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I’m at the pre-gathering for the combined protest against ICE this morning and I can confirm that like 50% of the people here are appropriately goony as gently caress. We’ve got a hospitality worker association, DSA, Working Families Party, and an immigrant rights’ advocacy groups, so this is gonna be good! Edit: somebody spilled the coffee fuckin’ gg no re Lightning Knight fucked around with this message at 14:55 on Jun 21, 2018 |
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Jun 21, 2018 14:47
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Paracaidas posted:The United States has a large, mostly unaccountable intelligence infrastructure: Hell Yeah! I covered this but he didn't say that last thing. He didn't say anything about Flynn in that clip, he agreed that Trump is under attack by some people in the IC, which is completely true, and that it's a bad thing for the IC to leak unsubstantiated allegations to the media for political purposes which anyone who saw what Comey did to Hillary should agree with. You're completely misrepresenting what he said, for some reason. The problem is that Kucinich is 100% consistent in his opposition to our unaccountable reactionary intelligence services, instead of being a partisan poo poo who is okay with IC fuckery that helps his team politically, and that drives partisan shits absolutely crazy. Bafflingly so, because given the aforementioned reactionary politics of the IC when they start interfering in politics it's not great for liberal democrats! VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 15:19 on Jun 21, 2018 |
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Jun 21, 2018 15:16
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I will have pictures later but I will say that the 3 cops they sent are awful jumpy. There’s about 100-150 protestors here, it’s awesome!
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Jun 21, 2018 15:27
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lol kucinich is terrible pick better heros
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Jun 21, 2018 16:08
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like this isn't complicated, when he goes on fox news they are obviously using him as 'one of the good ones' and he knows this and goes along with it because it gives him a platform. this is nothing like a obama or hillary going on and if you think they are similar you are not an intelligent person
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Jun 21, 2018 16:11
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tsa posted:lol kucinich is terrible pick better heros The criticisms I've seen so far are either untrue, or the same stuff that all Democrats do and often to a lesser extent that they do it. He's not my hero but the only well-founded critique is "he said nice things about Assad", so if your position is any politician who ever supports a Bad Guy on the world stage must be shunned out of politics then okay I'm down let's get started on that
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Jun 21, 2018 16:11
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tsa posted:like this isn't complicated, when he goes on fox news they are obviously using him as 'one of the good ones' and he knows this and goes along with it because it gives him a platform. lmao This is what partisanship does to people's brains. Kucinich is hated among Democratic circles because he's antiwar, anti-IC, and pro-UHC. But it sounds bad to say that so you have to make up ridiculous reasons like "he says his opinions on Fox News, but it's okay when we do it"
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Jun 21, 2018 16:13
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tsa posted:like this isn't complicated, when he goes on fox news they are obviously using him as 'one of the good ones' and he knows this and goes along with it because it gives him a platform.
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Jun 21, 2018 16:16
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he was also saying trans people were human back when reasonable liberal orthodoxy (tm) held that they were still grotesque monsters to be shunned and hated, so there's a couple of people yearning for the good ol' days who carry a grudge
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Jun 21, 2018 16:16
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VitalSigns posted:The criticisms I've seen so far are either untrue, or the same stuff that all Democrats do and often to a lesser extent that they do it. Look, all he has to do to redeem himself is sell billions in arms to Saudi Arabia and completely ignore their war crimes. Pretty simple poo poo even Obama was able to do.
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Jun 21, 2018 16:19
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It's interesting that people making the argument "Fox News is the only media outlet in our entire political landscape where anti-war anti-surveillance activists are even given a platform" don't notice the glaring problem they're inadvertently describing.
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Jun 21, 2018 16:23
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BadOptics posted:Look, all he has to do to redeem himself is sell billions in arms to Saudi Arabia and completely ignore their war crimes. Pretty simple poo poo even Obama was able to do. If he'd gone on Fox and made the exact same comments about Netenyahu's massacres of Palestinians as he did about Assad bringing the country together by murdering everyone who resists he'd be fête'd on every mainstream and liberal outlet from ABC to XYZ
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Jun 21, 2018 16:28
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Ze Pollack posted:he was also saying trans people were human back when reasonable liberal orthodoxy (tm) held that they were still grotesque monsters to be shunned and hated, so there's a couple of people yearning for the good ol' days who carry a grudge https://mobile.twitter.com/adamjohnsonNYC/status/865055182652100608
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Jun 21, 2018 16:29
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Well I for one am shocked that noted Trump/CHUD apologist Jon Stewart was poo poo. This is a new revelation and is clearly relevant to Dennis Kucinich being a Fox News shill... why?
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Jun 21, 2018 16:31
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VitalSigns posted:PT6A, can I count on you to be intellectually and morally consistent and join me in relentlessly opposing any candidate who is or wants to be friends with a government that commits war crimes?
