|
Nemesis Of Moles posted:I'd honestly suggest holding back on custom books, especially player-made ones, till you've had some more experience with the game. There are tons of custom playbooks that are great and balanced (as someone who sells some custom playbooks I hope so anyway). I couldn't agree more. As a new GM with (I'm guessing) players new to the system, that is not a hole you want to dig yourself into. You're the GM, so ultimately you get final say on what playbooks get used. Maybe ask what kind of style they're going for and we could help you find an already vetted book that fits that style?
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2018 17:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 16:02 |
|
|
That sheet has 5 (6?) starting moves which have stuff like "Possess the mind of another person with just a moments touch" and "Summon player-character powerful Thralls to fight for you". The spells are also wild for Level 1 stuff when you're usually at most dealing 2d4 damage as a spell caster, the warlock can summon an invincible, evil, super horse that outruns all over horses. I'd say this is a lil powerful for standing shoulder to shoulder with the other standard classes.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2018 17:28
|
|
|
Nemesis Of Moles posted:That sheet has 5 (6?) starting moves which have stuff like "Possess the mind of another person with just a moments touch" and "Summon player-character powerful Thralls to fight for you". The spells are also wild for Level 1 stuff when you're usually at most dealing 2d4 damage as a spell caster, the warlock can summon an invincible, evil, super horse that outruns all over horses. I dunno he said he's got a Mage in the party, and that playbook is a WEE bit broke.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2018 20:52
|
|
|
I went to go look for the Funhaver Games warlock playbook and have discovered the absolute glut of playbooks that exist now. A lot of which are the same archetype just made by someone else. To boot, there's tons of inconsistency. Some have drives instead of alignment, some have races and some don't, some have death moves and some don't. And some have some very questionable moves. I can see why a newer GM could get blindsided by a wacky playbook. Edit: Like, what the hell is this? The Tumor Mage? There are some very specific triggers to some of those moves. Overemotional Robot fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Jun 24, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2018 21:46
|
|
|
Overemotional Robot posted:Edit: Like, what the hell is this? The Tumor Mage? There are some very specific triggers to some of those moves. Seems to be an unofficial take-off of the Mage handbook, since I see other more official looking ____ Mage books out there. This one seems...not compelling. NinjaDebugger posted:I dunno he said he's got a Mage in the party, and that playbook is a WEE bit broke. I mean, I really like the idea of the Mage, and anything that moves away from Vancian magic is great. That said, I do recognize that spells unlimited by MP or Vancian prep are pretty OP.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2018 04:04
|
|
|
So I decided that the core playbooks and the Alternatives are kosher, and I'm taking a look at the Priest. There is a move called Invocation:Priest posted:When you call out for your deity's aid in a time of need, choose a Blessing and roll WIS. On a 10+, your deity will intervene on your behalf - the GM will tell you how. On a 7-9, your deity will grant your Blessing, but you will also need to choose a Requirement. The question was raised of what happens if the deity represents death (which is in fact a suggestion on the playbook's character sheet), and the Priest beseeches their deity to raise the dead and attack their enemies. My response was that it depends entirely on the fiction, i.e. they're not raising any dead if they're in the middle of a clean office (unless they just murdered a dude) and it will depend on things like "what's in the area", "is your deity cool with you", "what kind of effect would it have on the target". Fiction first. But if they intend to do damage, do I use their damage die, or grab a couple skeleton monsters and each deal their die? Are they suddenly followers/independent monsters? What if the Priest asks for something outlandish, like "bring death to this entire ballroom full of nobles" or "speed up the heat death of the universe"? Also, it says there "your GM will tell you how" - does this mean that there is no guarantee that the Priest's wishes will resolve exactly the way they want? How much input do they get on the results?
