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Early base cooling tip: Just putting a wall of insulating tiles between my starting area and the hot biome reduced air temperatures on the edge of the starting biome by 4 degrees.
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Jun 29, 2018 14:55
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the trick is getting the tiles researched in time for it to matter
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Jun 29, 2018 15:31
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Even putting near-freezing polluted water through a sieve results in a net reduction of heat energy. The output water has 4.2 joules/gram/degree * 313 degrees = 1314 joules/gram. Polluted water as cold as it can be has 6 joules/gram/degree * 253 degrees = 1518 joules/gram. Polluted water as hot as it can be before boiling has 6 joules/gram/degree * 393 degrees = 2358 joules/gram. So 1 kg polluted water being filtered per second works out to anywhere from 200 kJ a second of cooling to 1000 kJ a second. Wheezeworts for reference top out at 12 kJ per second in hydrogen and just 5 kJ per second in plain old oxygen like if you just scatter them around your base. (Yes, I should be using watts but whatever) Anti-entropy thermal nullifiers in hydrogen are about 200 kJ a second. So a thermo aquatuner dumping its output heat into your polluted water tank and then filtering it is worth up to 200 wheezeworts scattered around your base.
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Jun 29, 2018 17:11
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1337JiveTurkey posted:Even putting near-freezing polluted water through a sieve results in a net reduction of heat energy. The output water has 4.2 joules/gram/degree * 313 degrees = 1314 joules/gram. Polluted water as cold as it can be has 6 joules/gram/degree * 253 degrees = 1518 joules/gram. Polluted water as hot as it can be before boiling has 6 joules/gram/degree * 393 degrees = 2358 joules/gram. So 1 kg polluted water being filtered per second works out to anywhere from 200 kJ a second of cooling to 1000 kJ a second. Are there any example builds of how I could take advantage of this to remove ambient heat from my base? I could see a couple different ways it could be done, but I'm not sure what's the most efficient.
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Jun 29, 2018 17:23
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So, polluted water as a heat dump, run the heat through the sieve when its pretty loving hot to reduce it to 40, run that through wheeze room to make it bearable, put cold water back in bottom of base I assume also pipe oxygen through wheezy room and release at the bottom of the base for extra cooling
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Jun 29, 2018 17:30
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Gas being left-right biased makes a lot of my base failures suddenly much more explainable. Gas no longer being left-right biased means I can just keep doing what I was doing but with better results.
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Jun 29, 2018 17:49
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Wait what? I would definitely like to know more.
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Jun 29, 2018 17:51
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I have a sensor in my clean water set to activate at above 20 degrees that opens a valve to a single aquatuner in my (very hot) polluted water pool. This water goes around the base in a tungsten radiant pipe, keeping the base nice and cool, before it returns to the clean water pool. Generally, if base is hot, the water returned will be hotter than the water taken from the pool, and once the base cools itself down enough, the pool will cool itself to below 20 degrees and close the valve. Water from the hot pool runs through a sieve if the polluted water pool level gets too high, so a shitton of heat gets deleted every now and then. e2: oh, also, the hot polluted water tank is lined with abysallite tiles, the only opening being there for the bottle emptier, and this seems to do well enough to keep the heat in. Also, you want to release cold at the top, as cold seeps down okay-ish, and very badly up. My base is currently at a nice 20-25 degrees, just 2 squares up from where the cold pipe is installed it's 40+. e: dogstile posted:Wait what? Gas squares get simulated in turns, from top left to bottom right. This causes a tendency for lighter gasses to go left in addition to up, and heavier to go right, in addition to down. Truga fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Jun 29, 2018 |
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Jun 29, 2018 17:59
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Truga posted:Gas squares get simulated in turns, from top left to bottom right. This causes a tendency for lighter gasses to go left in addition to up, and heavier to go right, in addition to down. * Fixed the tendency of heavy gases to drift right and light gases to drift left
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Jun 29, 2018 18:13
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Nukelear v.2 posted:Are there any example builds of how I could take advantage of this to remove ambient heat from my base? I could see a couple different ways it could be done, but I'm not sure what's the most efficient. I don’t know if it’s the most efficient way but I usually run a pipe from my clean water reservoir through a thermo aquatuner and then run the pipe with the cool water throughout my base. Use radiant pipes in the spots where you really want it to cool down. If the reservoir is big enough it’s perfectly fine to just dump the water back in afterwards. I guess running radiant pipes next to radiant ventilation ducts could serve as a heat exchanger if you want to pump cold oxygen throughout the base but I haven’t personally done that yet.
