|
Place a cap in his pistol so that it blows off his hand after he shoots you 5 times, why doncha, we call that foreshadowing.
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2018 15:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 23:53 |
|
|
Elias_Maluco posted:I remember when we discussed here that Dolores "not everyone deserves" while murdering hosts seemed really stupid, considering all that we know and she knew too, and people said "it is going to make sense by the end", and I believed that too It's what I get for trying to give the show a chance and assume it couldn't possibly be headed down the dumbest path of copying the worst thing about both late-Lost And late-BSG Honest question, when has "making it up as we go along"/"throwing darts at the wall to see what sticks" ever worked out for long-term storytelling in a multi-season show?
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2018 15:22
|
|
|
emanresu tnuocca posted:Place a cap in his pistol so that it blows off his hand after he shoots you 5 times, why doncha, we call that foreshadowing. She also accounted for the QA guys that he shot when they first arrived, don't forget.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2018 15:23
|
|
|
Chris James 2 posted:It's what I get for trying to give the show a chance and assume it couldn't possibly be headed down the dumbest path of copying the worst thing about both late-Lost And late-BSG Gonna wager that if you'll pose this question to a network exec they'll tell you it worked very well for Lost, BSG, Westworld and numerous other shows.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2018 15:28
|
|
|
Chris James 2 posted:Honest question, when has "making it up as we go along"/"throwing darts at the wall to see what sticks" ever worked out for long-term storytelling in a multi-season show? Breaking Bad It's possible, you just need clever/good writers who understand the characters they've written.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2018 15:29
|
|
|
emanresu tnuocca posted:Place a cap in his pistol so that it blows off his hand after he shoots you 5 times, why doncha, we call that foreshadowing. Chalks posted:She also accounted for the QA guys that he shot when they first arrived, don't forget. William's gun shoots two types of ammunition. She sabotaged it to go off with the first shotgun blast. http://westworld.wikia.com/wiki/Custom_LeMat ghostwritingduck fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Jun 27, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2018 15:44
|
|
|
DoctorGonzo posted:The only good reveal was season one Bernard is actually a host. Season 2 was a mess tryng shock for the sake of shock There were three good reveals in season one: Bernard is a host; Bernard is made in the image of Arnold; William and the Man in Black are the same person. To a lesser extent: Dolores is not actually breaking out of her programming and falling in love with young William.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2018 15:51
|
|
|
I swear I remember them saying "Oh this season isn't going to have a bunch of big reveals. That's unsustainable from a story standpoint" and then they went and did it anyway. I liked the last episode alright, but you look back on the rest of it in light of it and it's like "What the gently caress was anyone doing all that time?" Especially Dolores.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2018 16:06
|
|
|
Also, minor quibble because this is in every action movie since the dawn of time, but every host that was like "You guys run, I'll hold them off" was never shot properly. The story guy was the only one where it was shot in such a way that it actually looked like they needed a distraction to get away. All those hosts dying at the door could have just sprinted through the door.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2018 16:09
|
|
|
WampaLord posted:Breaking Bad Breaking Bad story didint rely on mysteries and reveals, which also helps
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2018 16:23
|
|
|
It’s not exactly fair to criticize a show for being written as they go, because every show is written that way to some degree due to the nature of television production. The key difference is having a team that knows to only write something that makes sense and complements what they’ve already written.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2018 16:40
|
|
|
esperterra posted:Yeah it's a mess lmao But if I’m remembering that scene right It’s: Hale/Deloris Bernard Stubbs Strand Three of these people are hosts Just go down there and loving add a second bloodstain next to Theresa’s Why bother with loving anything else Oh, because Bernard doesn’t know Hale is a host because reasons And nobody knows Stubbs is a host because they haven’t filmed that scene yet But Stubbs fuckin knows everything, I guess So why doesn’t he just loving dome Strand and call it a fuckin day Why does this season get dumber every day
