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Awkward for pog boyfriend
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Jun 28, 2018 10:28
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pog boyfriend posted:have you tried landing your abilities chief. like i hate to be that guy but this reads almost entirely like "i do not know how to use the abilities well Aatrox has a 35% winrate since the changes.
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Jun 28, 2018 11:05
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Is it just me or is it real hard to get S ranks in the jungle? Feels like they want you to power farm like a maniac and don't give enough credit for kills and assists.
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Jun 28, 2018 13:03
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I don't understand why they nerfed vlad when he had a flat 50% win rate in all lanes. In other news, this is my first season and I just hit S1. Hoping to get gold by end of week. http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=Enigma89 Playing mid really helped me climb, playing ADC was like having my nails pulled. I love Draven but if I go 5-0 in my lane as Draven, I can still very much lose the game. If I go 5-0 mid as Vlad then the game is loving over.
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Jun 28, 2018 13:48
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Perhaps you are on to why he is getting a nerf
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Jun 28, 2018 14:16
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its curtains for Kevin posted:Perhaps you are on to why he is getting a nerf I mean to be fair there are a lot of mid heroes that if you go 5-0 its over (in my rank at least)
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Jun 28, 2018 14:22
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It's a good nerf. Vladimir doesn't really feel the weak early game he is supposed to feel. Games are short, but they're not so short that needing level 6 to be scary is a weakness. He also has phenomenal AP ratios (or at least had .2 AoE ratio last patch), so when he snowballs he snowballs exceptionally hard since his ult multiplies it to feel like an even bigger ratio. Nerfing his AoE burst makes him more reliant on landing a big Q if he wants to 100-0 someone without two rounds of his E. It also doesn't help that he was one of the champions of choice for supplanting marksmen bot lane, which is a bad sign. This nerf will not end up being that scary since he wants to get a lot of penetration before the death cap anyway, but it does trim off 100-150 magic damage for the marksmen class to not get one shot by RQE if they buy a defensive item.
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Jun 28, 2018 14:35
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Vlad literally had 2.8 AP ratios on top of his trollpool, before hemoplague (so 3.08 after) You know who has less ratios than that? An Anivia who hits you with both halves of Q, a boosted E, and four seconds of ult. It's loving retarded that such a safe champion's damage is so high.
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Jun 28, 2018 14:54
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Transient People posted:Vlad literally had 2.8 AP ratios on top of his trollpool, before hemoplague (so 3.08 after) But then what explains his pretty meh win rate? 50% isn't anything to go crazy about. If he was really broken his win rate would be higher than 50%. In DotA, you would never see a nerf to a hero with such an even win rate.
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Jun 28, 2018 14:59
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Enigma89 posted:But then what explains his pretty meh win rate? 50% isn't anything to go crazy about. If he was really broken his win rate would be higher than 50%. Most vlads are chimps who see the fact vlad can 1v5, forget they're baddies, and run it down repeatedly that's literally it, the champion is super not balanced Leblanc was 45% winrate when she was pick/ban in competitive, winrate ain't poo poo in this game until it hits 56%ish
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Jun 28, 2018 15:02
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Enigma89 posted:But then what explains his pretty meh win rate? 50% isn't anything to go crazy about. If he was really broken his win rate would be higher than 50%. Average winrates tell you dick-all unless they're at severe extremes (typically less than 45% or more than 55%). Average winrates get skewed heavily by people with limited experience playing the champion, especially if they suddenly become meta, or if they have high skill caps to play to their fullest potential. I know I've told this story a lot before, but I had a 60% average winrate climbing through Platinum as support Lux when her average winrate was something abysmal like 46%. Winrate as a factor of games played is usually a better metric to track, since that at least indicates if the champion sees winrate spikes once people become experienced with them, but even that doesn't tell the whole story.