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 01:05
|
|
|
Yup, that's a kinda lovely move. For the most part, good moves are sharp, concise, clear, easily applied, and short on "interpretive" details. This applies to both their triggers and their effects.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 02:29
|
|
|
Pollyanna posted:So I decided that the core playbooks and the Alternatives are kosher, and I'm taking a look at the Priest. There is a move called Invocation: My read would be: they are calling out for their deity's aid. That's the intent. Their deity (i.e., the GM) will decide how they aid them, and on a 7-9, an associated drawback. They don't get to specify, and "the priest does damage" is not on the list of benefits. It should be legitimately helpful, assuming they hit the roll, because they hit a move. But spells are how priests get a specific designated effect from their god, not just calling out to them and hoping for the best. (I'd also examine the fiction to see if they are legitimately in need based on the situation and the personality of the god in question. You don't want to stonewall them on a move they bought, but they also don't get to just call down divine aid at the drop of a hat, and probably don't need to be saved from e.g. entropy or dancing nobles.) malkav11 fucked around with this message at 04:27 on Jun 26, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 04:24
|
|
|
Doesn’t the player get to choose a particular blessing? Does that mean they can’t be like “bring me a skeleton guardian!” and have to explicitly say “I choose blessing X”? Or is that the intent and it’s up to me as GM to let them know how far it goes or what they get? How would I even handle a deity summoning adds for a player? They certainly wouldn’t be player controlled...would they just be temporary followers? I think most of this will be answered in play, but I’m considering clarifying that move to say that the effect is up to my discretion and “the GM will tell you how AND what”.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 14:08
|
|
|
malkav11 posted:My read would be: they are calling out for their deity's aid. That's the intent. Their deity (i.e., the GM) will decide how they aid them, and on a 7-9, an associated drawback. They don't get to specify, and "the priest does damage" is not on the list of benefits. It should be legitimately helpful, assuming they hit the roll, because they hit a move. But spells are how priests get a specific designated effect from their god, not just calling out to them and hoping for the best. Priests don’t have spells, I think - that Invocation move seems to be the primary way they call upon their deity. Would it be their primary damage dealing move, I dunno, but I’m not sure I would call the class a fighting class anyway. Someone who wants to fight under a deity should prolly go cleric or paladin, I think. The priest should be petitioning for indirect help or something. I honestly don’t know what to make of the class. Pollyanna fucked around with this message at 14:21 on Jun 26, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 14:19
|
|
|
As worded I'd say pick from the list and the GM decides details. Of course since the player defines their own god, they get a lot of say in what that god would do ("use the answers"). And they can always preface it with what they're hoping for. So somewhere in between.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2018 19:26
|
|
|
Besides, if you want something big your God will make you work for it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2018 00:06
|
|
|
I'm going to play this with some friends and possibly upload audio of it (buddy wants to practice recording and editing). New players but played plenty of RPGs, we were thinking of using those "evil" playbooks on drive-thru, anyone ever use them? Was thinking of a bunch of pseudo-evil Adam's family-like characters.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2018 01:47
|
|
|
Pollyanna posted:Doesn’t the player get to choose a particular blessing? Does that mean they can’t be like “bring me a skeleton guardian!” and have to explicitly say “I choose blessing X”? Or is that the intent and it’s up to me as GM to let them know how far it goes or what they get? How would I even handle a deity summoning adds for a player? They certainly wouldn’t be player controlled...would they just be temporary followers? I guess on rereading the player does get to choose one of the listed blessings, so they do have a little control. But I still stand by the idea that when you call on a deity, even for a general category of aid, your lowly human sort isn't the one deciding how that aid manifests.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2018 02:39
|
|
|
Pollyanna posted:The question was raised of what happens if the deity represents death (which is in fact a suggestion on the playbook's character sheet), and the Priest beseeches their deity to raise the dead and attack their enemies. My response was that it depends entirely on the fiction, i.e. they're not raising any dead if they're in the middle of a clean office (unless they just murdered a dude) and it will depend on things like "what's in the area", "is your deity cool with you", "what kind of effect would it have on the target". Fiction first. Yeah, you've got carte blanche to run the Priest's wishes wherever you want. "Call out for aid in a time of need" is not poetic nothingness, though, it's legit. Does your Priest have a need that can only be satisfied by the end of the universe or the death of hundreds? Then they can't invoke their deity to get that. It will help if you actually nail down some specifics of the deity in question - scriptures, rituals, personality. On the subject of "animate the dead to serve the living", if that's the way you figure the Priest's prayers get answered, I'd consider looking at hireling rules and granting some skeleton Protectors or Warriors at lower levels, and at level 4 or 5 or so broadening to genuinely free-willed undead after the pattern of Summon Monster.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2018 06:34
|
|
|
