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I eat pizza for pleasure and to reassure myself in my worth.
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Jun 19, 2018 21:10
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White Coke posted:If a human isn't involved is it really loving? Just have a human operating the machine then yes it will be.
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Jun 19, 2018 23:57
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Goon Danton posted:In the Acts of Thomas, Thomas doesn't want to go preach the gospel in India, so Jesus comes back in human form and sells him into slavery to a merchant who's headed that way. The apocrypha are the loving best. Given that the Christian community that he founded in India is still in existence today, I can't really blame him, worked out great!
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Jun 20, 2018 03:24
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I'm so mad I had to miss jrode coming back Mods unban him if he agrees to fight me in a Kmart parking lot
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Jun 21, 2018 15:20
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https://twitter.com/classiclib3ral/status/1009716701385101313
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Jun 21, 2018 17:38
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The smartest member of the alt right folks.
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Jun 21, 2018 18:13
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He admits he's wrong, that's better than most. Next step is realizing he's also wrong about practically everything else.
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Jun 21, 2018 18:17
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I'm absolutely sure he will be intellectually honest about that and change his position in future and definitely won't try and forget it happened.
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Jun 21, 2018 18:18
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OwlFancier posted:I'm absolutely sure he will be intellectually honest about that and change his position in future and definitely won't try and forget it happened. Winner winner. The absolute 'best' result from this is Peterson goes home and spends five minutes browsing the Internet for vapid rebuttals to that argument.
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Jun 21, 2018 18:22
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Caros posted:Winner winner. It's not like he even has to do that, his fans already do that for him. Like the guy replying to that with "what if a muslim film producer were forced to film porn". Or this one from an earlier post. https://twitter.com/classiclib3ral/status/1009071860435255296
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Jun 21, 2018 18:29
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OwlFancier posted:I'm absolutely sure he will be intellectually honest about that and change his position in future and definitely won't try and forget it happened. This is beautiful. You can actually spot that split second in which he is thinking "Oh poo poo how do I weasel out of this? Can't go ful Racial holy War with 'yeah, deny cakes to the gimmedats!', can't think of a menaingful difference...uh..." And then he just meekly pretends it's a novel point.
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Jun 21, 2018 21:05
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Isn't the difference that christianity, as interpreted poorly, endorses prosecuting gays, making it a religious freedom issue? Or does race somehow fall into that too?
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Jun 22, 2018 01:20
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baquerd posted:Isn't the difference that christianity, as interpreted poorly, endorses prosecuting gays, making it a religious freedom issue? Or does race somehow fall into that too? I forget where exactly but there are parts that talk about the "stain" of sin. Other parts talk about God punishing people's descendants for several generations. The combination got twisted into "dark skinned people are stained with the sins of their ancestors" somewhere along the way.
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Jun 22, 2018 01:36
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Also it being religiously motivated doesn't remotely change whether it's wrong or not.
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Jun 22, 2018 01:49
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OwlFancier posted:Also it being religiously motivated doesn't remotely change whether it's wrong or not. But it might change the level of cultural acceptance of an idea.
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Jun 22, 2018 02:12
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Saying that a thing is culturally acceptable is a far cry from saying it's right, and he's literally saying it's right.
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Jun 22, 2018 02:17
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OwlFancier posted:Saying that a thing is culturally acceptable is a far cry from saying it's right, and he's literally saying it's right. I'm not saying it's right I'm just saying that that's one of the justifications used. I'm not a Christian. One of the primary reasons I'm not a Christian is because I grew up around hardcore evangelicals who believe that sort of thing. edit: Oh wait you weren't talking about me. My excuse is that it's late.
