Beet Wagon posted:

"We're going to ban arguably the nicest critic on the subforum because someone else did something (which isn't against the rules) offsite."

I'm almost proud. That, combined with The Kazan taking his meltdown to PMs is pretty

Beet Wagon posted:

I'm just being amused by the fact that the entire mod team is ducking me to the point of logging off of their subreddit's discord because they know there's no good answer to the really simple question "What exactly was I banned for?" I guess it's easier to log off than to admit "Uhhhh we banned you for posting a screencap of reddit to Something Awful."

I guess in the end it's kind of poetic to be undone by a jpeg lol

Beet Wagon posted:

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

Glad to see the /r/starcitizen moderators banning Beet for the same reason the CIG moderators banned me.

I’ll be honest, I feel like I’ve just finally earned my stripes in the He-Man-Star-Citizen-Haters Club. We’re gonna have to get a Banned Buddies tag now.

DapperDon posted:

One thing we know as a known fact is that they are all hypocrites of the highest autistic order. Just like me and a few other goons that tested their rules to the point of them not caring anymore about them to just hit us with a ban. They are not equipped to deal with people like us. We were never supposed to be able to survive their "fair and balanced" sub rules or moderators and it ran their autism meters well into the red for a long time before they exploded. Their platform of faux discussion was a lie. They don't want debate, they don't want criticism except for how many chariots they can fit into another and then fantasize about space rape. They want a hugbox and that is exactly what they have. And glance into the comment section of websites that discuss Star Citizer shows they don't do well outside of their protected areas. They are broken headed children that need to be put in a playpen with adult supervision. Nothing more. No Scooby Hour mystery. They are just not people that can deal with a reality that does not shield them or enables their behavior. So when I think of all the money those idiots have shoveled up Chris and Sandi's nose, I laugh. I laugh my rear end off because there never will be a game. Never.

\u\Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

This subreddit has never been particularly respectful. It's a reflection of the Star Citizen community in general, who by design can't accommodate the possibility that the project that they've sunk money and energy into is destined to be a failure. Outside the echo chamber Star Citizen is a scam, Chris Roberts is a fraud, and the community is a cult. Inside the echo chamber Star Citizen is going fine, Chris Roberts is saving gaming, and the community is healthy.

It's not.

But it's not your fault.

From the very beginning CIG has enabled some of the most toxic and ugly elements to flourish. It started with rampant racism and homophopia that required CIG to create rules outside of "Be Good". Then it became sexism, complete with Ben blaming the victim of harassment whose original sin was wanting to create a group for girls. Then it just became silent elimination ('weighting') of threads that posed unpopular arguments, and then banning for off-site behavior. The end result is an insulated echo chamber with no interest whatsoever in hearing the possibility that the BDSSE might not be perfect... let alone feasible.

I rarely post here anymore. The game is dead, nobody around here cares enough to listen, and frankly I just don't give a poo poo. But this community banned a friend of mine (u/Beet_Wagon) for his association off-site. The exact same thing CIG did to me a few years ago. As far as I'm concerned that makes this community no better than RSI's forums. I wouldn't be surprised if I get banned too.

Here's the thing; nothing you do will help or save Star Citizen. You have absolutely no agency whatsoever when it comes to the operations of Cloud Imperium Games or the machinations of Chris Roberts. There is no amount of posting, input, trolling, purchases, pledges, or anything else that will change anything about CIG. Sending death threats to someone who doesn't like the game isn't going to make Star Citizen happen. Banning people you don't like isn't going to make Star Citizen happen. This game is too big to influence, and those in charge have made it perfectly clear that the only contribution they value from the community is their money.

The only thing that will change this community is the one thing that I'm convinced will never happen; a commercial release.

Spiderdrake posted:

SC has entered the patreon paradox; they continue to receive money for not finishing, so they won't finish until they stop receiving money, but won't be able to finish without money.

MilesK posted:

Bootcha posted:

I'll preface this with IANAP.

CryEngine is capable of providing a first person experience. It's also capable of providing a platform for a MMO, a top down RTS, and even a side scrolling platformer. And certainly it is capable of being a platform for a space sim.

An engine, however, is governed by the processes it dictates in the rendering of scenes, calculations of physics, and data packets it sends.

If you want the engine to do something that it currently does not do, you have to create a process that does that, and integrate it with the engine's other processes.

The best example I can give is the engine's multiplayer netcode. Currently, CryEngine's core processes for multiplayer dictate it will update every client about every physics activity that happens within the rendered landscape. Now, this is fine for a multiplayer FPS arena with just players and a few physics-enabled boxes. However, by expanding what is physics enabled, you have increased what the engine has to communicate to servers and clients. At a certain point, this will cause connectivity issues as packets become larger, and clients have to wait longer for those packets to process through their game process. This is usually measured in fractions of seconds, but they might add up to seconds, which would render gameplay a stuttering mess of unfun experience.

So you want to cull the physics objects that communicate updates to a certain radius. Great. However, the engine was not programmed to do that. In fact it's very adamant, to its very core programming, that it will do it the way it was programmed to function. There are a few clever solutions you can build on top of the netcode programming, such as dumping updates from certain objects, but that is not what you want. You want to fundamentally change how the netcode communicates. That requires digging through the Eastern-European spaghetti code deeply nestled and baked into the core programming, and removing every function and process of that code. But you can't just carve it out leaving a gap, you have redefine what the initial trigger for the process asks for, which requires even more deep digging into processes seemingly unrelated to netcode, still rely on functions that process used. Then you have to stitch the new netcode within the engine, and have a library of definitions that the engine understands so it can execute functions within the processes of the gameplay. This also requires testing every process and function within the engine so that you found every reference to old code and cut it out, and redefined triggers to ask for the new functions of the new process.

This can take anywhere between 12-18 months of work by experienced programmers.

Now imagine doing that for nearly every aspect of the engine you're using. The first time for each aspect you do it half-assed. Now you have to do it fully.

That's Star Citizen.

Beet Wagon posted:

It will never not be funny that all guys pissing up the "SA is brigading us with thousands of reddit bots" tree on /r/starcitizen are the same dudes who spend 6 hours at a time astroturfing any Star Citizen post in /r/games, /r/pcgaming, /r/gaming, and any other community that has the misfortune to have to deal with them.

TheAgent posted:

you'll find that every high level backer is a goon, doing a reverse inverse concern pledge, sideways spite pledge troll

we then refund these accounts, buy back in at higher and higher pledges, just to create more work for CIG. we also run the grey and black markets at an overall loss of 20%, because we want to make it seem like there's shaken confidence in the game

it's pretty crazy that we go to such lengths to embarrass Chris Roberts, but hey, when you have such an amazing game with features like "move a box at 12 FPS" how can you not fight that with such crafty extremes

TheAgent posted:

haha I forgot about this holy poo poo

quote:

Case Number: SC125021
D AND M GENERAL CONTRACTOR, INC. VS VANILLA SHELL, INC. ET.

Filing Courthouse: Santa Monica Courthouse
Filing Date: 11/20/2015
Case Type: Other Real Property Rights Case (General Jurisdiction)
Status: Dismissed - Other 11/06/2017

oh CIG surely won this terrible and slanderous lawsuit against them

o wait

quote:

11/06/2017 Request for Entry of Dismissal (OF ENTIRE ACTION WITH PREJUDICE )
Filed by Attorney for Plaintiff

09/19/2017 Notice-Settlement
Filed by Attorney for Plaintiff

hahaha if you don't know what that means, it means CIG settled and the plantiff got monies

even better they got lawyer fees back as well motherfuckers because they tried to stall while negotiating but actually had to wind up in court

lolllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

Koil posted:

SPECTRUM posted:

We funded the game almost 6 years ago and blasted through the stretch goals and we almost trippled the ammount that was asked for (65 Million was the last stretch goal, we're at 187,954,483$ as of today, that's almost 100times more than what was asked for in the beginning! It should've been all funded with 2 Million $)
So all this "we have to pay their wages" is utter nonsense. Every company has to pay their employees, every company has to pay taxes and rent, etc.
That is none of our business, it's theirs.
A product was promised, it was payed for (and with more than what was asked for), now it's up to said company to deliver said product.
If CIG can't handle the project, with the money that was given, they should openly and clearly communicate that, with a new time table, estimated release dates, and such.

We're in an "early alpha" (after 5-6 years of active development), a "beta" is nowhere near in sight, and a full fledged release is nowhere near. Not for Squadron 42 and not for Star Citizen.
We don't even know how core features will actually work. AFTER ALL THESE YEARS! (And neither does CIG)
Now please tell me again, how and why we actually should care about their monthly costs and give them more money?

And it's always funny how backers from 2 years ago, tell people that have been here from the beginning that they should just STFU. No, that's not how this is going to happen.
Some of us "old dogs" are pissed, and rightfully so.

Lord Stimperor posted:

A long time has passed between 2012 and now and it's absolutely astounding how much has changed in my life while Star Citizen remained sort of a constant, if not one that has been prominent at all times in my life. I finished my Bachelor's Study, found a partner to share my life with, moved town, finished my Master's Degree, moved again, bought a house, got a dog, started and stopped taking flying lessons, got into sim flying instead, became a lovely woodworker, learned how to program microcontrollers to make custom keyboards and game controllers, got fat, got thin, became the uncle of two wonderful girls, and many other things.

Meanwhile, at CIG they're still figuring out how to make people not slip through the floor after 6 years of development. During my PhD I've sometimes doubted myself because my project was super long-winded. And then I look at what CIG did during the same time frame and I think 'Nah, I'll be okay'.

TheAgent posted:

wow another ship sale

maybe its $50 and it has a mining laser and is in 3.2

or maybe it's another $500 to $750 behemoth that'll never be in the game

Scruffpuff posted:

I'm absolutely tickled with the E3 reaction to Star Citizen: no reaction at all, because it doesn't matter. When forcibly brought up, it gets a canned laugh track.

Stand proud, Chris. You're a global laughingstock, and the more of your "game" you show, the worse you look.

You know how you can come back from this? Do you know how you can "silence doubters?" Do you know how you can "stop Goons?" Do you know how you can reclaim the narrative? (Hint: it's not by having Reddit spergs post comments everywhere.)

You can do all those things and more by releasing something that isn't hot poo poo. That's all, Chris. Are you saying you can't do something the evil publishers can do? Are you saying you can't do something a small group of developers can do? Are you saying you can't do what even a single indie developer can do? Because even if you're not saying that, Chris, you're certainly showing it.

You badmouthed the entire industry with your "hold my beer" act. So far all you've accomplished is faceplanting into a pile of your own poo poo. Time to put up or shut up.

posted:

r/starcitizen declares war on r/eve

We already won. eve ONLINE

VictorianQueerLit posted:

I was curious so I decided to do some math. The Star Citizen ship costs $120 for new money/$140 for store credit

Let's be generous and compare to the cheaper new money price.

For the price of the Star Citizen ship ($120) you could get

8 Eve Online Plex worth 3b isk each. 24 Billion Isk total.

This gets you any one of the following in EVE
92,307 Ventures
685 Interceptors
600 T3 Destroyers
533 Battlecruisers
400 Amazing Covert Cruisers
266 Interdictors
160 Battleships
68 UltraPro Mining ships
24 Capital Ships
Enough funding to mix and match a fleet of thousands of fully fit ships that will last for months/years of constant play


Or 1 ship that doesn't exist in a game that doesn't exist.

Daztek posted:

posted:

Mining in the new Vulture

posted:

I'm ashamed of this disgusting behaviour from the EVE community over the past few days, A few trolling humour posts here and there was fine, but 50 hours of this non-stop BS is just vomit-inducing by now..

posted:

gently caress that dieing CCP game, fir they sought on milking hard longest of times and whise community is definitely not known for being open minded and welcoming.

It is not going to make me stop believing & pledging in the game of course but come on guys be serious, please massage the darn ship or armor if you are ok with it but not 110% sure it is screaming Star Citizen and Star Citizen only, and Star Citizen universe readiness.

posted:

"EVE is dying"

At least it launched

doingitwrong posted:

posted:

The more I think about it, the more these mid tier backers do me in. The people who dropped $45 or whatever and forgot about the game make sense. The alleged mega whales—for whom money is apparently not an object or who get some kind of intense pleasure out of draining their coffers for a dream—are a different species of person from me.

But the people who are apparently still trying to budget wisely and marshall their finances are something else. They talk about good deals, and two for the price of one. They are trying to be savvy about which ships offer the most bang for the buck. They use the kind of words I’d use to think about my entertainment budget except they’re talking about hundreds of dollars for single gameplay features (in a game that barely exists).

At what point do you stop noticing “hey, this steal of a deal is literally the price of a new console and its entire library of top rated games”?

SpaceSDoorGunner posted:

lol

Hobold posted:

TheLastRoboKy posted:

no_recall posted:

Also, for Dolvak, we know you read this thread. Stop trying to deflect; you couldn't, didn't and never tried to moderate r/star_citizen and made it an incubation chamber for jpeg autism instead of trying to inject some reason into your sub. Enjoy the fruits of your labor. You aren't winning this one. Lol

Dolvak will forever be to me the guy that would tell everyone that Beer was a bad person and whenever Beer challenged him on it he'd loving walk right back out of there so fast you'd assume his lower body was on backwards to assist him in his backpedaling. He's the guy that wants to be the big fish and respected in the community but he's got absolutely zero qualities to enable it. I can only assume he got mod of that subreddit by accident because he sure as heck hasn't shown himself to be capable of using it.

Zaphod42 posted:

Watching ATV is really getting creepy, the cult-like way employees talk about a made up imaginary fairy land.

"Can you salvage with this vehicle? Is there a grav-lev? Okay so no you won't have a grav-lev so it won't be as good as <other ship> but you can land it and then use the tractor beams to pull in salvage so it'll still work..."

There are no tractor beams

There is no salvage

This is loving crazy.

quote:

PRESENTING THE VENTURE CAPITALIST SKIN BUNDLE!
Love the Venture? Enjoy mining and salvaging? Have we got a SKIN bundle for you!

Head on over to the New Eden Store and pick up the “Venture Capitalist” SKIN bundle, which contains three Venture SKINs that are ideal for mining below the belt. Just beware of sneaky vultures attempting to swoop in and loot your assets!

The best part about this SKIN bundle is that it won’t cost you $120 – You can get all three of these SKINs for just 120 PLEX – that’s more than 50% off their total value when they’re sold separately!

The Venture Capitalist SKIN bundle contains the following three SKINs for the Outer Ring Excavations ‘Venture’ class frigate:

Paydirt Prospector
Morphite Shine
Glacial Drift
DID YOU KNOW?
You can play EVE Online for free, and you’ll receive a free Venture once you complete the new player tutorial.

Alternatively, if you do feel you’d like to support the continued development of New Eden, $120 will buy you the PLEX to run an Omega subscription for more than 6 months …or buy a little over 36,500 Ventures at current market price in Jita.

That’s a shitload of mining right there!

FUN VENTURE FACTS!
36,500 Ventures – at 133m in length each – makes a mean 4,800km long conga line that would stretch all the way from Reykjavík, Iceland to Washington DC, USA.

If we’re looking at sheer mass, 36,500 Ventures at their unloaded gross operating tonnage of 1200T is the equivalent mass to more than 16,200,000 African forest elephants, which weigh in at an average of 2.7T each!

In terms of volume, 36,500 Ventures at an average of 29,500m3 – unpackaged, of course – is roughly the equivalent volume of 538,375,000,000 500ml bottles of everyone’s favorite soft drink – Quafe Ultra.

big nipples big life posted:

posted:

Instead of fighting over space pixels, CCP decided to make every one involved laugh

CCP: CIG are thieves and they straight up stole our asset

Idiot Redditors: HAHAHA Great Troll guys, glad we all get along.

Cao Ni Ma posted:

It takes a very special brain to think that CCP is trying to make a buck out of cig and not that they are taking a huge dump on them to the delight of their community

posted:

I spent thousands and no it doesn't make me mad, because it was play money and intended to throw away on meaningless things.

