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GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:The whole thing seems so premium for nothing. What a folly. Hbm, really nice vrms, semi custom watercooling with a Nidec fan, led performance indicators..... Well, I mean, AMD hasn't had a competitive premium product since the 290X, it's all just been pretend since then. Cargo-cult GPU design. Surely if we have an 8-phase VRM then the airplanes will start landing at our factory again... there is a whole cottage industry around milking AMD fanboys, everybody knows they get off on the whole 'underdog' thing... except the "value-oriented" ones who want stuff at like 30% off whatever price NVIDIA sets. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 13:26 on Jul 2, 2018 |
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Jul 2, 2018 13:22
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I really wish AMD would make a better effort of promoting FreeSync. If not from a performance/quality perspective then from a price vantage. Just show the GPU+monitor pricing for Nvidia and AMD with same-ish specs side by side, it doesn't have to be more complicated than that.
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Jul 2, 2018 13:26
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Yeah, but if AMD started marketing specific (cheaper) models then NVIDIA could point out that those are all a bunch of broken-rear end junk that flickers and has a bullshit sync range. There are like 6 models that are actually competitive in the entire Freesync range. Let's say, XF270HU, Nixeus EDG, XR341CK, XR382CQK, and CHG90. Everything else is wildly inferior to the NVIDIA range. Even AMD knows their lineup is junk... they can't even do the "FreeSync 2" lineup, they're rebranding it to "FreeSync HDR" after like 2 years because they have a grand total of 2 models in their lineup, and everyone knows what they really need is a "FreeSync Gold" lineup that actually guarantees LFC and non-flickering. Probably can't sell monitors at $150 under NVIDIA if you actually have to make sure they don't flicker though... Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 13:48 on Jul 2, 2018 |
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Jul 2, 2018 13:28
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Wasn't the whole point of FreeSync 2 decent certification? Did they already give up on that?
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Jul 2, 2018 13:34
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Paul MaudDib posted:There are like 6 models that are actually competitive in the entire Freesync range. Let's say, XF270HU, Nixeus EDG, XR341CK, XR382CQK, and CHG90. Everything else is actually inferior to the NVIDIA range. Isn't the Nixeus EDG still the only Freesync monitor that does adaptive overdrive, a feature of literally every G-Sync monitor since day one?
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Jul 2, 2018 13:38
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ufarn posted:Wasn't the whole point of FreeSync 2 decent certification? Did they already give up on that? Actually sort of the opposite - they dropped the bullshit "HDR" requirement (400 nits) and upped it to 600 nits... even for those monitors (in fact, the only FreeSync 2 monitors that exist) that don't actually meet the requirement (yeah). So they've doubled down... FreeSync 2 HDR is gonna be so good that it's gonna take another 3 years to implement! But just you wait! (seriously, please keep waiting, RTG can't take any more hits right now  )But they still don't have a "meets basic requirements, does LFC, doesn't flicker" specification, especially a basic one without HDR, which you would think is like, their bread and butter. The AMD fanbase is like, terminally cheap. You wanna talk about mindshare, a lot of them aren't going to pay more for an AMD product than an NVIDIA product, ever. gently caress adaptive overdrive, there is $150 on the line. edit: and I still don't know what was up with the Samsung monitor (CF791?) they promo'd on the Vega launch... it flickered like crazy, which everyone blamed on the panel, but then AMD released a driver for Vega which fixed it?  So I guess it was just AMD's broken as gently caress drivers that were holding back that/potentially other panels?(inb4 "AMD drivers are great now, for like the last 3 years!") Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 14:03 on Jul 2, 2018 |
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Jul 2, 2018 13:40
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I'm still one a year-old driver for my 270X because they still haven't patched the bug for a niche game called Overwatch.  Driver issues are literally the main reason why I'm gonna ditch AMD GPUs from this point on.
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Jul 2, 2018 14:07
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oh god they never fixed that did they  edit: don't we have a we-forgot smiley Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 14:17 on Jul 2, 2018 |
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Jul 2, 2018 14:12
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They fixed "some of it". It's apparently some hydra of technical debt.
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Jul 2, 2018 14:14
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Hey Paul AMD sounds really terrible you should short their stock and make bank
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Jul 2, 2018 14:23
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Except that for a few months at the beginning of this year, Nvidia was in a mess of driver regressions and fuckups. Also, Nvidia just can't stop making money off of you, they want to harvest every last bit of data and they will lock features like driver-level frame limiters behind a loving login so you haven't install their monitoring software to use it.