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Jun 22, 2018 04:56
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baquerd posted:Isn't the difference that christianity, as interpreted poorly, endorses prosecuting gays, making it a religious freedom issue? Or does race somehow fall into that too? https://twitter.com/studentactivism/status/1009838661804978176
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Jun 22, 2018 12:22
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ToxicSlurpee posted:I forget where exactly but there are parts that talk about the "stain" of sin. Other parts talk about God punishing people's descendants for several generations. The combination got twisted into "dark skinned people are stained with the sins of their ancestors" somewhere along the way. That same theory means that the Semitic people are good though, which some of Peterson's fans might take issue with. Because of them being antisemites. There's also the story of the Tower of Babel, which is that different ethnicities must be kept separate otherwise they'll all speak one language and God will be pissed, which is popular among people who also hate pressing 1 for English.
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Jun 22, 2018 12:26
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baquerd posted:Isn't the difference that christianity, as interpreted poorly, endorses prosecuting gays, making it a religious freedom issue? Or does race somehow fall into that too? See Mormon views of Black people.
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Jun 22, 2018 23:25
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Guavanaut posted:There's the 'Curse of Ham', where the 'Hamitic' Sons of Ham, which is to say a whole bunch of independent Afro-Asiatic language and ethnic groups with little in common other than their dark skin, is cursed because Ham walked in on his dad Noah pulling his pud while drunk. quote:And he [Noah] drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent. Wikipedia posted:The Talmud deduces two possible explanations, one attributed to Rab and one to Rabbi Samuel, for what Ham did to Noah to warrant the curse.[5] According to Rab, Ham castrated Noah on the basis that, since Noah cursed Ham by his fourth son Canaan, Ham must have injured Noah with respect to a fourth son. Emasculating him thus deprived Noah of the possibility of a fourth son.
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Jun 22, 2018 23:53
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DACK FAYDEN posted:This is related to libertarianism because, uh... something something NAP. He mixed his labor with his dad.
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Jun 23, 2018 00:00
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Goon Danton posted:He mixed his labor with his dad.  That's way better.
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Jun 23, 2018 00:01
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With reasoning like that they'd make decent libertarians
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Jun 23, 2018 01:40
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Speaking of the human excrement to which this thread is devoted, I cannot begin to tell you how much I despise Ajit Pai, that motherfucker that chairs the FCC. I want to say that I don't approve of anyone trying to harm his family as its not their fault he's a steaming pile of pigshit, but apparently he and his family have been the target of non-violent protest and insults, and some group distributed flyers with his picture and address so that people would hopefully kick him repeatedly in his tiny atrophied genitals. He knows drat well how things are going to degenerate for everyone while huge corporations make more money, but he doesn't care because of his "commitment to a free and open internet" and the huge bribes he no doubt took from major media corps. I'd personally like to stove in his head with a bit of lead pipe, but I'm actually okay with people telling his wife and children how horrible he is because the only way he would ever back off is if his family totally turned against him. Then again, being a libertarian he would probably just decide to buy new children on the free market, realise that that's not legal, and then campaign to legalise it because the free market ensures the purchase of the best possible children at the most competitive prices. Sadly, his wife assuredly has no self-esteem to have married such a piece of human excrement, assuming that he didn't buy *her* off of the free market and he's probably already propagandised his children to be just as terrible as he is. This is why I'm all for forced castration; some people shouldn't be allowed to reproduce.
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Jun 23, 2018 02:14
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Yeah but God isn't real and gay people are, so the harm done to gays is always much greater than the harm done to the religious belief-haver forced to make the cake, whose pain is really just being a loving snowflake. And if God were real (lol) then he wouldn't possibly give a gently caress whether you made a dang cake or not, he's a loving deity, bitch.
