|
Jeremy Shaw going mental at the Mazda 
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2018 20:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 17:28 |
|
|
god dammit Mazda I want to like you so much but you make it so loving hard
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2018 20:43
|
|
|
Last Mazda dies with 3 minutes to go, lol
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2018 20:43
|
|
|
jfc Legge deserves a full time ride already
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2018 20:51
|
|
|
If she keeps driving like this she's gonna win the championship with a piecemeal season and it's gonna be awesome
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2018 20:57
|
|
|
Well that was a really great race in really oppressive heat. I can't believe Dane Cameron did a triple stint, even early in the day before it started to feel like the surface of the sun It was pretty wild to see the LMP2 cars as the main contenders, other than the #6 Acura every other DPi seemed to struggle with either pace likely from engine temp management (Cadillac), utter engine failure (Nissan), or boneheaded pit lane mistakes possibly from heat stroke (Mazda) GTLM was also awesome, not sure what the problem with the M8s was all of a sudden but the rest were very evenly matched all race long Nice to see Turner win in GTD, grats to Katherine Legge and Alvaro Parente for another awesome drive, I don't know what happened to Wright at the end after they were doing really well for once, and I can't wait to read the postmortem on the Land penalty because that's going to go down as either an epic petulant meltdown over their own fuckup or an epic bad call by the stewards if they actually did make it into the pits before they closed
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2018 00:25
|
|
|
Best meltdown was Jordan Taylor (because he's the best at everything) making a good point that it was poo poo racing for DPi/P2. It's not exciting seeing the P2 car win when you know that it's only because the DPis have been neutered and now can't even push the car due to a fuel limitation. It's a loving joke. GTLM was great. Ford won, Corvette wasn't making GBS threads the bed, gently caress Porsche, and BMWs sperm whale of an ugly loving BTCC car in sports car drag didn't get gifted another race.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2018 01:09
|
|
|
dpi doesnt have fuel use limits also cadillac can cry me a loving river about BoP
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2018 01:43
|
|
|
That's what you get when you go insane on your damper development in a box class, you lose power. You've optimized your car for other circuits and the P2s are better at a high speed, smooth track like the Glen. Seems pretty balanced to me.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2018 04:36
|
|
|
CactusWeasle posted:I think Land might be in trouble Understatement of the year
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2018 05:24
|
|
|
Cygni posted:dpi doesnt have fuel use limits They removed 2L of fuel for WGI, and the Caddy now holds 13L less fuel while weighing 25kg more. My bad, I was posting in a hurry and used the wrong term. That's horseshit. In a top class you don't get punished for building the better car, and pushed forcibly down to a level of a car that can't compete. Every single DPi driver is bitching about how bad the cars are to drive this year with how nerfed they are. Make Prototype Great Again goddammit
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2018 12:09
|
|
|
iwentdoodie posted:They removed 2L of fuel for WGI, and the Caddy now holds 13L less fuel while weighing 25kg more. My bad, I was posting in a hurry and used the wrong term. I have never spoken to a race car driver who didn’t think their car could use more power. Hell, I got to spend a few hours in the Mazda DPi sim last week and even I thought it needed more power.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2018 14:26
|
|
|
not a spec class but actually a spec class
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2018 18:17
|
|
|
Proud Christian Mom posted:not a spec class but actually a spec class Which is why its working, honestly. It's champagne taste for PBR costs, and thats what the manufacturers are willing to spend. If anything, i think we see MORE cost controls moving forward, not less. Speaking of that, Hyundai is the latest builder looking at DPi, which would be only their 2nd big-leagues motorsports entry in the companies history. Stallings also mentions that there is ANOTHER factory sniffing around, which could be those never ending Mercedes rumors. https://racer.com/2018/07/03/jdc-miller-stallings-pondering-potential-hyundai-dpi-program/
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2018 23:32
|
|
|
DPi: Da loving best P i
|
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2018 00:03
|
|
|
Cygni posted:Which is why its working, honestly. It's champagne taste for PBR costs, and thats what the manufacturers are willing to spend. If anything, i think we see MORE cost controls moving forward, not less. Right. I have used my soapbox to shout about how good the hybrid P1 class was at length, and for a few short seasons we got some amazing cars and amazing racing. But that’s all we got because it’s too expensive. The problem with having a series about unfettered technical development is it always turns into an arms race. One team will find a way to spend more than anyone else. And one solution usually proves more effective than all the others; we saw this with flywheels/capacitors/batteries. If you’re Audi or Porsche and you really want (or need) to win Le Mans a few more times, that’s probably ok. But every other OEM right now looks at those costs and says gently caress no, it’s way too expensive. Whereas they are coming and racing in IMSA, and the racing is good. Plus, And the big spender has what it needs from P1, it goes and does something else instead. From the sounds of it, the plan is still to see how the ACO’s hypercar idea shakes out. But to keep the costs down things like hybrid systems might be standardized as opposed to an R&D sink. People keep saying 1990s-era GT1 is the goal, and low-volume manufacturers would be eligible.
