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ErIog
Jul 11, 2001

:nsacloud:

BaronVonVaderham posted:

I'm not entirely sure where you're imagining I stand exactly that you'd say poo poo like "you're basically just admitting Bernie would have won" or "I'm sorry leftists are the ones pointing out how politics works and drawing your ire." We're on the same side, pal, and this is kind of exactly what I'm talking about.

I 100% supported Bernie for those reasons. I was just apparently in the minority of Bernie supporters I knew directly who were able to choose the lesser of two evils and vote for Hillary. It was also a lot of my original point: The democratic party doesn't offer a coherent ideology. I read a lovely book recently (that nonetheless had some decent points unfortunately obscured by the worst writing I've encountered in a while), "Anti-Politics: On the Demonization of Ideology, Authority and the State"; it made exactly this argument, that liberals here and abroad (the author is from the UK so writing primarily about the Labour Party) don't offer a coherent platform in an effort to court everyone and not alienate any potential voters by committing to a clear message. For all its horrible flaws, the conservatives are able to remain united by things like wanting to "protect freedom of religion" (as they see it, anyway).

Most of those I knew personally who supported Bernie refused to vote for Clinton because she was basically a shill for Wall Street, was just a continuation of the old guard, etc. While all true, none of these outweighed, "We need to stop nearly-literal Hitler 2.0 before we worry about how Bernie was screwed over." It's nothing Clinton did explicitly, it's a problem of the party in general being unable to set aside relatively minor differences to agree on a core ideology to build upon.

I disagreed with Bernie on so many things, for example his stance on GMOs that is straight up anti-science and wrong. But no politician is ever going to be perfect. Even though that's an INCREDIBLY important issue to me, as a scientist, I weighed that against the far more critical things I saw were wrong with Clinton, like the continually growing influence of corporate interests in campaign finances. We fall victim to the same flawed reasoning gun nuts use as to why we shouldn't try to pass sane gun control: "It's not going to be 100% perfect, so it's not worth trying." We want our candidates and our allies to agree with us on everything, and that's never going to happen. Part of politics is seeking those incremental gains and accepting you're not going to get everything you want in one election cycle.

My point is it's something I witness constantly, where people perseverate on a pet issue they value above the greater good. I watch people attack people ON THEIR SIDE in debates on facebook because they used a wrong word or disagree on a minor point and undermine the entire larger issue. Patton Oswalt does a wonderful bit about this in relation to LGBTQ issues and being unable to keep up with the terminology:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5TAUhxKGpA

Then again, these same people I know actively believe they can petition Disney to take a mulligan on The Last Jedi and remake the movie because they didn't get exactly what they wanted, so maybe there's a larger cultural issue behind all of this.

The reason I'm arguing with you is because your logic is really perplexing. You say "The democratic party doesn't offer a coherent ideology." which we both agree on, but then instead of focusing on the people who made that happen you decide to punch left at the wing of the party trying to drag the party toward a more coherent ideology.

Like you knew some Bernie supporters who didn't vote for Hillary, but statistically that's just not that many people. I realize Trump won due to the lack of a few thousand Hillary votes in key areas, but the reason it was close enough to be swung by that small of a margin is because turn-out was so low due to the mutually-agreed point that the party is without any kind of coherent ideology or morality. I just don't see Bernie supporters or leftists as the reason the party lacks clarity because they've never held much actual sway with the DNC leadership.

So it sounds like you're just blaming the messenger for pointing out the core reasons the DNC is failing as a party.

Edit: I realize that this is the political e-mails thread, by the way, and that 2016 chat is dumb so I promise not to argue this point any further than I have.

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BaronVonVaderham
Jul 31, 2011

All hail the queen!

ErIog posted:

instead of focusing on the people who made that happen you decide to punch left at the wing of the party trying to drag the party toward a more coherent ideology.

What the actual gently caress are you talking about? But whatever, nothing I say is going to make a difference if you're determined to hear what you want to hear. Moving on.

Chimera-gui
Mar 20, 2014
I'll take "poo poo that Socrates never said for 500 Alex. Oh look, the daily loving double!"

Bonus fun fact: Fox News engages in insults far more than CNN and MSMBC combined!

Bombadilillo
Feb 28, 2009

The dock really fucks a case or nerfing it.

Chimera-gui posted:

I'll take "poo poo that Socrates never said for 500 Alex. Oh look, the daily loving double!"

Bonus fun fact: Fox News engages in insults far more than CNN and MSMBC combined!

Let along the president who can't say a sentence without dropping a "shes low IQ"

The whole kneeling protest was turned into rear end in a top hat hate veterans. I cant live in this reality anymore.

Gridlocked
Aug 2, 2014

MR. STUPID MORON
WITH AN UGLY FACE
AND A BIG BUTT
AND HIS BUTT SMELLS
AND HE LIKES TO KISS
HIS OWN BUTT
by Roger Hargreaves
More extremely pissed of right wingers please

the_steve
Nov 9, 2005

We're always hiring!