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Jun 29, 2018 18:46
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I think I must be retarded because I can’t get power to work consistently even in sandbox. I’ve built huge elaborate hydrogen stacks that are supposed to self power and it never gets off the ground. I did the same with solar and shine bugs for giggles and it never did enough power. In short: I think I’m a dumb. Someone help me understand how to make power work in quantity so I know what to build for. Building a bunch of hamster wheels feels dumb. Oh and I tried steam last night and that just never worked - I’m not sure how that even works at all. I mean I get the principal but I’m not sure how you move the ridiculously hot steam out of your upper chamber to keep pressure low enough that it runs optimally.
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Jun 29, 2018 19:35
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idk any people that have gotten steam gen to work consistently "self powered" stuff rarely works the way it is advertised. hydrogen works well as an alt energy source. my like 5 patch old nat gas setup temple posted:Finally got a natural gas set-up. Had limited space due to the vertical shaft and a 2nd geyser being close. temple fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Jun 29, 2018 |
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Jun 29, 2018 19:43
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power 
gas
liquid 
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Don't discount a bunch of hamster wheels. That power grows out of the ground which is more than you can say about most of the other forms. Self sustained hydrogen is notoriously finicky because it requires your gas to work just so. With hatch ranching you can make a pretty good go of coal only unless or until you find a convenient renewable energy source.
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Jun 29, 2018 19:51
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temple posted:idk any people that have gotten steam gen to work consistently This doesn’t work anymore since they massively nerfed the natural gas output of fertilizer makers.
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Jun 30, 2018 01:55
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My farming is going well now after a couple of restarts. Day 50 again, everyone is fed, not going crazy and not melting from sickness. I've uncovered a few geysers which is nice, but also a little concerning. The copper volcano is my only access to copper now, and generally too hot for my dupes to farm from. Meanwhile, when I found a CO2 and polluted oxygen geyser in the slime I just decided 'nope' and removed airlock permissions... but the pressure in there is starting to build and I'm worried I'll see an airlock explode and a cloud of toxic air blast through my base.
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Jun 30, 2018 06:30
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is there a good beginners guide to this anyhwere? i tried it when it first came out and found it kinda impenetrable
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Jun 30, 2018 06:48
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I'm playing the game again for the first time since the oil update and there are a lot of new things I'm having fun with. I had one false start where I reacquainted myself with the game, with a lovely surrounding layout - almost entirely slime biome, no natural gas geysers that I ever found, and very little ice biome. My second try after I abandoned that save had my surrounding biomes mostly igneous for easy coal and algae, and 2 nat gas geysers close to the west side of my base. And some other good stuff too. Awesome! I found an ice biome above me with an AETN, so I setup my very first real cooling system:   I have the cooling chamber filled with hydrogen at 20 kg pressure, and now I can see that the snaking on the radiant gas pipes was way overkill, probably even without the heat spreaders behind them - the piped oxygen hits max cooling at 4 tiles deep, but like 95% of that at just 3. I broke it early on when some CO2 got in the system during maintenance and liquefied , which was a pretty great moment even if it was unintentional. I have a feeling this system could effectively cool a much larger volume of gas with some reconfiguration, but it's already exceeding my needs for the time being. I got lucky and tamed a natural glossy drecko very early on, and so far 100% of my plastic production has come from them:  The odd looking mealwood farms at the bottom are because their AI is busted and apparently they have trouble recognizing them as edible unless they can eat while they're hanging on a wall to the side. You can also see the normal drecko ghetto below, I keep them just as breeding stock for the occasional glossy egg they produce. Smart batteries are loving amazing, they make such a huge difference to both dupe labor and fuel efficiency:  I have the