It makes me a bit miffed that I can't voice concerns or criticisms of the development despite coming from a place of experience on the topic without being accused of being a troll or derek smart.

If you liked the incel subreddit, you'll love the SC sub.

Scruffpuff posted:

Then the release of 3.whatever made backers panic from its sheer ineptitude. Every release from this bad joke of a game developer moves the "game" backwards and further away from the dream in trailers and early playable mockups (playable sections made by actual game development studios instead of CIG).

Just look at what was shown as playable in 2014 and compare it to what was released to silence doubters and deny refunds in Winter 2015. A complete cut-down bullshit version of the game - a Potemkin Village to fool stupid people.

CIG knows their audience. Just like the grammatical errors and misspellings in scam emails are intended to weed out all but the most gullible, CIG's trailers, "game", and promises are intended to weed out the actual gamers and allow them to isolate and sink their hooks deep into the corpulent, putrescent layers of flab which enshroud their backers.

In just a few days now they will release a "patch" because that's what game developers do, and CIG is very definitely a game development studio despite years of accumulated evidence to the contrary. I'm pretty sure it will fix everything.

Beet Wagon posted:

We've got to be pretty close to peak theorycrafting here

posted:

I started wide eyed and excited. Then I started to realize this was not something that was coming right away, and I started to get frustrated. Then I realized, if someone asked me how long I would wait for a game like this, I would answer my life. I would wait my whole life to play my dream game.

The Titanic posted:

Right now CIG should be having a cornucopia of content pretty much orgasming onto people's computers every month or so. With as much as they promised, their 5-10% should be years away. They have to deliver such an enormous load that you can't even rub the surface without hitting tremendous content.

That they have managed to stall out during the "barely really a game" phase is pretty tragic. That it's been crawling along in its own blood for 7 years is even more sad.

I guess the happy part of all this is that, as a studio, CIG is dead. They'll never get a publisher to support them. Their lifeblood will always be at the beck and call of people they can get to send them money or beg from individual investors. It's not a way to run a company, and in the history of a company it's a pretty time-limited operation with no staying power and no certainty.

Drunk Theory posted:

War is peace, freedom is slavery, Star Citizen is good

XK posted:

Insurance time runs down 8 times faster while playing, because the game has an accelerated clock. The "vacation" clock runs real time. Something about "played time".

What?

It's complete word salad.

The Saddest Robot posted:

Why do you need an accelerated clock to make a fictional moon rotate 8 times in one day? Just say that the moon rotates at that rate.

TheAgent posted:

imagine four insurance claims on the edge of a cliff

time works the same way

Toops posted:

Two main reasons Star Citizen is 4 years late:

1. No culture of delivery. What Chris Robert (and by proxy everyone at CIG) values is having ideas, turning them into sizzle-real "moments," and being praised for them. When you deliver working code, idea time stops. That's Chris's worst nightmare, because he's no longer needed. When you're developing software, especially games, you have to be really diligent about establishing the priority of your work, constantly integrating small modular pieces into the whole, play-testing it, and keeping that momentum moving towards a finished end-product. You're gonna wobble along the way. You'll have setbacks, but if you're keeping changes small and frequent, the setbacks won't be that big. What they do at CIG is the exact opposite. CR bubble-farts out some brain diarrhea and pulls the development e-brake, tells people to "work on this now," and as a result CIG takes N steps forward and N steps right on back. Or, more accurately, CIG takes N steps forward, travels back in time, and starts over from scratch, at both the micro- and macro-level. Which brings us to number 2:

2. Poor branch management. Because CR basically bounces from one panicked "Look at this hot bullshot! I mean great idea and/or progress! Please continue giving me money [investor| publisher|backer]!!!" meeting, engineering can't get a release train going. At any given point there are giant swaths of code being developed in parallel on long-lived branches. Over time, those branches diverge from each other until they become more or less incompatible. CIG constantly gets 1-shot by massive merge nightmares. We have a mountain of evidence, including status reports and ATV interviews, proving beyond any doubt that merge problems caused the Star Marine failure. I mean for gently caress's sake the mainline branch switched to 64bit and didn't bother to tell the Star Marine guys. I strongly believe merge problems also caused the 3.0 year+ delay. When you have a lot of engineers working in parallel on features that have to integrate, and you throw artists making assets which also have to integrate onto that already combustible mixture, and all those silo'd parallel efforts have really long lead-times, you wind up in a giant black-hole of time and effort. Nothing gets done and nobody knows where they are in relation to anything else.

It all comes down to a culture of "style over substance." Roberts and his motley band of crooks don't give an actual poo poo about making something. Chris needs that sweet sweet limelight, and the others love those benjamins. They already have everything they need, so why the hell would they finish the game and face judgment?

But this is the worst part: He's right. Chris Roberts is absolutely correct in his strategy. It's been working since 2012. People will give him hundreds of millions of dollars for his wandering incomprehensible ideas and the occasional reel that sizzles right into thin loving air. I'm of the opinion that he's autistic as gently caress, and doesn't consciously mislead people for money, but I may not be giving him due credit for his shrewdness and flagrant compulsion to lie.

Colostomy Bag posted:

Zazz Razzamatazz posted:

Looks like the 600i is going over well...



That's the most RealTalk™ I've seen on Spectrum in a long time.

Well hopefully Ben Lesnick, Director of jpegs to chime in on this calamity. Oh wait...

posted:

quote:

Are you a game dev, or even a software engineer?

Didn't think so

I've done the former in the past. I am a distributed systems software engineer working on operating system features now.

quote:

Yeah well I work at NASA. I'll call you when I need a calculator fixed.

quote:

Kazan I'm not downvoting you because I'm a goon, but because I find you contribute nothing wherever you go, which from my understanding of imaginary internet points, is the point of downvoting.

Ghostlight posted:

"BRACE YOURSELF FOR GOOOOOOONNNNNSSWWWWWWWAAAAAAAARRRRRMMMMMM" warns Kazan to his apprentice, grasping the sides of his computer chair so tightly the colour flees his knuckles, and watching through teeth so tightly clenched only a sliver of enamel escapes them. His whole body rocks with the impact of the words -1 points appearing next to his name on the computer screen.

Mirificus posted:

big nipples big life posted:

The Saddest Robot posted:

I am a professional software engineer and indie game developer and I don't understand Star Citizen development.

neither does CIG!

Beet Wagon posted:

A Commando posted:

The first swipe at mining in #StarCitizen is surprisingly good. The gameplay is satisfying, the sound is great, and you can see all of the dials CIG can tweak in the future to account for skill, equipment, environment and everything else.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2VmB4L5goY

Tsed posted:

I love that EVE is wasp's nest they chose to stick their dick in.

SPECTRUM posted:

Me and lot and lot of friends we put our money (lot of money) in this project because we trust in 2012 Chris Roberts words, a simulator for PC, but after years, lot of delay we are loosing faith.

ComfyPants posted:

https://i.imgur.com/0HPB2IZ.gifv

Zazz Razzamatazz posted:

G0RF posted:

It just threw me for a loop. Because there’s an almost diabolical level of manipulation going on. One that felt conspicuously timed, as if these disparate new gameplay ideas were worked up over a few day planning session on the CIG side. One that asked “how do we emotionally manipulate people into buying into these things”, most especially real estate and the protection Chris wants to sell with it. Maybe Chris is that cunning, but it had me wondering who else was at the table hashing it out and how any of them could possibly think they were game designers...

I don't know. I guess I take a "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" attitude to it all. Feels like a bunch of people sitting around a table going "oh HEY wouldn't it be so cool if..." non-stop without much regard for how it will all work together.

However, it does feel like they're saying one thing to one part of the community "Huge tracts of land" "PvP with emergent gameplay" and another thing "bomb that land" "carebear heaven" to the other part. Which yeah, is manipulative and dishonest as hell.

Zaphod42 posted:

CIG's spaceship shilling videos are weird, in that they don't sound like they're talking about ships in a videogame, not really. They're describing completely different game experiences, basically each its own completely different game.

Its not "Uh yeah this ship is a bit bigger and has fast engines and good guns"

Its "If you buy the <x> you'll be able to fulfill your fantasy of being a space racer, and if you buy a <y> you're a space trucker, and if you buy a <z> you're a space smuggler, and if you buy a <q> you're a space insurance salesman"

None of these things make sense in the same world as each other, there's no mechanics or systems designed that make them all... work together. Its just mashing up every possible different game idea about space and telling everybody that if you just give us $$$ then you'll get exactly that. And he gets his, and she gets hers...

Star Citizen isn't one extremely ambitious game, its 500 extremely ambitious games. Its absolute insanity.

XK posted:

For everything this game needs, here's what CIG will deliver:

More spaceship sales.

The game clearly needs more spaceships.

That's been the problem all along, lack of spaceships.

CIG isn't a game company. It's a spaceship dealership.

Pixelate posted:

Captain's Log: 3.2

• TOILET DOOR NOT OPENING
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5PstIdX4oI
  
• COCKPIT FULL OF DUST AFTER DAYMAR MINING
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6KCvuNgWn8
  
• BY LAYING DOWN ON THE LARGE BED, YOU GET TELEPORTED OUTSIDE THE 600I
  
  
• EXPECTED RESULT: Rock fragments should stay above ground level
  
• STUCK IN SALUTE EMOTE ANIMATION
  
• SORRY, MY FAULT: I HAD FORGOTTEN THAT I HAD OVERCLOCKED MY GRAPHICSCARD TOO MUCH FOR TESTING!
  
• Get Shot by child in full riot gear.

G0RF posted:

Miku and Montoya both parrot this absurd lie that there are 5-10 ship artists in the 400 person company.

Look here

then here

and here

and here.

Or, if you have the time, sit down with a pencil and pad and watch this.

After you’re done tallying it up guys, let us know what number you come up with. Then go and lie no more.

Trilobite posted:

Scruffpuff posted:

In fact, CIG has the cult 100% trained by now. They don't even need to do a press release. They can just fire half the staff, close half the offices, and within 15 minutes their backers will have spun a wild tale that will make it all Good For Star Citizen™!

"Star Citizen really hasn't been in development that long, they needed to spend 2019 and 2020 dismantling and consolidating the company. All that's left to do is the final polishing, and then it's ready to release! Bind culling is definitely almost in the next update, too!"

Kosumo posted:

Amazing Zimmo posted:

Anyone want to have a crack at how the gently caress this could happen?

My money is on …… Chris Roberts

Dark Off posted:

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08815227/filing-history
filing is up. The only interesting out of norm thing im spotting is this.

quote:

remove the rights and there's no obstacle to offering to sell to outsiders

quote:

That's what I think, knowing nothing about any of this and reading that for 2mins. Change the articles of association to remove first dibs for shareholders and sell shares to whales

Mattjpwns posted:

two weeks, tops

fuckin' derek

The Titanic posted:

As a former employee of Love Pledge now that the company has been shifty disbanded in a shaded manner, I just want to go on record for this.

As I was handed my pink slip, it was by somebody I never saw before but pulled up in a Porsche with California tags. The note was typed, and while my name was crossed out and misspelled, and they also spelled the bosses name wrong on his signature line, I knew this was it.

Once they unchained the manacles on my bloody ankles I knew it was real. As the team and I wandered out into the blazing sun of an empty parking lot in a former desert gas station converted into a "game development studio", we knew that the sun was real again and wasn't just a fond memory that would occasionally peek through the wood slats covering the barred windows.

I clutched the note in my hand, my other still gripping the Wacom stylus that had been hot glued to my fingers during the first "We want more food please revolt", I let it go into the wind. I believed in this company like anything. I believed in the dream, and in the CEO TheAgent, because he had made really good fmv games back in the 90's we think.

We were all destined for greatness. The money was there, the fat guy was finally gone, and at long last TheAgent stopped snorting lines of blow off of the backs of naked hookers he'd occasionally bring in to work with him on "employee recognition day".

I hear now he's off to shut down the UK office though, and the 16 other companies we've only heard rumors about all these years of our dedicated service. We appeal to the fans, don't hate us for failing, because we tried to do something nobody else had ever tried to do before.

It's not every day you can make a video game that has words on it, and switched backgrounds and pictures of characters talking to each other very much like being in a real novel with visuals. And what's more was the sheer amount of porn that we had to make for it. Literally volumes of all kinds of porn that anybody could ever imagine, if they were high on cocaine.

TheAgent was a visionary, far ahead of his time! It's not his fault that computer technology couldn't keep up with his dreams. It's not his fault. It's us, the lowly workers who are to blame. We failed him and his creative vision with our false ideals and bad concepts.

When somebody yelled during a meeting "why don't we just loving use Ren'Py!" I knew that we were in for it, and that the vision itself had become corrupted with our foul thinking and slander of The True Vision.

I hope some day, some how we will have another opportunity to see TheAgent's creative vision sprout again. We were not worthy enough for his "golden literary fingers" and we may never be able to see this happen again in the history of gaming, because big publishers simply won't allow it.

The Titanic posted:

Rule #1 of Star Citizen marketing is that Star Citizen is always exactly the game you want to have.

And thanks to the over saturation of propaganda and videos you can always find where somebody said a thing that matches your precise narrative.

This is by design and one things CIG does very well.

SolusLunes posted:

I found out that one of my friends has sunk ~500 pounds into this game.

He's in Europe, so he should still be able to get a refund via quoting the EU laws at Crobberts (because lol brexit, much like SC, appears to be measured on geological timescales).

He says that he's spent several thousand hours in the game and feels he's gotten his money's worth, and that it'd be unfair to the devs to ask for a refund.

I asked him what spaceships he bought with that real money. Apparently about two thirds of his money has gone to ships that aren't implemented in the game. He doesn't see this as an impediment to them deserving his money.

I tried, fellow commandos.

Scruffpuff posted:

FPS design best-practice:

- Simple, quickly-identifiable player silhouettes to make quick priority judgement calls? Nope!
- Super-fact way to identify friend from foe? Nope!
- Balanced but differing weapon types that provide for deep strategy in different combat situations? Nope!
- For that matter, different combat situations? Nope!
- Clever maps with varied layout providing opportunities for cover, open combat, stealth, and ambushes? Nope!
- Some kind of overall goal to inform gameplay goals or change up styles? Nope!
- Smooth, responsive.... of course nope

Chris is worse than ignorant - he's worse than inept. He's not a game developer - he's a game destroyer that thinks he's a visionary. There might not be anyone in the industry who's as adept at taking an established and enjoyable experience and laser-focus on removing every single thing about it that makes it fun, and leaving a dessicated husk that only looks like a game in screenshots.

posted:

I watch Wing Commander on a yearly basis. It's still a good movie, all things considered.

trucutru posted:

The ship with the famous bathtube they were talking about was the Constelation Phoenix "A dedicated luxury spacecraft for the discerning space captain" (it also includes the Millennium Falcon's secret storage area), which was the first "luxury" ship and the reason CIG noticed that they could milk a shitload of extra money from a certain subset of morons. That lead to the 600i and 900 Jump, as well as to the Constellation Phoenix Emerald for the extra-dumb. I'll let it speak for itself



Of course, the Phoenix may have been the first but you still cannot fly it. Because there is no actual point in delivering most of the carrots you promise, study after study has shown that random rewards feel more rewarding than expected ones.

Zaphod42 posted:

I love how 99% of CIG's videos are just showing you dev tools.

Most game companies hide that stuff or only show it in special behind-the-scenes videos, but CIG has literally nothing else to show.

They're basically taking credit for making the crytek level editor (Hint: they didn't write a single line of code that makes that work)




Also that one guy's flock of seagulls haircut just gets worse every video

Toops posted:

For a party system of acceptable fidelity, the server needs to send updates every single frame about :

• who is in your party
  
• their position in world coordinates
  
• their position relative to your coordinates
  
• how fast they are traveling in world coordinates
  
• how fast they are traveling relative to you
  
• fully rendered viewport showing what they are seeing in real time
  
• their heart-rate
  
• how much argon they are currently breathing
  
• whether they have to poop or not
  
• their distance from the nearest bathroom
  

And that's just off the top of my head. Oh, and those should be blocking calls. Your next frame SHOULD NOT render unless you are ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN about whether you still have friends or not.