|
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2018 14:37
|
|
|
drgitlin posted:Right. I have used my soapbox to shout about how good the hybrid P1 class was at length, and for a few short seasons we got some amazing cars and amazing racing. But that’s all we got because it’s too expensive. The problem with having a series about unfettered technical development is it always turns into an arms race. One team will find a way to spend more than anyone else. And one solution usually proves more effective than all the others; we saw this with flywheels/capacitors/batteries. If you’re Audi or Porsche and you really want (or need) to win Le Mans a few more times, that’s probably ok. But every other OEM right now looks at those costs and says gently caress no, it’s way too expensive. It's going to happen in IMSA as well. "Let's lure in manufacturers with low costs and virtual spec racing" is the story of Supertouring, WTCC (S2000 version), and WRC (World Rally Car version). Manufacturers get in, bitching starts, politicking starts, arms race starts. WTCC was the absolute worst at this. At some point it seemed like every race was a SEAT 1-2-3-4, BMW 1-2-3-4, or Chevy 1-2-3-4 based on who had made the best BOP case to the organizers that weekend.
|
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2018 14:40
|
|
|
Feels Villeneuve posted:It's going to happen in IMSA as well. "Let's lure in manufacturers with low costs and virtual spec racing" is the story of Supertouring, WTCC (S2000 version), and WRC (World Rally Car version). Manufacturers get in, bitching starts, politicking starts, arms race starts. It may very well but give IMSA credit: they've done a great job so far on BoP in pretty much every class. There's outstanding parity and while you've had some political bullshit (Jens Marquardt convincing IMSA that the M8 needed repeated help until it became too good) they've done a good job keeping everyone equally happy/unhappy. If Hyundai or anyone else joins up- and I really hope they do- there's no reason yet to assume that it's going to go full FIA and turn into an infuriating-to-behold circus in the short term.
|
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2018 14:57
|
|
|
BOP shouldn't be entirely about parity, there's a balance between that and turning a season into a farce, or a lottery (I'm thinking WTCC here which looked exciting if you saw the list of race winners, and then you watched it and every race was dominated by whichever manufacturer's turn it was)
|
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2018 15:08
|
|
|
drgitlin posted:People keep saying 1990s-era GT1 is the goal *Smart, beautiful, and correct people
|
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2018 17:26
|
|
|
drgitlin posted:I have never spoken to a race car driver who didn’t think their car could use more power. Hell, I got to spend a few hours in the Mazda DPi sim last week and even I thought it needed more power. Even IMSA agreed, it seems, that they needed a bit more and also added fuel. And the Mazda does desperately need more power, but really it just needs a new power plant altogether as well as electrical engineers not sourced from Lucas. And the BMW got nerfed a bit finally as well, because gently caress that car.