thresholds setup so the hydro generators activate first, then the nat gas, then coal. Buffers with a minimum timer are good for making one-way logic 'valves' between the lines. Last, I found a copper volcano and decided to experiment:  That is petroleum produced by piping regular crude oil behind it with a radiant pipe. It seems like the crude won't transition while within the line, it has to be outside in the world while at the correct temperature first, so it has to be vented out. Kind of quickly too, I found it cooled strangely fast while within insulated pipes exiting the heat exchanger. I suspect it had something to do with an abyssalite pipe section instead of something with more normal thermal characteristics, as it stopped being an issue when I rebuilt it out of igneous rock. I don't think I produced any natural gas, which seems strange - the in-pipe temperature is 2600+F which should be more than enough to vaporize it, but I think the game's inability to change crude oil liquid to petroleum liquid first blocks that. It's also strangely cool, but that may be that's because I passed only 10g / sec during testing. I'm in the process of building a receiving tank now, even if I do wind up producing some nat gas I could certainly use it. I'm eventually going to try setting up an automatic copper collecting setup, and a water dripping steam generator with that volcano - this thing could be incredibly useful. Especially given its location by an ice biome. metasynthetic fucked around with this message at 07:22 on Jun 30, 2018 |
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Jun 30, 2018 07:18
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So thus sieve thing seems really good. You just dump polluted water from the base into the dirty tank with an aquatuner in it? The aquatuner kills the germs by heating it up then you pump it through a sieve to purify it and destroy the heat and hey presto cool clean water to pump around the base?
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Jun 30, 2018 17:50
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sieve water temp is 40 degrees, which is a little too hot for my taste.
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Jun 30, 2018 18:57
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That's why you pump the clean water through the aquatuner that's heating the bad water.
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Jun 30, 2018 19:03
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Travic posted:So thus sieve thing seems really good. You just dump polluted water from the base into the dirty tank with an aquatuner in it? The aquatuner kills the germs by heating it up then you pump it through a sieve to purify it and destroy the heat and hey presto cool clean water to pump around the base? Pretty much, if you have the power for it, the system is pretty rad. Polluted water can store a crazy amount of heat and as JiveTurkey said, just sieving cold water actually reduces the amount of heat energy in your base (though it doesn't really feel like it). Also germs are surprisingly are...not a big deal. Pump germy water into plants and the germs just die. Pump germy water into toilets and it just doesn't matter. The only place it matters is sinks really since you're just replacing the dupe's surface germs with more surface germs.
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Jun 30, 2018 19:36
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This is the furthest I've gotten so far. The other times I've tried playing I lost interest way earlier. I finally finished moving power crap around so I have no more overloads. The hydrogen power at the top always runs if it has power, the coal only kicks in if the battery drops to 20%. Water to polluted and sieving back to clean is done. Loads of space cleared. What should I tackle next? Farming? Ranching? 
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Jul 2, 2018 01:08
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I would do bathrooms and set up a greenhouse for your blossoms.
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Jul 2, 2018 01:12
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Lorini posted:I would do bathrooms and set up a greenhouse for your blossoms. Yeah I was looking at that next since I have everything ready for them. Lavetories, showers (or are they useless in this version?) and sinks - it's just a case of picking a spot and plumbing into the existing pipeworks. The greenhouse is almost ready to go up the top.
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Jul 2, 2018 02:28
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Ratzap posted:Yeah I was looking at that next since I have everything ready for them. Lavetories, showers (or are they useless in this version?) and sinks - it's just a case of picking a spot and plumbing into the existing pipeworks. The greenhouse is almost ready to go up the top. Bathroom should be the first room you build just because of the free stress relief bonuses from it.