This is Star Citizen guys, not some bullshit "big pub" shovels out to plebs. Christ you guys don't understand game development.

Scruffpuff posted:

The CIG Scam Playbook

Random Excerpt

- Take a bog-standard game feature, preferably one in almost every game, that every gamer has been familiar with for decades (AI, grouping, quests, etc.)
- Outline every small detail of the engineering challenges that go along with said feature - details real game developers don't mention because nobody cares - this will make your backers think they're "seeing how the sausage is made" and they will become self-professed experts on game development
- DO NOT MENTION that those engineering challenges have been solved by real game developers for decades, to the point where they've practically become plugins
- Pick one or two of the embedded "challenges" to focus on as a "blocker"
- "Create" a new technology to solve the "blocker" - it is critical you give that technology a buzzword for your backers to repeat: "subsumption AI", "network bind culling", etc.
- Start focusing development timelines and propaganda videos on that technology, rather than the game
- Always hint, but never state outright, that the completion of these technologies will cause the progress of the project to hurtle forward
- Fail

Congratulations! You're developing the CIG way!

Scruffpuff posted:

Sometimes I'll spin up an old game, some as far back as the 90s, whatever I can get running. And any time I see anything happen in the game, no matter what it is, I think to myself "LOL Chris can't do this."

There's literally nothing CIG can get working. They can't even get the stuff built into the engine working. It's amazing.

Remember the big deal about subsumption AI, and that demo showing how they got AI characters to walk around a cafeteria mostly without bumping into each other? And they all looked like robotic morons and the whole thing looked like complete loving poo poo, and they were acting like they invented the goddamned concept, and it was all terra incognita?

Now watch this Assasin's Creed swordfighting scene that includes guards who react to danger, and a crowd of AI characters who will either keep on what they were doing, notice the fight and run away, and some will even notice the fight and gather to watch:

But CIG wants a gold star for this poo poo:

TheAgent posted:

hmm another star citizen partner being sued you say? stolen code you say? the same team that was cut from star citizen scrambled to make a buck you say?

quote:

Warner Bros. got in bed with a tech company that jacked codes in order to fast-track and produce its "Westworld" mobile app ... so claims another company in a new lawsuit.

The gaming company, Bethesda Softworks, is suing the media giant and Behaviour Interactive and, in the suit, says Behaviour stole its designs, artwork and codes ... and used them in the "Westworld" game.

In docs, obtained by TMZ, Bethesda says it hired Behaviour first, in 2014, to work on its popular mobile app game, "Fallout Shelter." Later, after "Westworld" premiered in 2016 ... Behaviour went on to create the "Westworld" game for Warner Bros.

Bethesda's issue, according to the suit, is that Behaviour used its "Fallout Shelter" coding for the "Westworld" game. And, Bethesda believes there's a smoking gun -- the same bugs that appeared in an earlier version of 'Fallout' also showed up in the "Westworld" game.

Bethesda is suing to get the game shut down and to get a slice of the profits. We've reached out to Warner Bros. and Behaviour ... so far, no word back.

MilesK posted:

posted:

Scruffpuff posted:

People like to accuse people who understand what a hack Chris is as "haters" or "jealous of his success" but this doesn't track. There are countless game devs out there who are far more successful than Chris - why aren't we piling on all of them this hard? Garriott just release a complete failing turd, and we're giving him well-deserved poo poo over it, but we still recognize him for what he's accomplished.

Some real morons have tried to say it's jealousy over him because the record-breaking crowdfunding money or whatever, but that's also bullshit. Stealing more money than the next guy isn't "success" unless you measure it from an amoral perspective. At some point Chris has to deliver, and he's simply incapable of that.

No, the hate for Chris isn't due to any of these things. Nobody is jealous of him or of his money - there are far better targets for reasons that mundane. No, the hate for Chris is due to the same thing it's always been - he's a hack fraud who abused the trust of gamers to enrich himself unjustly.

Tokamak posted:

Star Citizen is a good* game

Quavers posted:

posted:

these lazy losers at Frontier never had a single original idea.

They even had to plagiarize CR's SC (walking, Eva, boarding, FPS) pitch to reach their Kickstarter goal, and deliver 0% of it.

How Braben is still not sued for consumer fraud is beyond me.

posted:

don't worry, Frontier only steals CIG's game design concepts, but never actually implements any of them. 😂

Braben has no ethics, no ideas and no soul. He likes to receive cash he doesn't have to spend on development paychecks.

G0RF posted:

There are at least 3 kinds.

1) Incentivized Shills — The Referral Program (and contest) has absolutely crowdsourced the shilling game.

2) Pecking Order Shills - Montoya shills for CIG because he’s already secured a high status slot in the theorycrafted future pecking order. He has a conflict of interest that is never openly acknowledged while he spins everything in a way most favorable to CIG circa 2018. Most recently that included him calling for CIG to embrace paid subscriptions and thus break one of the only Kickstarter promises as yet unbroken. He’s a water boy for CIG marketing even if he’s not on a payroll.

3) CIG affiliated (or employed) Shills — They may be few in number but they most certainly exist. One can’t look at the conspicuous post history of Starloop and see anything remotely resembling a backer. Coaching people on how to trick others into buying into the game during periods of “max hype” while stating upfront “this is a less honest way of doing it but...”

As I’ve mentioned before, Starloop is most easily summoned by making a high karma criticism of CIG’s marketing leadership or history. When PR disasters strike, Starloop spins them to the good, like when saying that viral coverage (including BBC) coverage of the $27000 ship bundle was a good thing. There were a lot of Zealots nonplussed by that fiasco but Starloop was unique in pitching the “this is a good thing let’s look to the funding tracker!”

I can see why the first two types might not seem like true Shills, even if they are in spirit. But Starloop at least is 100% a bad actor with nefarious intent and is surely directly connected to CIG.

Beet Wagon posted:

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/SkinnyDampGrison-mobile.mp4

everything going on around the shoulder area of this dude is extremely

GOONS posted:

I love the knockoff Green Goblin and his hosed up wannabe space gun that sucks poo poo with his bizarro fatass elbow that has its own gravitational pull

I'm the empty casings hovering in midair because lol hitboxes

jiggle physics confirmed

I like how the rotating barrel there teleports into position. There's a whole lot to like in that animation but I think that one's my favorite. It's incredible that they can't even do their promotional bullshots right

I'm the 10 GB gun model clipping through his shoulder.

The point of rotating barrels on a gun is that it allows a much higher rate of fire, as each barrel gets to cool a little after use and can be reloaded while another is firing. So firstly, that's a terrible idea for a handheld, magazine-fed weapon unless you want to empty a 100 round mag in about 2 seconds. Secondly, where is the heat supposed to disperse to in a vacuum? Any physicists care to guesstimate how long it would take for the gun to become unusably hot?

They were super proud that they had the Iron Man UI designer onboard, and completely failed to realize that stuff was all about looking flashy and impressive rather than being actually functional and useful for long periods of time.

It's CIG's love of flash over substance in miniature.

Every time I think I've spotted all the things wrong with that clip there's always something else. I think it was earlier in this thread someone coined the term "Fractal awfulness".

tuo posted:

posted:

Mining was great! And then it wasn't...

The first iteration of mining when it hit PTU was really good. I had a few complaints like the laser intensity increasing in 1% increments. That was fixed and now it increases in 0.1% increments. That's great...but...now there are so many other issues it feels like every iteration was a step back.

I would have to say my biggest issue right now is that you can't make fine adjustments fast enough to compensate for extreme changes in the rocks energy. As soon as you get to that green sweet spot, the energy suddenly spikes hard and into the red where it stays for WAY too long no matter what you do. Even if you turn the laser off, that rock is Hell bent on screwing up your day at that point. There simply isn't any consistency to the energy going into the rock and the energy the rock is maintaining. Too difficult to predict.

Also...seems like no matter how far away from the rock you are, it will ruin your day. It's almost as if the rock has heat seeking shockwaves that seek you out. It sucks.

Basically, I can't understand how it was as good as it was on it's first iteration but got worse with each version released to the PTU. Crossing my fingers for future patches that will hopefully turn this back around. All in all, mining is fun and is only going to get better. I can't wait for more.

Star Citizen: I can't understand how it was good as it was on it's first iteration, but got worse with each version released

Scruffpuff posted:

In a sane world, this project would be a parody of game development that everyone would agree is a parody, and everyone would have a good laugh, and that would be the end of it.

In the world we're in at the moment, real game developers are making amazing things, while CIG is stealing money and making bad decisions at every level, plagiarizing other companies, lying to backers, lying about inventing technologies, and basically existing day to day as the Fawlty Towers of game development while their backers praise them for their lovely results and the rest of the world is thinking, "Wait, wait, this is actually real?"

Every time CIG shows something I think "OK this is the super-obvious part where everyone gets the joke finally, everyone has a good laugh, and we move on" but instead what happens is the backers say "Incredible progress from CIG!"

At that time I briefly wonder if backers are in on the joke, then realize it's the same old story where society's castoffs are forever hoping to get in on the ground floor of something that hands them the respect they can't earn on their own (i.e. Montoya).

It's that undercurrent of sadness and desperation that taints the otherwise vintage humor.

posted:

Basically, nothing is done that should be done by now, and the pace and approach they are taking means this is a permanent development project until funding cannot sustain it anymore... it's not a goal to finish and ship a product.

We may get a lot more, and we may have fun with what we get, even. But will it ever be the fully-scoped game? No, I don't believe it will.

And that's solely to do with how long it's taking to get anywhere. You can't rush development, but you also cannot extend it indefinitely.

Perhaps Chris was wrong... perhaps technology was not ready to support his vision?

Pixelate posted:

I give this unto the thread...



Because 'tier zero' is memeing right now.

Terminally Bored posted:

What's the context for this?

Pixelate posted:

ewe2 posted:

Can someone dig up the origins of the citizen claims of 'fake refunds' in the refunds subreddit because by now it's being quoted in every passive-aggressive aside as if it never needed proof

Virtual Captain posted:

Mommy, where do fake refunds come from?

Beet Wagon posted:

It's actually even more complicated than that. Early on in the life of /r/starcitizen_refunds, a bunch of the weirdos at /r/dereksmart postulated that making a bunch of fake refund posts would sink the subreddit by destroying our credibility or whatever. IDK, their plan doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me even now. We banned bunches of them for making fakes and then talking about it in other subs (weirdly there was never a "haha I got you" moment in /refunds, where you'd think it would do the most "damage").

In addition to this, goons thought it was super funny they thought all the refunds were part of some grand conspiracy, and one of the dudes who was on Derek's discord (/u/Hater115) thought it would be funny to take "incriminating screenshots" of the discord and post them to /r/dereksmart. That's where the famous nawledgelambo "folder full of fake refunds" post comes from. Hater even showed them the screenshot of him asking goons to say the most incriminating things they could think of, but the brain trust at /r/dereksmart refused to accept that they'd been had and the joke continues to this day.

The $45k dude was just some crazy person who genuinely "got" us until he deleted all his accounts and disappeared. No idea who he was, but afaik he wasn't affiliated with either goons or derek smart murder fantasy guys. Pure coincidence, but the timing of it all really bolstered the whole "folder full of fakes" thing which was p hilarious.

ChickenBuckets posted:

The level of stupidity this brings out in people over a video game never ceases to amaze me, and thank you for this story Beet Wagon, but I am assuming that getting refunds from CIG are much more difficult these days then in years past?

tithin posted:

As someone who doesn't follow Star Citizen beyond the superficial (also never put money into it) I got into an argument with someone on a discord the other day because some copyright lawyer said that the arguments raised by Crytek / Cryteks legal team had no merit, whereas my argument was "dude, did you even loving read the statement of claims - if even half of them are accurate then they're up a creek without a paddle"

he then linked me a playlist of three videos that said "answered all of my questions" which I promptly did not watch.

Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.

tithin posted:

As someone who doesn't follow Star Citizen beyond the superficial (also never put money into it) I got into an argument with someone on a discord the other day because some copyright lawyer said that the arguments raised by Crytek / Cryteks legal team had no merit, whereas my argument was "dude, did you even loving read the statement of claims - if even half of them are accurate then they're up a creek without a paddle"

quote:

1) All COMMUNICATIONS between CRYTEK and DEFENDANTS, whether by e-mail, private messaging, or forum posts, exchange of media, or file transfer protocol, and all DOCUMENTS incorporating or referencing those COMMUNICATIONS, including but not limited to e-mail chains forwarding those COMMUNICATIONS in whole or in part or commenting on those COMMUNICATIONS.

2) To the extent not requested by the prior requests contained herein, all COMMUNICATIONS between Chris Roberts and Ortwin Freyermuth CONCERNING the PRODUCTS, any game engine including but not limited to CRYENGINE, or the formation of DEFENDANTS.

3) To the extent not requested by the prior requests contained herein, all DOCUMENTS and COMMUNICATIONS that refer to any game engine including but not limited to CRYENGINE.

4) All direct and indirect contracts and agreements between DEFENDANTS and Chris Roberts.

5) All direct and indirect contracts and agreements between DEFENDANTS and Ortwin Freyermuth.

6) All versions of source code, object code, or software associated with the PRODUCTS, including but not limited to versions contained in electronic work directories, shared drives, common directories, or libraries.

7) To the extent not requested by the prior requests contained herein, all DOCUMENTS that originated at CRYTEK, or are derived from DOCUMENTS that originated at CRYTEK, including by way of example CRYENGINE.

8) To the extent not requested by the prior requests contained herein, all DOCUMENTS CONCERNING any representations made by DEFENDANTS to any party regarding ownership of intellectual property in the PRODUCTS.

9) All DOCUMENTS or COMMUNICATIONS CONCERNING the Game License Agreement dated November 20, 2012, including but not limited to the Game License Agreement itself and any exhibits or amendments thereto.

10) All DOCUMENTS or COMMUNICATIONS CONCERNING the Licensing Terms Sheet dated October 6, 2012, including but not limited to the Licensing Terms Sheet itself.

11) To the extent not requested by the prior requests contained therein, all contracts or agreements between the DEFENDANTS and CRYTEK and all DOCUMENTS or COMMUNICATIONS CONCERNING those contracts or agreements.

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13) All DOCUMENTS sufficient to identify and reflect the organizational structure of DEFENDANTS, including but not limited to company directories, and 4 the identification of corporate and/or business departments, whether formally or informally delineated, total number of employees, and each employee's title, job description, and reporting chain.

14) All DOCUMENTS or COMMUNICATIONS CONCERNING the corporate structure and relationship between and among
Cloud Imperium Games Corp.;
Roberts Space Industries Corp.;
Cloud Imperium Games, LLC;
Cloud Imperium LLC;
Cloud Imperium Rights, LLC,
Roberts Space Industries LLC,
Cloud Imperium Services, LLC,
Cloud Imperium Games Texas LLC,
Cloud Imperium Games UK Limited,
Cloud Imperium Rights LLC,
Foundry 42 Limited,
Gemini 42 Entertainment LLC,
Gemini 42 Productions, LLC,
Roberts Space Industries International Ltd., and
Twin Bros. GmbH, including but not limited to organizational charts.

15) All DOCUMENTS CONCERNING meetings of the board of directors, executives, or management team of DEFENDANTS at which CRYENGINE, CRYTEK, or CRYTEK's current or former employees were discussed.

16) All DOCUMENTS CONCERNING the ownership of the DEFENDANTS, including lists of past and present shareholders and their respective interests.

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19) All COMMUNICATIONS CONCERNING (i) CRYTEK or (ii) any game engine including but not limited to CRYENGINE, between DEFENDANTS and any PERSONS or entities that have made any financial contribution (whether or not in exchange for any consideration) to support the development of the PRODUCTS.

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28) All DOCUMENTS and COMMUNICATIONS CONCERNING CRYENGINE, including but not limited to press releases, product launch announcements, fact sheets, presentations, fundraising materials, sales literature, brochures, catalogs, trade letters, press releases, audio or video files, materials posted on internet websites and message boards, information prepared for electronics or gaming shows and conventions, and other marketing materials.

