingdom Come's sensory awareness of all of his thralls. He feels everything the thralls feel, and so this dude that Victoria and crew find is just a normal dude and he has been locked in this cabin and forced to starve to death. KC said gently caress that poo poo, and tried to make him kill himself, but the heroes showed up just in time. Did I parse what happened correctly?
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Jun 19, 2018 21:58
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Pussy Quipped posted:Question about the latest Ward That seemed pretty much how it shakes out to me. Though instead of a time limit, he says that he "can’t disconnect my power from victims like this. They won’t let me." So either a standard leverage or a power based thing (probably power based). He can walkie-talkie across dimensions, which is something that we've been shown as a limit in a couple spots (like the communication trails not being able to go through the portals).
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Jun 19, 2018 22:58
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Affi posted:I just don’t understand how orcs in prac guide can survive. "Basically steppe nomads" would be my guess.
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Jun 19, 2018 23:42
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Milky Moor posted:don't do this to me friend
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Jun 19, 2018 23:56
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this broken hill posted:reprehensible bullshit and trash yeah, but do you have any input that isn't praise?
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Jun 20, 2018 05:29
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PracGuide: So looks like the Red Flower Vales is going well, but that's actually a bit worrying since the first part of a villain's plans tend to succeed. I hope Champion dies. I am uncertain whether the Proceran force led by Pappenheim actually knows the force at the Stairway was driven back. The Praesi have better and faster methods of communicating information after all.
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Jun 20, 2018 05:44
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SerSpook posted:PracGuide: So looks like the Red Flower Vales is going well, but that's actually a bit worrying since the first part of a villain's plans tend to succeed. I hope Champion dies. I am uncertain whether the Proceran force led by Pappenheim actually knows the force at the Stairway was driven back. The Praesi have better and faster methods of communicating information after all. Man I liked Champion until now 
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Jun 20, 2018 08:07
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navyjack posted:Man I liked Champion until now I mean, this does set up her hide literally becoming part of Catherine's cloak. What's a little flaying between enemies, ya know?
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Jun 20, 2018 08:49
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ZypherIM posted:Luckily this world has a ton of this stuff called "magic". This lets you come up with a way to handle all the stuff like "carnivores only", breeding rates, time to grow up, etc. Then you're just looking at a situation where their warring on each other acts as a sort of natural suppression on their population size. I like a dab of realism in my fiction. I think we all do. Maybe orcs in prac have hosed up magical metabolism? Maybe they photosynthesise to make eating just meat work? Cause they are huge musclebound dudes that ride giant wolves. The logistical complications of feeding them would make armies cry if there wasn’t a workaround.
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Jun 20, 2018 10:57
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The Denali is our friendly civilian miner right? Any way we can spin this into it being the corporations fault for not listening to our commanders? “We had a plan but because they wouldn’t listen we had to scrap it and go straight for the exit?”
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Jun 20, 2018 11:00
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Affi posted:I like a dab of realism in my fiction. I think we all do. Maybe orcs in prac have hosed up magical metabolism? Maybe they photosynthesise to make eating just meat work? Actually that's one of the critical problems that the Legions of Terror had prior to the Reforms. Basically, keeping orcs and their mounts fed had a hugely prohibitive cost and difficulty involved. Because of this, Callow always had a huge advantage in terms of cavalry. This also led to orcs being the first sacrifices used and being used as expendable fodder in battles. The quicker they die, the less of them you have to feed, and they also have a tradition of scavenging the dead for food by way of devouring them. I'm not 100% on how they manage it now, but I suspect it has to do with the fact that proper Legionnaires are all about emphasizing quality over anything else. It isn't really unexpected for a Legion of Terror in a proper defensive position to fight off forces twice their size or more, even without Named superiority or even with Named inferiority. Each Legion is almost certainly insanely expensive to field and keep supplied compared to other forces, hell the main reason Praes needs to take and hold Callow in the first place is so Praes and their armies can be fed. If you are already investing considerable resources in training them, you become a lot more willing to further invest in them to keep them fed and morale high.