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Jul 2, 2018 02:32
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Amateur tip: the printer is a light source, so you can plant two bristle blossoms on either side without building or powering any lights. Me, I would probably do the bathrooms, bust into some slime if nearby to uncover more map and get some gold and mushrooms, and probably start setting up a hatch ranch because you are going to run out of coal probably sooner rather than later. But I’m probably overly paranoid about spending coal, copper, and (until recently) water. Small detail about the pic — check your heat map, that compost pile produces hot dirt now. Might want to move it away somewhere.
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Jul 2, 2018 11:10
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Ratzap posted:This is the furthest I've gotten so far. The other times I've tried playing I lost interest way earlier. I finally finished moving power crap around so I have no more overloads. The hydrogen power at the top always runs if it has power, the coal only kicks in if the battery drops to 20%. Water to polluted and sieving back to clean is done. Loads of space cleared. Light is only needed for bristle blossoms. You can deconstruct all the other lights - they don't do anything except generate heat for no reason.
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Jul 2, 2018 13:25
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WithoutTheFezOn posted:Amateur tip: the printer is a light source, so you can plant two bristle blossoms on either side without building or powering any lights.  e. also, if you want maximum efficiency per light, here's something from the oni forums.  e2. after a bit of research, seems airflow tiles don't allow light to pass anymore. here's an airflow-free version, with 13. 
Ambaire fucked around with this message at 13:41 on Jul 2, 2018 |
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Jul 2, 2018 13:32
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enraged_camel posted:Light is only needed for bristle blossoms. You can deconstruct all the other lights - they don't do anything except generate heat for no reason. I thought they helped with dupe stress too? I built a bathroom area and ran into an odd plumbing feature. If you just run a pipe across their outputs, it gets blocked for all but the first. If you run them all up or down to join a common pipe it works as expected. I read something about hatch farming for coal, I may give that a try as I have researched ranching stuff.
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Jul 2, 2018 15:59
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Light gives a decor bonus but with the heat gen that's a pact with Satan if there ever was one. Plenty of briar before you have an artist and no reason to lack paintings and sculptures afterward.
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Jul 2, 2018 16:25
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Can you give us a screenshot of your base in temperature overlay? I suspect things might be getting hot. Secondly, where is the polluted water that you're sieving coming from? If its waste water from your toilets you might have a severe germ problem on your hands.
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Jul 2, 2018 16:34
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Carcer posted:Can you give us a screenshot of your base in temperature overlay? I suspect things might be getting hot.  Yes I'd noticed the right/top right portion of the space was getting warm. I'm researching insulating tiles at the moment. And yes, it's the toilet, sink and everything else polluted water goes into the one sump. My water has germs in it (I looked) but that's probably also due to a spillage while re-jigging bathroom pipes that dropped a few kgs of polluted water into my water tank. I can get chlorine easily if dropping that into the water would help?
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Jul 2, 2018 17:58
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Don't bother with insulating tiles, they are extremely junk. Dig out some abyssalite, every abyssalite block dug out is is 1.25 tiles, and they insulate 10 billion times better than anything else, so you can just make normal tiles out of abyssalite.
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Jul 2, 2018 18:34
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zedprime posted:Light gives a decor bonus but with the heat gen that's a pact with Satan if there ever was one. Plenty of briar before you have an artist and no reason to lack paintings and sculptures afterward. Yeah, you don't need that much decor and you especially don't need decor that generates heat. Bristle itself is rather appealing itself so the farmer(s) handling it are going to enjoy working in there. The only plant that is ugly is mealwood and there's so many better options that you want to drop it ASAP. Just shove your barracks full of decor items and your dupes will be fine stress-wise since they'll spend their entire sleep-cycle being bombarded with decor that exceeds their expectations.