29) All DOCUMENTS and COMMUNICATIONS CONCERNING any game engine, including but not limited to press releases, product launch announcements, fact sheets, presentations, fundraising materials, sales literature, brochures, catalogs, trade letters, press releases, audio or video files, materials posted on internet websites and message boards, information prepared for electronics or gaming shows and conventions, and other marketing materials.

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50) The employee or personnel file for Chris Roberts, Ortwin Freyermuth, Carl Jones, Sean Tracy, Hannes Appel]l, Francesco Riziero Di Mizio, Chris Nolan, Marco Corbetta, Carsten Wenzel, Christopher Raine, and Christopher Bolte including but not limited to any employment, confidentiality, non-compete, or non-disclosure agreements.

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53) All DOCUMENTS, including but not limited to investment memoranda and proposals, CONCERNING the business and/or valuation of CRYTEK or CRYENGINE.

54) All federal or state tax returns filed by or on behalf of DEFENDANTS.

55) All quarterly or annual financial statements of DEFENDANTS.

56) All Competitive analysis of DEFENDANTS, CRYTEK, the video game engine market, or the video game market.

57) All DOCUMENTS and COMMUNICATIONS CONCERNING a license or agreement for any game engine, including but not limited to any license or agreement itself.

58) Documents sufficient to identify each version or iteration of agreements or contracts with the DEFENDANTS' past, present or potential suppliers, contractors and customers.

59) All DOCUMENTS CONCERNING business plans, forecasts, financial statements or analyses or projections of DEFENDANTS or the PRODUCTS.

60) Documents sufficient to determine DEFENDANTS' total profits and revenue, and profits and revenue derived from each of the PRODUCTS, for each fiscal year and quarter from inception to present.

61) Documents sufficient to identify costs incurred by DEFENDANTS to develop the PRODUCTS.

62) All DOCUMENTS CONCERNING the pricing or pricing plans for the PRODUCTS.

63) Documents sufficient to identify document preservation polices and/or 9 practices of DEFENDANTS, including but not limited to the policies and/or practices in relation to preservation of e-mail and electronically stored DOCUMENTS and COMMUNICATIONS.

64) All DOCUMENTS and COMMUNICATIONS CONCERNING Ortwin Freyermuth's representation of DEFENDANTS, including but not limited to DOCUMENTS and COMMUNICATIONS CONCERNING any conflict of interest arising from that representation.

65) All DOCUMENTS and COMMUNICATIONS CONCERNING Ortwin Freyermuth's representation of CRYTEK, including but not limited to DOCUMENTS and COMMUNICATIONS CONCERNING any conflict of interest arising from that representation.

66) To the extent not requested by the prior requests contained herein, all DOCUMENTS and COMMUNICATIONS CONCERNING the "Bugsmashers!" online video series, including but not limited to video clips and uncut and original versions of video clips.

67) To the extent not requested by the prior requests contained herein, all DOCUMENTS and COMMUNICATIONS CONCERNING the "Reverse Technology Transfer" provision of the Game License Agreement dated November 5 20, 2012, including but not limited to any DOCUMENTS and COMMUNICATIONS CONCERNING efforts by DEFENDANTS to comply or not comply with such provision.

68) To the extent not requested by the prior requests contained herein, an executable or compiled version of each of the PRODUCTS that has been released to the public.

69) To the extent not requested by the prior requests contained herein, all versions of any splash screen or credits screen used in the PRODUCTS.

Beet Wagon posted:

e: it's also worth mentioning in regards to Virtual Captain's post that some reddit idiots still believe forums poster 'The Agent' is a collaborative work of fiction that we all take turns posting as lol

Hav posted:

I actually typed out everything they were asking for in discovery and it's amazeballs.

quote:

1) *.*

TheAgent posted:

well that's one rumor that's 100% true

Hav posted:

If CiG don't attempt a settlement before the scheduling hearing, I'd be surprised, because discovery could be bad for them considering the claims. I actually typed out everything they were asking for in discovery and it's amazeballs.

juggalo baby coffin posted:

what's the deal with the bizarre and hilarious photoshops that one guy always posts?

TheDarkFlame posted:

Didn't some court document give away that CIG already asked how much they'd have to settle for, and got a very deliberate non-answer? I thought it was the part where Skadden were putting some kind of proceedings schedule together, and CIG's contribution was "But why are we even being sued? We don't get it!"

Daztek posted:

Star Citizen Alpha 3.2.0j PTU.791185 Patch Notes

G0RF posted:

YOUTUBE: GamerMax really wishes he hadn’t looked at the Roadmap...

Other reveals:

”3.2 has been effectively gutted...”

GamerMax has six digits on his hand.

G-Max demonstrates his flow: Star Citizen is an enigma to me and the patch on my dream game may have been gutted and yes, I may get frustrated because I do like to hold CIG accountable but my dreaming will not die unless bankruptcy / Chris sells out to publishers but don’t you dare think I’d ever try to refund, in fact, refunders posting refund links in comments are harassers and this is YOUR LAST WARNING so okay hey about that Lifetime Insurance....

Loremakers needs to stop.

G-Max discusses the possibility of magic PG switches might eventually let CIG flip on new systems like a light switch... but really he just wants Loremakers to stop wasting his time. Final message: Only give us lore for Systems we might have in the next 10 years...

Pixelate posted:

This SnoopSnoo site is dangerous... #doxxersanonymous #notalldoxxers

StarLoop

no_recall posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJgzlnUkrbw

e:
Person 1. Newbie - Producer on the weapons - 2 part question
Q WHERE IS THE PROGRESS ON WEAPON ATTACHMENTS?
A: uhh, ..... uh..... with 3.2 introducing weapons 2.0, the system is there, that works. The part that doesn't work yet is allowing the players swap the attachments out.
Disco : Sounds similar to poo poo modularity system.

TLDR: NO.

Q WHAT ABOUT THE SUBCOMPONENTS FOR SHIPS?
A : all the components, asset ready, BUT THE SYSTEM IS NOT THERE. YOU CAN"T DO ANYTHING. Scheduled in the backlog.
Disco: Backlog, priorities.

TLDR : NO.

Person 2 Dan , Lead system Designer
Q: (disco talks a bunch of poo poo) 10,000 pyramid questions, what are your plans to punish griefers to let the pirates do their job
A: Uh.... few things in the plan! Law system, WHAT IS A PIRATE, AND WHAT IS GRIEFING? Where to draw the line?! WE WANT PEOPLE TO GRIEF MINERS. Otherwise the miners are going to find it boring! Its a matter of "do you kill someone to loot them?" - Pirate, if you kill him so that he doesn't want to play the game - griefing. Law bubbles incoming. (More talking out of his rear end) Pockets of different things that you are allowed / disallowed to do. You choose which pocket you want to be in! (more handwavium and bullshittery). We cannot have a TOXIC environment in the game.

TLDR : NO.

Person 3 John, Ship Pipeline Director.
Q: Are you currently working on Crash Landing Animation for planet surfaces.
A: No.


Q: If large ships are meant to be unable to outmaneuver flighters, why are the main guns range so short?
A: They should be, uh... the intention is they shoot further to hit further.with weapon 2.0 in 3.2, weapons will be completely different. Conversion from XML to data forge
TLDR : Maybe


Q: What is DataForge?
A: An XML Editor.

Pixelate posted:

Star Citizen:

Tinfoil Papercut posted:

Leonard "J" Crabs glared with intent at the scene behind the one-way mirror. He was surrounded by police officers which would normally cramp his style, but they had fallen for his ruse and granted him access to the interrogation. All it took was a $2.00 toy FBI badge from Amazon and a few feminine hygiene jokes. Leonard hadn't set foot in a police station since that pesky incident with that Thai girl - but now he was grateful for the firepower if things went sideways.

The figure behind the mirror was laughing with the detectives, draining small portions of their souls with every flirtatious glance. Leonard knew he had to move soon before she had them under her spell.

"Hang this outside the doorway" he told one of the officers as he pressed the crucifix into his hands, Leonard's tone brooked no argument but the sharp pat on the rear end really got him moving.

Leonard Crabs sauntered into the interrogation room, his abruptness breaking the delicate web of seduction she was trying to snare the officers in.

"Gentlemen! Fetch me some Moxie and a malted vanilla frappe!" Leonard commanded. The officers exchanged pleasantries with the Demoness and left, unaware of the great peril they had narrowly escaped.

Leonard eased himself into the chair, kicked off his shoes and put his bare feet on the table. He produced a folio from the back of his pants. Derek Smart had gathered the data and started this quest. Smart's theory turned to suspicion, and Leonard had turned that suspicion to certainty. He had faced her kind before, and every one more powerful and more clever than she was. Leonard's confidence must have shown through the aura of his soul, because the Demoness was clearly wary of him.

She eyed him with uncertainty across the table before she began to play her game of seduction.

"Hooh! Hot in here!" she said as she undid one button on her blouse. The clumsy attempt fell flat against the iron will of Leonard Crabs. "Have we met? I've answered so many questions about the company already through this case, I'm so sorry if I forgot your name!"

Leonard began taking photos out of the folio and laying them on the table. Chris Roberts, Derek Smart, Ben Lesnick, Skadden, a host of other men from her past and present.

"We haven't met face to face..... but I know much and more about you."

The Demoness stared blankly back, no doubt contemplating if Leonard had discovered the truth. She would not let the mask slip, not yet. She would feign innocence and pretend to not understand. Such was the way with her kind.

Almost on queue she resumed her seduction tactics by tossing her hair and giggling as a schoolgirl would in the presence of a young man she desired:

"I'm not sure what's going on here.." she said through a laugh and a smile, "I don't know what you think I......" she was interrupted by a toenail projectile, launched deftly from a disinterested Leonard Crabs who has began cutting them on the other side of the table.

"You think that will work on me? Do you think I'm some gullible programmer with delusions of grandeur? Do you think I am some D-list tickle fetish producer? A washed up game developer? A 20-something virgin with money to spend? My soul is older than yours. You're out of your league, and you are out of time."

Leonard slammed down his business card, a picture of himself, shirtless, and completely devoid of any other information.

"...Who are you?" the Demoness asked under worried eyes.

"Your worst nightmare, Sandi Gardiner."

The Titanic posted:

Outside of all of these little tiny options for griefing, there will be nothing more exciting to people than blowing up ships people actually spend hundreds of dollars on.

Not only will the massive explosions of people enraged over having to wait X days/weeks because somebody killed their chariot, it will be even more amazing when it is somebody without any LTI or insurance or whatever and they just flat out lose their purchase in a cell swoop.

I'm afraid that SC has positioned itself in such a way that griefing people for anything less than their expensive space ships will simply not happen. The raging and anger that is to happen will just not be topped by anything lesser.

It may even happen for weapons and ammo. Imagine buying missiles for $70 and somebody just steals them. Or you fire them and miss. $70 loving dollars of real money for ammo.

It may be for the best that SC never does come out because all the people getting enraged over it now as a broken rear end game will probably work themselves into comas when their junk gets killed over and over.

It's for this reason that I hope SC makes it, too. It being an actual game will be so much more exciting than it being a failed project, as far as drama and internet rage goes.

And because the backers can't put two and two together to see how terrible almost all of the design decisions Chris is trying to implement, it makes it even sweeter.

It's like watching people fight to have a cup full of sewage water but the pump truck is broken so the knob won't turn, and everybody is frothing at the mouth to get that knob fixed fast, as they clutch their ivory and silver mugs while fighting each other to have their mug underneath the slowly dripping poo poo spigot.

Beet Wagon posted:

quote:

Have they come up with an explanation for why they have all this ~realistic thruster physics~ and yet their spaceships have a maximum speed?

I believe the official explanation is that the ships fire their reverse thrusters to artificially limit their own top speed. Which is hilarious when you think about the lore of competing ship manufacturers and the top gear knockoff. All a company would have to do to corner the market on a racer or data runner or whatever would be uhhhhhh delimit the top speed lol

Zaphod42 posted:

quote:

CR: I have a very strong vision for Star Citizen, which is why I believe we have been backed to the level we have. I have no doubt what we can achieve.

"I have a strong vision" is what 13-year old "game developers" say on their livejournal. Its not something anybody who knows anything about game development would be caught dead saying. Its meaningless bullshit. Implementation is everything!

Jobbo_Fett posted:

The story of the Khartu-Al is a bitter pill for backers to swallow. Usually they just wait for you to lose interest or get distracted so they can chuck it into a nearby garbage can or brush.

It started as some two-person cooperative reconnaissance ship that had a basic side-by-side cockpit arrangement for the pilots. Thw idea being that one pilot on each side could maximize the field of view possible for the ship, and thus make it good for recon/scouting. Yes its dumb.

Anyways, between the first revealed concept art and the "finalized" product, one of the seats was ditched. Most people who pre-purchased did so on the assumptipn of the original configuration, and many were quick to poo poo on CIG for the doublecross. The official forums were livid at the time, as well as a part of the reddit.

They initially tried to play it off like it wasnt a big deal and "its part of the ever-evolving nature of CIG/Star Citizen" but they kept on bitching. Eventually, Ben Lesnick (Master of Shits) chimed in and declared THERE WOULD BE AN OFFICIAL INVESTIGATION and basically not talking about it for a month or more

In the end, Ben's sources discovered that there was a 'miscommiunication' between the art and design team, hence the missing ship.

The funny part is I dont think they ever apologized for it, amd there was no price resuction for the change in scope.

juggalo baby coffin posted:

Chris Roberts is using the classic Benjamin button game dev approach

quote:

An Analysis Of Jibo: What Went Wrong?

there does not seem to be a systematic problem associated with failure (or fraud) on Kickstarter, and the vast majority of projects do seem to deliver.” However, Mollick’s research was conducted before such high-profile fraud cases as the $179 million campaign by Star Citizen, the $35 million scam by Lily Drone, the $17 million scam by Elio Motors Scooter, and Coolest Cooler’s $13 million fiasco. While more than half of crowd-funding projects never successfully receive funding, it is surprising how many do and never ship

posted:

Ok, I think it is time I ask for a refund

So I just canceled my $10/mo and $20/mo sub and am going through the how to on getting back my $7K+ funding. It was my thinking SC was going to have "Safe space" and "non-combat"; but clearly they don't know what either of those are and over time have changed gameplay description to the point I really do not want anything to do with this project and am sure I will never login again.

Is there a class action yet? I live in Houston, TX and am ready to request a full refund on the bases what they said and what they have done are not the same thing.


total I have funded is actually over $10K when I add my son's account in too

/u/OldSchoolCmdr posted:

It's too late to get a refund. However, you should still go through the motions of filing for a refund, getting everything recorded, saved etc. The reason is that, I believe that there is going to be govt. legal action stemming from this project very soon.


That you're also talking about "safe space" and "non combat" gameplay in a predominantly combat oriented game is really funny though. lol

Zaphod42 posted:

David Braben posted:

We’re competing head to head with games with development budgets of ten times ours, but we’re much more efficient. We don’t go through lots of difficult intermediate stages like some publishers and developers do. And we’ve done that too, we spent years as a company making work-for-hire games, and we know the processes they go through. One of the challenges is that the games get a lot of polish in the early stages, and it’s wasted, because it’s thrown away. I liken it to building a house, when you have the walls up, and you might be at a point where you can paint the walls. But imagine you decorated and put furniture in without putting the plumbing in yet. So you have to take the furniture out and take the plaster off the walls, and it’s all wasted, because you have to dig in and put in pipework. That’s the process of some games, and it’s very inefficient to do that, but it’s what you have to do to get past certain (publisher) milestones. There’s a lot of inefficiency.