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Jul 2, 2018 14:24
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Bloody Antlers posted:Hey Paul AMD sounds really terrible you should short their stock and make bank AMD stock is valued appropriately IMO. I get my kicks there seeing AMD fanboys break their wallets against the $15 mark over and over again, and they cri erytiem. I mean, it's not like it had much lower to go after the Bulldozer era, and it's not like it's really recovered since then. Not like it can go down much further, so why short it? Their lovely software team is priced in at this point. If you want to be honest $AMD does have a positive long-term trajectory, but RTG is not a positive contributor to that. Nor do I see any indication their software team is going to get better  Fortunately, AMD refuses to break their finances out that way (CPU vs GPU), but apart from the semi-custom group, RTG is a massive loving drag on AMD's balance sheet. Good thing Sony wants to bankroll Navi... so they don't have to re-code all their poo poo on a new uarch... which AMD is doing in 2020. RTG is in the same catch-22 as Intel's CPU division. Exit your architectural cul-de-sac or pay the price. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 14:34 on Jul 2, 2018 |
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Jul 2, 2018 14:25
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maybe RTG will do better now that Raja is at Intel
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Jul 2, 2018 14:34
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Bloody Antlers posted:maybe RTG will do better now that Raja is at Intel We can only loving hope. I seriously hope Su riding herd on the Zen team had a positive impact on them (vs Keller's design genius), and that she continues to ride herd on the RTG team (without it affecting Zen2/3 hopefully). Like, I do think Intel has enough money to bang out a worthwhile design regardless of Raja (I've never been convinced on him) but RTG can and must do better, and that's not a guarantee, that's down to management.
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Jul 2, 2018 14:38
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SwissArmyDruid posted:Except that for a few months at the beginning of this year, Nvidia was in a mess of driver regressions and fuckups. This is important to note. When most people who say "AMD's drivers are fine, and have been for several years," say it, they don't mean they're good or even fine by any sane quality standard, they mean that they aren't anymore broken than Nvidia's drivers tend to be. That or the speaker uses some feature in particular that's perma-broken in Nvidia's drivers. (I'm AMD-only until Nvidia catches up to ATI circa-2006 and lets you switch between individual and spanned desktops without forcing you to reconfigure the spanned desktop and bezel compensation from scratch every time)
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Jul 2, 2018 14:39
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Let's just all collectively hope that with Sony bankrolling development of the PS5's GPU, that whatever mainstream desktop product that comes out of it is good, for the sake of competition in the GPU market.
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Jul 2, 2018 14:42
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SwissArmyDruid posted:Except that for a few months at the beginning of this year, Nvidia was in a mess of driver regressions and fuckups. I'm not going to miss having to remember to opt out of ad placement in my Radeon Settings software either. Nvidia being bad doesn't make AMD good, and you can't tell me I would have had a worse experience with an Nvidia GPU than my 270X. (I would probably have flipped such a GPU during the mining boom, but that's another story.) I don't care about the quality of AMD per se, but the gaslighting of AMD pissing on users and telling them it rains is getting on my nerves. I know it's a hard situation to have to promote products that in many respects are worse, but I think of all the Overwatch players who get dropped in competitive games and are upset without knowing why since AMD won't even mention it as a Known Issue. They could either tell people and take the hit or gaslight them into saying everything is fine and performance will improve by 20%, and they chose the former. I don't think you should have to rely on some whisper network of AMD users to find out about all this. E: The whole Adaptive Sync situation is such a mess I'll probably end up just buying a non-*Sync monitor with 1440p144 IPS so I don't have to wait a thousand years to upgrade to something that doesn't cost a bazillion dollars. E2: And 24" is still a rarity, gdi. ufarn fucked around with this message at 14:57 on Jul 2, 2018 |
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Jul 2, 2018 14:45
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Paul MaudDib posted:
I mean, when I bought in at under $2.00 a share, a lot of dummies were saying AMD was a sure bet for bankruptcy. That was Bulldozer era; the stock has only multiplied 7x to ~$15.00 in 3 years, so good point on $AMD not really having much lower it could go, and double good point on it "not really" recovering. 700% ROI is garbage tier gains and proof that AMD is full of nothingburger engineers with no juice in their dried up bholes.
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Jul 2, 2018 14:46
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Theris posted:This is important to note. When most people who say "AMD's drivers are fine, and have been for several years," say it, they don't mean they're good or even fine by any sane quality standard, they mean that they aren't anymore broken than Nvidia's drivers tend to be. That or the speaker uses some feature in particular that's perma-broken in Nvidia's drivers. (I'm AMD-only until Nvidia catches up to ATI circa-2006 and lets you switch between individual and spanned desktops without forcing you to reconfigure the spanned desktop and bezel compensation from scratch every time) On the positive, AMD went from an unusable joke on linux to beating out nvidia due to open sourcing their drivers there.