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Jul 2, 2018 19:07
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Truga posted:Don't bother with insulating tiles, they are extremely junk. Dig out some abyssalite, every abyssalite block dug out is is 1.25 tiles, and they insulate 10 billion times better than anything else, so you can just make normal tiles out of abyssalite. Insulated tiles work in concert with low thermal conductivity materials. Normally it takes the log mean of the two thermal conductivities to determine what resultant thermal conductivity is. So abyssalite is good but it's still able to absorb a great deal of heat if it's in contact with something with a really good thermal conductivity. Insulated tiles (and maybe pipes and vents?) use the lower of the two thermal conductivities, making an insulated abyssalite tile a nearly perfect insulator.
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Jul 2, 2018 19:16
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Alkydere posted:Yeah, you don't need that much decor and you especially don't need decor that generates heat. Bristle itself is rather appealing itself so the farmer(s) handling it are going to enjoy working in there. The only plant that is ugly is mealwood and there's so many better options that you want to drop it ASAP.
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Jul 2, 2018 19:34
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1337JiveTurkey posted:Insulated tiles work in concert with low thermal conductivity materials. Normally it takes the log mean of the two thermal conductivities to determine what resultant thermal conductivity is. So abyssalite is good but it's still able to absorb a great deal of heat if it's in contact with something with a really good thermal conductivity. Insulated tiles (and maybe pipes and vents?) use the lower of the two thermal conductivities, making an insulated abyssalite tile a nearly perfect insulator. This is correct, although on the ONI forums someone said that regular pipes made of abyssalite are still really, really good, and insulated pipes may be overkill except in scenarios where the pipes carry super hot or super cold liquids. I haven't tested it though. I'm OCD so I go for insulated pipes whenever insulation is needed.
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Jul 2, 2018 19:35
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1337JiveTurkey posted:Insulated tiles work in concert with low thermal conductivity materials. Normally it takes the log mean of the two thermal conductivities to determine what resultant thermal conductivity is. So abyssalite is good but it's still able to absorb a great deal of heat if it's in contact with something with a really good thermal conductivity. Insulated tiles (and maybe pipes and vents?) use the lower of the two thermal conductivities, making an insulated abyssalite tile a nearly perfect insulator. You can make an actual perfect insulator by using vacuum. Simple but tedious way requires building 3 layers 1 tile at a time, and deconstructing the middle tile. Fast but expensive way is to dig a tunnel and then seal it and pump out all the air. Also the best way I've found for dealing with compost: don't. Composting turns polluted dirt (and rotting biomatter) into boring regular dirt, but this puts it to a much better use:  With a stairstep pattern and a storage compactor full of poo, all of the polluted oxygen gets captured, since gas can only move perpendicularly it has to pass through all 4 deodorizers to exit. So this setup converts ~90% of that polluted dirt mass into oxygen. Which is a lot of oxygen. And food poisoning germs in the air don't do anything except clutter up bio-vision.
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Jul 2, 2018 19:39
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silentsnack posted:You can make an actual perfect insulator by using vacuum. Simple but tedious way requires building 3 layers 1 tile at a time, and deconstructing the middle tile. Fast but expensive way is to dig a tunnel and then seal it and pump out all the air. You don't need all those deodorizers, one is sufficient.
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Jul 2, 2018 19:44
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enraged_camel posted:You don't need all those deodorizers, one is sufficient. 4 is intentional overkill since deodorizers cost nothing to run, but mainly because sometimes a fart gets past the first one if there's too much gas for it to capture in a single tick. e: just having dudes breathe polluted oxygen isn't that bad on its own, but the main reason for going way overboard is because I use the same setup to deal with slime. Since distillation turns half of the slime into polluted water and half into algae, vs 90% directly into O2. Except slimelung clouds are a lot more annoying to have in your base. e2: also I guess it would work for morb farms and infectious polluted oxygen vents. silentsnack fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Jul 2, 2018 |
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Jul 2, 2018 19:48
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