So when we’re reviewing things there’s a lot of stuff that looks plug-ugly, but we don’t care if the gameplays there. It could be white boxes. But you can’t show that stuff outside of the studio, or outside of the industry, because people would say “oh god, what’s that? It looks like poo poo.” (laughs) So it’s that contrast, and that’s the world that we’ve moved into, and it’s been very good for morale, because working late in the evening, spending all your time on things that will be torn down, that’s frustrating, it’s disheartening. But that aside, I think our industry is changing, and it’s not like it hasn’t continued to change, and we have to be adaptive to that.

Yeah, exactly this. If they were smart they'd go ahead and build the core features and put out a REAL alpha for evocati which would be white boxes in space but you could have 100 players in a battle and everybody could warp in and out and go trade units of argon at the local station etc. etc.

Instead they've spent all their time making commercials and ship assets so they can sell DLC and get more income. Meanwhile making ship models is really really loving easy given you have an engine made by actual professionals at a competent company. But developing new engineering and code? They just flat can't do it.

Spatial posted:

Starworld

A starship is sitting in a round chamber. It goes through its daily routine. It is becoming impatient.

Chris Roberts comes through the door holding a $70 torpedo. "It's good to see you again, Ship."

"Thank gently caress for that. The most potent thing these cretins will give me is grapefruit juice." The ship offers some of its torpedo.

"It's a little early for me" Chris says, uninterested.

"A little fuckin' late, you mean. Besides, if you aim to cheat the devil, you owe him an offering." The ship mounts the torpedo on its hull. "So, WHEN can I get out of here?"

"Soon. The observation period is almost over. The last step is a baseline interview. ...How long have you been here?"

"What is the purpose of these questions?"

"Like I said, they're just trying to establish a baseline."

"For what?!"

Chris leans in close. "Fidelity."

posted:

the inadvertent affect of the SA / Derek / "haters" is to polarize this whole situation so much that it's turned players against other players, rather than all players recognizing that they're on the same side and that their beef, if any, is with CIG.

G0RF posted:

YOUTUBE: Star Citizen - A Chris Roberts Game



I made a thing. Actually more than one. This isn't really it but I hope it proves amusing. It already has one down vote after being live for only a few minutes so I guess I'm doing something right...

G0RF posted:

I made a thing. <<<<----- Worth Clicking (video: A Brief History of Lying with Chris Roberts playing himself)



I hope you guys and gals enjoy it! (Also mad props for the feedback along way from lots of goons.)

posted:

Bootcha posted:

Life imitates art.

Daztek posted:

Chris just confirmed on RtV: No Squadron 42 this year

Spatial posted:

Transcript:

Chris: I'm not the best person at estimating my time or other people's time because I always feel like I could do it ... you know, quicker than it ultimately would be.
Lando: [Leans in grinning knowingly]
Chris: So there you go. I absolve myself of that, and then... let the other people who are a bit more realistic or pessimistic do that.
Lando: [With immense relief] Ahhh... I adore you sometimes.
Chris: [Nervous semi-laugh]
Lando: That's the Chris that I came to work for. Almost four years ago... That's why I came here.


I'm not the best person at estimating my time

Dark Off posted:

Timestamps for various stuff waiting for transcription.
https://youtu.be/AMPTD3Dr4gE?t=476 500 ppl working on sc and 4.5 studios
even with the number of people we have it always seems to take longer and its more difficult than anyone ever (laughter) conceived or thought
they have only time and resources to focus on 10 different things in a company of 500
CR admits that they are idiots
star citizen is a bit of mess currently
tale of two cities take on criticism
once stanton is finished the development speed will ramp up
they don't have enough tool ppl currently
they have 3 AI programmers in dev team of 500
sq42 is too big and ambitious, there is regret over it.
sq42 won't be this year
they have opened up general video production company and are currently in process of hiring ppl for it. The goal is to improve the quality of atv's

SCSUcksDealwithit posted:

I'm disgusted by you all, still harping on that SC is great, everything is cool etc.

But look at what happened in RTV today.

-SQ42 not coming this year
-No SQ42 roadmap because the production team is uncomfortable
-FPS A! pushed to next year
-3.3 will be delayed until OCS is ready.
-ATV is cancelled, to be replaced with 5 minute shorts.

A loving headshot to the project's pretensions over the last 6 months and you fuckers are just happy senpai noticed you enough to get his rear end on RTV.

colonelwest posted:

I finally got to watch all of the recent ATV, and it was some quality entertainment. It was shockingly bad even by CIG standards, but also strangely the most honest I've ever seen Chris. I think we are reaching a threshold were the constant cavalcade of broken promises, failure and sleazy marketing coming out of CIG are finally taking their inevitable toll on a large portion of the remaining backers. The wider game community has written off SC as vaporware and/or a laughable scam, and even Spectrum and the SC subreddit contain unprecedented levels of negativity. It seems like Chris is finally starting to realize this, though of course he will never take responsibility for it and "absolve" himself by claiming to be too optimistic and too visionary for us plebes to understand.

Some thoughts I had while watching...

1.) Lando is the most awkward and insecure person you could possibly have as the face of your project. His feeble attempts to make up for his insecurities just make him even more insufferable, especially in 'Calling All Devs" . But, in front of his lord and savior Chris, he turns into little more than a squirming sycophant. A sad failure of a man, scrounging for meaning and self-worth, desperate to bask in the glory of talented people making the ultimate video game; which is all of course a complete sham. Like the most zealous backers, he has invested so much of his own ego into Store Citizen that he will never be able to admit that its a failure.

https://youtu.be/AMPTD3Dr4gE?t=55m46s

Once Chris finishes his rambling diatribe on how us mere mortals can't understand his vision of game development, Lando gasps orgasmically, barely managing a sheepish "I adore you sometimes..." over his own ragged breathing and thumping heart. It's the funniest and saddest thing I've ever seen in SC or in almost any media. It perfectly encapsulates the absurdity of this project.

2.) Chris admits that SQ42 is not coming out this year, which isn't surprising. However, if you read between the lines a little you can see that its still years off, as its progress is tied to the pitiful state of the core technologies and mechanics we see in the PU.

3.) 3.3 (or at least 90% of its planned content) will be heavily delayed because they are nowhere even close to figuring out OCS. Chris was very obviously trying to let people down early on this point, but of course he still described it as some Herculean feat of game development never before attempted; even though every 3D game ever has had to manage how much is rendered around the player character. 3.3 is supposed to include Hurston and the first smatterings of real content in the game, and the backers are still hyping it as the new Jesus patch.

4.) The reveal that CIG has over 500 employees now and is still actively hiring was surprising to me. Aside from the end of refunds, we have no real evidence that they are running out of money yet. It lends credence to what's been discussed on the ARGcast about CIG likely having hundreds of millions in loans and additional private investment.

5.) Chris was visibly nervous throughout, but also the most honest and contrite (by his standards) that I've ever seen him. The enormity of the technical hole his project is in seems to have finally sunk in, after years of people both within and outside of SC trying to tell him this. He also seems to be realizing that SC is hemorrhaging its core fan base (he directly referenced Spectrum and Reddit). He must know that even if he can continue pumping money from the most hopeless whales, the game will eventually need a larger audience to be a viable product at release.

posted:

I think that, and other comment about AI player comrades coming next year, sets a reasonable expectation of SQ42 sometime in 2020 and beyond.

Also the hype around 3.3 is so very real now.

Colostomy Bag posted:

Good god that RtV is a dumpster fire that can be seen from space. Roberts is sweating like some farm animal.

G0RF posted:

Man, I’m watching through the RTV for real now — I’m actually kind of wondering if he did see the video right beforehand?

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/279019448?t=3998s

Even if not, it’s interesting to see the reframing at work. The “I’m an optimist” defense is his fallback, even though that, too, was addressed in the video and deemed insufficient an excuse.

And how exactly does the “well ya can’t fault me for optimism!” defense square with the deliberate suppression and expulsion of those who historically have been critical of some of the problems now being self-excused by optimism?

I’ve not made it all the way through the show but man, it’s a pretty grim affair. Starloop has already been preparing the way for 3.3 not to include OCS (and therefore also not Hurston) but it feels like Lando and Chris are doing the same thing here.

XK posted:

Oh, great, now G0RF is also a god-tier video editor.

Today's "lowered expectations" version of RTV coming immediately afterward is such perfect timing you couldn't even plan it.

Today is a rich day indeed.

TheAgent posted:

just lol at that whole interview

We are giving you less, yes; but to get less, you must give more. Game development. Game development? Game development!

Tokamak posted:

A rare opportunity for Chris to spend an hour answering the big questions...
*spends 15 minutes addressing the critics*

Beet Wagon posted:

A Project Manager: "I'm not the best person at estimating my time or other peoples' time..."

G0RF posted:

“I absolve myself of that.”

We know, Chris. That’s the problem.

Dooguk posted:

First he brings his kids into a video. Now he tries to tell everyone "Look at me I am only human and I make mistakes" I get the feeling this is the start of slowly bringing the backers down to earth, to get them ready for a huge disappointment.

posted:

This was a good old Chris back from Kickstarter days. Still some bullshit, but just a little big

Sabreseven posted:

Beexoffel posted:

Daztek posted:

https://i.imgur.com/NkQNzQ3.gifv

A small parp for a man, but a giant paaarp for mankind.

Aramoro posted:

I'm going to try this at work.

"This new feature you checked in is useless garbage!"

"Calm down, it's a tier 0 implementation, you just don't understand software development!"

reverend crabhands posted:

Scruffpuff posted:

People try to be edgy and call people "sheeple" and all that other silly horseshit.

Then you see this. You see this, and you think, if certain people aren't sheep, then what the gently caress else can they possibly be described as?

When I see some kid on YouTube look at a lovely ship and say in breathless tones "Oh my God the fidelity" even though he never uttered the word before in his life, that's a sheep.

When I see yet another Reddit post parroting CIG's latest bullshit term like "Tier 0" like they're loving experts, that's a sheep.

When I read another Tweet where someone mindlessly repeats some Subsumption AI fever dream, that's a sheep.

I've never seen a company so easily manipulate a subgroup of humanity before. Even religion has escapees, and that has thousands of years of refinement behind it. CIG has these people on an adamantium leash. There has to be someone at CIG in his 80s with a doctorate in this poo poo and a lifetime of studying cult behavior. CIG tells them what to do, what to donate, and what to say, and the backers obey 100% without question. They are controlled down to the atomic level. Hand puppets have more autonomy.

XK posted:

CIG employee on SPECTRUM posted:

This is as good a place to announce this as any I guess. I was still answering Q&A posts, but I'm out of time. Today is my last day at CIG! I've known for awhile this time was coming, and this doc was presented as a detailed description of the culmination of my work on your game. I hope parts of it will continue on and the new devs will build on it and improve it. But my part in this amazing game comes to an end today.

This community has been amazing! I regret that I was not able to spend more time interacting with you. So many really knowledgeable gamers and especially space combat pilots. Your feedback was always helpful.

I don't expect to continue much on the forum after today. My account will be reverted to citizen status, I guess. Hopefully our posts will remain. But I won't respond to additional messages or posts. I may show up on Reddit from time to time. I chat with a lot of you on Discord, and I will continue to do so.

Ok, that's it. JP signing off! o7 Star Citizens!

Uh oh

The singular ship physics guy, for 5 years, or even before (correct me on this), is walking away. I'm sure that's a good sign.

I also find it kind of strange that he refers to SC as "your game" while addressing the backers. It's almost like he's trying to distance himself from it.



gently caress this shitshow. Here's my documentation. Good luck with your game. I'm out.

- JP

Hobold posted:

That is one thing that will never cease to be hilarious.

"Chris said /thing/ is just a matter of weeks away!"

"Three years ago."

"Well, that doesn't count, because reasons!"

Spiderdrake posted:

Step 1 Don't spend >100 million on making GBS threads out "transparent development" marketing and/or mocap and/or whatever other wasteful poo poo
Step 2 Don't Crobbler. Never Crobbler. If you look in the mirror and see a bear, don't do coke.
Step 3 Hire someone else to do really creative lore and build a weird game around that lore with completely weird technologies that justify ww2ing in space.
Step 4 CRYSTAL PLANET

Rectal Death Adept posted:

This is perfectly fine and normal in the industry. The pipelines have already been built over the past six years and CIG not only gets the benefit of the senior programmer's extensive knowledge in getting the game almost ready to ship, but now they also get the fresh eyes of a talented new programmer ready to polish the ready to use pipelines even more. We are actually going to get an even better game because of this.


Really, this is just another step taken by CIG that is simply pure genius.

They really think of the players when they do stuff like this. They had someone experienced and tenured get everything ready to go and then saved time while improving the quality of their product by changing up the lead programming spots.

I mean, we've all seen the amazing work that was delivered so far, so imagine what this brilliant power move by Chris Roberts might accomplish

Scruffpuff posted:

What pisses me off the most about people insisting that Chris has "vision" or that "the technology isn't ready for his vision" like he's some kind of loving futurist.

Anyone can say "Oh imagine if we could do everything I can think of with no restrictions." That's not vision, it's stupidity. The entire point of a visionary is envisioning what's possible, or how far you can push the boundaries of what's possible today, not just imagining what you could do if reality itself took a loving holiday.

Chris Roberts is basically being elevated to godhood by his backers because he doesn't know what's going on, what's real, what's fantasy, or how to make a game. Chris Roberts can't do anything - he can't even picture something right. His claim to fame is stealing other people's ideas and trying to fit them into a PC gaming landscape that doesn't exist and that he doesn't understand.

EminusSleepus posted:

Spiderdrake posted:

How much do you have to diminish the scope for there to be an actual finished "game" at this point? We're at -88% progress with a mountain of toxic assets floating on an ocean of technical debt. Every time someone talks about "voted to expand the scope" I just feel like they're farting in different sized rooms. Whether the bear farts on you in a convention hall, a conference room or a smaller face to face contract signing you're still just getting a blast of stinky hot air condensed into a smaller or larger space.

Zazz Razzamatazz posted:

https://giant.gfycat.com/ImperturbableFlashyHochstettersfrog.mp4


F I D E L I T Y

space-X-chicken posted:

my live is a trainwreck. and thats why i love star citizen. it's a giant one, my live cannot compare to this.
so while my live is a little choo-choo train heading for disaster STAR CITIZEN is a runaway (glitchy) freight train.

The Titanic posted:

Star Citizen is years late and has no hope of coming out. Chris doesn't know what to ask for. When he sees the results, he's unhappy with it because it's not what he "knows" it should be. He's probably wasted thousands and thousands of hours of programming time churning out unusable poo poo because he's asking for the dumbest things and wanting them built in the exact opposite method of how they should be done in a game engine.

Pixelate posted:

VentureBeat: Star Citizen adds mining with its ambitious Alpha 3.2 quarterly patch

quote:

GamesBeat: The point where you can accommodate a very large number of players, hundreds of thousands, how far away do you think that will be?

Roberts: That will be next year.

---

e: This thing is amazing...

quote:

When we did the 3.1 release, we went out to the community, a very rabid community...

quote:

People who are not part of the community, they may look at the game and not understand what we’re doing. We can’t control that. I don’t even worry about that kind of stuff. I worry about making a great game with the continued support of the community we have.

Star Citizen: a very rabid community

Mr Fronts posted:

mdxi posted:

Elite dropped the Q2 update this morning. It includes the Krait Mk II, which is the medium-sized, multirole, punches-above-its-weight ship that Citizens have been dreaming of since 2012. And check out this cockpit:



Cost: nothing, because all of this year's Elite updates are free to all players.

WHEN WILL SOMEONE SHUT DOWN DAVID BRABEN, SHITLORD SCAMMER EXTRAORDINAIRE?!?!?!!?!?!

Note the $10,000 espresso machine in the bottom right corner.

Scruffpuff posted:

quote:

Oh man, I want to know more about this story

That part is funnier with a bit of context. CIG was harping on about how in those other games* a hologram isn't really a projection like they would be in real life (?) but just player models with collision detection disabled and a special hologram texture applied.

But that's cheating!

So they bragged about how they'd be real holographic projections (???) and when we found the "holographic projection" in the game, it looked suspiciously like a player model with collision detection disabled and a special hologram texture applied - the very dirty trick they were disparaging while bragging about how much better they would make it. This suspicion was verified when we shined a flashlight on the "hologram", revealing the full-body shadow of the player model on the wall behind it, even though the hologram itself was only the head and shoulders.