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2018 16:50
|
|
|
Sockser posted:But if I’m remembering that scene right It's all going according to plan
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2018 16:55
|
|
|
ghostwritingduck posted:William's gun shoots two types of ammunition. She sabotaged it to go off with the first shotgun blast. Yeah how extremely convenient that she knew he would use the shotgun barrel to shoot at her head instead of his nine pistol shots
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2018 16:55
|
|
|
When S1 was over I said it was a great show with flaws (2 lab idiots) but how the gently caress could they continue on for season 2? Season 1 was primarily a mystery/thriller story set in a retro/future setting, it also took time to ask pseudo intelligent questions about being human. There were large cloud of mysteries for the motive and identity of almost every player. And the finale of S1 pretty much reveal all of them. I said the story had nowhere to go except to a full terminator plot with all the mystery elements removed. Finding out how the writers answer this incredible limited dilemma they imposed on themselves was the main reason I looked forward to S2. I knew full well S2 could not possibly match up to S1 nor could they write an character as interesting as Robert Ford (frankly Sir Anthony Hopkins hadn't had such a juicy role for years). As it turn out, the writers didn't have any answer to the questions they imposed on themselves. S2 was still constructed as a mystery except there was no stack in any of the mystery. "The cradle" was revealed in E7 and destroyed in the same episode. "The Forge" was revealed in E9 and partially destroyed in E10. And you found out Dolores was not after the Forge. So basically you have moving goal post of MacGaffins and none of the MacGaffins work. Nobody watching the show know what the characters were going after throughout the season. The MIB's MacGuffins was dropped toward the end. They reordered the narration to built up a big secret of "why are the hosts in the water?" Huh? Nobody loving cares about this nothingburger. How about you put characters Emily and Ake early in the season so the audience had somebody to root for? Even James Delos and his quest of immortality was a really compelling side story, why kill him off and destroy your interesting character in the same episode? As far as the Terminator plot goes, show made Dolores played the Terminator role. But she never discussed her motive except valley beyond valley beyond. Her story was hands down the most boring part of S2. How do you gently caress up story of robots and military guys shooting at each other this badly? Just tell their story in chronological order; show the offense and defense of each side. Both sides are assholes! It's easy to make the killing part fun! Had they just write the story in chronological order and let the new players natural get involved in the story, it would be more fun to follow. I suspect the whole Shogunworld story was written after the main story was written, as a bolt-on, Looking back, the entire Shogun subplot was basically like giant spoiler on Honda Civic, it does absolutely nothing.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2018 16:58
|
|
|
Fried Watermelon posted:It's all going according to plan God I can't wait for the Preston Jacobs video about the finale 
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2018 16:59
|
|
|
This show's bad, unfortunately.
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2018 17:13
|
|
|
tino posted:Had they just write the story in chronological order and let the new players natural get involved in the story, it would be more fun to follow. I suspect the whole Shogunworld story was written after the main story was written, as a bolt-on, Looking back, the entire Shogun subplot was basically like giant spoiler on Honda Civic, it does absolutely nothing. I guess they spent so much time and effort to obfuscate everything that was happening this season that even them couldnt see that it didint make any sense
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2018 17:16
|
|
|
Remember all the stuff in the early going of the thread where there was a philosophical debate about whether the hosts are actually conscious, what that means, and how their treatment is abhorrent morally if they are as conscious as we are... And then the season not only avoids tackling any interesting philosophical questions, it loving undercuts any argument by making it so that it's humans who are the simple 10,000 line robots who aren't even really conscious and therefore torturing and killing them is nifty and fine!
