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Neddy Seagoon posted:I'm kinda surprised none of the retrogaming crowd have tried to kickstart for building new CRT TV's. What I think is more feasible and where everyone would win would be sort of the opposite: low resolution, but large OLED screens. I'm sure I annoy people to death saying this but seeing snes games on the n3ds xl was a life changing moment for me (for lack of a better term, and yes it sounds ridiculous but I can't think of a better word). Ever since the late 1990s when I hooked up my PC to a TV to play snes roms, I was obsessed with trying to get them to look perfect. The only time I was ever able to fail a blind test was my Wii hooked up to my crt. But that was a crt. And the reason I couldn't tell the difference was simply because it ran the proper resolution on the Wii. When I saw snes games running on the n3ds xl it almost blew my loving balls off. I was constantly obsessing on weird sketchy handhelds like the GP2X or hacked PSPs using every different filter but finding they all looked like poo poo. All it took was an n3ds xl with its low-rear end resolution screen and I was loving done. I never needed to waste my goddamn time and money trying to get old games to look perfect any longer. No filters, and none of the negatives of a crt on top of it! It looks better than an actual crt. All because it's a high quality screen (IPS lottery), it's large, and it's the proper resolution. So long story short, I think a way better, and more realistic Kickstarter, should be for a 25"+ OLED that runs at like 320x240 or whatever. Yes I know that Secret of Mana menu screens will look a little weird. I can live with that.
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Jun 30, 2018 04:53
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Uncle at Nintendo posted:What I think is more feasible and where everyone would win would be sort of the opposite: low resolution, but large OLED screens. This man is smart. OLEDs are good and good for retro. I could totally see something like this happening some day.
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Jun 30, 2018 04:57
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If they can't already, OLED displays will be able to closely approximate the CRT aesthetic anyway. Input lag is getting better, too.
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Jun 30, 2018 05:06
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Monopthalmus posted:This man is smart. OLEDs are good and good for retro. I could totally see something like this happening some day. Thank you  Believe it or not the aforementioned GP2X Wiz had an OLED screen (one of the earliest devices with one ever) and at 320x240 the NES and Genesis looked absolutely mind-blowing on it. It was just too small of a screen and not powerful enough to emulate snes games. For reference, I am not as impressed with how the snes looks on my n3ds. It's a regular sized one also with a top IPS screen. But the n3ds xl is where it's like "holy poo poo, this is the best an snes game will ever look". azurite posted:If they can't already, OLED displays will be able to closely approximate the CRT aesthetic anyway. Input lag is getting better, too. That's still with using crts flaws though. What I'm suggesting (and you will notice on a n3ds xl running snes games) is that you get both the flat screen and zero scanlines. And no pixelated graphics.
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Jun 30, 2018 05:09
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dishwasherlove posted:I feel like there was a Japanese Point Blank collection for Ps2 that also had Time Crisis 1 in it so that solves a few problems. There very much is, and I have it on my SD card in my PS2 HDD adapter thing, along with the entire Time Crisis PS2 run and Virtua Cop Elite. My heart is still with TC2 because I played the unholy dogshit out of it at the Nickel Nickel I worked at in 2001. Still kinda miffed there’s no easy pedal solution for home console that doesn’t involve stepping on a controller.
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Jun 30, 2018 05:48
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Zaphod42 posted:There is Anyone have one of these? How is it on PC?
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Jun 30, 2018 06:45
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Light Gun Man posted:Anyone have one of these? How is it on PC? You of all people should know, surely  .I actually looked up the reviews for them, and apparently while they do work they're also made of very cheap plastic and parts that're prone to breaking.
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Jun 30, 2018 07:13
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Neddy Seagoon posted:You of all people should know, surely Why do you think I want it?  Too bad it's kinda weak. I get that it's a bit niche but I'd expect it to last awhile at that price or to just be a bit cheaper then, jeez. I'll keep it in mind though.
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Jun 30, 2018 09:31
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Uncle at Nintendo posted:So long story short, I think a way better, and more realistic Kickstarter, should be for a 25"+ OLED that runs at like 320x240 or whatever. Yes I know that Secret of Mana menu screens will look a little weird. I can live with that. Why not make it 640x480 and use nearest-neighbor scaling for lower resolutions?