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Jun 20, 2018 11:18
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SerSpook posted:Actually that's one of the critical problems that the Legions of Terror had prior to the Reforms. Basically, keeping orcs and their mounts fed had a hugely prohibitive cost and difficulty involved. Because of this, Callow always had a huge advantage in terms of cavalry. This also led to orcs being the first sacrifices used and being used as expendable fodder in battles. The quicker they die, the less of them you have to feed, and they also have a tradition of scavenging the dead for food by way of devouring them. We know that the Goblins have breeding restrictions and I am all but certain that the Orcs also labor under some restriction even if it's not as straightforward. Before Praes united the clans also periodically assembled under one Warlord and invaded their neighbors.
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Jun 20, 2018 11:49
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I never got the impression that Orcs had huge numbers or were fast breeders or anything. Really I actually got the impression their population was slowly shrinking over the centuries (due to being used as cannon fodder mostly, but still). I If they did have high population growth I feel like that has more to do with them being used as cannon fodder for centuries. As in, they'd essentially get culled leading to a food surplus and a big growth surge to compensate and then the Praesi cull them again when the population starts to stabilize (or before it collapses or forces expansion, depending on available food n stuff).
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Jun 20, 2018 14:41
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SerSpook posted:I mean, this does set up her hide literally becoming part of Catherine's cloak. What's a little flaying between enemies, ya know? SerSpook posted:PracGuide: So looks like the Red Flower Vales is going well, but that's actually a bit worrying since the first part of a villain's plans tend to succeed. I hope Champion dies. I am uncertain whether the Proceran force led by Pappenheim actually knows the force at the Stairway was driven back. The Praesi have better and faster methods of communicating information after all. Seems like they're setting black up to die, no? I know there's the rule of threes and all but I think from a story perspective he has to eventually die and he's definitely being set up. Champion on a catapult was a great idea.
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Jun 20, 2018 14:56
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The ultimate gently caress you to Narrative would be if Black never died during PracGuide and at the end, having delivered many giant middle fingers to the Heavens, he just retires to chill with (what's left of) his crew.
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Jun 20, 2018 21:10
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Cicero posted:The ultimate gently caress you to Narrative would be if Black never died during PracGuide and at the end, having delivered many giant middle fingers to the Heavens, he just retires to chill with (what's left of) his crew. that would be the best result. He already got some kind of extension with Squire transitioning into #404 instead of new black knight so maybe there’s hope.
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Jun 20, 2018 22:14
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loving wretched
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Jun 20, 2018 23:58
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Hey, if anyone is getting into or enjoying Practical Guide, I'm running a forums game of it, come down if you're interested!
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Jun 22, 2018 01:46
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I just read the part where the Calamities are whipping those heroes and Black decides to retreat (because pushing the heroes into a corner before they're used all their aspects is a recipe for losing). That makes me wonder what the recipe for winning in such a situation is. My theory about why they were able to win against Lone Swordsman's band of heroes is that the heroes had already driven Catherine into a corner, so the Calamities were actually filling the role of the saviors in that situation while the heroes had the upper hand. But in this particular case I guess Black's goal was to get the heroes to use all their aspects before they were pushed into a corner? It seems like, as long as the heroes are smart, there's basically no way they can lose; all they have to do is withhold their final aspect, and if they're truly forced into using it they've already won by narrative necessity. I guess Black's goal could have been to get info on their aspects for a second engagement (where they could ideally kill them before letting the fight drag on too long). Heroes themselves seem split into a few categories. Most I've seen are kind of stupid and act like story characters, while the two fighting for the Choirs (Lone Swordsman and White Knight) haven't been that heroic in their mannerisms. But there seem to be exceptions as well (like Thief, who seemed pretty cool/smart). Ashen Priestess and Hedge Wizard also seem...not stupid, but also not particularly deep in terms of their goals (like most heroes they seem to just blindly fight for the Good side). I really hope that we encounter a heroic version of someone like Black or Catherine at some point. It doesn't really make sense for them to be the only Named making a serious effort to transcend the "system." As is, Black/Catherine don't really have any ideological opponents (up until where I am anyways, which is early Book 3); no one they've fought actually has a good argument against them. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 02:43 on Jun 22, 2018 |
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Jun 22, 2018 02:40
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Prac Guide RIP Black https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WChTqYlDjtI
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Jun 22, 2018 16:36
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builds character posted:Prac Guide RIP Black https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WChTqYlDjtI RIP Black https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwV61t_Tec8
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Jun 22, 2018 16:54
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Prac Guide Oh Hanno, you poor bastard. You don't just get their experiences and skills, you get their SOUL too. I'm sure that is going to end well... Far more concerned for Warlock then Black. He's got green heroes facing him up north I have a feeling he will clean the field with them, unless he runs in to Champion and she's wearing that cloak... that won't end well Also, wolf mommy is adorable 
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Jun 22, 2018 18:03
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Okay, so Catherine basically just articulated what seems to be her modus operandi, and I think it works pretty well as a theme. From what I can tell, Creation is more or less guided by Named, even if the Named in question represent varying ideologies. So she wants her role to basically be to stomp down the Named who keep trying to guide things and let normal people guide things instead. The main issue that comes to mind regarding this is that, from what I understand, Procer is a mostly hero-free place. I believe it was stated that heroes are very rare there, but Procer is also kind of a garbage place. There's also the fact that the whole gnome thing is an inevitable barrier against natural/organic societal progression, though I have my doubts the story is ever going to address that.
