|
flakeloaf posted:gently caress kotaku Lol at referring to CoD like it's a tiny indie title.
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 01:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 00:34 |
|
|
Illusive gently caress Man posted:if it was physically possible, i think a cloud gaming service would be cool as poo poo Like is it always just "netflix is enough for HD videos"  without realizing latency, especially upstream and at residential isps is, uh, a thing with games.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 02:27
|
|
|
mrmcd posted:Like is it always just "netflix is enough for HD videos" Netflix videos are already encoded and loaded on CDN nodes, they are not being generated in real time. Netflix can use iframes in both directions to optimize their compression, whereas this can’t because the future ones don’t exist yet. Netflix can take 5 seconds to start streaming and you don’t notice that the movie is always 5 seconds “behind”
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 03:01
|
|
|
The Management posted:Netflix videos are already encoded and loaded on CDN nodes, they are not being generated in real time. Netflix can use iframes in both directions to optimize their compression, whereas this can’t because the future ones don’t exist yet. Netflix can take 5 seconds to start streaming and you don’t notice that the movie is always 5 seconds “behind” and what are CDNs really? physical data centers placed at the "edges" of the Internet. they're great places to put racks of GPUs. i'm pretty sure both OnLive and GeForce Now are/were setting up their hardware in these CDN data centers. i played an action game on OnLive and for once in my life completed it. that was on an awful cable connection and 2.4Ghz wi-fi. every hour or 2 there'd be a 1 or 2 second glitch where the audio stopped, then played back at 2X speed to catch up to game play. if you can withstand buggy bullshit from ubisoft or bethesda, then you can stomach that easily. but sadly skepticism in streaming is correct. PC gaming is a cock-measuring competition where you try build the sickest rig. in large part due to marketing (e.g. the "bit wars", nVidias paid internet commenters and rigging of benchmarks). after decades of competing on performance, these same companies are now making chips for the Nintendo Switch (nVidia) and making streaming services (MSFT, Sony and nVidia). now they'll try tell us picture quality and latency doesn't matter, which it really doesn't. but they've trained gamers to care about pixel counts, frame rates, GameWorks features, AA, texture filter, etc. the companies best positioned to market streaming are Nintendo and Apple, since they haven't built their brands heavily on performance. the smartest thing Microsoft could do is put their Windows 10 published games on a rebranded GeForce Now service, and publish it on Switch. the deal would involve revenue sharing and Microsoft becoming a PC and streaming-only publisher.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 04:46
|
|
|
streaming games is dumb as hell and will never work for anything where responses to input are required
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 05:35
|
|
|
all these companies tried x and failed because of y. y hasn't changed and we aren't working on it, but we're trying x again because me too!
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 05:37
|
|
|
HAIL eSATA-n posted:streaming games is dumb as hell and will never work for anything where responses to input are required just render all possible inputs in a huge tree and stream the correct path to the user, duh
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 06:52
|
|
|
Streamed games feel terrible, input latency is much too high. And that's on a great wired cable connection. It's like gaming on a terrible TV but much worse. I'm not looking forward to only playing Killzone 2 in the future.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 08:00
|
|
|
Illusive gently caress Man posted:if it was physically possible, i think a cloud gaming service would be cool as poo poo
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 08:17
|
|
|
Lambert posted:Streamed games feel terrible, input latency is much too high. And that's on a great wired cable connection. It's like gaming on a terrible TV but much worse. I'm not looking forward to only playing Killzone 2 in the future. input latency is even more critical with VR as well, even just a couple ms extra delay induces severe nausea. game streaming is bullshit for idiots.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 08:21
|
|
|
i think for streaming games you'd have to have a local machine doing the latency-sensitive rendering and input handing and such, and then the machine you're streaming it from can handle the game logic and so on you might ask yourself what this actually buys you since everyone still needs a beefy local machine, but then i say "drm" and all the video game producers start nodding along as though it's a good idea
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 08:53
|
|
|
Jabor posted:i think for streaming games you'd have to have a local machine doing the latency-sensitive rendering and input handing and such, and then the machine you're streaming it from can handle the game logic and so on
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 08:59
|
|
|
have you guys seen the input lag on a modern tv outside game mode? 100ms is way more than whatever your cdn latency is and console gamers put up with that everywhere
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 11:29
|
|
|
TwoDice posted:have you guys seen the input lag on a modern tv outside game mode? 100ms is way more than whatever your cdn latency is and console gamers put up with that everywhere More like 20-30 ms with any modern TV. Still entirely too much. And playing on a TV with that much input latency already feels terrible. Adding a round trip to and from the next GPU farm, encoding time on top sounds even worse. Lambert fucked around with this message at 11:35 on Jun 29, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 11:33
|
|
|
HAIL eSATA-n posted:streaming games is dumb as hell and will never work for anything where responses to input are required Same but your posts.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 12:35
|
|
|
Schadenboner posted:Same but your posts. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 13:34
|
|
|
also i would guess that sticking rendering in edge data centers is a bit more complicated than a cdn. like, storage is pretty fungible, data can be replicated, bad disks can be detected and swapped out. trying to create consistent real time performance and reliability with a bunch of lovely gpus seems challenging
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 13:38
|
|
|
the real hurdle isn't raw latency as much as it is variation in that latency. high input latency will make a game feel sluggish but people rapidly get used to it just like those on dial up got used to high latency online gameplay. variation in frame arrival times on the other hand makes things look choppy even if the FPS is high and input latency swinging significantly will make a game feel pretty much unplayable.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 14:47
|
|
|
Shifty Pony posted:the real hurdle isn't raw latency as much as it is variation in that latency. high input latency will make a game feel sluggish but people rapidly get used to it just like those on dial up got used to high latency online gameplay. this person games a 200 ping that stays at 200 is vastly better than flipping back and forth from 30 to 90
