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alg posted:Haven't basically all their Kickstarters failed? I expect part of the draw is going to be "Cam Banks doing a 2E Marvel Heroic-inspired system" as much as "Sentinels of the Multiverse"
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Jun 23, 2018 15:46
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I remember seeing those Robotech games last year at PAX Unplugged. I wasn't able to try them but there was a 2ft tall cardboard battle-mode Macross game piece that looked rad as hell.
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Jun 23, 2018 15:48
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I'd like a good superhero RPG so I'll keep an eye on it, but if SotM's card game is anything to go by I'm not expecting a lot
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Jun 23, 2018 15:54
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drrockso20 posted:OSR as a movement is still chugging along despite various highs and lows Alien Rope Burn posted:GenCon looks to be chugging ahead with a lot of perfectly respectable supplements and expansions for existing games. TG as an Industry: Everything is chugging. I'm laughing that Invisible Sun is 'high profile', our standards are so low in this industry. Hey, did you hear? The guy whose standout traits include 'adequate at marketing', and 'usually completes his projects' is making another mediocre game, and this one costs even more than D&D.
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Jun 23, 2018 15:59
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I'm slowly working my way through all the various 4E retroclones and derivatives I'm interested in playing. Cool, which ones are noteworthy?
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Jun 23, 2018 16:07
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Harmony Gold is pretty cooperative with their licensees, I only heard largely positive things from one of the Palladium Robotech writers in working with them. That is, of course, completely divorced from issues like spurious lawsuits, copyright trolling, and alleged money laundering, but they seemingly aren't that hard to work with if you're handing them money. I'm almost done with a Macross Frontier and Delta viewing. You should hate them even more for keeping those shows from the US market. On the plus side, Funimation has Star Blazers 2202 dubbed and subbed, and it's good !
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Jun 23, 2018 16:08
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Zurui posted:I took a look at the rules for Ryuutama and I like...about half of it. The journey rules are great and the dragon stuff is cool but the character and combat rules are kind of an uninspired D&D-alike. You basically pick a Job which gives you noncombat bonuses and then a Class (Fighter/Rogue/Wizard). Yeah, this was my take as well.
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Jun 23, 2018 16:08
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Can you really call 4e-likes "retroclones"? It's been less than 4 years since 5th came out.
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Jun 23, 2018 16:11
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I think a lot of it is Sentinels of the Multiverse not having a big draw as a setting outside of devotees of the board game. I've got pretty mixed feelings about Marvel Heroic as well, I like some of the structural stuff with how it handles scenes and plots probably better than the system itself. The preview game art looked... like Sentinels of the Multiverse looks. Der Waffle Mous posted:I wasn't able to try them but there was a 2ft tall cardboard battle-mode Macross game piece that looked rad as hell. Yeah, that was a neat gimmick. The game itself didn't grab me per se, though, I'm not as big into coop games and it seemed really fiddly, with a bunch of meters and decks to track.
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Jun 23, 2018 17:16
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What makes 4e better than 5e? I have only ever played the later (got into this hobby loving late) but I've been having fun with 5 thus far.
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Jun 23, 2018 17:23
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Josef bugman posted:What makes 4e better than 5e? I have only ever played the later (got into this hobby loving late) but I've been having fun with 5 thus far. 4e was designed with a purpose and game-style in mind, that being to base around the late 3rd edition idea that dungeons were a series of combat encounter setpieces that fitted into a given adventuring "day", consisting of 4/5 combats. It's mostly very good at doing that; there are a few weird maths moments and the skill challenge system is a bit of a mess without using one of the revisions, but it's the closest that D&D's come to being a good board game in and of itself (OTOH, this comparison puts it in comparison with actual board games, where it might be less flattering).