Overemotional Robot posted:The GM Camp will be held Quoting myself to remind everyone that the Game Master Camp is still on for Saturday. If you can't make it and have already signed up, please remove your name from the roster of players or GMs. Everyone is welcome to join and ask questions/comment even if they don't play or GM. This is to share community best practices for DW! I will be writing up a guideline for what to expect tomorrow (hopefully) and put that in the Footlocker for everyone to see. If you have any questions or comments, please feel free to shoot them my way. I've gotten a lot of very kind PMs about doing this, so thank you all for the warm response to it and I hope I don't muck it up! That being said, I need some advice on this monster: Voadroch the Gazer (like a beholder, but they can do different stuff in my game) solitary, large, magical, stealthy, intelligent, planar Elemental Beams (1d10+3 dmg); 16HP; 4 armor close, reach, far, ignores armor Instinct: To enslave lesser beings Special Qualities: Levitation, invisibility, telepathy Moves: -Dominate the weak minded -Turn invisible, then strike from behind -Alter their environment with elemental rays -When at Death's door, offer them everything I haven't made a monster in a long time, so maybe I'm missing something. Quick story: I ran a one-shot of Castle Death and my players liked it so much they wanted to keep going. Now it has turned into a Castlevania type of thing where lots of monsters in the castle are all fighting to be the One True Ruler. If they can take the castle, they can have it! Overemotional Robot fucked around with this message at 04:39 on Jun 28, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2018 04:34
|
|
Saturday, June 30th at 2-4 pm (PDT) / 3-5 pm (MDT) / 4-6 pm (CDT) / 5-7 pm (EDT)
|
Oh, poo poo, I need to get a new microphone. And, um, actually sign up to GM, I think. poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2018 04:39
|
|
|
I need to get a good mic and a new laptop, myself. For now, though, my lovely MBP will have to do. Is the Discord up yet?
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2018 13:51
|
|
|
My webcam and mic are from like 2008, sooo
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2018 15:28
|
|
|
Overemotional Robot posted:That being said, I need some advice on this monster: I love the "When at Death's door, offer them everything" move. It's really slick. I also have two notes: 4 armor is a lot of armor! For people with lower damage dice, it's a pretty large roadblock. Instead, since he's supposed to be dominating the weak minded, I'd make it so that he's accompanied by some of his mental slaves and give him a move like "Sacrifice a slave to protect himself." Second, invisibility and mental slaves and altering the environment with elemental rays is a really big bag of tricks. Personally, I'd drop the invisibility part to focus more on the other two, but that's more personal preference.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2018 15:34
|
|
|
Overemotional Robot posted:My webcam and mic are from like 2008, sooo I have no webcam at all though.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2018 16:09
|
|
|
Yeah, no webcam here. Sorry.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2018 16:14
|
|
|
I have a webcam I could use, but I'm not gonna because it would mean I can't be naked. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2018 16:39
|
|
|
Capfalcon posted:I love the "When at Death's door, offer them everything" move. It's really slick. Yeah, I was hesitating with the invisibility thing myself. They slept in the castle and he invaded their dreams, so maybe I'll focus more on domination of the mind. Right now he's locked in a magical prison inside the castle, which they need to get into if they want a key for another part of the castle, so I'm thinking when they unlock it and go down to face him he can call on the bugbears and goblins he's been controlling up above. I was messing around with the monster maker here and it just kept adding armor, but yeah, it kind of felt tough to me too. How about this: Voadroch the Gazer solitary, large, magical, intelligent, planar Elemental Beams (1d10+3 dmg); 16HP; 2 armor (to represent a magical shield, maybe even take it to 1?) close, reach, far, ignores armor Instinct: To enslave lesser beings Special Qualities: Levitation, telepathy Moves: -Use the weak minded as a shield (this gives me the opportunity to attack the players with it) -Descend my slaves, descend! -Harry their movement with elemental rays -When at Death's door, offer them everything Ilor posted:I have a webcam I could use, but I'm not gonna because it would mean I can't be naked. Pollyanna posted:Yeah, no webcam here. Sorry. Comrade Gorbash posted:Having some issues with my mic but I think I should have them sorted by Saturday. It is, however, a good mic! I don't think not having one would be an issue. I am actually starting to question if we even need Roll20, since I do theater of the mind stuff, myself. I'd be interested in hearing what some of the GMs running stuff think.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2018 17:28
|
|
|
I personally don't see the need for anything beyond voice comms, but I'm old-school.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2018 18:19
|
|
|
Overemotional Robot posted:Quoting myself to remind everyone that the Game Master Camp is still on for Saturday.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2018 18:30
|
|
|
Would you like to trade out with me, then? I was really looking to just facilitate, which is why I didn't make a character either. I'd really like to spend my time taking notes and such, so that works out if you want.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2018 18:57
|
|
|
OK, cool, I'll slide into that slot, then.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2018 18:59
|
|
|
Roll20's main benefit for something like DW is dropping stuff into a shared space for reference, so if we dropped it I think we'd need a replacement.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2018 20:24
|
|
|
What stuff were you planning to drop in? And would the Google GM Camp Footlocker that ORobot already set up be sufficient?