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Jun 30, 2018 10:18
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Uncle at Nintendo posted:So long story short, I think a way better, and more realistic Kickstarter, should be for a 25"+ OLED that runs at like 320x240 or whatever. Yes I know that Secret of Mana menu screens will look a little weird. I can live with that. I'm not sure what the benefit of an SD OLED would be compared to just using commodity 4K OLEDs. 4K is exactly 9x taller than 240p so you can do perfect integer scaling with no borders, plus CRT shaders work very well given 9x9 pixels to reproduce each source pixel.
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Jun 30, 2018 10:43
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repiv posted:I'm not sure what the benefit of an SD OLED would be compared to just using commodity 4K OLEDs. 4K is exactly 9x taller than 240p so you can do perfect integer scaling with no borders, plus CRT shaders work very well given 9x9 pixels to reproduce each source pixel. I guess you could but like I had mentioned, with my example, there'd be no crt shaders. It would look perfect using zero of the quirky effects that hid how pixelated those games could look. For example, snes on the n3ds look flawless with zero scanlines and no fake aperture grill. That's why I said I felt it actually looks better than a crt. All New Sonic posted:Why not make it 640x480 and use nearest-neighbor scaling for lower resolutions? But then don't the majority of games not look pixel perfect? Is it really worth it for the n64 Resident Evil 2 menus and like three snes games?
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Jun 30, 2018 14:30
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You don't have to use CRT shaders with a 4K display, that's just another option. With integer scaling you'll get the same results as a native 240p panel, there's no practical difference between a single giant square pixel and a solid coloured 9x9 square of smaller pixels.
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Jun 30, 2018 14:41
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repiv posted:I'm not sure what the benefit of an SD OLED would be compared to just using commodity 4K OLEDs. 4K is exactly 9x taller than 240p so you can do perfect integer scaling with no borders, plus CRT shaders work very well given 9x9 pixels to reproduce each source pixel. 480 doesn’t integer scale to 4K so any 480i content would have to go through a bit of scaling and filtering. A 1440p monitor would be ideal because 240, 480, and 720 all integer scale. It’s too bad that I’ve never seen a tv or monitor that actually uses nearest neighbor. They always filter it and lower resolutions look blurry.
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Jun 30, 2018 14:51
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Yeah, scalers are the issue. I'm sure there will eventually be an XRGB/OSSC equivalent with support for 1440p/4K output though.
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Jun 30, 2018 14:55
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Sorta related, for those who have seen the "world's largest pac man" and the galaga version in person (probably at Dave and Buster's), what is the screen? It says LED here but is it essentially a section of a sports stadium Jumbo Tron? It looks really nice in person. https://www.thepinballcompany.com/product/worlds-largest-pac-man-arcade/ https://www.bandainamco-am.com/game.php?gameid=65
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Jun 30, 2018 17:10
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Spent some time playing Snes games last night on the Super NT. Everytime I play it I think to myself, "Wow, for some reason the audio sounds like poo poo." I know modern TV's usually have lovely speakers, but it doesn't sound that bad when I hear the audio while playing my Switch or PS4. Hard to describe how it sounds, just kind of sounds muddy/cloudy to what I remembered. I checked options on the Super NT and didn't see anything relevant. Is this just my TV having lovely speakers?
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Jun 30, 2018 17:14
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katkillad2 posted:Spent some time playing Snes games last night on the Super NT. Everytime I play it I think to myself, "Wow, for some reason the audio sounds like poo poo." I know modern TV's usually have lovely speakers, but it doesn't sound that bad when I hear the audio while playing my Switch or PS4. Hard to describe how it sounds, just kind of sounds muddy/cloudy to what I remembered. I checked options on the Super NT and didn't see anything relevant. Is this just my TV having lovely speakers? All TVs have lovely speakers Try updating the supernt firmware. To me it sounds identical to a real snes with the spdif mod
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Jun 30, 2018 17:20
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katkillad2 posted:Spent some time playing Snes games last night on the Super NT. Everytime I play it I think to myself, "Wow, for some reason the audio sounds like poo poo." I know modern TV's usually have lovely speakers, but it doesn't sound that bad when I hear the audio while playing my Switch or PS4. Hard to describe how it sounds, just kind of sounds muddy/cloudy to what I remembered. I checked options on the Super NT and didn't see anything relevant. Is this just my TV having lovely speakers? Get yourself a soundbar.