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Jun 22, 2018 22:03
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Uldor posted:Prac Guide black/championchat: someone noted in the comments that Praes and Black are pretty into necromancy, Captain had an Aspect involving obeying orders, and he's got a vengeance narrative going Champion might not be expecting an attack by her own trophy cloak edit also even with the "killed Captain while she was in monster form" thing, desecrating your opponent's corpse for apparel is... iffy, from a Goodness standpoint
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Jun 23, 2018 00:47
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I've been thinking about the whole "Good wins, Evil loses" thing that Black and Catherine think about a lot. It seems to me that it's a pretty skewed perspective of things to be honest. The same with the whole fact that the God's Below don't intervene whereas the God's Above do. But then you look at the sort of damage a Villain can do, particularly in the first phase of their plans that narratively will succeed. And you start to wonder what the God's Below consider to be a "win" condition for one of their Villains, and what a "win" condition is for a Hero. A Hero kills a Villain, and prevents them from doing a whole lot more poo poo in the future, that's true. But, really, they never actually stop Evil. The Villain, even after they've died, have still done their damage. The Hero, no matter how great they are, can't really fix what's already been done. Yeah the Villain is dead, but that's after a possible literal angelic intervention and thousands dead. This is a conflict that's been going on since the beginning of Creation, presumably, and if Good is always winning then how the hell is it still going on? Further supporting evidence is just in how the cosmology is structured. Each angel is basically a permanent and unkillable thing, the number of them are set, as are the number of heavens. The hells are endless, demons are killable, but they do permanent damage to everything around them, whether its corruption, madness, absence, or something else. Evil doesn't win by killing the Hero, Evil wins by just making GBS threads all over everything. I think we see hints of realization in a number of characters that the way the world works is utter poo poo, and not just because "good always wins" or something like that. But, much like Callow is an eternal battleground between Good and Evil with countless innocents being killed to decide which is better, Creation itself is the exact same thing. Only instead of it being Callow caught between Procer and Praes, it's Creation between Above and Below. Heirarch really seems to grasp this, in part, and I kind of wonder how much of this Tyrant gets with his raging against his fated death. For all he hams it up as a classic evil villain, it's pretty clear at this point that he's much more than that. Catherine also basically gets this, even if she hasn't entirely verbalized it or even fully formed the thought yet. Heck, In Dread Crowned, the Marching Song of the XVth, is basically a call to revolution against all those fuckers, Good or Evil. It's basically the Vorlons vs the Shadows from Babylon 5, it seems like. One faction is all about order and maintaining it, bringing discipline to the lesser races and uplifting them, guiding them along a path. The other is all about testing them, causing chaos, and letting those most fit for survival to survive, and those most able to grasp power be in charge.
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Jun 23, 2018 04:24
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no one on the side of good ever does anything to uplift the other races, thats a property seemingly exclusive to Black and company. Good is all about arbitrary hierarchy
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Jun 23, 2018 04:31
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violent sex idiot posted:no one on the side of good ever does anything to uplift the other races, thats a property seemingly exclusive to Black and company. Good is all about arbitrary hierarchy Uplift is the wrong word, you're right. I'm talking exactly about the arbitrary hierarchy though. It's about laying out the rules that you have to follow to be Good, even if they are often arbitrary and even if they do require respect of absolutely ridiculous hierarchies. The idea being of Order above else, Law above else. Give yourself over to the collective will of the Gods Above, you will be "better" for it. You just have to surrender yourself. Like I said, it seems a lot like Vorlons vs Shadows with people stuck in the middle.
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Jun 23, 2018 04:41
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