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 14:55
|
|
|
Shifty Pony posted:the real hurdle isn't raw latency as much as it is variation in that latency. high input latency will make a game feel sluggish but people rapidly get used to it just like those on dial up got used to high latency online gameplay. nah dialup users never had to deal with sluggish inputs, they had to deal with lag related to the results of those inputs. Like I shot a dude and it fired immediately when I clicked, but maybe the server and I disagree on where he was. This makes the game still feel ok to play, but creates what looks like buggy gameplay i.e. I shot a dude and he didn't die. game streaming is totally different because you're going to click to shoot and then there will be a delay in the shot. this makes the game feel like slow garbage. its like using a mouse on a mac. the processing of your inputs lag behind whats going on on screen and everything feels slow.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 14:57
|
|
|
Jabor posted:i think for streaming games you'd have to have a local machine doing the latency-sensitive rendering and input handing and such, and then the machine you're streaming it from can handle the game logic and so on lol PleasureKevin posted:PC gaming is a cock-measuring competition where you try build the sickest rig. in large part due to marketing (e.g. the "bit wars", nVidias paid internet commenters and rigging of benchmarks). this gives me pleasure, kevin
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 15:51
|
|
|
flakeloaf posted:this person games lol no. 200 ping is unplayable. 30 to 90 will be compensated by client side prediction. 200ms delay in inputs as w/ game streaming is not worth even attempting
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 15:52
|
|
|
it'd work for a lot of games, just not fps or competitive multiplayer there is at least some market for it - onlive made some money after all i doubt its big enough for google to remain interested in it though
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 15:56
|
|
|
for games where its not critical the game could probably be played on the local system.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 15:59
|
|
|
Shaggar posted:nah dialup users never had to deal with sluggish inputs, they had to deal with lag related to the results of those inputs. Like I shot a dude and it fired immediately when I clicked, but maybe the server and I disagree on where he was. This makes the game still feel ok to play, but creates what looks like buggy gameplay i.e. I shot a dude and he didn't die. it was so dependent on the game. nearly all did client side interface reactions and most did hitscan weapon impacts but many handled projectiles server-side in ways that made the latency very very apparent (a rocket not spawning or spawning frozen in your face and not having any velocity until the server responded). usually it was games that was initially optimized for LAN play with internet play added late in the dev cycle or patched in. I guess the thing most yospos-ers would identify with would be the pain of using vnc or rdp over a vpn.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 16:01
|
|
|
the idea is to have games run on a chromecast that look like they're being run on a $2k+ computer
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 16:02
|
|
|
I never got multiplayer. Like, I enjoy playing stuff like FNV explicitly because of the fact there aren't people proposing "loot drop parties" (or whatever, that was a thing in Everquest which would have been the last multiplayer game I ever really did) and ruining my immersion.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 16:07
|
|
|
Shifty Pony posted:it was so dependent on the game. nearly all did client side interface reactions and most did hitscan weapon impacts but many handled projectiles server-side in ways that made the latency very very apparent (a rocket not spawning or spawning frozen in your face and not having any velocity until the server responded). usually it was games that was initially optimized for LAN play with internet play added late in the dev cycle or patched in. the big difference is input lag feels significantly different from client/server lag. You can do a lot of work to reduce apparent client/server lag, but reducing input lag is much harder.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 16:09
|
|
|
Shaggar posted:the big difference is input lag feels significantly different from client/server lag. You can do a lot of work to reduce apparent client/server lag, but reducing input lag is much harder. good thing google has had so much experience fighting input lag with android! although critically not all that much success
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 16:15
|
|
|
yeah this is all assuming you've solved software input lag which is still a problem on linuxes like android and osx. the input lag caused by your physical layer is the big issue wrt streaming.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 16:17
|
|
|
Schadenboner posted:I never got multiplayer. Like, I enjoy playing stuff like FNV explicitly because of the fact there aren't people proposing "loot drop parties" (or whatever, that was a thing in Everquest which would have been the last multiplayer game I ever really did) and ruining my immersion. i know it's difficult for goons to understand but sometimes people enjoy interacting with other people
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 16:24
|
|
|
CommunistPancake posted:i know it's difficult for goons to understand but sometimes people enjoy interacting with other people sure, but not online lol gaming is a shameful & solitary activity and should only happen alone in the dark
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 16:47
|
|
|
Krankenstyle posted:alone in the dark That's a real classic.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 17:40
|
|
|
Lambert posted:That's a real classic. leeches don't have stingers what the gently caress is that thing e: wait that was out of this world what was alone in the dark
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 17:49
|
|
|
200ms server latency is playable, you just get shot around corners a bit (because you weren't around the corner yet on the other guy's screen). not ideal but it's still workable. hell it's even playable without lag compensation, you just get used to leading even your hitscan shots. then you go to lan and start potatoing everything because you're leading people too much, lmao
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 17:55
|
|
|
Lambert posted:That's a real classic.  flakeloaf posted:leeches don't have stingers what the gently caress is that thing youre thinking of another world (out of this world is the shameful american title). also the alien leeches with stingers obviously have stingers because theyre alien i mean cmon alone in the dark is the fixed-3d lovecraftian mansion detective vs zombie ghosts
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 18:49
|
|
|
flakeloaf posted:leeches don't have stingers what the gently caress is that thing ...an alien? christ it's right in the title
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 18:59
|
|
|
i'm in the alpha 
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 19:00
|
|
|
Fuzzy Mammal posted:i'm in the alpha please get out of the alpha, and yospos
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 19:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 00:34 |
|
|
Krankenstyle posted:sure, but not online lol
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2018 20:04
|
|