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2018 17:24
|
|
|
ghostwritingduck posted:William's gun shoots two types of ammunition. She sabotaged it to go off with the first shotgun blast. I dont envy the editors of that wiki
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2018 17:37
|
|
|
Pirate Radar posted:Yeah how extremely convenient that she knew he would use the shotgun barrel to shoot at her head instead of his nine pistol shots I don't know why people keep making this absurd assumption about how the guns work. We see Dolores slip the bullet that mashed itself against Teddy's brain ball into the gun before she gives it to William. That's what made it go off.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2018 17:55
|
|
|
ashpanash posted:Remember all the stuff in the early going of the thread where there was a philosophical debate about whether the hosts are actually conscious, what that means, and how their treatment is abhorrent morally if they are as conscious as we are... That's just about the one thing I liked about this season and the only fresh twist they threw into the frankenstein-rehash thingy.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2018 17:56
|
|
|
Mameluke posted:I don't know why people keep making this absurd assumption about how the guns work. We see Dolores slip the bullet that mashed itself against Teddy's brain ball into the gun before she gives it to William. That's what made it go off. Honest question, which part of what I said do you think is an absurd assumption? I actually cannot tell.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2018 17:57
|
|
|
Pirate Radar posted:Honest question, which part of what I said do you think is an absurd assumption? I actually cannot tell. You're spot on I don't think he's following the argument. The only thing that makes sense (and it doesn't make sense either for different reason) is that Dolores already cracked William's algorithmic code like a thousand years ago and is able to predict his every action, but really that's pretty flimsy.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2018 17:59
|
|
|
Convex posted:Watching season 2 felt like opening a beautifully wrapped present to find another slightly smaller one inside, and repeating that ad infinitum until eventually the final, miniscule present is unwrapped revealing a postage stamp sized piece of paper filled only with a single question mark same except its a dickbutt Mameluke posted:I don't know why people keep making this absurd assumption about how the guns work. We see Dolores slip the bullet that mashed itself against Teddy's brain ball into the gun before she gives it to William. That's what made it go off. lmfao everyone knows she put it in the shotgun barrel. That still doesn't explain her magically knowing he wouldn't use one of the normal bullets to cap her in the head. Assuming William may not be able to kill her immediately b/c of their history I can kind of buy-- one or two body shots either due to that or shock the first one doesn't slow her down. Assuming he'd fill her with normal bullets before finally aiming for her head with the shotgun shell I cannot. It was a dumb plan that makes no sense so we could have her dramatically walk toward him monologuing like she's Vergil building her style metre.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2018 18:07
|
|
|
I know the guns are mysterious and I certainly barely know enough about guns to not put one in my mouth every day, but I still wondered how you can get a mashed plaque of bullet tip into a revolver that I assume takes smooth cartridges? And still manage to close the cylinder? Would that rad-sounding buckshot chamber be big enough for that? Edit: okay, she pushed it into the barrel, that makes me understand why it would make his gun blow up in the first place. Scuse me.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2018 18:09
|
|
|
esperterra posted:Assuming William may not be able to kill her immediately b/c of their history I can kind of buy-- one or two body shots either due to that or shock the first one doesn't slow her down. Assuming he'd fill her with normal bullets before finally aiming for her head with the shotgun shell I cannot. It was a dumb plan that makes no sense so we could have her dramatically walk toward him monologuing like she's Vergil building her style metre. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2018 18:10
|
|
|
WampaLord posted:God I can't wait for the Preston Jacobs video about the finale I've been on edge all week waiting for it lmao.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2018 18:11
|
|
|
ashpanash posted:And then the season not only avoids tackling any interesting philosophical questions, it loving undercuts any argument by making it so that it's humans who are the simple 10,000 line robots who aren't even really conscious and therefore torturing and killing them is nifty and fine!
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2018 18:11
|
|
|
I was surprised that it became a relevant plot point because as far as I can remember, he’s never used the shotgun barrel before, so I assumed they were just treating the LeMat as the “big, black, cool-looking cowboy gun” for show purposes—nothing wrong with that—and then we have this key moment where the gun’s actual characteristics become vitally important but we have no particular reason to expect that the gun in the show works the same way the real-life gun does so it was just like “oh he’s actually using the shotgun barrel, oh wait it was a plot thing to give Dolores a cool scene.”
