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Countblanc posted:are there any systems which would handle a Gotenks-style fusion of player characters particularly well? this is more a curiosity thing than anything, I'm wondering how games handle stuff like that. Battle Century G has rules for combined PC mecha, of a couple different sorts. Basically they act as a sort of backup plan that allows a team that's taken a beating to fuse, gain a new shared HP pool, and keep fighting with most of their capabilities.
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Jul 2, 2018 02:42
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Countblanc posted:are there any systems which would handle a Gotenks-style fusion of player characters particularly well? this is more a curiosity thing than anything, I'm wondering how games handle stuff like that. Fellowship's The Pair playbook involves playing two characters who are significantly stronger when working together. It'd be very easy to play them as two separate people who fuse into one greater one, a la Gotenks or Garnet.
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Jul 2, 2018 02:57
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Meyers-Briggs Testicle posted:I asked a friend if he ever played anything besides 5th edition, he said he played "one of those dnd ripoffs" a while ago  This is happens way too often and is infuriating to run into. kingcom fucked around with this message at 05:47 on Jul 2, 2018 |
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Jul 2, 2018 03:17
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https://twitter.com/jesawyer/status/1013624931446239232
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Jul 2, 2018 05:01
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Remember a key thing about DBZ fusions is that power wise they're total upgrades, but personality wise they tend to be liabilities because they magnify the component persons' traits.
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Jul 2, 2018 05:52
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Remember a key thing about DBZ fusions is that power wise they're total upgrades, but personality wise they tend to be liabilities because they magnify the component persons' traits. Sounds like a hilarious time all around.
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Jul 2, 2018 14:20
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Pollyanna posted:Sounds like a hilarious time all around. Oh my yes. Probably the best thing about the Buu Saga.
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Jul 2, 2018 14:34
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Blockhouse posted:so the dead apostles then Unless that Tsukihime remake ever comes out I will continue to consider it early 2000s 
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Jul 2, 2018 17:49
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i want to play ars magicka so gd bad
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Jul 2, 2018 23:20
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kingcom posted:
It's understandable. Everyone knows D&D, it's almost invariably their introduction to the hobby, and the structure of the game strongly encourages long campaigns. Once you start, there's no obvious reason to look elsewhere, because that's "just what the hobby is." I ran into a similar problem running a game for some tweens and teens who were interested in roleplaying. Dungeons & Dragons 5e was not going to be the best fit for them, and I told them as much at the outset and offered to run something that would better suit them, but they were dead-set on D&D. I'm sloooowly getting them to try other games, but it's taken nearly two years to get to that point, and this is with kids who have all the free time in the world and low attention spans. With adults who have no interest in learning something new, it's easy to default to "there's other stuff, but it's a ripoff of D&D and I don't need to care about it."
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Jul 3, 2018 03:17
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It doesn't help that about half the "other stuff" that's immediately adjacent to D&D are D&D clones of various stripes, while the other half of things that get passing mentions in D&D discussions are just as splatbook-intensive and running on systems that are 20+ years old at this point.
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Jul 3, 2018 03:41
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Nuns with Guns posted:It doesn't help that about half the "other stuff" that's immediately adjacent to D&D are D&D clones of various stripes, while the other half of things that get passing mentions in D&D discussions are just as splatbook-intensive and running on systems that are 20+ years old at this point. I think part of that is intentional, no? Like, trying to capture the massive market by appealing to the DnD masses with nifty taglines "It's like DnD, but with BETTER ROLEPLAYING" or, "Imagine DnD but good!" Easier to sell that than to sell "It's like DnD, but it's sci fi, and it's not using a D20, and instead of attacking hit points, you just do stunts that have verbose outcomes" or whatever else. Too much 'other' just makes people turn off.
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Jul 3, 2018 09:27
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To be fair, I wouldn't immediately scoff at someone considering Shadowrun to be a "D&D knockoff" because, I mean, it's a game where you take your party of elves, dwarves, orcs, wizards, and fighters into (corporate) dungeons to loot the place, get more money, and spend it to get better at looting bigger dungeons. Like I wouldn't seriously try to claim that Shadowrun is literally 1-1 just D&D with the serial numbers filed off but I can easily understand how someone's actual play experience with both games might lead them to think "yeah these are pretty similar."
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Jul 3, 2018 09:30
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Kai Tave posted:To be fair, I wouldn't immediately scoff at someone considering Shadowrun to be a "D&D knockoff" because, I mean, it's a game where you take your party of elves, dwarves, orcs, wizards, and fighters into (corporate) dungeons to loot the place, get more money, and spend it to get better at looting bigger dungeons. Like I wouldn't seriously try to claim that Shadowrun is literally 1-1 just D&D with the serial numbers filed off but I can easily understand how someone's actual play experience with both games might lead them to think "yeah these are pretty similar." It doesn't help things when you get into other games where "I attack thing for x hp damage" isn't the main function of the game, and people are still trying to match up "but what is my sword attack modifier?" or whatever. DnD is learned behaviour which can be hard to break for other people, so for them "oh these 11 D6 are just my D20 for this roll" is just another type of DnD action.