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Jun 23, 2018 17:34
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Josef bugman posted:What makes 4e better than 5e? I have only ever played the later (got into this hobby loving late) but I've been having fun with 5 thus far. It is a competently designed, well-balanced, clearly-presented (with good, consistent keywording and layout) evolution of the D&D "formula" that focuses on the things you're meant to use D&D for (class-based characters with customisation options engaging in party-based tactical combat with a side of non-combat mechanics), one which makes a real effort to make every character option equally worth picking and to give every character equal means to participate in the game. Also, the 4E designers didn't take a bunch of known fascist and queer-phobic harassers as "consultants" and then forward emails from their victims on to them when people spoke up about the harassment, unlike 5e. Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Jun 23, 2018 |
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Jun 23, 2018 17:41
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Lemon-Lime posted:Also, the 4E designers didn't take a bunch of known fascist and queer-phobic harassers as "consultants" and then forward emails from their victims on to them when people spoke up about the harassment, unlike 5e. wow 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍 good and cool 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍 real good normal people gaming 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
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Jun 23, 2018 17:51
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spectralent posted:4e was designed with a purpose and game-style in mind, that being to base around the late 3rd edition idea that dungeons were a series of combat encounter setpieces that fitted into a given adventuring "day", consisting of 4/5 combats. It's mostly very good at doing that; there are a few weird maths moments and the skill challenge system is a bit of a mess without using one of the revisions, but it's the closest that D&D's come to being a good board game in and of itself (OTOH, this comparison puts it in comparison with actual board games, where it might be less flattering). Honestly 4e, within the realm of "you control a single powerful unit and battle with your friends against a DM-type figure" board games, is still probably some of the best game design you'll find. It's only recently that those board games have started to become more than random dice fests, often with such fun trappings as making spellcaster archetypes with significantly more options than their sword-wielding counterparts. Gloomhaven is the obvious stand-out example here, and even that had the creator cite D&D 4e as a direct inspiration for his game.
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Jun 23, 2018 18:02
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inklesspen posted:Cool, which ones are noteworthy? When I said slowly I meant it; I've only had a chance to run Strike! and (if it counts) Shadow of the Demon Lord so far. Strike! is very easy to prep for, runs very fast, and I like the combat well enough. Unfortunately I'm not really a fan of how it handles any of the non-combat aspects of the game. There's a little too much FATE in its DNA for my tastes and the "absolutely everything is modular and optional," means that all the GM work you saved on encounter design now has to go in to basically building a game from the pieces. Shadow of the Demon Lord is by one of the lead designers on 4E and plays sort of like a "greatest hits" of 2E, 3E, and 4E with some Warhammer Fantasy RP on the side. It's stretching the definition of "4E clone" quite a bit to call it one, but I'm really enjoying it so far. I do wish it gave everyone powers like 4E instead of using Vancian spellcasting, but it's the most sensible implementation of Vancian spellcasting I've ever seen. Gamma World 7E is built on a 4E framework but with vastly streamlined character creation, very disposable characters, and no "adventuring day" to speak of -- a 5-minute rest restores all your powers and hit points. While understanding that it's necessary for by-the-book 4E, I've never especially liked the attrition-based model of combat difficulty, so I'm really looking forward to giving this a shot. I'm interested in running Valor, if it ever gets bookmarks in the PDF so that I can reference it.  It has you build 4E-style powers from modular bits which sounds incredibly cool if also like it could be a balance nightmare. As I mentioned, I'm keeping an eye on Let Thrones Beware, although the last time I read the rules was a whole bunch of beta releases ago. My brief impression was that it seemed pretty closely married to its setting, which I think is a good quality in an RPG in the abstract, but in this case didn't do much for me.
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Jun 23, 2018 18:28
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4E is the Final Fantasy Tactics to regular Final Fantasy.Lemon-Lime posted:It is a competently designed, well-balanced, clearly-presented (with good, consistent keywording and layout) evolution of the D&D "formula" that focuses on the things you're meant to use D&D for (class-based characters with customisation options engaging in party-based tactical combat with a side of non-combat mechanics), one which makes a real effort to make every character option equally worth picking and to give every character equal means to participate in the game.
