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EvilTaytoMan posted:And don't forget that village full of idiots that had to have to fight off that supernatural storm on regular intervals because otherwise they'd start fighting eachother. also their greatest rebellion hero just shot a dude while he was bathing, and they sorta still had to idolize him because apparently there was no one better
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Jun 23, 2018 23:17
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To be more serious, I think the biggest problem is that the Bajorans come off as frustratingly passive. If the Prophets say thing, Bajorans accept thing. Things happen to Bajorans. Bajorans speak in terms of things done to them or prophesied to them. The Cardassians are active and are making decisions based primarily on what they perceive as the active interests of the empire. As a result, the consequences of Cardassians actions are more significant. Not really in terms of magnitude, just in terms of being an engaging plot. Cardassians make decisions and experience consequences; Bajorans wait for stuff to happen and then it turns out okay because Sisko did thing. Gul Dukat took his half-Bajoran daughter in instead of kill her, he chose to do that. When the fake Emissary told Kira she was meant to be an artist, she accepted she'd have to leave the station forever and sculpt birds because someone told her to.
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Jun 23, 2018 23:26
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Sisko at Vic's holds together so well when you realize he'd lived the non fantasy version of that period, and also had done the Bell Riots time jaunt, already by that point in the series. He was a dude whose ancestral past had really reached out and touched him in a big way.
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Jun 23, 2018 23:38
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I mean also the Bajorans are just so heavily tied to the Prophets poo poo, which is just so, so, so incredibly lovely and bad Magic orbs and poo poo, it's like a jrpg
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Jun 23, 2018 23:40
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It's hard to do something like Bajor right in a series where the scope of the action balloons so quickly, like either it's an incidental backwater leftover from S1 or it's the improbable Mary Sue pivot of history planet. I'm not sure they balanced it super well.
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Jun 23, 2018 23:40
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Pick posted:I mean also the Bajorans are just so heavily tied to the Prophets poo poo, which is just so, so, so incredibly lovely and bad It's also literally the central point of the entire series, Sisko's arc, and the resolution of the war
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Jun 23, 2018 23:41
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shovelbum posted:It's also literally the central point of the entire series, Sisko's arc, and the resolution of the war yeah and it's loving terrible
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Jun 23, 2018 23:42
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Like the dude isn't and never was fully human, he was some human not born of human kind of deal.
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Jun 23, 2018 23:43
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shovelbum posted:Like the dude isn't and never was fully human, he was some human not born of human kind of deal. some some of "minbari not born of minbari" you might say
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Jun 23, 2018 23:43
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Pick posted:some some of "minbari not born of minbari" you might say Yeah I hate that aspect of DS9, they definitely could've played it straight as him getting sucked into the philosophical orbit of these godlike aliens and their reconnection with the mortal races and being torn between Bajor and duty without Ben Sisko's Special Destiny going on.
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Jun 23, 2018 23:46
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Like jfc he didn't need to be literally ancestrally Of Bajor via ghost possession sex, where the prophets went to earth and did the nasty in the nonlinear pasty
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Jun 23, 2018 23:49
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With the worst part being with him being outside of linear time at the end of the finale, he could have come back the second he left but didn't for reasons.
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Jun 23, 2018 23:49
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Like in college I studied in Israel and saw a ton of dudes get sucked into the whole thing and go all of Bajor or whatever, it's a weird and compelling tale without supernatural literality
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Jun 23, 2018 23:50
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The Prophets/Bajorans might have been a little better as a series focus to me if they either balanced the Science/Religion aspect or went more toward the science end of the scale. As it stands they go full Religion with prophecies, visions, sacred texts, religious orders, chosen saviors, destinies, alien savior sex and all of that when really some giant idiots happened to be nearby some weird incomprehensible aliens living in a wormhole. Some jerks high on jumja sticks and lovely flute music found discarded alien trash and started worshiping it. It's okay because they were actually real gods though.
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Jun 24, 2018 00:19
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EvilTaytoMan posted:With the worst part being with him being outside of linear time at the end of the finale, he could have come back the second he left but didn't for reasons. I genuinely think if you got a few beers into Ira Behr and Ron Moore and asked them "so does Sisko actually ever come back" they'd scoff and say "pfffft no, we just threw that line in there so Avery Brooks wouldn't kick our rear end."
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Jun 24, 2018 02:03
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Pick posted:To be more serious, I think the biggest problem is that the Bajorans come off as frustratingly passive. If the Prophets say thing, Bajorans accept thing. Things happen to Bajorans. Bajorans speak in terms of things done to them or prophesied to them. Most people would rather have Kanar with Damar than hang with the Bajoran joyless shits.
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Jun 24, 2018 02:11
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etalian posted:Most people would rather have Kanar with Damar than hang with the Bajoran joyless shits. cardassians are 1000000% rad and if i were one o them tng folk who what get un-frozen in the future i would make a beeline to anywhere they were hangin out
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Jun 24, 2018 02:14
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Thing is, it's pretty clearly demonstrated that the Cardassian society is, as mentioned, hilariously dysfunctional, their legal system is literally Kafkaesque, we see a few regime changes throughout the show and Garak implies that isn't a rare occurrence. Their dysfunctionality is just in the name of authoritarianism rather than religion.