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Jun 23, 2018 04:31
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I know that what I'm about to type has been said a million different ways in this thread already but jesus. I sometimes punish myself by reading the Chicago subreddit, which has been a major target of conservative and alt-right reddit users since Trump's presidential campaign. Chicago still struggles with how deeply we've segregated the city in terms of urban planning, institutions, law enforcement, public transit, etc. Discussion of how to address correcting these issues tends to bring out people from those subreddits, especially /r/libertarian. One thing that astounds me about libertarians is their dedication to being so inflexible that they can't even consider the existence of an outcome being positive if it defies their political framework. Here in Chicago, there was a high school student who made the news because he nearly dropped out due to poor attendance from not being able to consistently afford to get to school. Eventually, he received assistance from a local group that works with the Chicago Public Schools to assist at-risk students, hooking the kid up with a transit pass and enrolling him in a school for at-risk students. Dude graduates as the class of 2018 valedictorian with a perfect 4.0. Surely this is a great example that the logic of "assistance breeds mediocrity" might be rather dubious. gently caress no, libertarians came out of the woodwork with poo poo like "why didn't he just buy a bicycle off craigslist?" Maybe a kid who can't afford to ride the bus every day doesn't have the funds to purchase a used bike that will last him year round? Maybe he'd be commuting from areas where it is dangerous to be a lone black teenager on a bicycle? These possible explanations seemed outrageous and offensive to their worldview. I just can't fathom holding such a narcissistic and vindictive political philosophy where one earnestly believes that if someone can't afford something, they deserve to fail, even if that means death.
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Jun 24, 2018 13:45
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Sound Insect posted:I know that what I'm about to type has been said a million different ways in this thread already but jesus. I sometimes punish myself by reading the Chicago subreddit, which has been a major target of conservative and alt-right reddit users since Trump's presidential campaign. Chicago still struggles with how deeply we've segregated the city in terms of urban planning, institutions, law enforcement, public transit, etc. Discussion of how to address correcting these issues tends to bring out people from those subreddits, especially /r/libertarian. One thing that astounds me about libertarians is their dedication to being so inflexible that they can't even consider the existence of an outcome being positive if it defies their political framework. "Why didn't he just" is one of several perpetual refrains we constantly hear from libertarians for, as you note, they view the world as more or less naturally just, with problems only coming from artificial interference in the natural workings of the marketplaces. As such, all problems can normally be solved via individual initiative if you're only clever and plucky enough to do [THING], rather than sit around complaining and waiting for government/society to fix the problem for you. That this also provides tissue paper-thin cover for sneering at the disadvantaged is convenient for them as well.
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Jun 24, 2018 14:54
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Captain_Maclaine posted:"Why didn't he just" is one of several perpetual refrains we constantly hear from libertarians for, as you note, they view the world as more or less naturally just, with problems only coming from artificial interference in the natural workings of the marketplaces. As such, all problems can normally be solved via individual initiative if you're only clever and plucky enough to do [THING], rather than sit around complaining and waiting for government/society to fix the problem for you. That this also provides tissue paper-thin cover for sneering at the disadvantaged is convenient for them as well. I just wanted to say I agree with this for a certain flavour of libertarian as I feel that they fall very generally into two camps, with the other being the sociopathic type which I don't care to discuss right now. I made a post about this a few weeks ago but hosed up and lost it, but I will simply summarise and say that I have run into heavily faith-based libertarians, who not coincidentally can be very religious as well, and they tend to think that markets are perfect just like God, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. I feel that the major fundamental difference, economically speaking, between capitalism and socialism is about fairness. Capitalists either fall into the Prosperity Gospel/Just World Fallacy camp, where they assume that the world is fair and if things go badly for you it's your fault, or the sociopath camp where might should always make right and only the strong survive... unless a stronger force acts on the sociopaths, in which case !!!MEN WITH GUNS!!!). Socialists realise that the world is very unfair and one of the well-known libertarian
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Jun 24, 2018 17:28
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It's interesting how that parallels the way the "race realist" brand of racism perceives the world. I've noticed that their beliefs generally center around the claim that we live in a perfectly equitable system and that white people don't hold privilege. They claim the appearance of privilege is the result of white people embracing superior values, while non-white races diminish their equity by embracing socially destructive behavioral patterns at the core of their culture. "Maybe things would be better for them if they'd take responsibility for their communities and stop having a culture that advocates crime and laziness over personal responsibility." Racist or Libertarian?