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2018 21:27
|
|
|
I would like to be able to see player's character sheets primarily. I think Discord links can probably suffice for the rest.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2018 21:29
|
|
|
That's something I'm trying out tonight in my own session. I'm trying to figure out exactly how much a GM needs to know about a player's character sheet at any point in time, and I'm gonna try and go minimal this time - all I really need to know about are the moves they've chosen so I know when they've been set off, and the rest they can handle. At least, that's my theory.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2018 21:42
|
|
|
Pollyanna posted:I'm trying to figure out exactly how much a GM needs to know about a player's character sheet at any point in time, and I'm gonna try and go minimal this time - all I really need to know about are the moves they've chosen so I know when they've been set off Something I did in my last session, which I had never tried before, was under my notes for each character I wrote the trigger part of each move they had. I found it helped me easily decide if they trigger and in a couple of scenarios helped me remind some new players that they had a move for something specific.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 00:18
|
|
|
I had that second DW session last night! A few observations: — 1. Based on the encouragements and bans of the group (thx whoever suggested that!), I used a thematically appropriate dungeon starter to get us rolling. Unfortunately, I think it limited me more than anything - even with my minor tweaks to the dungeon, I felt the need to railroad/guide the group to a particular destination, rather than simply let them have at it. I didn’t get to innovate or create much, just try to fit some thoughts into a pre-conceived framework. It was kinda made worse by the dungeon starter having a clear goal and physical structure...anyway, I don’t think I’ll use one again. 2. For a while at the beginning it looked like we’d only have two players, so we recruited a couple pickups - and then one of the other players showed up, so we ended up with a five-man party. Which went better than I expected it to be, but it definitely felt like I was spinning quite a few plates. I’m getting a hang of using the spotlight, but the game often gets away from me as the characters all act and declare their independent intents and go off on their own. It’s like herding cats, I swear. I often had to triage whose actions I was going to resolve first, which led to confusion on what was happening at any point in time, and sometimes character actions were invalidated by how another character changed the situation. I need to be able to resolve a bunch of actions that basically happen at the same time - how do I make my game thread-safe? 3. Due to using a dungeon starter, I felt like I couldn’t exercise my improv muscles as much. There weren’t really any NPCs, just a couple lizardmen and a corpse. Whatever I thought up had to both fit in the dungeon starter’s map/implications, and the story as it had developed. I’m really not good yet at keeping track of how the situation has changed - e.g. I forgot the party had buried the corpse when I tried to bring it back to life as a zombie as part of a backfired spell. My most common phrase was “as you do that, you see- wait poo poo I can’t do that, gently caress! Uhhhh  ”4. megane and gnome7’s playbooks for Mage and Priest are cool and all, but they’re hard to reconcile with how I thought I’d be arbitrating the game. These two playbooks basically say “you can do whatever as long as it makes sense narratively”, and that’s...pretty unbalanced in terms of who can affect the world and how? I think? I’m all for ditching Vancian casting, but poo poo like the Priest’s invitation spell required a lot of on-the-spot arbitration that didn’t always work out well, which leads to my next point... 5. Narrative power, metagaming, and handling player disagreements. Towards the end of the session, the Abyssal Priestess’s player expressed their desire to take the magical item the party found and consecrate it to their character’s deity, which would destroy the magic in it. This is thematically appropriate for the character but I was unsure whether the character should really have the power to do something like that - the rules didn’t say they couldn’t, though. Upon hearing this intent, the Storm Mage’s player refused to give the treasure to Abyssal Priestess. AP’s player accused SM’s player of metagaming, i.e. acting on OoC information. At this point, it wasn’t clear whether this even was OoC or not. The players argued between each other, and I had to step in and start the exchange over narratively - with AP simply asking for the magical item - but no dice, SP refused to have it over. More arguments led to a ragequit (though we had also gone way over our allotted time too), and I decided to just end the session there. Honestly, I don’t think I will accept the alternative playbooks again, at least not until I have a better grasp on GMing. From what I can tell, you can’t just let players do whatever the gently caress they want, cause you get bullshit disagreement like that. The alternative playbooks put way too much narrative power in their players’ hands, and as written kinda makes them godmode. Vancian casting and explicit spells are honestly preferable to this. — All in all, a very instructive experience, and despite my missteps I’m looking forward to getting better at GMing. That said, there’s a bunch of other games I want to play too (Blades in the Dark, Fellowship, Burning Wheel maybe), so I don’t know if I’ll run another Dungeon World session soon. Plus, the players didn’t seem to be too happy to be playing Dungeon World, and at least one said they didn’t want to play another session of it, which given my performance I totally understand  I also still need to get better at handling and coordinating a group...that’s the sketchiest/hardest part.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 15:22