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Jun 21, 2018 16:32
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PT6A posted:Well I for one am shocked that noted Trump/CHUD apologist Jon Stewart was poo poo. This is a new revelation and is clearly relevant to Dennis Kucinich being a Fox News shill... why? Kuch was ahead of the crowd with one of the biggest IDPOL shields the dems use. If the argument that we should vote for bad dems is that at the very least they'll fight for LGBT rights, I'd say Kuch gets to go to pretty much the front of the line.
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Jun 21, 2018 16:33
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PT6A posted:Well I for one am shocked that noted Trump/CHUD apologist Jon Stewart was poo poo. This is a new revelation and is clearly relevant to Dennis Kucinich being a Fox News shill... why?
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Jun 21, 2018 16:33
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I'm not going to answer that because I feel it's impossible, realistically, to be a world leader who does not have a diplomatic relationship with anyone who commits war crimes. This is completely difference from being a Fox News talking head who defends loving Assad while in a position of no power whatsoever, with no reason to work with a morally repugnant person.
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Jun 21, 2018 16:35
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PT6A posted:I'm not going to answer that because I feel it's impossible, realistically, to be a world leader who does not have a diplomatic relationship with anyone who commits war crimes. This is completely difference from being a Fox News talking head who defends loving Assad while in a position of no power whatsoever, with no reason to work with a morally repugnant person. pragmatic centrism incarnate: It's Okay When The People I Like Do It
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Jun 21, 2018 16:36
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PT6A posted:I'm not going to answer that because I feel it's impossible, realistically, to be a world leader who does not have a diplomatic relationship with anyone who commits war crimes. This is completely difference from being a Fox News talking head who defends loving Assad while in a position of no power whatsoever, with no reason to work with a morally repugnant person. So much for the principled opposition to war crimes and murderous dictators  So what you're saying is, if a candidate says he will be friends with dictators that's terrible, right up until he gets elected and starts doing it in which case it becomes okay. What a convenient rationale for never holding the people in power accountable for their much much worse crimes while posturing against candidates who would be objectively more humane if they were in power but since they aren't yet that becomes the reason to hold everything they would do against them (no matter how much worse the current guys actually are).
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Jun 21, 2018 16:38
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twodot posted:I don't know that this ever actually happened but let's compare and contrast "saying Fox News is good" and "bombing children". Kucinich has done a lot of less than perfect things, but the whole "being opposed to bombing children" clears a lot of sins. Ah but you see, realistically some amount of children must always be bombed, so it's cool for someone in power to bomb as many children as they like as some amount will always be necessary. But it's never necessary to go on Fox News so doing it
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Jun 21, 2018 16:41
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VitalSigns posted:So much for the principled opposition to war crimes and murderous dictators Hey VitalSigns, when did you stop beating your wife? If you refuse to talk to war criminals, you will be completely isolated. If that were my standard for leaders, I would demand that my own country end relations with the US and its leaders entirely. That would be ridiculous and unhelpful. That being said, I'm pissed off that my government is selling arms to Saudi Arabia, and I strongly oppose it. It's fine to examine these things on a case-by-case basis. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 21, 2018 16:42
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PT6A posted:Hey VitalSigns, when did you stop beating your wife? when your case-by-case analysis proclaims drowning Yemen in blood is less bad than saying Assad's a better choice than Al Queda, people start wondering about your heuristics
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Jun 21, 2018 16:44
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PT6A posted:Broke: defending Barack Obama, since he hosed up by expanding ICE kucinich is just smart enough to recognize that anyone who dares go against the lion assad is struck down like the lowly dog they are
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Jun 21, 2018 16:46
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PT6A posted:If you refuse to talk to war criminals, you will be completely isolated. If that were my standard for leaders, I would demand that my own country end relations with the US and its leaders entirely. That would be ridiculous and unhelpful. According to you we couldn't even have run Obama 2:Clone of Obama in 2016 because the second he said "I will continue my identical predecessor's policies toward our friends the Saudi monarchy" he'd be a powerless citizen with no reason to praise murderous tyrants which is bad, and not a current reigning world leader with diplomatic reasons to praise murderous tyrants which is okay.
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Jun 21, 2018 16:46
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VitalSigns posted:Do you notice that your standards are completely hypocritical. You acknowledge that no president will refuse to talk to war criminals and it would be impossible to oppose everyone who did so on that basis, but you have no problem turning around and using "talking to war criminals" to punch left against someone you don't like (presumably for non-talking-to-war-criminals reasons which you're smart enough not to articulate) National leaders have to deal with situations that Fox News talking head conspiracy theorists do not. Kucinich does not have to talk to Assad or any other war criminal in his current position, which is thankfully one of exceedingly little power and influence, but if he were President, it would be a completely different situation. Being a person in a position of significant power means often having no choice but to select the best course of action from a lot of distasteful options. Being a talking head on Fox means you ain't gotta do poo poo you don't want to do, so we can 100% judge you on your actions.