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2018 18:13
|
|
|
He used it in S1 to kill a host hiding behind cover, but yeah that's the only time I rememeber him using it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2018 18:15
|
|
|
Pirate Radar posted:I was surprised that it became a relevant plot point because as far as I can remember, he’s never used the shotgun barrel before, so I assumed they were just treating the LeMat as the “big, black, cool-looking cowboy gun” for show purposes—nothing wrong with that—and then we have this key moment where the gun’s actual characteristics become vitally important but we have no particular reason to expect that the gun in the show works the same way the real-life gun does so it was just like “oh he’s actually using the shotgun barrel, oh wait it was a plot thing to give Dolores a cool scene.” Also anyone who doesn't know anything about guns would never figure that bit out in a million years.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2018 18:16
|
|
|
"Well, Bernard, I guess if I had to summarize my ethos, it's that only the irreplaceable is real. Also, there are two of me now."
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2018 18:19
|
|
|
tino posted:They reordered the narration to built up a big secret of "why are the hosts in the water?" Huh? Nobody loving cares about this nothingburger. Not only that, but the reason the hosts were in the water was because of the giant pile of host bodies put there by the PMCs and their crazy horse lady shortly before they said "lets get out of here before we all drown because they've triggered the fail safe" It was you! You put the bodies there before the flooding system you knew about flooded the area! Mystery loving solved guys!
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2018 18:23
|
|
|
This show's writing went SOUTH so fast it should be retitled to Bad Writing World... Wait I had something here.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2018 18:28
|
|
|
Chalks posted:Not only that, but the reason the hosts were in the water was because of the giant pile of host bodies put there by the PMCs and their crazy horse lady shortly before they said "lets get out of here before we all drown because they've triggered the fail safe" Yeah like wtf happened there. Did Bernard or DoloresHale kill anyone else who would have known about it then she just sat on her hands waiting for the reinforcements to show up?
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2018 18:30
|
|
|
On the other hand, this show is a rarity in that if they did a hard reset on this season, and Season 3 somehow explains everything we saw at the end away as "Dolores thought she escaped but her and Bernard never left the Forge-Matrix" or something, then I wouldn't roll my eyes. Between the Cradle and the Forge, they left a lot of wiggle room for dream within a dream nonsense. Or even if they want to do some intensive triage and explain away the inconsistencies this season by having a big reveal that half of it was a simulation or a Westworld-within-a-Westworld or something, then I'd suspend my disbelief. Like a Season 1 reveal but spread out over S2 & S3. Except I think it's being received well-enough that the writers will pat themselves on the back for a job well done and continue on with whatever boring derivation of BSG Runner they have planned.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2018 18:39
|
|
|
If you want interesting philosophical discussion watch Joseph campbell's The Power of Myth on netflix It's good
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2018 18:41
|
|
|
I will say I was surprised to see as many dissenting opinions on the finale and season as a whole the odds times I've been poking through reddit to look for the kind of easter eggs and ARG poo poo they're really good at finding/solving immediately. Especially in the thread the night of and the day after the finale aired, I sorted by controversial and all the posts I found being downvoted to hell were ones saying the finale was great lmao. It seems to have evened out to mostly praise again now but I was amazed and kind of relieved to see the episode being taken p harshly on the subreddit at all. So it's not just goons that are bitching, this time (or the multiple critics who have complained about the episode/season). Even some of reddit is tired of this poo poo, which is hilarious considering reddit is prob 70% of the reason S2 was such a loving mess since Nolan and Joy love reading it so much and got ??? really loving salty for some reason ??? that people solved the mysteries in their mystery show in S1. Maybe don't put a bunch of hints in to foreshadow it and allow people to solve the mystery if you're just going to be upset it gets 'spoiled' for people not looking? It's not your fault those viewers are on the internet looking at theories and spoilers, so you don't need to protect them from the reddit Nancy Drews.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2018 18:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 23:53 |
|
|
Clearly Nolan and Joy need a SA account
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2018 18:57
|
|