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Jun 24, 2018 18:13
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Sound Insect posted:"Maybe things would be better for them if they'd take responsibility for their communities and stop having a culture that advocates crime and laziness over personal responsibility." Racist or Libertarian? As this thread has demonstrated time and again, "or" is a needless distinction.
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Jun 24, 2018 18:56
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Sound Insect posted:It's interesting how that parallels the way the "race realist" brand of racism perceives the world. I've noticed that their beliefs generally center around the claim that we live in a perfectly equitable system and that white people don't hold privilege. They claim the appearance of privilege is the result of white people embracing superior values, while non-white races diminish their equity by embracing socially destructive behavioral patterns at the core of their culture. One thing I have noticed is that there doesn't seem to be much legitimate scholarship and research directed towards how people of different colours react when put in equally dire circumstances. I could just be naïve, but I haven't really seen any and I would posit that being born/thrust into terrible circumstances leads to equal levels of desperate and reprehensible behaviour, regardless of race. It's kind of a no-brainer that the way to reduce theft and violent crime provoked by deprivation is to eliminate poverty and need, but that isn't popular because it costs money. I've noticed that people aren't terribly "progressive" when it requires sacrifice.
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Jun 24, 2018 19:21
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JustJeff88 posted:It's kind of a no-brainer that the way to reduce theft and violent crime provoked by deprivation is to eliminate poverty and need, but that isn't popular because it costs money. I've noticed that people aren't terribly "progressive" when it requires sacrifice. It's passe at this point to bring up Phil Ochs' Love Me, I'm a Liberal, but he really did hit it on the head with his intro line "An outspoken group on many subjects, ten degrees to the left of center in good times, ten degrees to the right of center if it affects them personally." Though that bit about the good times may have been ultimately too optimistic.
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Jun 24, 2018 19:27
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JustJeff88 posted:One thing I have noticed is that there doesn't seem to be much legitimate scholarship and research directed towards how people of different colours react when put in equally dire circumstances. I could just be naïve, but I haven't really seen any and I would posit that being born/thrust into terrible circumstances leads to equal levels of desperate and reprehensible behaviour, regardless of race. It's kind of a no-brainer that the way to reduce theft and violent crime provoked by deprivation is to eliminate poverty and need, but that isn't popular because it costs money. I've noticed that people aren't terribly "progressive" when it requires sacrifice. Higher taxes (for the rich) are basically a universal prerogative for US progressives, and it creates a simple litmus test for whether someone actually wants progressive change or just started labeling themselves as progressive because they got swept up in the Bernie Sanders popularity wave
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Jun 25, 2018 00:12
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QuarkJets posted:Higher taxes (for the rich) are basically a universal prerogative for US progressives, and it creates a simple litmus test for whether someone actually wants progressive change or just started labeling themselves as progressive because they got swept up in the Bernie Sanders popularity wave One of my favourite little moments was when people were really talking about Paul Krugman until he proposed an 80% income tax on very high earners. Let's not talk about capital gains for a moment, but as soon as he said the aforementioned suddenly he was a pariah. The fact that even people of limited means will defend the "right" of the very wealthy to pay gently caress all for tax says something utterly horrible about human nature, and it's especially prevalent in the US. If you can take away 80-90% of what someone has and they are still among the highest percentiles in terms of wealth, then that person has far too much. Of course, politicians won't do anything because they are all selling out to the wealthy and rich people are very good about tax sheltering, hiding money and cheating on their taxes, but why *wouldn't* people with far too much go to extreme lengths to protect their excessive means from going to the people who actually do the work? Having said that, American taxpayers could afford to pay more themselves. America has some of the lowest taxes in the world even for modest earners, and as a result American social programs are very bad relative to other countries. I realise that the death of the middle and working classes has shrunk the tax base and moved wealth to the few grossly overprivileged who don't pay nearly enough anyway, but the ROI for taxes is incredibly high. Everyone loves the civlisation that taxes purchase, they just want to benefit from all of that while not actually contributing.