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Jun 21, 2018 16:49
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PT6A posted:National leaders have to deal with situations that Fox News talking head conspiracy theorists do not. Kucinich does not have to talk to Assad or any other war criminal in his current position, which is thankfully one of exceedingly little power and influence, but if he were President, it would be a completely different situation. So if Kucinich were president, talking to Assad would be okay.
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Jun 21, 2018 16:52
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VitalSigns posted:So if Kucinich were president, talking to Assad would be okay. In an official context, yes, it would be acceptable in a way that talking to him as a private citizen and defending his actions is not.
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Jun 21, 2018 16:53
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VitalSigns posted:So if Kucinich were president, talking to Assad would be okay. quod licet iovi non licet bovi of course, let's forget that it's not just about talking, it's also all the military and monetary support presidents and congressmen stuff into certain autocratic regimes and apartheid states
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Jun 21, 2018 16:55
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PT6A posted:In an official context, yes, it would be acceptable in a way that talking to him as a private citizen and defending his actions is not. Mohammad bin Salman US visit quote:On Tuesday alone in New York City, the prince is believed to have met with former secretary of state Henry Kissinger, ex-president Bill and presidential candidate Hillary Clinton
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Jun 21, 2018 16:57
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Yes? What's your point? I don't approve of that, it's bad.
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Jun 21, 2018 16:58
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PT6A posted:Yes? What's your point? I don't approve of that, it's bad. So we should have immediately stopped supporting that terrible Hillary Clinton then? Or do we need to look at all of her actions and beliefs in the context of her entire person and career and decide whether the sin of being the Saudi's buddy can be overlooked in favor of her other positions and the much much worse positions of her opponent in the election (in this case, Donald Trump)
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Jun 21, 2018 17:04
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Tired: Kucinich opposing intervention in Syria, defending Assad Wired: Obama providing billions in weapons and refueling fighter jets KSA uses to murder civilians en masse
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Jun 21, 2018 17:05
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Basically what I'm seeing is that at worst Kucinich as about as bad as Hillary Clinton on some things, but in many other ways he's massively better, so if we're willing to overlook her flaws and support her over a worse opponent I don't get the hatred for him. While I would prefer someone who's like not Assad's buddy, if the 2020 primary were Clinton vs Kucinich he's better in almost every way.
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Jun 21, 2018 17:09
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If Kucinich were the Democratic nominee for the President of the United States I would support him against Trump. I would not support him, or Clinton, in the primary.
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Jun 21, 2018 17:12
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For those of you who are unaware of PT6A's posting history (because you don't read the CanPol thread), he's a Liberal-come-lately whose "wokeness" is very recent and almost entirely performative - he doesn't actually believe or care about anything he says, save that he thinks he can use it to own leftists (whom he despises,) and he'll criticize even his own supposed principles whenever he thinks supporting them will actually cost him anything. Prior to Trudeau's election, he was the resident gently caress-you-got-mine conservative, who in the past has fantasized about bombing villages of brown people because of the beliefs he's sure they must have. You're better off just ignoring him, he will never engage in good faith or with a consistent set of principles. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 21, 2018 17:18
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PT6A posted:If Kucinich were the Democratic nominee for the President of the United States I would support him against Trump. Is there anyone you could support in the primary. If pretty much any conceivable candidate were asked "should we be friends with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and support their government" they would say yes, which would be a private citizen defending a murderous regime. E: Let me add that while I would personally be okay with that standard, I suspect that you wouldn't if it were applied universally rather than selectively to certain candidates.
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Jun 21, 2018 17:19
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Falstaff posted:For those of you who are unaware of PT6A's posting history (because you don't read the CanPol thread), he's a Liberal-come-lately whose "wokeness" is very recent and almost entirely performative - he doesn't actually believe or care about anything he says, save that he thinks he can use it to own leftists (whom he despises,) and he'll criticize even his own supposed principles whenever he thinks supporting them will actually cost him anything. I made the mistake of engaging him on his tirade against the evils of UHC. Never again.
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Jun 21, 2018 17:19
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Falstaff posted:For those of you who are unaware of PT6A's posting history (because you don't read the CanPol thread), he's a Liberal-come-lately whose "wokeness" is very recent and almost entirely performative - he doesn't actually believe or care about anything he says, save that he thinks he can use it to own leftists (whom he despises,) and he'll criticize even his own supposed principles whenever he thinks supporting them will actually cost him anything. gently caress off, don't drag your fantasies of what you thought I said into other threads. I agree I had a lot of bad positions, and where I've been wrong, I've acknowledged it.
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Jun 21, 2018 17:20
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LeeMajors posted:I made the mistake of engaging him on his tirade against the evils of UHC. Never again. Again, I have never done this, and if you think I have, you didn't read what I actually said. Our UHC system in Canada, though flawed, is a thing I cherish having, and would never give up.
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Jun 21, 2018 17:21
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