Chimera-gui posted:

Bonus fun fact: Fox News engages in insults far more than CNN and MSMBC combined!

Right Wingers are the loving masters at the art of "No U", so that's nothing new.

Nth Doctor
Sep 7, 2010

Darkrai used Dream Eater!
It's super effective!


What the gently caress is this insanity?

Katt
Nov 14, 2017

Nth Doctor posted:

What the gently caress is this insanity?


Socially liberal but financially conservative people don't exist.



Libertarians claim they are socially liberal because they want to legalize pot but they oppose every single other social improvement.

Truga
May 4, 2014
Lipstick Apathy
When the gently caress did social and economic leaning become a split thing anyway? You literally can't be socially liberal if you're fiscally conservative, because unless every worker can say no to every employer at every point in time, well, that's called slavery isn't it

duz
Jul 11, 2005

Come on Ilhan, lets go bag us a shitpost


Because people want to deny they're against social change because they know it makes them look like an rear end in a top hat.

Defenestration
Aug 10, 2006

"It wasn't my fault that my first unconscious thought turned out to be-"
"Jesus, kid, what?"
"That something smelled delicious!"


Grimey Drawer
a bit of an oldie



I'm the rear end in a top hat that shows up to table at a job fair even though he's not hiring, then waxes on about how you someone should totally hire this farm kid

Invalid Validation
Jan 13, 2008




There’s a reason that farm kid wants a summer job. It’s to get away from a lovely farm life they don’t want to do cause unless you’re family owns a huge farm conglomerate and rich as poo poo farmers are very much poor.

Professor Beetus
Apr 12, 2007

They can fight us
But they'll never Beetus
My dad was a "farm kid" and turned out to be a massive fygm rear end in a top hat who rode high on a masochistic work ethic and incredible amounts of white privilege. I'm sure that rear end in a top hat who wrote that editorial is cut from the same cloth.

Invalid Validation
Jan 13, 2008




I dunno why being a workaholic is considered such a good trait in this country. Being away from your family and caring only about money is actually kind of a bad thing. Great for corporations but bad for people.

ToxicSlurpee
Nov 5, 2003

-=SEND HELP=-


Pillbug

Invalid Validation posted:

Great for corporations but bad for people.

This is exactly why.

Zanzibar Ham
Mar 17, 2009

You giving me the cold shoulder? How cruel.


Grimey Drawer

Invalid Validation posted:

Great for corporations but bad for people.

Great for people but bad for people? What?

Invalid Validation
Jan 13, 2008




Great for corporate exploitation bad for families? I agree it’s not said well but you should get the point.

Zanzibar Ham
Mar 17, 2009

You giving me the cold shoulder? How cruel.


Grimey Drawer

Invalid Validation posted:

Great for corporate exploitation bad for families? I agree it’s not said well but you should get the point.

Nah, was just making a dumb joke about how those idiots think/treat corporations are/as people.

Defenestration
Aug 10, 2006

"It wasn't my fault that my first unconscious thought turned out to be-"
"Jesus, kid, what?"
"That something smelled delicious!"


Grimey Drawer

Gridlocked posted:

More extremely pissed of right wingers please
and so you shall receive


poor widdle cops
is "the color in our lives is vanishing" a dog whistle somehow?


do all the racist things


so close


oh sorry, I only argued that you were racist because you're extremely racist


how does polling work


keep his name out your mouth


white babies on parade


politically correct


criticism


respect


civility


more civility


extreme civility on this teenager


yeah ok *raises hand*


treasured family mementos? important papers? Naw, GUNZ and GUN ACCESSORIES


p sure you thought they were enemies of the US for at least 25 years now


sorry about your eyeballs


donating to Education


lol if you think trump gave up a single dime


multiple...things can kill people and they're both bad


sure it is


men: continue to suck and never get good at anything that might be perceived as feminine.


*sharp inhale

WAR

CRIMINAL

ALLEN

WEST

*large exhale
*whispers* welcome back

PhazonLink
Jul 17, 2010
Stupid question about you guys that take time compiling regressives dumps for dead internet forums, but are you noticing any changes in your sources as Russian troll networks get outed, decommission, etc?

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin

Mercedes Colomar
Nov 1, 2008

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Accurate since he's also a war criminal. A pro Prokhor Zakharov image macro.

T-man
Aug 22, 2010


Talk shit, get bzzzt.

SMAC prologue, but in real life

glory to the hive!

Katt
Nov 14, 2017


Speaking of cowards. The man who dodged the WW2 draft with the excuse that he had to tale care of his kids. Except he left the kids with his ex so he could spend time with his new girlfriend.