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Jun 28, 2018 15:04
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Transient People posted:Most vlads are chimps who see the fact vlad can 1v5, forget they're baddies, and run it down repeatedly Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't vlad's win rate pretty meh also in competitive play? I know he is getting picked in a lot of different lanes but he isn't really crushing it anywhere. Vermain posted:Average winrates tell you dick-all unless they're at severe extremes (typically less than 45% or more than 55%). Average winrates get skewed heavily by people with limited experience playing the champion, especially if they suddenly become meta, or if they have high skill caps to play to their fullest potential. Winrate as a factor of games played is usually a better metric to track, since that at least indicates if the champion sees winrate spikes once people become experienced with them, but even that doesn't tell the whole story. This is a good point. In DotA everyone pretty much plays everything. In this game it seems like people have such a narrow hero pool. So the data probably skews pretty hard. The only thing I would say is that if a hero has a pretty high skill cap then that should be a reason to keep him strong as an incentive for people to learn him to his fullest potential. I duno, I come from another game so I am seeing/thinking about all of this from a different lens. I do think that the balancing in general in this game is really weird compared to DotA. I can't believe that marksman change was made mid season. That seems really odd to me. This game is fun and it's not as lovely as I thought it would be but the balancing is probably one of the worst things about this game IMO. It really seems heavy handed to me. I have mentioned this before to other people and the general reaction is that this is a weird time in league. Enigma89 fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Jun 28, 2018 |
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Jun 28, 2018 15:04
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Enigma89 posted:Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't vlad's win rate pretty meh also in competitive play? I know he is getting picked in a lot of different lanes but he isn't really crushing it anywhere. His pro winrate on 8.12 is 48% (35 games) which is spiking from 42% on 8.11 (89 games, 33% on 8.10 but only picked 3 times) without any actual balance changes. It's probably seeing his winrate climbing fast and trying to do something before he starts to hit that 55-60% winrate.
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Jun 28, 2018 15:11
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Enigma89 posted:Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't vlad's win rate pretty meh also in competitive play? I know he is getting picked in a lot of different lanes but he isn't really crushing it anywhere. A large part of the reason why Vlad's picking up a low winrate is because you're seeing people who are clearly uncomfortable on Vlad getting forced to play him by the whims of the meta. Vlad is simple mechanically but requires drat good execution to pull off the successful 1v5s you can sometimes see. He's still getting a 70.3% P/B rate in LCK, which is indicative of teams understanding how powerful he is in the right hands. League is different to DotA in that specialization is less crippling due to the lack of hard counterpicks. You tend to see the most concentrated champion pools at around the middle of the divisions (typically Plat -> Diamond). People around this MMR tend to have practiced a champion extensively and mastered it enough to beat a lot of people out of pure experience, but don't have the game knowledge or mentality to climb much higher than that. Below that, you tend to see very broad champion pools (to the point that the first piece of advice I'd give anyone looking to play ranked for the first time is to cut your pool down to a max of 3 picks). Above that, you also tend to see very broad champion pools, simply because people who reach Masters/Challenger tend to have been there for a while and understand the value of adhering closer to the meta. Enigma89 posted:I have mentioned this before to other people and the general reaction is that this is a weird time in league. I would argue that this is the biggest change to the core game experience they've made in years, even moreso than Runes Reforged. They're generally a soft touch when it comes to balancing. If you time travel back in this thread to the start of the 2018 season, there's probably several pages of all of us collectively wondering why the gently caress they hadn't nerfed Zoe yet after close to a month of her being the most obnoxious piece of poo poo in the game. Vermain fucked around with this message at 15:16 on Jun 28, 2018 |
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Jun 28, 2018 15:13
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njsykora posted:His pro winrate on 8.12 is 48% (35 games) which is spiking from 42% on 8.11 (89 games, 33% on 8.10 but only picked 3 times) without any actual balance changes. It's probably seeing his winrate climbing fast and trying to do something before he starts to hit that 55-60% winrate. All teams and pub players have a ban and if they want to waste it on a hero that has a sub-50% win rate then they have that choice. I duno guys... Just seems very heavy handed. I could maybe understand if he it was a pub stomping hero that gets shut down in pros due to pro-coordination. I guess this is one of these dota/league differences and I am a bit bias/butt hurt because he is my new hero that I started playing. I do appreciate the comments/context/info. Vermain posted:A large part of the reason why Vlad's picking up a low winrate is because you're seeing people who are clearly uncomfortable on Vlad getting forced to play him by the whims of the meta. Vlad is simple mechanically but requires drat good execution to pull off the successful 1v5s you can sometimes see. He's still getting a 70.3% P/B rate in LCK, which is indicative of teams understanding how powerful he is in the right hands. Thanks! e: I was around during that zoe time too! I remember that poo poo.