|
|
|
One thing to remember with Dungeon Starters is they're not supposed to be run like an adventure from a D&D supplement, they're the barest bones you're supposed to hang your own schtick from. They may have no NPCs in them, but that doesn't mean you can't have NPCs in them, if that makes sense. They're more like a reference guide for describing the next Thing.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 15:39
|
|
|
Pollyanna posted:4. megane and gnome7’s playbooks for Mage and Priest are cool and all, but they’re hard to reconcile with how I thought I’d be arbitrating the game. We have repeatedly tried to steer people away from those playbooks in this thread. Mage was later broken down into a bunch of superior and more focused playbooks like time mage and ice mage. Mage and Priest are massively broken in even slightly competent hands.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 15:39
|
|
|
Yep, I’ve learned my lesson there. Nemesis Of Moles posted:One thing to remember with Dungeon Starters is they're not supposed to be run like an adventure from a D&D supplement, they're the barest bones you're supposed to hang your own schtick from. They may have no NPCs in them, but that doesn't mean you can't have NPCs in them, if that makes sense. They're more like a reference guide for describing the next Thing. I understand that in concept, but I don’t think I took that far enough. If I do use a starter again, I’ll try and treat it as more of a suggestion...though there is some amount of influence from what’s already there. I guess it’s a matter of practicing my GM goals and agenda.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 15:58
|
|
|
Absolutely, I find its often a matter of confience too, something you'll build the more you play, you gotta be willing to trust that you know best what to do next.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 16:14
|
|
|
Alright, I signed up for the GM Camp. If there are too many players at this point I'm okay with just watching, too. I thought of another thing I hope is addressed during the camp so I'll bring it up now. I really hope we see good applications of the different ranges in combat. I had a lot of trouble determining how to make them matter/work, especially in Theater of the Mind style play.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 16:38
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 16:02 |
|
|
Pollyanna posted:Game report I think some of the issues you're having, to be frank, have less to do with Dungeon World and more to do with GMing in general. The player disagreement there is something that goes back to the ur-advice for GMs - if something goes wrong, stop trying to solve it with the game and actually talk it out. It's clear that the two players did not agree about what to do with this item, and there's no mechanic or in-character discussion that's going to resolve that. In fact forcing that discussion to abide by the structure of the game is going to make things worse. Every time. You need to stop, have everyone take a breath, and then talk it out as players at the table before you go back to the game. Remind everyone that the intent here is for everyone to have a good time, and that everyone should try to be fan of each other's characters as players, even if their characters don't get along. If that starts spilling into the players sniping at each other, then you need to step back and have a discussion between the players about that, and not try to do it in character or resolve it with game mechanics. As the GM you do have to dig to get at the heart of why people are unhappy. In this case it's pretty clear that the SP player felt like the AP player was doing something at the expense of the group and the other players, denying them a chance to have a cool moment or reward. Essentially that the AP player was hogging the spotlight and using game mechanics to ensure that they got what they wanted. Now, the AP player may not have felt like that's what they were doing, but that doesn't matter. Clearly the other players were upset and that needed to be talked out and a compromise found before moving forward in game. There are times where one character screwing over the other characters makes for great drama, but you need to make sure all the players involved are okay with that ahead of time. Often that will involve trade offs - the AP gets to consecrate the item, but there's some offsetting spotlight moment for the other characters to make up for it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 16:54
|
|