Goatse James Bond
Mar 28, 2010

If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

Invalid Validation posted:

Just doesn’t want people to know socialists love FIGS cause then he’d have to give them up.

also jesus hates those darn things, he used his magic powers to murder a fig tree

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006

Truga posted:

When the gently caress did social and economic leaning become a split thing anyway? You literally can't be socially liberal if you're fiscally conservative, because unless every worker can say no to every employer at every point in time, well, that's called slavery isn't it

South Park

John Wayne was a dated reference 20 years ago drat.

Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 06:19 on Jul 2, 2018

Keeshhound
Jan 14, 2010

Mad Duck Swagger

GreyjoyBastard posted:

also jesus hates loves those darn things, he used his magic powers to murder a fig tree

He killed the tree because it wouldn't give him delicious figs.

Ratoslov
Feb 15, 2012

Now prepare yourselves! You're the guests of honor at the Greatest Kung Fu Cannibal BBQ Ever!

GreyjoyBastard posted:

also jesus hates those darn things, he used his magic powers to murder a fig tree

I'm honestly surprised that fig tree isn't all over Christian occultism.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Defenestration posted:

a bit of an oldie



I'm the rear end in a top hat that shows up to table at a job fair even though he's not hiring, then waxes on about how you someone should totally hire this farm kid

I like how quickly this becomes masturbatory fanfiction about the virtues of farm work.

Invalid Validation posted:

I dunno why being a workaholic is considered such a good trait in this country. Being away from your family and caring only about money is actually kind of a bad thing. Great for corporations but bad for people.

Some addictions are encouraged as good things. Work, money, power.

Orange Devil fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Jul 2, 2018

darthbob88
Oct 13, 2011

YOSPOS

Defenestration posted:


lol if you think trump gave up a single dime
Hell, I remember it being a medium-large issue that he refused to even release control of his assets to a blind trust. He's still running Trump Org, still claiming profits from it, and still taking bribes from countries that want favorable treatment.

sheep-dodger
Feb 21, 2013


This has got to be the dumbest one in your entire compilation.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

Counterpoint: it literally is all of those things.

When you ask someone for something and they say no, that's denying them it. That's what the word means.

Keeshhound
Jan 14, 2010

Mad Duck Swagger
Even allowing all of that, it doesn't address that pharmacists are literally refusing to fill perscriptions that they don't believe in.

:downs: "What's that? Your baby is stillborn and your doctor has decided you need to utilize a drug induced abortion so you don't die of sepsis? Too bad, I know nothing about your circumstances, but I'm going to refuse to fill your perscription because I think abortion is murder!"

CuddleCryptid
Jan 11, 2013

Things could be going better

Keeshhound posted:

Even allowing all of that, it doesn't address that pharmacists are literally refusing to fill perscriptions that they don't believe in.

:downs: "What's that? Your baby is stillborn and your doctor has decided you need to utilize a drug induced abortion so you don't die of sepsis? Too bad, I know nothing about your circumstances, but I'm going to refuse to fill your perscription because I think abortion is murder!"

This can't be real. And yet, I believe it entirely.

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin
Happened in Phoenix last week.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

Not very surprising given the whole bullshit they pulled when they legalized SSM.

The Macaroni
Dec 20, 2002
...it does nothing.

Dr. Arbitrary posted:

Happened in Phoenix last week.
Holy poo poo. I'd heard the story but not the detail that the fetus had died. From a policy standpoint it shouldn't be relevant either way, but that just makes things even worse. :(

Keeshhound
Jan 14, 2010

Mad Duck Swagger
Sge gave a couple of interviews where she clarified that she wanted to have the child, but she'd miscarried, and her doctor perscribed the drugs to induce an abortion. But, since she hadn't been served a big enough poo poo sundae yet, when she went to have it filled, the pharmacist told her to her face, right there at the counter where the other customers could hear hat he wouldn't fill her perscription because of his "ethical beliefs."

darthbob88
Oct 13, 2011

YOSPOS

OwlFancier posted:

Counterpoint: it literally is all of those things.

When you ask someone for something and they say no, that's denying them it. That's what the word means.
TBH, I can see their argument. They're not paying for your healthcare/education/contraception, but you can still get a job and pay for your own whatever, thus you are not technically denied anything. Of course, this still runs into the problem that a shitload of people are denied jobs adequate to pay for education/contraception/healthcare.

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Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin

Keeshhound posted:

Sge gave a couple of interviews where she clarified that she wanted to have the child, but she'd miscarried, and her doctor perscribed the drugs to induce an abortion. But, since she hadn't been served a big enough poo poo sundae yet, when she went to have it filled, the pharmacist told her to her face, right there at the counter where the other customers could hear hat he wouldn't fill her perscription because of his "ethical beliefs."

The Pharmacy Counter where people might be able to hear thing is probably going to go nowhere, as it has special rules under HIIPA. As long as there was a line where other customers have to wait behind and no cell phones are allowed, it's probably okay.

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