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Jul 2, 2018 14:51
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Bloody Antlers posted:I mean, when I bought in at under $2.00 a share, a lot of dummies were saying AMD was a sure bet for bankruptcy. That was Bulldozer era; the stock has only multiplied 7x to ~$15.00 in 3 years, so good point on $AMD not really having much lower it could go, and double good point on it "not really" recovering. 700% ROI is garbage tier gains and proof that AMD is full of nothingburger engineers with no juice in their dried up bholes. If you bought in at $2 and rode it all the way up to $15, congrats, you steely-eyed missile man. That's like riding Bitcoin all the way from $2 to $30. Sure, with survivor bias that sounds like a pretty good bet, but it could have gone pretty poorly for you, and you could very easily have sold your penny stock earlier. The 40% IPC gains over Bulldozer weren't a guarantee, and AMD was very much betting the farm on that. If Zen had been even mediocre instead of pretty good, AMD would be in a lot different place right now. Even still, they are not in a fantastic place. Zen is good, but their semi-custom business rides (in the long term) on acceptable graphics performance as well as acceptable CPU performance. Intel entering the GPU business is not a great sign for RTG. Navi will hold the line (although not take any ground on NVIDIA) but next-gen will be competing with two products on the market. Hence why AMD is tucking in for Navi and trying to step out for next-gen. Semi-custom is not a guarantee for AMD. It could be Intel+NVIDIA, or Intel+AMD, or otherwise. If RTG continues to gently caress up, things could change. And if you think things can't get any worse in the dGPU market... wait till Intel starts playing. Welcome to the big leagues, you don't have NVIDIA to kick around anymore. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Jul 2, 2018 |
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Jul 2, 2018 14:51
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ufarn posted:
Ah yes, the 'buy something low end in hopes up upgrading to the high end part "soon" but end up using that for many years because the next generation isn't convincing enough (CPUs from 2600K until 8700K, 4K 144Hz HDR monitors, etc) or just won't arrive (new GPUs after Pascal)'. I know it too well but it sure beats waiting forever.
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Jul 2, 2018 15:07
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How many times has intel totally entered the GPU game by now?
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Jul 2, 2018 15:08
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eames posted:Ah yes, the 'buy something low end in hopes up upgrading to the high end part "soon" but end up using that for many years because the next generation isn't convincing enough (CPUs from 2600K until 8700K, 4K 144Hz HDR monitors, etc) or just won't arrive (new GPUs after Pascal)'. I know it too well but it sure beats waiting forever. I'll probably literally get VRR on my TV before my monitor, what a dumb world we live in. Either you upgrade every five years and get some substantial upgrades, or you submit to a ten-year cycle in order for everyone to sort the kinks out and prices to come down. ufarn fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Jul 2, 2018 |
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Jul 2, 2018 15:12
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Khorne posted:Is mouse cursor corruption fixed on AMD's gpu drivers yet? I've been waiting since 2005. I can't find any reports from Vega users so I think they finally fixed it for good. Polaris was affected though so that bug existed for over a decade... the spectre of ATis driver team 
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Jul 2, 2018 16:38
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repiv posted:Polaris was affected though so that bug existed for over a decade... the spectre of ATis driver team
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Jul 2, 2018 16:50
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The cursor thing was present on windows over many manufacturers/drivers (even since before the duopoly) for me. I've never seen it on any other OS though. If nvidia and intel make a workaround for some bullshit microsoft hosed up that's really nice of them, but ultimately it's still microsoft's fault, and good on MS for finally fixing their poo poo I guess?
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Jul 2, 2018 17:06
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Truga posted:The cursor thing was present on windows over many manufacturers/drivers (even since before the duopoly) for me. I've never seen it on any other OS though. wasn't there something like that but for KVM in amd cpus?
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Jul 2, 2018 17:10
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wargames posted:wasn't there something like that but for KVM in amd cpus? Ish. https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/iommu/2017-October/024823.html Khorne posted:Is mouse cursor corruption fixed on AMD's gpu drivers yet? I've been waiting since 2005. What mouse cursor corruption is that? I've been using a AMD card in my CAD machine for.... four years now, and I don't think I've ever encountered that? SwissArmyDruid fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Jul 2, 2018 |
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Jul 2, 2018 17:32
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Khorne posted:Is mouse cursor corruption fixed on AMD's gpu drivers yet? I've been waiting since 2005. repiv posted:I can't find any reports from Vega users so I think they finally fixed it for good. Oh, that's what I keep seeing happening on my 2200G.