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Jun 23, 2018 18:36
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Gamma World 7E is built on a 4E framework but with vastly streamlined character creation, very disposable characters, and no "adventuring day" to speak of -- a 5-minute rest restores all your powers and hit points. While understanding that it's necessary for by-the-book 4E, I've never especially liked the attrition-based model of combat difficulty, so I'm really looking forward to giving this a shot.. It's so good. Specifically the fact that you just reset after fights means you don't have to structure your encounters to keep the players safe, you can just throw hard encounters at them every time, no problem. Plus character creation is simplified enough that rolling up a new character is nearly instant, so players aren't as worried about dying. In fact, death can be great because your next character could be something even crazier. It might be my favorite RPG ever published. Sure when it was published it had an irritating CCG element tacked on, but now that you can buy those cards for 20 bucks from DTRPG, it's basically perfect.
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Jun 23, 2018 18:36
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Lurdiak posted:So that stupid son of a bitch RPGpundit is reportedly trying to start what can only be called D&D gamergate. Isn't he listed in the Special Thanks section of 5e? I just love slow-boil comeuppance. 
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Jun 23, 2018 20:19
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Father Wendigo posted:Isn't he listed in the Special Thanks section of 5e? I just love slow-boil comeuppance. what?
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Jun 23, 2018 20:47
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Sion posted:what? Mearls and company credited Pundit and Zak S. in the Special Thanks column of D&D 5e to try and curry grog favor. It's good to see it's finally biting them in the rear end.
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Jun 23, 2018 21:10
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Countblanc posted:Honestly 4e, within the realm of "you control a single powerful unit and battle with your friends against a DM-type figure" board games, is still probably some of the best game design you'll find. It's only recently that those board games have started to become more than random dice fests, often with such fun trappings as making spellcaster archetypes with significantly more options than their sword-wielding counterparts. Gloomhaven is the obvious stand-out example here, and even that had the creator cite D&D 4e as a direct inspiration for his game. Yeah; the trouble is you have gloomhaven and direct imitators now which all kinda park their tanks directly on 4e's lawn. 4e was good but was hella janky in a lot of places that aren't even written down anymore since Wizards nuked their board. Tuxedo Catfish posted:When I said slowly I meant it; I've only had a chance to run Strike! and (if it counts) Shadow of the Demon Lord so far. You're hitting on some things I found. I definitely like that it does away with gear/progression treadmills though.
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Jun 23, 2018 21:10
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Steer away thread!!!
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Jun 23, 2018 21:19
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Invisible Sun On this subject: I got my BLACK CUBE last week, and we did an unboxing last night. Is this sort of thing acceptable to post in Fatal & Friends? I'm going to be doing a writeup of the game as soon as I've read it all, but I feel like understanding this huge crap-pile requires seeing all the drat components. (There are... many components. Some of them have clear gameplay applications. Most of them are eldritch mysteries.)
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Jun 23, 2018 22:16
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My Lovely Horse posted:4E is the Final Fantasy Tactics to regular Final Fantasy. I'm not sure I completely agree with this, but it would explain why I make bad decisions about playing old versions of FF. Antivehicular posted:On this subject: I got my BLACK CUBE last week, and we did an unboxing last night. Is this sort of thing acceptable to post in Fatal & Friends? I'm going to be doing a writeup of the game as soon as I've read it all, but I feel like understanding this huge crap-pile requires seeing all the drat components. (There are... many components. Some of them have clear gameplay applications. Most of them are eldritch mysteries.)  
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Jun 23, 2018 22:37
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:When I said slowly I meant it; I've only had a chance to run Strike! and (if it counts) Shadow of the Demon Lord so far. you don't understand what a 4e clone or vancian spellcasting is.
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Jun 23, 2018 22:55
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Elfgames posted:you don't understand what a 4e clone or vancian spellcasting is. 
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Jun 23, 2018 23:00
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I just want a nice crunchy game with build variety that isn't also made by the worst dregs of game designing.
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Jun 23, 2018 23:34
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SunAndSpring posted:I just want a nice crunchy game with build variety that isn't also made by the worst dregs of game designing. I hope Unity is out for public release soon. It's lighter than 4e but very similar design ethos.