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Jul 3, 2018 09:36
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I think the problem is more in how DnD is synonymous with "pen&paper/tabletop roleplaying" instead of just "DnD", which creates the problem due to how massively it distorts whatever kind of experience one can and might want to have. The problem of course gets exercerbated as those who grew up with DnD and itīs derivatives like Vampire et Al. now are in position to bringt their experience, as flawed and inane as it might have been, to both the big screen as well as the small screen. Not to be misunderstood, Iīm not saying itīs bad that people are more visibly roleplaying and the podcasts are great, and some of those shows are great, but its basically creating what amounts to bad expectations and confers a very different image of what roleplaying as a whole can be. Which is so much more than DnD ever even tried to provide. Itīs like this blast from the past is trying to drag down roleplaying screaming and kicking back into the 70s to hunt for a perceived ideal state of gaming that never even existed in the first place, because it was all poo poo made up along the way... Man, I donīt know either, Iīm just sad.
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Jul 3, 2018 09:39
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"I'm not saying it's bad just that D&D being popular makes me sad" y'all are weird about D&D
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Jul 3, 2018 09:56
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Blockhouse posted:"I'm not saying it's bad just that D&D being popular makes me sad" If D&D was good it wouldn't be an issue.
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Jul 3, 2018 10:00
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I think there's a vast gulf between "I don't like this thing" and "I don't like this thing and no one should like it because people liking it is actively hampering my enjoyment of this hobby"
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Jul 3, 2018 10:02
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Blockhouse posted:I think there's a vast gulf between "I don't like this thing" and "I don't like this thing and no one should like it because people liking it is actively hampering my enjoyment of this hobby" Yeah but 'Hey I wanna play this game-' "can we not just keep playing DnD until the day we loving die?" '....I guess.'
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Jul 3, 2018 10:07
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Blockhouse posted:"I'm not saying it's bad just that D&D being popular makes me sad" Come on dude, it's really not that fuckin hard to figure out that the sorts of people who are going to be into RPGs enough to post about them on Something Awful Dot Com are probably the sorts of people who'd enjoy it if D&D wasn't considered the go-to game for most groups, organized play events, and the source of numerous "all new original games" which are just D&D But Better because poo poo gets old after a while. Back before designer boardgaming really took off and blossomed big, I remember a period where if someone said "hey do you want to play boardgames?" what that meant was "do you want to play Settlers of Catan or Risk?" Maybe, maybe someone had heard of Carcassonne, but otherwise that was about it and it was, y'know, all right for what it was at the time but boy howdy I guarantee you that if all the boardgame nights and meetups I've gone to were nothing but people wanting to play Settlers and Risk (or Munchkin, say) over and over and over again, I'd consider complaining about it on a dead comedy forum from time to time too. I've played enough Settlers to last me a lifetime, I'm good there.
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Jul 3, 2018 10:07
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Blockhouse posted:"I'm not saying it's bad just that D&D being popular makes me sad" Like I said, DNDPTSD. Forces you to make weird cheese metaphors and stuff.
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Jul 3, 2018 10:10
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Kai Tave posted:Come on dude, it's really not that fuckin hard to figure out that the sorts of people who are going to be into RPGs enough to post about them on Something Awful Dot Com are probably the sorts of people who'd enjoy it if D&D wasn't considered the go-to game for most groups, organized play events, and the source of numerous "all new original games" which are just D&D But Better because poo poo gets old after a while. Back before designer boardgaming really took off and blossomed big, I remember a period where if someone said "hey do you want to play boardgames?" what that meant was "do you want to play Settlers of Catan or Risk?" Maybe, maybe someone had heard of Carcassonne, but otherwise that was about it and it was, y'know, all right for what it was at the time but boy howdy I guarantee you that if all the boardgame nights and meetups I've gone to were nothing but people wanting to play Settlers and Risk (or Munchkin, say) over and over and over again, I'd consider complaining about it on a dead comedy forum from time to time too. I've played enough Settlers to last me a lifetime, I'm good there. Okay but you're posting on the internet. How many people on this dead comedy forum are running non-D&D games? How about roll20? How bout all the other ways to find a pick up game of whatever you're into? The resources are there and the games are there. unless playing online is a complete dealbreaker in which case! I dunno! I''ve never had a problem getting people together online for whatever dumb bullshit I want to run. Sure gaming with strangers online is a dice roll but the same goes for in person.
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Jul 3, 2018 10:20
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Lurdiak posted:If D&D was good it wouldn't be an issue. It is good, or at least most of the editions that aren't 3rd or 5th that is
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Jul 3, 2018 10:22
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Blockhouse posted:"I don't like this thing and no one should like it because people liking it is actively hampering my enjoyment of this hobby"
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Jul 3, 2018 10:29
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fool_of_sound posted:Like I said, DNDPTSD. Forces you to make weird cheese metaphors and stuff.