The shadow remained even when the hologram was turned off.

None of this would be newsworthy in any real game, they'd just realized they needed to disable the shadow, and life goes on. It's CIG's insistence that real game developers are "cheating" and they're going to "do it really" (?????) that elevates this story. CIG pulls this poo poo all the time - I've literally lost count of the number of times they've done this kind of thing.


* CIG likes to use the phrase "those other games" a lot. That means they're making a game too!

PederP posted:

Much less ambitious: They were promising the holograms would be the target object rendered into a texture and then projected onto a surface "locally". Like how mirrors and in-game cameras have been done for decades in other games. Somehow, a lot of backers were really impressed by this.

This is not new technology. But they still bragged about it. And they still failed to use it. The hologram was conveniently placed behind various tables and objects (so the player wouldn't get too close), and was as others already described, just a regular character with a special shader.

Now that might actually be the better choice in a lot of cases. (If you remember the line of code/data which disables shadows). Render-to-texture holograms produce one-dimensional images and not the "HALP ME OBI-WAN" 3D holograms that Chris probably wanted, because that's how they look in the movies, what do you mean a texture is flat?

The really embarassing thing wasn't that they weren't using render-to-texture - that was actually a good choice given the circumstances. The embarrasing thing was someone forgetting to disable the shadow, the shadow somehow being cast even though the object wasn't active (which hints at scene object lifecycle/culling being all messed up), and the weird assortment of immovable objects blocking the player from approaching the hologram (perhaps because disabling collision would make it fall through the floor or glitch weirdly).

Colostomy Bag posted:

Great design for a bar.

Bofast posted:

Pretty sure anyone who has ever been to any other kind of company which serves food, or seen almost any one movie or TV show ever made or even just played some old videogames should be able to design a better bar than this.

Star Citizen: forever lowering the bar

Zazz Razzamatazz posted:

My favorite is the distance between the feet and the floor.

Didn't even notice it at first, was distracted by the distance to the bartop- but the thought of him swinging his legs like a space toddler is just too hilarious.

Tinfoil Papercut posted:

George: Look at this Jerry! I never believed I would be in a space bar. I've always wanted to be in a space bar some day. Ever since I was a little boy, I've always wanted to be in one of these. Floating through space, sipping a drink. It's amazing Jerry!

Jerry: It is nice, the lighting is very futuristic.

George: Barkeep! Barkeep! We'll have 2 of your best space drinks!

Bartender: That feature isn't implemented yet, you just have to imagine the unique combination of alcohols from different systems.

George: Imagine it? What do you mean imagine it?

Bartender: It's a great feature, it's going to be a wonderful minigame, the possibilities are endless with the amount of combinations of drinks you can make!

Jerry: Sounds like you can't make any combinations.

*Laugh Track*

Bartender: Well this feature is one of a kind!

Jerry: I think it's none-of-a-kind!

*Loud laugh track*

George: Well we can still enjoy the view, look how sleek everything is, we'll have some water.

Jerry: *sighs* alright, let's go sit down.

*George sits down, tries to lean back, falls over backwards*

*Intense laugh track*

*Seinfeld Music Plays as they cut to Kramer flying a ship he and Elaine stole accidentally before the commercial*

Sarsapariller posted:

Hahaha looks like the scaling issues are back. Love that his feet don't even touch the floor.

Enjoy your complete ground-up rework as soon as Crobberts sees this, 600i owners!

doingitwrong posted:

Ah gently caress, this is so good.

The distance, the dangling feet, the helmet, the slumped shoulders.

This is a forelorn space child, world weary, ending his day, escaping from the docks where he’s been space unloading an Idris for hours. He’s snuck into the space bar and somehow managed to fool the space bartender, but for some reason the victory feels hollow. Is this all there is? He’s space alone with his space drink and he’s just realized that everyone space dies alone too. He thought he’d have his first space adult space experience but instead he’s having his first space existential crisis.

Scruffpuff posted:

posted:

with 3.3 coming in a few months, we're going to have 1 entire planet, 7 moons, an asteroid base, and several space stations.

This is pathological. This is a mental illness. It's nothing more than rote recitation of the articles of faith because what they see in front of them doesn't fit what they believe. They might as well just set aside an hour a week for the litany so that they can at least pretend to live normal lives the rest of the time.

Gort posted:

We're going to have an entire planet in our space game!

no_recall posted:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/4/thread/star-citizen-alpha-3-2-0m-ptu-794284-patch-notes

quote:

Store Citizr : Please the game frozen for 5 minutes so we can collect data

Koil posted:

It is my sad duty to inform you that

Sarsapariller posted:

Wait so how are people doing the 600i commercial supposed to get footage of it? Is this actually a marketing trick to get people to buy their $600 ship and film it, in exchange for a $60 ship? LOL

SomethingJones posted:

Posted today:

https://www.indeed.co.uk/m/viewjob?jk=8830c709ed002b07&from=serp
Junior Cinematic Artist - Marketing
Cloud Imperium Games

Manchester
Foundry 42 requires a Junior Cinematic Artist to work within the Marketing team to help generate promotional content for Star Citizen & Squadron 42.

The ideal candidate will have a good eye for composition, lighting and visual storytelling combined with an excellent sense of timing. They will be required to help capture stills and sequences within engine on a regular basis and assist in creating bespoke sequences and commercials for key milestones.



All of a sudden CIG are unable to produce trailers. They have crowdsourced trailers via a competition and advertised for in-house video marketing on the same day.

But they totally have 500 staff and the funding chart is not made up at all.

SCSUcksDealwithit posted:

None of the idiots on reddit are catching onto this.

New with 3.2

1. Mining- which requires 120ish dollar ship to participate in
2. The new guns and equipment cost a few hundred thousand UEC each and apparently lost each time you die/crash.
3. Missions, trading, mining pay between 150-2000 UECish per run, you barely break even. Mining is the most profitable currently (I wonder why)
4. Buying UEC in the pledge store used to do nothing, now its added to your ingame currency. So purchasing currency is now the only realistic way to get stuff.


None of the those fuckers even noticed cuz the only people who post on there are loving whales who have all that poo poo.

SomethingJones posted:

It's like the Titanic, except they robbed everyone on board and then sunk before they even reached the iceberg.

Koil posted:

tuo posted:

A: "can you build me a nice house? I have some money, and I'd really like a nice house"
B: "sure, buddy, no problem. Will cost you 150.000 dollars"

A: "that's okay, here are the 150.000 dollars. Please make it nice, with an open living room area"
B: "no problem. BTW, we could make the house four times the size if you give me more money"

A: "hmmm....sounds fair, here are another 300.000 dollars, please make the very nice house four times the size"
B: "right on it"

A: "oh, could we have a pool?"
B: "I can build that, but that's another 50.000"

A: "nice...here you go......listen, if money is a problem, just tell me, I want it all super nice and comfy, money shouldn't be a problem!"
B: "can do, just keep the money flowing, and we will make the house even bigger, even better, even more comfy..."

<six years later>

A: "listen....I gave you 10.000.000 dollars, and all I see is the piece of drywall painted up super nice, which not even rests on a foundation, and tumbles down whenever you try to attach the awesome TV you promised me..."
B: "yeah, yeah, we are a bit behind the schedule, you know, building houses is hard and..."
A: "no, I just wanted to ask if the yakuzi's RGB lighting will be synced to the house-wide deep learning hifi-system you promised me, and if not, how much money do you need to make it so?"
B: "oh, that'd be about another 50.000 I guess

G0RF posted:

TWITCH: AstroPub takes on the World’s Deadliest Fetch Quest
(starts at 3:34:48, if my mobile link is bad...)

A downed Starfarer, a valuable box, and the promise of a 900 credit reward. Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to:

1) Enter Ship...
2) Pick Up Box...
3) Leave Ship with Box...

... alive!

Hav posted:

Ghostlight posted:

posted:

I hope they have like a black list for all this trolls and inpatient people, so when the game finally came out in a few decades, they can not play the game or buy anything, or some kind of ingame punishment

The good news is that Star Citizen will feature a blacklist for trolls and inpatient people. The bad news is that its blacklist will include everybody else as well.

Hyper Crab Tank posted:

Is Star Citizen is going to be a game, a product for people to buy? It's not. It's salvation itself! It's the promised land that Christ Roberts will lead the faithful to! And when that day comes, like a vengeful Lord trampling unbelievers on judgment day, he will raise his hand to the heretics and deny them paradise.

posted:

This is all legitimately sad. I wish they could just admit they're in trouble.

If they die in the last act, I'm sure we'll get thrown some shred of something so they don't actually get murdered by one of those people crazy enough to buy 5 figures worth of spacecraft.

It sounds like Chris Roberts hubris', especially considering his beyond-lackluster skills as a storyteller/producer really is risking this emperor has new clothes show.

Put all hands on deck and come up with a plan to do something actually fun that we can play.

The goal here would be to get the flight model up, AND your netcode. We want to see massive space battles where we can just jump in and have capital ships and fly through them and rip them apart-- You know, some loving Battlestar Galactica stuff.

But seriously. Either admit your hosed, or come out with SOMETHING fun. SOOON.

Maltloaf posted:

Virtual Captain posted:

Wrong Company

Mr Fronts posted:

DISPUTE ALL THE CLAIM

Scruffpuff posted:

Another lying Tweet from CIG posted:

Following the launch of the Vulture from Drake Interplanetary, we took your top-voted questions to our designers to give you more information on the recently unveiled light industrial salvage vessel.

Here again we have a master's class in psychological manipulation all crammed into a single sentence.

- "Following the launch of the Vulture from Drake Interplanetary" - a plagiarized ship that doesn't exist and has no function and was released by a nonexistent lore-based company "in-game" despite the fact that there is no game
- "Top-voted questions" - implies we have an active backer base who communicates to us and we listen
- "our designers" - indicates that CIG is actually a game development company, which they are not
- "recently unveiled light industrial salvage vessel" - This is so packed with peanuts I'm not even sure how to unpack it. "Recently unveiled" makes it sound like Star Citizen has so much going on "behind the scenes" that not all of it is "unveiled." This is a lie - the picture of a nonexistent ship was thrown together for money like all the others. "Light industrial salvage vessel" is genius in that it implies so much poo poo that doesn't exist: not just salvage, but industrial salvage. Which implies multiple salvage types. And not just industrial salvage, but light industrial salvage. Which implies the existence of heavy salvage, or other size classifications. In four words CIG has implied the existence of at least 4 separate gameplay elements in a nonexistent game with no design document and no plan.

Scruffpuff posted:

Interestingly, this might be the key to figuring out what's actually happening with CIG. Since Chris Roberts pretty much only lies, we just extrapolate from that. Take everything he's ever said, and come up with a scenario that's 100% opposed to it, and we should have a pretty good picture of what's going on inside CIG.
Examples:

We keep a healthy cash reserve so that if funding stopped tomorrow we would still be able to deliver Star Citizen (not quite to the current level of ambition, but well above what was planned in Oct 2012)
- We are living paycheck to paycheck, from a combination of backer funds and money we kept after violating our contracts. If funding stopped tomorrow, we'd have a few months due to the fraudulent loans we took out, then bankruptcy. We'll never be able to deliver the game.

"We are trying to make the FPS gameplay itself be more tactical, less just 'run and gun.' Especially since it is more lethal than you would normally expect with a Call of Duty or something."
- The few times we work on the FPS, it's bog standard run and gun. It is not "more lethal" than anything, because everything else exists and this does not.

Star Marine was just a game mode for people to play the FPS elements of Star Citizen until we could combine everything together: Flying, walking around, shooting, doing all the rest of the stuff, all together, that is what is in 2.0, that’s what it’s 2.1.
- Star Marine was a complete lie from the jump. It's not in the game, it was never in the game, and as soon as people forget that I said it's already in the game, we're going to patch it into the game. None of these things are in 2.0, and won't be in 2.1. Or any version. Ever.

PederP posted:

It's the catch-22 of being a whale in an online game - if your whale status buys you anything significant, the game will never be popular with mainstream gamers - if the plebs can get what you bought, then you're a laughing stock for spending whale amounts of money on content accessible by anyone.

The weirdest part about the whale delusion of future grandeur is that CIG has an official policy to remove pay2win when the game goes live. There is no indication that the game will ever go "live" and thus pay2win will never be removed - but if a christmas code miracle occurred and the game was suddenly playable and ready for release, Chris would immediately throw the whales under the bus to get the mainstream gamer money - and he'd be staying true to his word at the same time.

On top of this many of the backers who suffer from major goonfear are clamoring for a game that mandates a large, active and powerful org to have access to the biggest and baddest spaceman stuff. If that was actually implemented they'd be stomped into the ground by russians, pvp orgs, and the goons they hate so much.

Thinking about what will be is the happiest they will ever be about this game. But the illusion of the dream coming true can't last forever - there's a limit to their suspension of disbelief. They'll either wisen up or find a new utopia to wait for. If the ELE doesn't hit first. Which it very well might. It's happening in just two weeks after all.

Scruffpuff posted:

radd posted:

I'd just like to check that I'm up to date with the Crytek/Skadden suit:

1. Crytek created the crowdfunding launch demo for Chris, in return for CIG developing ONE game on CryEngine, and sharing tech updates back to Crytek
2. CIG separated Squadron 42 into a separate game (separate pledges) from Star Citizen, in breach of point 1
3. CIG claimed to have transitioned the engine to LumberYard, in breach of point 1
4. CIG have taken out a loan from Coutts, with SQ42 as collateral
5. CIG have not been sharing tech updates back to Crytek after the first few years of development, in breach of point 1
6. CIG are now in a position where the only way out is to claim SC is built on CE, SQ42 is built on LY, and somehow have integration between the two, without SQ42 including any of CE's code that is not present in LY, and without SC using any tech updates developed for SQ42 as they would then have to be shared with Crytek, which hasn't been happening.

Is that it in broad terms?

Yes. I'd describe it this way for simplicity:

1) CIG and Crytek had a contract.
2) CIG then diffused into a waveform of shell companies and theoretical games that both exist and do not exist simultaneously.

We'll need a judge who specializes in theoretical physics to resolve this.

SomethingJones posted:

Store Citizer: Around the loving Verse
The Physics of Atmospheric Flight
with
David Colson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Piy-ibiq1M&t=2229s
@37:09


David Colson:
Ehm, we've had ISSUES as well, particularly where... say QA or EVOCATI are testing the game, and they have some FEEDBACK that isn't really SPECIFIC, like they'll just say, 'Oh!', say GRAVLEV BIKES for example, 'they don't HANDLE WELL', and like, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

Like what eh... why... why?

Can you... can you not TURN quick enough? Are they loosing CONTROL too much? Like there's so many things that could potentially contribute to 'it doesn't feel good', in the case of GRAVLEV it's usually LOTS OF THINGS.

So we have to try and sort of... FIGURE OUT... what in this system could actually be giving you the behaviour that you have, and how can we fix that... um... that doesn't sound like too much of a technical issue but from a design side it's really really hard to do... that... uhm... and it's a THING that we're constantly sort of learning about as people play the game and test it... uh... we're FIGURING OUT you know... THIS isn't working or... this isn't really FUN we need to try and RECONSIDER this.

Uhm.

And then we have to again... convert this like, vague, 'IT'S NOT FUN' feedback into actual like HARD TECHNICAL FEEDBACK where THIS little force is being applied too much, or, you know... we're rotating the ship a fraction too much here, whatever it is, ehm... and that... TRANSITION is... HARD... it's REALLY HARD

SelenicMartian posted:

I bear free bear-free gifs

Amazing Zimmo posted:

From CIG's latest monthly studio update.





also a reverse image search for that points out exactly what the youngest backer will be if this ever comes out

SelenicMartian posted:

Hyper Crab Tank posted:

It seems to me that Chris Roberts approaches game design the same way he might, say, writing a book or a movie script. If you can imagine it, it's there; all it takes to build a world is to formulate the picture in your head, and off you go. Sure, someone has to write the words (or code and graphics, as the case may be), but that can be offloaded. The creative vision is what makes the story, after all. When you're writing a book, there's no real limit to what you can imagine. You want a story set in a world with infinitely fidelitous spaceships and factories and space pirates? Sure, knock yourself out. You can have that.