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Jun 30, 2018 17:26
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Light Gun Man posted:Anyone have one of these? How is it on PC? Unless something new has come out the AimTrak is the best option. I've wanted one for a few years but have never quite pulled the trigger because it's pricey for something I'd use, generously, once a month. PC & PS2 (Guncon 2) compatible. I don't believe Guncon 2's work with PS1 games in backwards compat either. So no native PS1, but it'd work via emulator. https://www.ultimarc.com/aimtrak.html
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Jun 30, 2018 20:10
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The Milkman posted:Unless something new has come out the AimTrak is the best option. I've wanted one for a few years but have never quite pulled the trigger because it's pricey for something I'd use, generously, once a month. PC & PS2 (Guncon 2) compatible. I don't believe Guncon 2's work with PS1 games in backwards compat either. So no native PS1, but it'd work via emulator. I have one of these and use it with MAME and it’s great. Basically it emulates a mouse pointer and uses a wii-like sensor to track the gun’s position.
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Jun 30, 2018 20:22
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falz posted:Sorta related, for those who have seen the "world's largest pac man" and the galaga version in person (probably at Dave and Buster's), what is the screen? Yeah I think it’s basically a whole bunch of individual LEDs with each one being an individual “pixel”. My gf and I played the Pac-Man version at a Round One, it’s a lot of fun with two players
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Jun 30, 2018 21:53
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katkillad2 posted:Spent some time playing Snes games last night on the Super NT. Everytime I play it I think to myself, "Wow, for some reason the audio sounds like poo poo." I know modern TV's usually have lovely speakers, but it doesn't sound that bad when I hear the audio while playing my Switch or PS4. Hard to describe how it sounds, just kind of sounds muddy/cloudy to what I remembered. I checked options on the Super NT and didn't see anything relevant. Is this just my TV having lovely speakers? If your other consoles sound fine then you'll need to do some fussing around to see what's up. My Super NT sounds great. Can you plug some headphones into the TV and see if that improves it? But yeah, like others have said modern TVs are too thin to house decent speakers which is why sound bars are a thing now.
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Jul 1, 2018 00:04
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Get yourself a
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Jul 1, 2018 00:34
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Resolution is one thing but modern displays can't replicate a crt's "glow" without using graphic shaders like bloom. Just compare the lighting effect in the intro for Super Metroid: CRT: https://youtu.be/5yHTTwH2HDs?t=4m40s Modern display: https://youtu.be/yB317FOcU0Y?t=5m52s Now with shaders: https://youtu.be/qBzB0YdHn64?t=44s I know it most it doesn't bug most people but I really miss that glowing effect on old TV's.
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Jul 1, 2018 00:46
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I played one of those jumbo Pac-Mans here in Las Vegas a couple years ago, but had a rough time because the input lag was pretty bad. I'm going to assume whatever hardware drives the LED panels wasn't made with gaming in mind.
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Jul 1, 2018 01:09
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Joe Chill posted:Resolution is one thing but modern displays can't replicate a crt's "glow" without using graphic shaders like bloom. OLEDs definitely can, which is why it's so disappointing that I haven't seen any emulators that take advantage of HDR output. I'd love to see some vector games on one.
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Jul 1, 2018 02:07
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Light Gun Man posted:Anyone have one of these? How is it on PC? I have one, although I lost the dongle so I can't use it anymore. I'm thinking about getting another. Its really good. FWIW my gun has lasted for years and still works perfectly, I just lost the drat dongle 
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Jul 1, 2018 03:07
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I think some of you guys collect the old Nintendo magazines, somone might be interested to know that Retrogames UK has gotten a couple of issues of the Club Nintendo Magazine for about £7 apiece; Issue 5 - 1991 Issue 6 - 1991 Issue 2 - 1992
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Jul 1, 2018 10:44
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The Milkman posted:Unless something new has come out the AimTrak is the best option. I've wanted one for a few years but have never quite pulled the trigger because it's pricey for something I'd use, generously, once a month. PC & PS2 (Guncon 2) compatible. I don't believe Guncon 2's work with PS1 games in backwards compat either. So no native PS1, but it'd work via emulator. GutBomb posted:I have one of these and use it with MAME and it’s great. Basically it emulates a mouse pointer and uses a wii-like sensor to track the gun’s position. It's weird to me that this is like still the height of technology for this. You'd think we'd figure out something new by now. Makes me wonder if you can use a PS Move setup on PC, hmm. Zaphod42 posted:I have one, although I lost the dongle so I can't use it anymore. I'm thinking about getting another. Its really good. That's unfortunate. Glad to hear yours otherwise worked fine, though.