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Jun 24, 2018 01:20
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Unity sounds interesting but I definitely want to see it played before I make up my mind.
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Jun 24, 2018 01:22
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SunAndSpring posted:I just want a nice crunchy game with build variety that isn't also made by the worst dregs of game designing. Shadow of the Demon Lord basically fits this the best
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Jun 24, 2018 02:36
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About five-ish years ago, I remember a goon posting a podcast episode where a woman talked about the drama in the tabletop community. I can remember some random details, like how some dude's character dying in a cross-community campaign got him pity-laid (lmao), and that the episode number was in the twenties I think. Does anyone know what I'm talking about?
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Jun 24, 2018 10:06
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The old 4e character builder program is still out there with fan-added material from after they dropped support, and mods including a major rebalance that I've been using in my 4e games. (and further moddable for custom races and such, even classes potentially but that'd require a fuckload more effort than we can be bothered with) It's got some pretty heavy and good technical support if you know where to look that actually tends to improve the game compared to other editions. (though it can become a bit of a pain to run a game against an optimised party) And it figures that 5e tripling down on appeasing only the whiniest grogs would come back to bite them in the rear end. A good reason to run 4e is that all the most obnoxious people in the hobby steer clear of it.
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Jun 24, 2018 11:02
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Splicer posted:Something I don't quite get is why FATE point style narrative points don't seem to be seeing much traction outside explicitly FATE derived stuff. Especially as a balancing factor between exotics and mundanes in D&D-alikes and superhero games. For all we mock the 'Disassociated mechanics' crowd (and with good reason) there is a strong advantage to familiarity in mechanics. Also half of RPGs derive from challenge based play rather than storytelling and plot points can make things feel too easy especially if the GM doesn't keep the Fate Point economy tight. quote:Excited to hear more about it, please link when done! Here you go
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Jun 24, 2018 16:03
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5e is also just mechanically not a very good game, TBH. I hear good things about SotDL but 13th Age also gets an endorsement from me. It's got a lot of the best elements of 4e combat-wise but has stronger narrative-driving powers for times you're not in combat.
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Jun 24, 2018 20:57
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I feel like I would love SotDL if they had chosen like literally any other tone or art style for that game As it is I can't bring myself to do anything with it
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Jun 24, 2018 21:23
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neonchameleon posted:For all we mock the 'Disassociated mechanics' crowd (and with good reason) there is a strong advantage to familiarity in mechanics. Also half of RPGs derive from challenge based play rather than storytelling and plot points can make things feel too easy especially if the GM doesn't keep the Fate Point economy tight. e: ditch attunenement slots and replace it with attunement eating into your luck points. Now you can actually start trying to balance low and high magic campaigns in the same system. Splicer fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Jun 24, 2018 |
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Jun 24, 2018 21:25
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I'd say 5e is okay, after playing it twice.
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Jun 24, 2018 21:36
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Blockhouse posted:I feel like I would love SotDL if they had chosen like literally any other tone or art style for that game FWIW the author is aware that the WFRP-ish poopmaggot stuff doesn't float everyone's boat, and is apparently working on an alternate, more traditionally heroic setting book. That said, it's not that hard to ignore insanity and corruption rules and just not include the poopmaggots. Reene posted:I hear good things about SotDL but 13th Age also gets an endorsement from me. It's got a lot of the best elements of 4e combat-wise but has stronger narrative-driving powers for times you're not in combat. The big problem with 13th Age is that the class design really sucks, which is a shame since the core system is pretty solid. 
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Jun 24, 2018 22:25
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Lemon-Lime posted:FWIW the author is aware that the WFRP-ish poopmaggot stuff doesn't float everyone's boat, and is apparently working on an alternate, more traditionally heroic setting book. Serf is working on a cleanup too.
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Jun 24, 2018 22:28
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I really cannot agree that 13th Age combat stacks up to 4e unless you play a select few classes.
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Jun 24, 2018 22:30
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