|
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2018 20:34
|
|
|
drgitlin posted:Right. I have used my soapbox to shout about how good the hybrid P1 class was at length, and for a few short seasons we got some amazing cars and amazing racing. But that’s all we got because it’s too expensive. The problem with having a series about unfettered technical development is it always turns into an arms race. One team will find a way to spend more than anyone else. And one solution usually proves more effective than all the others; we saw this with flywheels/capacitors/batteries. If you’re Audi or Porsche and you really want (or need) to win Le Mans a few more times, that’s probably ok. But every other OEM right now looks at those costs and says gently caress no, it’s way too expensive. I feel like at minimum Audi would still be in P1, costs be damned, if not for Dieselgate. And that's as much "we need this loose $200 mil" as it was "the block is too hot, y'all can't go race diesels right now." And I remember reporting at the time stating that VAG was okay with two brands at Le Mans because of the engine differentiation -- and that if Porsche left, Audi would change to gasoline again and carry on. The others all sound like they have different politics and goals with the proposed new Prototype formula. McLaren sounds like it has an internal tug-of-war; Aston want to get involved, but at a budget; Ford sound like they want to leverage one car for two championships as they do now in GTE; Corvette may be trying to get their Chinese GM compatriots a taste of big racing to help budget the WEC adventures (either continuing in GTE or moving to a new prototype). Peugeot probably right there with Aston on "bang for the buck" value. Toyota will stay no matter what. And I bet the next next rules, if they allow for fuel cells or other technology, would drag in BMW and possibly Mercedes-Benz. The LMP1-H era was amazing, especially 2015 with ten factory cars at Le Mans and three different ways to solve the hybrid puzzle (plus the enigma that was Nissan). That was the high mark from now until probably 1998-99, and from then back to...1990-1991? I think the biggest key for a new Prototype class is having at least one manufacturer (be it Porsche ala the 956/962, or Ginetta or somebody else) take on the role of not only providing 2-3 factory cars, but also building a mass-production model for privateers. Whether that then gets adapted on the cheap into TVRs and Aston Martins and other brands' models, or just raced ala the fleet of private Porsches in Group C, they need at least one brand that is dedicated to stacking them high and selling at market rate. That was the big secret to Group C, that's what held back the GT1 days to an extent (though the McLaren F1 came close to that ideal), that's one of the big points that I think many fans want to see with a new formula -- because it's the best way to attract and keep a high car-count.
|
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2018 23:26
|
|
|
harperdc posted:I feel like at minimum Audi would still be in P1, costs be damned, if not for Dieselgate. And that's as much "we need this loose $200 mil" as it was "the block is too hot, y'all can't go race diesels right now." And I remember reporting at the time stating that VAG was okay with two brands at Le Mans because of the engine differentiation -- and that if Porsche left, Audi would change to gasoline again and carry on. Not sure about Audi necessarily, but VAG would've probably stayed at least to the end of these regulations if it hadn't been Audi and Porsche both getting nailed for emissions cheating. Porsche got done less than a month before they dropped and the rumours got a lot louder then too. harperdc posted:The others all sound like they have different politics and goals with the proposed new Prototype formula. McLaren sounds like it has an internal tug-of-war; Aston want to get involved, but at a budget; Ford sound like they want to leverage one car for two championships as they do now in GTE; Corvette may be trying to get their Chinese GM compatriots a taste of big racing to help budget the WEC adventures (either continuing in GTE or moving to a new prototype). Peugeot probably right there with Aston on "bang for the buck" value. Toyota will stay no matter what. And I bet the next next rules, if they allow for fuel cells or other technology, would drag in BMW and possibly Mercedes-Benz. I have nfi what Peugeot is trying to do or be. They got eviscerated by the GFC and they're just a lumbering hulk of what they have been in the past. They seem to be healthy again, but it's hard to tell if they are actually healthy or if they've gone and over-leveraged themselves again. McLaren just want more cheap racing so they can distract everyone from the absolute garbage fire that