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Jun 28, 2018 15:20
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It's often difficult to understand why a champion is being nerfed unless you play at the highest level in solo queue or professional. Riot collects a massive amount of data on games played in solo queue and has several statistical software suites dedicated to parsing it out into a form that can be used to generate overall trends, which is frequently what they use to guide their balance decisions. If you're in a lower MMR division and see a nerf to your favorite champion, the "how" often isn't obvious merely by looking at op.gg or reading Reddit or whatever, especially when you have neither the high MMR experience nor the statistics Riot is using. They don't always get it right, but that's the unfortunate reality of trying to balance a system that's so heavily interconnected (in the sense that adjusting a single champion or item can have a sudden, dramatic knock-on effect on completely unrelated areas of the game).
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Jun 28, 2018 15:30
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Enigma89 posted:I guess this is one of these dota/league differences and I am a bit bias/butt hurt because he is my new hero that I started playing. Nobody likes their main getting nerfed, but also you're in Silver and if you play a decent Vlad the nerfs aren't going to matter to you for the most part so long as you adapt to them and don't play like your damage is exactly the same. Watching people who don't read patch notes go all-in L3 and realise way too late that they do less damage or have less mana and get killed is a great joy. Vermain posted:It's often difficult to understand why a champion is being nerfed unless you play at the highest level in solo queue or professional. Riot collects a massive amount of data on games played in solo queue and has several statistical software suites dedicated to parsing it out into a form that can be used to generate overall trends, which is frequently what they use to guide their balance decisions. If you're in a lower MMR division and see a nerf to your favorite champion, the "how" often isn't obvious merely by looking at op.gg or reading Reddit or whatever, especially when you have neither the high MMR experience nor the statistics Riot is using. They don't always get it right, but that's the unfortunate reality of trying to balance a system that's so heavily interconnected (in the sense that adjusting a single champion or item can have a sudden, dramatic knock-on effect on completely unrelated areas of the game). Also, people bitching about said champ being super OP on Reddit and champs just having too high/low pick rate can affect buff/nerf stuff. Sometimes a champ will just get a small buff to remind people they exist (hello Skarner). njsykora fucked around with this message at 15:35 on Jun 28, 2018 |
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Jun 28, 2018 15:33
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Enigma89 posted:In DotA, you would never see a nerf to a hero with such an even win rate. Boy this isn't even slightly true
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Jun 28, 2018 15:59
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Radical posted:Boy this isn't even slightly true I cant think of one and I have been playing for ten years.
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Jun 28, 2018 16:30
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dota balance changes are decided by consulting tea leaves and pulling numbered balls out of a tumbler, i really wouldn't try to understand them or apply their logic to anything
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Jun 28, 2018 16:40
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Vermain posted:I would argue that this is the biggest change to the core game experience they've made in years, even moreso than Runes Reforged. They're generally a soft touch when it comes to balancing. If you time travel back in this thread to the start of the 2018 season, there's probably several pages of all of us collectively wondering why the gently caress they hadn't nerfed Zoe yet after close to a month of her being the most obnoxious piece of poo poo in the game. I don't agree with that. Riot can be extremely heavy handed, even if they no longer literally intentionally make champions unplayable like they did to Eve or Olaf before remakes. They're a little less knee-jerk now but they definitely make big changes to fix small problems, it's rare for something to go from OP to balanced and much more common to go from OP to really underpowered to make sure they're not still OP.
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Jun 28, 2018 17:07
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Enigma89 posted:I cant think of one and I have been playing for ten years. The game was (probably still is) balanced around comp play, hence why Omniknight or Abbadon can get buffed while being 55%+ winrate or Chen/Enchantress can get nerfed while being 45% winrate. The change to Vlad was also for competitive play, since he was quite balanced at lower MMRs. The change is entirely consistent with the reasoning behind changes in DotA. I think a good example of this specific case is like Q/W Invoker when they changed how Tornado+EMP interacted. His public winrate wasn't crazy but he was popular and in almost every competitive game so it got changed.