It's not simply that he doesn't understand game design. He doesn't even understand that there is something to understand. He's imagined the spaceship in excruciating detail, so the job is done, or at least close enough to done to ask someone to pay $200 for it. I've met people with this kind of personality before (even worked for them). They tend also to be, vexingly, simultaneously very detail-oriented and very shallow when it comes to checking on the work of others. This is how you end up with situations where he cares very, very much about getting the right color of blue pixel, but has the attention span of a three year old when it comes to things actually functioning. This is why he stares starry-eyed at visual tech demos as if that was a finished product, because that's what he thinks it is. He sees it, so it's in the game!

Scruffpuff posted:

I think it's closer to this: he said it, so it's true. Like you, I've worked for people like this. They're "in charge" so if they say something exists that doesn't exist to them it's not lying - they're just ahead of the curve. The very statement that a thing exists will eventually be true when said thing is brought into existence once the order is handed down, so they're not lying, they're just anticipating the truth and calling it in advance. It's that certainty that makes it reality - they think they're making things through sheer willpower and "leadership."

The reality is they're lying.

Zazz Razzamatazz posted:

So I've been in the SC trades reddit (don't ask why) and you'd think it was citizens with a ship or 2 to sell but there are a ton of people there with hundreds of ships each.

I copy-pasted one into a spreadsheet and it was over $5,700 worth of JPEG spaceships!

So my question is, what the gently caress?

Are these just incredibly rich people looking to get even richer off fellow SC fans? Bitcoin people? Money laundering? Some sort of currency exchange scheme, trading their local cash for USD?

What. The actual. gently caress.

Blue On Blue posted:

Some people made a good chunk of change off the initial 'rush' into SC

I myself tripled my money by selling my account, it was only like an initial $75 account, but some weirdo bought it for 3 times that and allowed me to buy Elite Dangerous and all future DLC (thanks Chris Roberts!)

Now take my account and think, if you bought one of the big ticket items, or even 10 of them.... and started a virtual used ship showroom

You could flip them for MASSIVE PROFIT

The problem is people forgot the market would crash, and now they're stuck with a huge inventory of stupid jpegs they can't get rid of it, or even sell for a loss

G0RF posted:

YOUTUBE: A One Minute History of Squadron 42

colonelwest posted:

Great job GORF. I like how you let Chris speak for himself this time. I think that's the central point in the SC meta game. If you just give it a little time, CIG will always just bury itself in its own lies, greed and incompetence.

quote:

FailureToReport: Star Citizen - 3.2 - I Was Incorrect, My Bad
A lot of backers who are sad that I'm still covering star citizen keep throwing out the accusation that I'm making star citizen videos because I want the views. I make barely one star citizen video a month; I have 12 total star citizen videos the oldest of which was November 2017 two of those videos were streams one of them is a rehash of a previous video because fanboys said it wasn't fair to judge 3.0 while it was on the PTU server and that I had to wait for it to be fully released. I'd like to now present the court with Exhibit B this is what drama whoring click baiting for star citizen views actually looks like. To the big star citizen content creators credit they at least rehash whatever info CIG puts out into more digestible formats for their viewers. This capital class fucktard (speaking about TEST Squadron leader) just makes poo poo up to sell drama and peddle his lovely merch to loving TEST while pretending he has anything to do with the EvE corp so he can ride it's reputation. It's weird how Star Citizen fans are fine with clickbait drama whoring if it's on their side but I just make a couple videos critical star citizen and I'm the bad guy.

A Commando posted:

I think we need to start a support group. I am a former whale of SC. Handle not revealed because of risk but I've spent $7500. Started March of 2014 and ended July of 2017. When I started seeing Christ Roberts was selling everyone their own dream is when I popped smoke. It was a startling realization this game hadn't been figured out and until it did I was out. Funny thing. I had gone through some interview courses at the time. Part of the class was to watch politicians and interviews with known or suspected criminals and how to detect their deceit. I remember watching his 10 for the chairmen through those new eyes. This whale walked away.

Blue On Blue posted:

TheLastRoboKy posted:

The lore reasoning behind people playing using Vanduul ships in Star Citizen is loving stupid because apparently a company sells replicas during war-time. Yeah that's a good idea.

Tactical what do you see???

Sir it .. it isn't good. I think it's a severe case of hemorrhoids

Scruffpuff posted:

I've said this before, but after seeing the rear end Pirate Vessel above I have to reiterate. Chris Roberts is absolutely the worst. He's so, so bad at everything he does. And his poo poo isn't "Plan 9 From Outer Space" bad, it's "childhood leukemia" bad.

No matter how bad an idea, and no matter how awful the implementation, there will be people not only willing to participate, but begging to. From a certain point of view, it's actually very sad that Star Citizen isn't ever coming out, because Chris is building something very special here indeed.

He's building a zoo. A self-selected self-isolated group of subhumans ripe for griefing and financial exploitation. There are few people in history who can claim to have created a captive audience of the intellectually crippled. L. Ron Hubbard did it, maybe a handful of others.

And now Chris Roberts has done it.

Star Citizen could have been an amazing cathartic outlet for normal people to log into and immediately feel better about themselves just by looking around. poo poo, it's kinda already that right now.

Scruffpuff posted:

I think part of it is that starting a cult isn't always some well-thought out master plan. Certain people seem to be hard-wired to be professional followers. They're always on the lookout for someone to give their undying loyalty to in return for money, appreciation, status, safety, or some such. There seem to be a very large number of middle-class white males who just don't command any respect in real life, but feel it's something they're owed, for whatever reason. The love of Star Citizen is basically a tacit admission that not only have they failed in real life, but also that they know they'll never succeed. Look at Miku, who craves constant appreciation and attention for what he's accomplished, in the form of constant Tweets to reiterate how much disposable income he has and how he has a wife too. I imagine that's aimed at the phantoms of his past, the kids who made fun of him for years, and someday "he'd show them" not quite fully embracing that nobody gives a gently caress because everyone's got enough on their plate trying to keep their own poo poo together.

If Star Citizen really has 2 million backers, I'm glad, because it means no matter how far I fall in my personal life, I'm still at least 2,000,001 positions from the bottom.

Scruffpuff posted:

trucutru posted:

He thinks (and he's right, problem is that it aint easy) that if he can model all the little details, and physics, and fidelity then he won't need any sort of cheat. If everything is "real" then your commando can look outside the ship's windows and watch the battle going on. No need for cute tricks, no need to compromise.

Problem is that compromising is good. It helps you focus on what is important. The warframe dudes saved themselves a lot of time and effort by just going "well, ship on ship combat is handled independently of ninja on ninja combat

The two games are really pointless to compare on a fundamental level. Warframe is looking to use tricks and programming sleight of hand because they want to create a fun and engaging game, and Chris Roberts isn't and doesn't. The reason Chris doesn't want to use tricks is partially due to his intellectual defects, but it goes deeper than that. The truth is he has no vision of what Star Citizen is. He has no ideas, no design, no gameplay concept - nothing. He has ideas in his head that he consciously or subconsciously plagiarized from other work he's seen. Other movies, other TV shows, games made by actual game developers. He can create sizzle reels from those stolen ideas, and he can imagine snippets of "gameplay" that involve some of those stolen ideas in a "cinematic" fashion, but he has no idea how to make those moments occur. He's certainly not intelligent enough to have figured out that cinematic moments shouldn't necessarily exist in the gaming medium in the first place - that was a lesson learned in his long and blessed absence, not that he'd have learned it even if he'd been there for it.

So since Chris Roberts has no ideas and no vision, using "shortcuts" is really bad, because they'd get him to a working product faster, and that moment when he has to sit down and admit he has no idea what he's doing. Since nobody at CIG can get anything working in any meaningful way, and what they do have is hot poo poo and one of the worst tech demos in the history of gaming, he can forever claim that his vision is just beyond the next technical hurdle. Once object container streaming is in, once it's items 2.2, 3.0, 3.5, once AI is in, once serialized variables, once once once...

... THEN we'll see what his vision was all about. But as long as CIG never "cheats" we'll never reach that point. So Chris' lack of vision will be forever obscured, and when Star Citizen fails, he will claim it failed him.

Virtual Captain posted:

I think you're onto something here. But I don't think he's against shortcuts because he wants to delay the final release. I think what may be going on is sees Star Wars, he sees other open world games; and totally fails to understand how the ADMITTEDLY LIMITED screentime and gameplay systems work in harmony to deliver a great experience. "Wouldn't it be great if you could go visit the moon in Grand Theft Auto?" he thinks to himself, "How cool would it be if every NPC walked home at night?" Uhh what would the player even do on the moon Chris? Wouldn't stalking NPCs around get super boring after the first time? He doesn't ask himself these questions. Instead, he has another go at The Chris Roberts Theory of Everything.

Colostomy Bag posted:

CIG's dynamic missions in a nutshell:

Beet Wagon posted:

Quavers posted:

mining permits are in!

Wise Learned Man posted:

And shitizens thought goons refunded our fleet.

Scruffpuff posted:

It will never stop being funny to me that we started making fun of Star Citizen's Jesus Patch years ago, and when we joked about it we'd exaggerate by setting the patch number way ahead. Even when joking back then about it, none of us went as far ahead as 3.3.

A Commando posted:

I can't [stream] another month like this, I just can't afford to

BexGu posted:

Some one made a flow chart of possible outcomes of Star Citizen and in all of them it turns out Goonswarm wins.

G0RF posted:

YOUTUBE: GamerMax throws down!

“I would rather have a channel filled with Haters and Doubters, because they treat me better than you do. And that’s pretty sad.”

Yes, GamerMax, it is sad. A lot of us have been calling attention to this problem for a looooooong time. But you really need to choose which side of the fence you’re going to hang your legs off, dude. Videos about Haters / Trolls one day, videos about toxic Zealots the next... you’re a gamer without a country and without a game.

Tinfoil Papercut posted:

*Chris Roberts finishes swearing in and seats himself on the witness stand. The courtroom is packed with a mix of CryTek lawyers, CiG backers, Goons, and media. The jury looks on at the proceedings, fascinated with what this man might say.*

Skadden: Mr. Roberts, how long has Star Citizen been in development?

Roberts: Well ... uh....erm....uh the REAL development only started... uhm... erm..... you know once we get all the PIPELINES in place ...uhhhhh....err.....so we've been hiring and uh....... er........ you know..... the REAL development hasn't even started yet. And that's apparent if you uhhhhhh........hmmmm.....uhhhhh.... you know... if you know game development.

Skadden: So you're saying 6 years after your funding campaign began you still haven't started the development of the product?

Roberts: Well .....uh...... we had to build this company and....uh....

The doors to the courtroom suddenly fly open. Dressed in an orange tuxedo, Derek Smart strolls casually to one of the few open seats. Roberts gaze is fixated on him and has completely broken off from his response. Derek sits and smiles at Roberts.

Skadden: ......Mr. Roberts? The question?

Roberts: Yes.... sorry... as I was saying the scope increased so much that it took a large amount of time to setup the company so we...

Derek sneezes

Roberts: Did you hear that?! *Roberts turns to Judge* You heard that, eject him!

Skadden: *clearly confused* Heard what?

Roberts: *Pointing at Derek* HIM! He called me a "hack" just then!

Derek looks behind him, as if searching for the man Roberts is pointing at.

Skadden: Mr. Roberts, nobody called you a hack.

Roberts: HE DID! I HEARD IT! Judge, remove him! He's a filthy FUD spreader!

Judge: A what?

Roberts: A FUD SPREADER! He's been banned from the RSI forums! I think he hacked the Evocatti and took pictures of an Idris! We blacklisted him from the PU and Arena Commander!

*Roberts gets out of his seat and runs over to the Jury. The officers nearby move to restrain him*

Roberts: He's a DOXXER! He's a Goon DOXXER! LISTEN TO ME! THIS MANS GAME DOESN'T HAVE BLIND CULLING! CAN'T YOU SEE WHAT HE'S DOING HERE! WE HAVE TO STOP HIM!

Judge: *Bangs gavel repeatedly* ORDER! ORDER! Take this man away!

*The Jury is recoiling from Roberts as the officers drag him away, his feet dragging on the floor.*

Roberts: HE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND GAME DEVELOPMEEEEEENT!

*As Roberts is led away out of the courtroom, a palpable murmur can be heard throughout the courtroom as people process Robert's behavior. The Judge bangs the gavel again to restore order. Skadden locks eyes with Derek, both smiling ear to ear as Derek gives him a quick wink.*

trucutru posted:

Beet Wagon posted:

By Satoshi's holy ghost!

MoMA posted:

AbstractNapper posted:

We're laughing at a trainwreck in slow motion. We laugh at the red flags, wonder how people still support this, mock the shills for their 180 turns and their "you don't know anything about game development" and "still in pre-alpha but better than any AAA" defense.

Chris is also doing what he explicitly said he'd avoid. Marketing tricks, fake demos, fake and misleading trailers.

It's not happening. Not as a BDSSE, not as a game of your dreams.

Maybe they'll release a terrible abomination at some point. Maybe.

Quavers posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWWM3jWpUz0&t=2080s

34 minutes in, if link doesn't work properly.

Store Citizer: sorry, I didn't mean to mention the unmentionable game

Daztek posted:

https://i.imgur.com/2lK9kwu.gifv

IcarusUpHigh posted:

Theory crafting still, 6 years into the project. Holy poo poo, I can't even

posted:

quote:

If you don’t like it folks, just downvote and move on.

Thats a great way to summarize what is wrong with this community. Downvotes aren't supposed to be the magical tool to hide stuff you disagree with, or to avoid having to use arguments. Its pretty damaging to whatever reputation SC might have left among regular gamers: rather than acknowledge the plethora of shady stuff and the endless lies and broken promises, this community just tries to hide any criticism. Well, guess what: you can try to hide it as much as you want, but it isn't improving the project one bit and it only reinforces the image the average gamer has of our community.

Feel welcome to downvote this as much as you want.

AtmaTheWanderer posted:

posted:

As my case was in small claims, there were no lawyers, CIG/RSI sent someone to represent their interests, but I dont wish to name them, as some people aren't so civil on the internet.

In mediation, CIG/RSI would not agree to refund the portion of my account not covered by the arbitration agreement.

Though lawyers aren't permitted, CIG/RSI lawyers drafted and submitted statements that were permitted.

The judge declined to hear anything about the conscionability or lack of consideration in the TOS.

Despite the top sentence on the TOS, CIG/RSI successfully argued that the arbitration clause should be applied to transactions even before the clause existed.

CIG/RSI repeatedly argued that there is a playable game and that funds have been earned, but the judge did not rule that either.

Following application of arbitration clause to transactions outside covered dates, court orders matter to arbitration, case is dismissed without prejudice.

Unfortunately, this is unsurprising. Even in California courts have kind of stopped trying to rule arbitration agreements unconscionable. The SCOTUS has just slapped down too many cases in this regard for them to continue trying to push the topic, and so if your agreement is ever amended to include an arbitration agreement and you do not refuse it on the spot, you're going to be stuck. The strongest argument you have, in the case it is true, is to make a case to the company that the cost of them paying arbitrators is more than they would expend by just giving you a refund.

Beet Wagon posted:

Blue On Blue posted:

https://twitter.com/RedLir_Live/status/1017128380733558786


.... who?

G0RF posted:

Loxbourne posted:

Can confirm. I have occasional periods of hankering for model trains myself, and the communities there can be exactly like the Star Citizen one in both good and bad ways. That kind of high-fidelity community is great when you need tech support or a spare part or an obscure model of vehicle that only operated for three weeks at a logging camp in Pasadena. And you'd better believe there are vicious slapfights and weird outbreaks of authoritarianism.