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Jun 25, 2018 01:51
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One of the biggest ironies of a super high upper marginal tax rate is that it actually does what people promise trickle-down economics does. See, almost nobody ever paid the 91% marginal tax rate. Aside from the fact that almost nobody actually made enough money to get to that point there was a fun little thing where you could just not pay taxes on money if you reinvested it. So there was a huge drive to write off as much money as possible in that bracket by reinvesting it which, lo and behold, created jobs! When you cut the upper marginal tax rate to the bone or don't tax huge piles of savings then the super rich start hoarding money. That makes it just kind of vanish. Then they use it to buy politicians, set up tax havens, refuse to share, and just stagnate everything. There's a concept that people ignore called "velocity of money." A dollar isn't just a dollar; a dollar that is spent has velocity. A dollar sitting in a rich guy's bank account that won't be used for anything, ever has a velocity of zero. Of course the other side of it is that temporarily embarrassed millionaires quote mixed with the fact that most people don't understand how marginal tax rates works, largely thanks to deliberate misinformation. Absolutely nobody takes home less if they make more yet there's this nonstop barrage of "but but but tax brackets!!!! When you become rich you'll be working so ultra mega hard to pay stupid amounts of taxes to pay for those who don't work!!!!" ...that isn't how marginal tax rates work. At all.
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Jun 25, 2018 02:31
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JustJeff88 posted:One thing I have noticed is that there doesn't seem to be much legitimate scholarship and research directed towards how people of different colours react when put in equally dire circumstances. I could just be naïve, but I haven't really seen any and I would posit that being born/thrust into terrible circumstances leads to equal levels of desperate and reprehensible behaviour, regardless of race. It's kind of a no-brainer that the way to reduce theft and violent crime provoked by deprivation is to eliminate poverty and need, but that isn't popular because it costs money. I've noticed that people aren't terribly "progressive" when it requires sacrifice. It's interesting because this particular issue has been a subject of urban sociology within the Chicago School, some of which is now considered dubious. One particular theory is "Subculture of Violence" which is a favorite of racists because they think it means "rap music and thugging," but the theory itself was based around North vs South homicide rates, which were higher in the South regardless of race. They suggested that the lower end of the class spectrum might subculturally hold violence as an ideal method of conflict resolution. We definitely struggle here in Chicago with public perception of progressive policies, and it doesn't help that we've become a target of right wing political efforts to suggest that leftist policies have failed and the solution is greater militarization of our police on the south side, with exponentially harsher punishments for criminals. There was an at-risk youth program that has had enormous success in diminishing violent crime among youth and we had people whose only question was "Wouldn't it be cheaper to just put them in jail?"
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Jun 25, 2018 03:56
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The idea that some people don't understand tax brackets is insane to me, it's the easiest loving idea to grasp.
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Jun 25, 2018 03:57
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OwlFancier posted:The idea that some people don't understand tax brackets is insane to me, it's the easiest loving idea to grasp. It requires a basic understanding of math in a nation full of people proud of how ignorant they are. Granted there are a lot of people that absolutely refuse to believe that America's tax rates actually do in fact work as marginal tax rates. They always have that one story about a coworker or cousin they had that totally got an enormous raise and took home less money so that completely invalidates any arguments. When really what probably happened was that they got a huge raise then didn't up their withholding enough and had to pay a big blob of money on tax day. It's mathematically impossible to take home less money by increasing your income but there's just no explaining that to people.
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Jun 25, 2018 04:08
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OwlFancier posted:The idea that some people don't understand tax brackets is insane to me, it's the easiest loving idea to grasp. Yeah, I had to explain a to a few people who worked in high level insurance jobs that handle a lot of financial stuff how tax brackets work. They were super worried if their bonus was "too big" that year they'd be bumped into a new tax bracket and actually lose more money than they gained. One lady was absolutely incredulous at my explanation that only income made beyond the amount of the previous bracket would be taxed at the next bracket. She said she'd have to "look into that". These are management level people handling millions of dollars and taking home six figures.
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Jun 25, 2018 05:01
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