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Jul 2, 2018 17:40
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SwissArmyDruid posted:What mouse cursor corruption is that? I've been using a AMD card in my CAD machine for.... four years now, and I don't think I've ever encountered that? I get the messed up cursor occasionally, it's happened in both 7 and 10 over several motherboards and graphics cards (all happen to have been AMD because I didn't like how Nvid handled 3+ monitors). It only happens when there are multiple monitors and only happens on the primary monitor. The mouse cursor ends up looking like a stack of lines and is really odd looking. I assume it's the same issue, I get it every few months it's rare and a reboot seems to fix it. It also seems to happen more often when it's hot in the room. I'll try and get an image of it next time it happens.
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Jul 2, 2018 17:54
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Khorne posted:Is mouse cursor corruption fixed on AMD's gpu drivers yet? I've been waiting since 2005. They EOL'd my last AMD card's drivers (hd6950) before fixing the cursor corruption so 
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Jul 2, 2018 18:51
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Cool I have this to look forward to
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Jul 2, 2018 18:55
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The corrupted cursor bug also has to do with multi-monitor support, I saw it quite often back when I used AMD cards but never on Nvidia, maybe it just triggers more often in AMD's implementation of multi-monitor since they always had that as a big thing in their drivers? Eyefinity I think it's called?
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Jul 2, 2018 19:09
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SwissArmyDruid posted:What mouse cursor corruption is that? I've been using a AMD card in my CAD machine for.... four years now, and I don't think I've ever encountered that? There's a way to fix it without restarting. I think you can just move your cursor to an extreme side of the screen, to the point that it can't be seen, and then move it back into the screen. So it's not that bad I guess. Putting your computer to sleep fixes it too, but that's not ideal for lots of users. Maybe switching users also fixes it? It also doesn't impact AMD CPUs. Just GPUs and probably their iGPUs because it's a driver issue. I'm building AMD in 2019 but will probably just keep my 1070. AVeryLargeRadish posted:The corrupted cursor bug also has to do with multi-monitor support, I saw it quite often back when I used AMD cards but never on Nvidia, maybe it just triggers more often in AMD's implementation of multi-monitor since they always had that as a big thing in their drivers? Eyefinity I think it's called? I think it's fixed in their latest drivers, too. Although looking over reddit, it appears they reintroduced it every few driver updates during 2017. Apparently it happens to some AMD users randomly with no fullscreen app or anything. This guy with an RX480 was complaining about it happening after his system being on for 5 minutes a little under a year ago: https://gfycat.com/ConventionalUnitedBovine It drove me absolutely nuts to the point I swore I wouldn't buy an AMD GPU again until it was fixed. Not because it's super awful in itself, but because it's more of a larger statement on the overall quality of their drivers for productivity. If I'm finally focusing on work and getting things done the last thing I need is to dance with my cursor and then have my idiot brain reset and focus on something else after it gets fixed. Khorne fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Jul 2, 2018 |
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Jul 2, 2018 22:37
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Honestly since going from Intel graphics to AMD graphics on my HTPC there are moments on the desktop where the space around the arrow seems to briefly go corrupt in a flash and then correct itself. This is just sitting on the desktop with no windows open. Given it's purpose the only fullscreen app that machine ever runs is Kodi.
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Jul 2, 2018 23:33
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TheCoach posted:How many times has intel totally entered the GPU game by now? Its been on a 5 year cycle since the late 90s.
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Jul 3, 2018 00:03
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i had an i740, it was pretty good
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Jul 3, 2018 00:18
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GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:Cool I have this to look forward to FWIW I never had any of these mouse problems with my 7870, which I used for something like 4 years (and always with multi-monitor). The one big issue I saw for a while was graphical corruption in firefox, but that was eventually bugfixed by mozilla not AMD so it's debatable. Personally I felt that over the years that I had it, the AMD driver team did really well at removing the last vestiges of "lol ATI drivers" and getting to parity with nvidia. Some areas are actually better at least in terms of UI and feature availability. Nvidia's driver panel is ancient and actively lovely at this point. If AMD ever manages to make hardware that's better than nvidia again I'd happily buy it, because IMO the drivers are relatively even on the pro/con count.
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Jul 3, 2018 01:48
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Cygni posted:i had an i740, it was pretty good I’m still rocking one and yeah, it’s still good enough that I don’t need to run out and replace it yet. Crazy.
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Jul 3, 2018 01:57
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Dadbod Apocalypse posted:I’m still rocking one and yeah, it’s still good enough that I don’t need to run out and replace it yet. Crazy. yeah 8mb of vram is enough for anyone (im talkin about the last intel graphics card dog!!!)
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Jul 3, 2018 02:00
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