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Jul 1, 2018 16:13
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Light Gun Man posted:It's weird to me that this is like still the height of technology for this. You'd think we'd figure out something new by now. Makes me wonder if you can use a PS Move setup on PC, hmm. I don't remember exactly how crt light guns work, but it probably has to do with timing more than anything. How many hdtv display technogies do we gave now? Led, oled, plasma, DLP.. each with their own latencies. Maybe once we're all using the same thing it can get figured out again. The original batch of HDTVs in the y2k era had rear projection CRTs. Does anyone know if light guns worked on those?
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Jul 1, 2018 16:19
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Light Gun Man posted:It's weird to me that this is like still the height of technology for this. You'd think we'd figure out something new by now. Makes me wonder if you can use a PS Move setup on PC, hmm. You could use a PS Move or a Wiimote but they'd probably be less accurate. Its not exactly 'height of technology' its just a niche market nobody cares to support anymore  falz posted:I don't remember exactly how crt light guns work, but it probably has to do with timing more than anything. Yes, CRT light guns would take advantage of the fact that CRT screens were produced one pixel at a time, sweeping from top to bottom, and would track the update of the phosphors. In an LCD TV you render an entire frame at once, all the little pixels all flip their colors from one screen to the next screen at the same time, so you don't have that sweeping update beam to sync off of and use to determine position. As a result LCD light guns will require some kind of Wii style external sensor. The Super Scope HAS an external sensor but it only uses it to aid in calibration, so it still doesn't work on LCD TVs. Those rear projection CRTs should work with light guns, but they also weigh like 2 tons.
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Jul 1, 2018 17:05
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Zaphod42 posted:You could use a PS Move or a Wiimote but they'd probably be less accurate. Actually those sort of games still exist, they just made the leap to the next logical platform; VR headsets.
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Jul 1, 2018 17:13
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Actually those sort of games still exist, they just made the leap to the next logical platform; VR headsets. That's true. Shooting galleries feel so drat good in VR. Until Dawn: Rush of Blood on PSVR is literally a shooting gallery, and games like Arizona Sunshine on PC/PSVR are like a shooting gallery + some basic FPS movement.
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Jul 1, 2018 17:15
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They appear to still make light gun arcade games like Time Crisis 5. Is that just the mouse cursor method?
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Jul 1, 2018 17:17
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The modern equivalents are all the various motion controls like the Wiimote, PS Move, and all the controllers designed for use with VR headsets. If you need to simulate a 2-hander, the Wii has its own Zapper... the PS3 has the Sharpshooter...  and on PS4 there's the Aim controller.  For 1-handed goodness the PS3 has a gun shunt. 
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Jul 1, 2018 17:17
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Zaphod42 posted:That's true. Shooting galleries feel so drat good in VR. Until Dawn: Rush of Blood on PSVR is literally a shooting gallery, and games like Arizona Sunshine on PC/PSVR are like a shooting gallery + some basic FPS movement. If you have not played Sairento, you should play Sairento. It's on Steam and it's amazingly good fun  .
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Jul 1, 2018 17:18
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falz posted:They appear to still make light gun arcade games like Time Crisis 5. Is that just the mouse cursor method? Arcades could still be sourcing some kinda CRTs, dunno Or it could just be a custom gun setup similar to the topgun or wiimote
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Jul 1, 2018 17:24
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univbee posted:The modern equivalents are all the various motion controls like the Wiimote, PS Move Yes those are motion controllers but the light-gun aspect of them uses an external sensor. They're not using Accelerometers to aim guns. They just happen to have bundled those techs together on wii and ps4.
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Jul 1, 2018 17:25
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Uncle at Nintendo posted:I'm sure I annoy people to death saying this but seeing snes games on the n3ds xl was a life changing moment for me (for lack of a better term, and yes it sounds ridiculous but I can't think of a better word). I bought ALTTP on my n3dsxl specifically because of your past comments on this. You are 100% right, it's real good. repiv posted:I'm not sure what the benefit of an SD OLED would be compared to just using commodity 4K OLEDs. 4K is exactly 9x taller than 240p so you can do perfect integer scaling with no borders, plus CRT shaders work very well given 9x9 pixels to reproduce each source pixel. So super nintendo in 4k would be... SNES9x
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Jul 1, 2018 17:39
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Zaphod42 posted:Arcades could still be sourcing some kinda CRTs, dunno https://www.bandainamco-am.com/game.php?gameid=54
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Jul 1, 2018 17:51
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