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Jul 3, 2018 10:54
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Spiteski posted:I think part of that is intentional, no? Like, trying to capture the massive market by appealing to the DnD masses with nifty taglines "It's like DnD, but with BETTER ROLEPLAYING" or, "Imagine DnD but good!" It's intentional, yes. The ubiquity of D&D means you're inevitably going compare every other pen and paper rpg to it. And then there's a pretty large slice of D&D players that think if they put the time into formatting their houserules into a book, it'll sell like gangbusters and maybe even unseat D&D itself! Blockhouse posted:Okay but you're posting on the internet. How many people on this dead comedy forum are running non-D&D games? How about roll20? How bout all the other ways to find a pick up game of whatever you're into? The resources are there and the games are there. unless playing online is a complete dealbreaker in which case! I dunno! Regarding roll20, they post quarterly stats on who is reporting to run/play different kinds games. I think this is their most recent one? http://blog.roll20.net/post/174833007355/the-orr-group-industry-report-q1-2018 What they show is people are overwhelmingly playing D&D 5e, D&D 3.5e, or Pathfinder. They'll also have small spikes when they feature certain games for their master series of actual-plays. It's possible to get other games going, certainly, but getting internet strangers to jump in does get harder the further from D&D you move. I don't think it's wrong or bad for people to like D&D or any derived game. I can see how it being a dominant force would teach particular gaming habits or behaviors that make it hard for tabletop rpgs to grow beyond dungeon crawling adventures, but a lot of recent indie games have become influential enough that I think it's much less of a concern now than it was 5 or 10 years ago.
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Jul 3, 2018 12:53
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Blockhouse posted:"I don't like this thing and no one should like it because people liking it is actively hampering my enjoyment of this hobby" The issue isn't that nobody should like D&D - It's that better games wither in its shade while it coasts on brand-recognition momentum. Which is actually hampering the hobby as a whole, yes.
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Jul 3, 2018 12:56
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D&D is the Monopoly of RPG's, the face of the industry and the wall that tells people "you shall go no further, this is as good as it gets."
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Jul 3, 2018 13:05
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It's Monopoly but without Monopoly's justification for why it sucks. 
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Jul 3, 2018 13:12
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I was thinking more World of Warcraft, but that works too.
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Jul 3, 2018 13:15
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moths posted:The issue isn't that nobody should like D&D - It's that better games wither in its shade while it coasts on brand-recognition momentum. I guess my question then is: is it? In like an actual provable way not based on anecdotal evidence?
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Jul 3, 2018 13:16
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remusclaw posted:D&D is the Monopoly of RPG's, the face of the industry and the wall that tells people "you shall go no further, this is as good as it gets." 
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Jul 3, 2018 13:52
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Blockhouse posted:I guess my question then is: is it? In like an actual provable way not based on anecdotal evidence? Which part did you want evidence on? The ubiquity of D&D, that it "coasts by" on name recognition, that it's a bad game, that there are better games, that other games are overshadowed by it, or that its ubiquity hampers the hobby? Also what do you consider evidence? Sales figures? I'm wondering because that'll all impact how people respond.
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Jul 3, 2018 13:54
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Yawgmoth posted:And yet look at all the other board games that exist and thrive out there. Almost like production values and advertising are important parts of selling A Thing! it's funny because the people who realize need to pay attention to high-quality production values and marketing are folks like Paizo and Monte Cook, so you do end up with moderately popular RPG alternatives such as ... Numenera and Pathfinder!!!
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Jul 3, 2018 13:59
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Blockhouse posted:I guess my question then is: is it? In like an actual provable way not based on anecdotal evidence? Given how the industry shuns all market research, that's unanswerable. But yes. Looking at the dearth of competitors who survive even two years, D&D can safely claim a stranglehold on RPGs. Their only profitable rival has been Pathfinder, which is still D&D sold under a different brand. It's basically the same problem any third political party faces in a two-party system. You need to achieve a critical level of popularity to be viable, but that's impossible while the status quo remains acceptably mediocre.
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Jul 3, 2018 14:05
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I was thinking more World of Warcraft, but that works too. I mean, I'm no fan of WoW, but Blizz actually sometimes takes input from the player base and makes moves to improve upon their old-as-poo poo base game and implement quality-of-life upgrades. D&D doesn't. Or, when they try, they just get the player base screeching at them until they stop.
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Jul 3, 2018 14:14
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I can't speak to WoW specifically but most of the time when Blizzard listens to their playerbase it's really bad for their games. You can complain about top-down decisions ignoring the democratic will or complain about the democratic will not liking what the minority likes, but complaining about both at once (at least on principle) is an unsolvable problem. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 14:19 on Jul 3, 2018 |
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Jul 3, 2018 14:15
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People that play videogames have no idea what they actually want it's kind of amazing.
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Jul 3, 2018 14:24
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World of Warcraft is better than any competitor except for FF 14 (after the reboot)
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Jul 3, 2018 14:25
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I think the usual retort is that the playerbase can be useful for identifying what they don't like, but you shouldn't really rely on them for how to fix the issue.
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Jul 3, 2018 14:28
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