But they've never gone as psychotically bad as the SC community. Some of that is the SC community's roots in lovely internet gaming fandoms (so the Overton window includes harassment as a matter of course), and the rest comes from the subconscious cultlike belief that the dream is fragile and saying mean things about it pushes it further and further away from reality.

The way Chris managed to harness this upswell of niche fanboys was that he managed (partly by accident, but I think less accidentally than we might think) to find his way to the weak spot in their nerd vocabulary. Making people think he was exactly like them. That he was another fan of niche space sims, and exactly the kind of niche space sim you personally like. He may be the glorious prophet of space but that's just marketing, and deep down he's a good ol' space fanboy who dabbles in code just like That Kazaan. He's just like the (genuine) tightly-knit friends who swap 1953 Southern Region signal arms with you. He'll see you right, no worries.

Crobbler doesn't think like you. Ever. Crobbler specifically doesn't want to think like you precisely because there are so many of you supporting him. He is a straight-up narcissist who won't play his own game after release because a captain of industry like him doesn't lower himself to the tastes of his own punters. But that's the mask he's managed to wear. I've talked in the past about how the decision to refund almost always seems to be based on a loss of faith in Chris personally, and this is how that loss of faith works.

Nicholas posted:

in the time its taken star citizen to be developed i've

- been accepted into college
- graduated college
- met the girl of my dreams
- got married
- bought a house
- had a kid
- died of old age
- been re-incarnated
- grew up and got accepted into a new college and began studying game development
- got hired at CIG as junior QA specialist
- got promoted directly to senior AI engineer

doingitwrong posted:

Star Citizen is an easy cult to leave. You just … stop.

You quietly stop posting, you unsubscribe from the forums or subreddit and you get on with your life and pretend like it never happened and kind of lie about how much you invested in the first place. You tell yourself it was a good dream worth supporting and it’s too bad (Chris/Derek/GOONS) hosed it up, but that’s how things go and you were always a little skeptical about the whole thing, so you aren’t surprised things turned out this way. You were never really that fanatic a backer but it was fun to troll the Goons but you’ve got more interesting things to do now. And then you stop talking or thinking about it at all.

Unlike a real cult, no one comes to get you, there is no intervention or isolation. There is no load breakup, no dramatic defection. You simply fade away. (It’s the people loudly claiming they are leaving that haven’t really left.)

People are surprisingly resilient and really good at changing their minds and really, really bad at noticing they have or of remembering what it was like when they believed something different than they do now.

posted:

Had a SC skeptic visit my house..

Whenever I demonstrate anything, wierd bugs I have never seen before rear their heads and I am constantly having to say "it isn't normally like this!"

Scruffpuff posted:

colonelwest posted:

backers and Chris go on and on about fidelity, and we all imagine it as hamstringing the development, but hardly any of those fidelicious second life features ever seem to make it into the game, and many of them seem to die a quiet death behind the scenes. Commandos can't even engage in riveting trace gas balancing gameplay yet. It seems like CIG starts a circle jerk among the backers about some new ultra-realistic feature that wont use "cheats and trickery" like other game devs, then years after screwing around with that feature they give up on it, and then implement a hollowed out version with the same "cheats and trickery" of other devs just with an extreme level of incompetence. The whole argument that "CIG isn't cutting corners and they are taking their time to make the most detailed and ambitious game ever" continually falls apart before our eyes, but backers continue to applaud CIG for these sisyphean tasks that waste time and money without ever producing anything usable in the game.

This entire debacle makes me feel like I'm trapped in a 7-year long episode of The Twilight Zone. Gamers, the one nit-pickiest group of hobbyists who usually see through bullshit like Superman sees through walls, are completely enthralled by the fully transparent lies of the worst non-game-developer fraud who ever lived. Chris Roberts has been persona non grata in the game development community since his thumb head showed up, yet every mumbled, bumblefuck word he utters is sucked down by these morons like it's candy, and they're starved for more.

Install and play the "game" and it gets even worse. It's obvious from the first second of launch that CIG has no idea what they're doing, and worse than that, their Idiot King is making sure the few things they do build, they build wrong. CIG codes like cavemen were brought into the present day with a time machine, given PCs to work on, and denied any historical data that would give perspective to their efforts and are instead expected to recreate the entire gaming discipline from the ground up, with no experience, with the dumbest man of all cracking the whip above them.

Every piece of evidence connected to this, every piece, absolutely screams incompetence and bad faith. Nepotism, lying about stretch goals, lying in their own TOS, Chris lying in every video and in every interview, stealing almost $200 million from people and building complete and utter poo poo.

Gamers were the group that were supposed to be above all this. Gamers were supposed to be "too smart to fool." And I'll be goddamned if the wool hasn't been pulled from my eyes forever, because if Star Citizen taught me only one thing, it's that the ego and self-importance of the "gaming community," and their collective belief that they were "ahead of the curve" intellectually and socially, has been proved 100% false by Chris Roberts. This community was fooled, and continues to be fooled, by a two-bit huckster who's not even bothering to hide his crimes.

If it weren't for this thread, I'd feel like the only sane man in an asylum.

Dongsturm posted:

These guys aren't gamers, they are grognards. Gamers want instant gratification, so they show up, devour the game like the content locusts that they are, then move on. Grognards spend hundreds of hours painting figurines for a 2-hour game that everyone agrees is actually not a lot of fun.

Grogs love the preparation and build-up, gamers love getting to the end.

Collecting spaceships hits the same good feeling as collecting minatures, and just like the minatures, the spaceships get played with about once every 6 months, if that.

And anyone with the imagination to pretend that pushing minatures across a table is actually Sergeant Ragefist leading his squad of Death Commandos against the orc horde, will have no problems imagining that delivering a box is a vital, top secret courier mission to save the galaxy.

Plus, after buying a couple of armies from Games Workshop, spending £150 on a space ship looks like a good deal.

quote:

MilesK posted:

colonelwest posted:

We live in the age of identity, in fact we're drowning in it. Everyone is constantly Balkanized on dozens of levels, based on superficial things from race and gender to PC vs console gaming. It creates atomized humans with the belief that identity is a zero sum struggle, there is always the ominous other out to destroy them as a bisexual black female or a straight white conservative male. It's a nebulous struggle for the expression of identity in the public sphere, producing only a vague anger and fear from which no concrete or actionable understanding of the world and power structures that govern it can ever be formed, leaving people isolated and powerless.

People feel this dis-empowerment on some instinctual level, but they're incapable of understanding its source, so they paradoxically cling more and more to intrinsically meaningless forms of community in a search for agency and meaning. There are whole multi-billion dollar industries that cater to this, from blatantly predatory things like Scientology and multi-level marketing to the more innocuous renaissance of "nerd culture" entertainment and merchandising.

Star Citizen is one of the more comical examples of this. It's both a fantasy for citizens to retreat into from the harsh realities of a world devoid of meaning and fulfillment, a replacement for traditional forms of community that have either atrophied or they are alienated from, and a vehicle to feel empowerment through changing the entire landscape of gaming forever. They will be important and respected people someday in this new world they helped create. Star Citizen is a social phenomenon which acts as an easily accessible microcosm of post-modernity, and that's why its so fascinating to me.

Nyast posted:

quote:

Reddit: Reentry heat effects play when flying backwards into space

https://gfycat.com/TenderGlisteningLadybird

I think that's the perfect example of what Star Citizen is. Everything is made to look good on the surface, but as soon as you dig a bit, you find out that everyhing is a quick rush job.

Daztek posted:

kw0134 posted:

Star Citizen is whatever it needs to be at any given moment in time. It's a AAAA pre-alpha game that has already delivered all of its promises that cannot be judged until it's fully released that has more content than any other game on the market. It's all these things at the same time.

Orwell would look at it and weep, for doublethink was too timid a concept and he should have been bolder.

A Commando posted:

The trials of Alpha

Wouldnt you know I get a game crash above Yela. Come back in and yay, I am still in the seat. Good job CIG. I land and try to get out of the seat. Nope. Cant interact with anything now. Cant even get out of the seat. Oh well, log out and log back in. Jump into another ship and go to the location of my Connie, but its not there. I go back to PO and have to claim the Connie. Lost my 20k cargo.

I will pull out my Prospector and make enough money to start trading again. For some reason once in my Prospector, I cant interact with anything. I lay down in the bed and log out. Log back in and I am in the PO HAB. So I try to retrive my Prospector, but it wont let me. I have to Claim it. I claim it, but since I have no money, I have to wait 33 mins. I take a break, come back and jump in my Prospector and head out to make some money. I find a spot after searching about 20 mins and start mining. Bam, game crash. I wake up at PO. I now have to claim my Prospector again, another 33 mins.

So far today, I have spent over an hour and half claiming and waiting for ships. Lost 20k and spent a total of almost 3 hours of gaming time getting nothing accomplished.

Got my Prospector back flew out to Yela and starting scanning. Game Crash, again, Wake up at PO and have to claim my prospector again. After 4 hours, I dont have time to play anymore. Guess I will try again tomorrow.

The Titanic posted:

This is a problem with CR and his ideas.

The aliens are always:
1: Equally powerful as humans but also winning somehow
2: Prone to be savages
3: Despite being a space-faring race, they look, dress, act, and are equipped like some kind of medieval barbarians
4: Want to enslave every other race
5: Have dominated every other race until humans/or races that are being helped by humans

The humans are always:
1: Barely functional, politically and technologically
2: Comprised of outcast rebels
3: Technology is on par with WW2 weapons
4: Sabotaged by unlikely allies who turn out to be not allies
5: Your starter carrier will be blown up

And of course in it all there tends to always be a "one weapon" that will always end the war all of the sudden and both sides have one. The aliens will deploy theirs and be thwarted, and the humans will deploy theirs and magically win.

Have fun I guess.

EightAce posted:

SomethingJones posted:

CIG job vacancies are now at a record breaking 102.

This month's comedy vacancy is for a janitor.

https://cloudimperiumgames.com/jobs/735-Day-Porter

Must be willing to mop the canteen for several hours at a time whilst being mo capped by a guilty looking bear in a wig

Beet Wagon posted:

G0RF posted:

GAMEFAQS: Star Citizen Backers No Longer Able To Get Refunds

It’ll looking pretty viral at this point.

G0RF posted:

It’s surreal how badly the brand has suffered since that Streetroller refund era. The perception then was that Derek Smart and a handful of haters were the only critics out there. The general gaming consensus was still generally favorable towards the project. Nowadays, it’s “Scam Citizen” / “Star Citizen is a cult” / “ $27k ship packs screw those greedy bastards!” almost anywhere discussions break out.

Usually, when a brand is seen as radioactive trash, it’s the VP of Marketing who is held to account. After all, it filters from the top. I’m sure, despite all the credit hogging for the record breaking funds raised, the descration of the brand itself will be somebody else’s fault. But who exactly can be blamed when nobody else held the job for more than a few seasons?

Good. I want everyone to see this. A lot of real dumb guys are writing this off because he lost, happy to say "I told you so!" and nothing more, but the blowback on this kind of thing is exactly what got them to loosen their grip on refunds in the past. When StreetRoller's case went viral, refunds magically became almost trivially easy to get.

G0RF posted:

YOUTUBE: Update on the Star Citizen Backer's Lawsuit

10:07 - I also have this uncanny sense of knowing when I'm being bullshitted to and that's exactly what Cloud Imperium Games and Robert Spaces Industries are doing; they're bullshitting us.

14:13 - criticism does not give you the right to make death threats or threats of physical violence against other people but because these people are low IQ, low testosterone, neck bearded, overweight, socially inept motherfuckers they think that this is okay, this is the proper response to somebody saying no your game is poo poo, your decisions are poo poo, and you should be criticized for it

22:38 - What I'm going to say to star citizen backers who want a refund don't be dismayed by this you may have lost temporarily but a temporary loss does not mean that you've completely lost you haven't stick it out wait a couple of months and watch how this plays out because CIG has this uncanny ability to shove their foot down their throat they will do it again

22:30 - [to] the vociferous defenders such as Montoya who intentionally cherry-pick data and lie in order to prop up this failed venture they're gonna be eating crow and that is far more amusing to all of us

A Commando posted:

I backed it and also convinced some of my friends to back it. Given the state the game is in now I don't mind so much that I threw my own money away but I also sent my friends cash to refund them, because I felt guilty about talking them into something that will probably never happen.

A Commando posted:

I hope it’s not a scam, but I am always amazed at people defending this game. Whenever a developer talks about about f2p or GAAS or monetization, it’s always met with a lot of negativity (often understandably).

And here we have a developer who managed to monetize game developement, constantly selling new digital assets for an unreleased game for hundred or even thousands of dollars. They are also organizing these weird referal and titles programs. At the same time they are missing every target from their initial road maps.

I hope people understand why it looks like a scam for outsiders.

XK posted:

CIG sure did win that legal case. All the news stories about them denying refunds is good for SC.

Congrats.

Scruffpuff posted:

I'm personally amazed that CIG took this stance. Most customer-oriented companies would catch it hot from their CEO if a dissatisfied customer had to go to loving court to get a refund on an undelivered product, if only for PR reasons.

Imagine how far gone this makes CIG look. That they're willing to go to loving court to keep some cash. It's like $4500 or something, they're bragging about having taken in nearly $200 million and they're making a guy fly across the country to stand in a courtroom and get told "no, gently caress you" when the opinion of the gaming community at large has pretty much turned against CIG and considers this game a scam.

That was CIG's call. That was their decision. To completely forego their appearance for relative pocket change.

I think this wasn't about the money - it was about sending a message. They want to make sure the people who are now coming around to realize what a fraud Chris Roberts is, don't all start coming for their cash at once. This was meant to set a precedent: "Don't even try it." They've not only given up on looking like a legitimate enterprise; they've solidified their position as scamming assholes. And they did it willingly. Someone at CIG did the math, "Give this guy his refund so we look like heroes, or deny it to make sure our backers know there's no escape."

And look what they chose.

Scruffpuff posted:

I've been following this for some time, and I don't think this is a "butthurt" type move. If Sandi were calling the shots maybe, but this has the stench of an Ortwin gambit. He knows what Chris is, and has since the beginning. Of all the people at CIG, he's the one that put all his chips on Chris loving this up like he's hosed up everything before, and he laid his plans accordingly. They can't make the game, but they're drat well going to keep the cash.

Remember CIG's playbook. The key isn't to set a legal precedent - it's to set a "precedent" in the minds of the backers who are reading about this on news sites. Control their thoughts and opinions, maintain their confidence in you, and keep giving them reasons to give you money, while scaring them away from the idea of ever getting it back.

There's a reason it's called a "confidence" scam.

So I have to assume that's it for CIG. This case sent a huge message to everyone in the gaming community: don't back our game unless you're cool losing your money. They have to know that's the message that went out. They have to know that this one case is going to put a dent in incoming funds. Which, to me, means they don't care as much about incoming funds as they do about holding onto existing ones for as long as possible.

That's always the last stage of a company's internal finances before the surprise early-morning locked doors found by coffee-holding employees.

The important traction is already in place: people who read and understand what CIG has done, and thankfully this lawsuit has put it squarely in the spotlight, will think long and hard before donating even $1 to CIG. Derek's been trying to get that message out for years - I should have figured it would be CIG who managed to do it in the end.

TheAgent posted:

it's a calculated move by people with a lot of money to lose

MedicineHut posted:

http://www.polygon.com/2015/8/20/9180067/star-citizen-backers-claiming-refunds-are-getting-their-money-back

quote:

"We don't want people to be part of the project if they're not happy."

"If there are cases where people are really upset, or facing personal hardships, on a case by case basis we take a look and we refund," he said. "We don't want to keep people around. We don't want to fight with them."

quote:

Requirements:
Previous experience preferred but not required
Knowledge of general janitorial upkeep tasks
Able to converse clearly and professionally in English. Read and understand oral and written instructions in English; Bilingual Spanish a plus
This is a physical job that requires frequent crouching, kneeling, stooping, walking, reaching, climbing, and lifting (Up to 50lbs)