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Jun 28, 2018 17:08
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They've tried to not sledgehammer a champ out of existence in the past few years though I'm sure there's outliers. They got in a lot of poo poo when they broke Olaf's legs off and beat him to death with them so they are probably trying to avoid it. If anything they need to be a little less trigger happy on hotfixes because you end up with poo poo like Kai'sa being a menace for several patches
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Jun 28, 2018 17:45
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Enigma89 posted:All teams and pub players have a ban and if they want to waste it on a hero that has a sub-50% win rate then they have that choice. If you play fighting games, a good comparison to Vlad is Zero in Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3. Zero barely won any tournaments, but in spite of that he was considered either the best or second best character in the game because he could one-touch-kill literally every character in the game if he managed to build a bar (getting a bar was trivial, especially if you had at least one teammate to use assists to extend your combos) and his mix-up on incoming was a 12.5% chance of escaping unless you were way in the Zero player's head and knew what trick he was gonna try this time. He was incredibly noninteractive and super broken, and the only reason he wasn't more prevalent is the best players were lazy and didn't like using him and the bad players were, well, baddies. Vlad is in the same situation - his numbers are literally not fair and they never can be until they're smacked down a bunch, because they're humongous under the impression that he will have to kill bruisers and tanks with them and take a ton of free damage from carries before he can get to them, most of the time. The existence of Protobelt, Predator, Shurelya's and Spellbinder eliminate that weakness and leave him as just an uncontrollable diver who oneshots carries inescapably in a way that is completely unmanageable if the game goes long enough due to Blood Pact giving him too many stats for him to be bursted through the trollpool. Transient People fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Jun 28, 2018 |
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Jun 28, 2018 17:55
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Yeah I am an awful midlaner and there's lots of games where I'm like 2-7 lategame but then I flash in and one hit their adc and support, vlad needed a nerf
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Jun 28, 2018 20:29
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riot both does extremely stupid, heavy-handed compound nerfs (like nerfing a champion, the champions two favourite items and their best keystone in one patch when any one of the things would have been adequate, or nerfing marksmen itemization and then also nerfing their base stats) and also engage in stupid light-touch feather nerfs like taking away 0.0246819 base AD growth away from someone with a 65% win rate. they also have the twin habits of taking someone thats OK, changing the way they work, and then leaving them to rot in hell or doing the exact opposite and just context-free ripping the champion back from 17 patches ago and saying OOPS (kog, leblanc) their balancing is not extremely bad or particularly good but it often feels like two departments with radically different goals and perspectives are working on the game simultaneously
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Jun 28, 2018 23:13
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Enigma89 posted:All teams and pub players have a ban and if they want to waste it on a hero that has a sub-50% win rate then they have that choice. the answer is that vlad is being nerfed because of his p/b ubiquity in pro play and it has absolutely nothing to do with solo queue
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Jun 29, 2018 00:06
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So apparently if I want to do these current event missions I have to choose whether I want to support Garen or Darius. Looks like the only winning move is not to play.
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Jun 29, 2018 06:09
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stay resolute
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Jun 29, 2018 06:18
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You finally won the game.
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Jun 29, 2018 06:21
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What kind of boring normies chose Garen puke emoji
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Jun 29, 2018 06:33
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Choose freedom. Choose dunks.
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Jun 29, 2018 06:37
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njsykora posted:Choose freedom. Choose dunks.
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Jun 29, 2018 12:05
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Teikanmi posted:What kind of boring normies chose Garen puke emoji DEMACIA, bitch
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Jun 29, 2018 12:21
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if you arent screaming demacia at pubbies constantly why do you even have the game installed
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Jun 29, 2018 12:39
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Why scream Demacia when you can scream for noxus smdh
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Jun 29, 2018 20:44
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Svensken posted:Why scream Demacia when you can scream for noxus smdh More people have had bad experiences with a fed Darius than a fed Garen. Also garens icon looks better.
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Jun 29, 2018 22:51
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and his dance moves are better
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Jun 29, 2018 23:58
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Say what you will about authoritarian rear end in a top hat Garen, that dance is top tier.
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Jun 30, 2018 00:39
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Excuse me? Darius dances with his puppy. That is untouchable.
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Jun 30, 2018 00:54
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