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Jun 24, 2018 02:20
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Thing is, it's pretty clearly demonstrated that the Cardassian society is, as mentioned, hilariously dysfunctional, their legal system is literally Kafkaesque, we see a few regime changes throughout the show and Garak implies that isn't a rare occurrence. Their dysfunctionality is just in the name of authoritarianism rather than religion. so what you are telling me, an american alive in the space year 2018, is that i would feel perfectly at home??
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Jun 24, 2018 02:27
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i mean "begging for a regime change for my hilariously dysfunctional authoritarian society" is not exactly some sort of absurd hypothetical
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Jun 24, 2018 02:31
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Rumour has it Picard could be getting his own show.
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Jun 24, 2018 02:42
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The General posted:Rumour has it Picard could be getting his own show. I hope it's a sitcom.
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Jun 24, 2018 03:18
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He takes over the vineyard where his entire family burned to death
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Jun 24, 2018 03:44
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Rectal Death Adept posted:He takes over the vineyard where his entire family burned to death It starts with him putting a gas tank into the reclamator.
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Jun 24, 2018 03:49
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Can't wait for Star Trek: Young Picard.
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Jun 24, 2018 03:51
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You think the actor will wear a skullcap, or actually shave his head?
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Jun 24, 2018 03:52
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it's total horseshit that garak isn't in the episode where we find out bashir was born a ding-dong bashir got to watch garak's dad freakin die, i mean come on
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Jun 24, 2018 04:04
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Strudel Man posted:You think the actor will wear a skullcap, or actually shave his head?
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Jun 24, 2018 04:14
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Young Picard had hair. He wasn’t a cue ball until after he killed Wesley’s dad.
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Jun 24, 2018 04:18
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I could get behind an Ensign Picard show if they try to do something a bit different with it. Like sure make it lightly sitcommy without the laugh track, just him and his shipmates on the lower decks, talking poo poo about command, being kept out of the loop (yes I really loved the idea of that episode, okay?), getting into scrapes - and out of them - and learning along the way. Basically give me Star Trek: Scrubs In Space
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Jun 24, 2018 04:44
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They are talking about bringing Patrick Stewart back, not some weird young Picard prequel.
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Jun 24, 2018 04:45
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Pick posted:it's total horseshit that garak isn't in the episode where we find out bashir was born a ding-dong Aww dammit, dammit, dammit! Why'd you have to go and point that out? Man, this is almost as bad as finding out they wanted to have Weyoun and Brunt walk past each other but couldn't make it happen.
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Jun 24, 2018 05:02
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Hipster_Doofus posted:Aww dammit, dammit, dammit! Why'd you have to go and point that out? I think we can at least be happy in the knowledge that they wanted it too and would've done it if it were feasible.
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Jun 24, 2018 05:49
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Bashir's loser parents were underused like Sisko's dad, ordinary people in space are hilarious.
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Jun 24, 2018 06:00
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Hipster_Doofus posted:Aww dammit, dammit, dammit! Why'd you have to go and point that out? Garak was exactly the right person for character moments in that episode, also he doesn't even get interviewed as a friend of Bashir, but Worf does? it's loving glaring 
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Jun 24, 2018 06:01
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I think the deal is that the medical hologram upgrade is a big important project and Bashir wants to look like the best doctor in Starfleet, and a black ops spy and probably war criminal from a hostile foreign power acting as a tailor isn't really the best reference all things considered compared to a famous Starfleet officer. There's an ongoing theme with Bashir with literally how he's groomed as a recruit for the Federation's black ops war crimes agency because he's talented at that even beyond his augmented advantages, and consciously rejects it because while he's willing to cross lines to do what he thinks is right, he values his ethics and sure as gently caress doesn't want to make that his literal job. And he has all these friendly arguments with Garak over ideals, ethics, and pragmatism between Federation/human and Cardassian culture, with both of them learning harsh lessons relating to them. (Garak seems to actually come to respect the Federation for being willing to stick to their ideals doggedly) Ghost Leviathan fucked around with this message at 10:37 on Jun 24, 2018 |
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Jun 24, 2018 10:34
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:I genuinely think if you got a few beers into Ira Behr and Ron Moore and asked them "so does Sisko actually ever come back" they'd scoff and say "pfffft no, we just threw that line in there so Avery Brooks wouldn't kick our rear end." I think they implied as much in the 50 year mission. But I'll accept that the Prophets are dicks as an in-universe explanation.
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Jun 24, 2018 12:45
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simplefish posted:
Technically the Vulcans were peaceful and the Klingons blew up their ship. This happened repeatedly so the Vulcans started killing the Klingons on sight. So technically they never attacked first. It was a logical response to a number of Klingon attacks.
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Jun 24, 2018 17:11
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Bashir's loser parents were underused like Sisko's dad, ordinary people in space are hilarious. I would say that 90+% of mankind are losers in Star Trek. Well those that are not in starfleet and live in perfect peace. I am sure they are conditioned to stand around and just watch as someone else cleans up the mess that just happened.
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Jun 24, 2018 17:19
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Rectal Death Adept posted:He takes over the vineyard where his entire family burned to death Wait, what?
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Jun 24, 2018 17:19
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