is their F1 program atm. Aston just want more racing so they can pretend they're gonna be the next Ferrari (they're not), Ford just want some more racing so they can pretend they're going back to their glory days (they're not). I don't think BMW is that fussed about fuel cells, they're more focused on showcasing their green tech via Formula E. Merc are spending somewhere in the vicinity of $750 million on their F1 program alone, and while they make money on that, it's probably a hard sell to convince their shareholders to pump out another $50mil on a racing series Ferrari is not in. I still believe that Porsche did the 919Evo to keep a portion of their staff operating under their auspices (reminder: the 919 was a complete in house job) in order to rejoin these new regs as the head of the field. They were in the reg meetings, but I think they were "observing". I don't think Ferrari gives a poo poo. harperdc posted:The LMP1-H era was amazing, especially 2015 with ten factory cars at Le Mans and three different ways to solve the hybrid puzzle (plus the enigma that was Nissan). That was the high mark from now until probably 1998-99, and from then back to...1990-1991? It's worth reminding that in 2015 the LMP1HYs were within like 5 seconds a lap of an F1 car at Spa. For like a 3rd the price, and twice the distance. It was a brief, bursting age that promised to lead onto better things but was killed by too much cost for too little exposure. harperdc posted:I think the biggest key for a new Prototype class is having at least one manufacturer (be it Porsche ala the 956/962, or Ginetta or somebody else) take on the role of not only providing 2-3 factory cars, but also building a mass-production model for privateers. Whether that then gets adapted on the cheap into TVRs and Aston Martins and other brands' models, or just raced ala the fleet of private Porsches in Group C, they need at least one brand that is dedicated to stacking them high and selling at market rate. That was the big secret to Group C, that's what held back the GT1 days to an extent (though the McLaren F1 came close to that ideal), that's one of the big points that I think many fans want to see with a new formula -- because it's the best way to attract and keep a high car-count. Yeah, I think it's vital that the cars be cheap enough that they can be sold to privateers for reasonable costs. The F1-style "we'll give you an engine if you do the rest" could work, esp if it was a "this engine+drivetrain will fit in this 3rd party chassis". Like let's pretend 920 (or whatever Porsche call their next car, you know they'll be back some time next decade to win Le Mans a few times and gently caress off) drivetrain and Ginetta shell. I like factory racing, and I feel it contributes to a much higher standard, but the reality is that it's also extremely fractious and prone to imploding over things that have almost nothing to do with the racing series or its regulations. Hell, Peugeot pulled out because there was no way it could afford to keep it's LMP1 program going if Hybrid power was a thing, Audi pulled out because of emissions cheating scandals that had nothing to do with their racing program and Porsche pulled out... because of emissions cheating scandals that had nothing to do with their racing program.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 01:17
|
|
|
We need the occasional P1 hybrid to keep things mechanically interesting. There's literally no shortage of BoP'd, spec series around
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 04:11
|
|
|
iwentdoodie posted:Even IMSA agreed, it seems, that they needed a bit more and also added fuel. RT24P doesn't have any shortage of power compared to the rest of the DPi field really, it's proven itself quick at some tracks and could have won this year if they hadn't stumbled into reliability problems (Sebring) or just garbage luck with being held up in traffic (Mid-Ohio). They might've even been on the podium with the #55 at Watkins Glen if they didn't have the misfortune of planning a fuel stop on a lap with closed pits for a FCY late in the race, forcing them to do an emergency service and come back in again, and then screwing that up too by exceeding the pit lane speed limit and having to do another drive through. You're completely right otherwise though about the electrics and I think the maximum potential of the AER 2.0T is "serviceable", which is a lot more than it seemed to be last year but probably not enough in the long term either
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 04:17
|
|
|
Schlesische posted:Not sure about Audi necessarily, but VAG would've probably stayed at least to the end of these regulations if it hadn't been Audi and Porsche both getting nailed for emissions cheating. Again, that’s just my memory of some reporting at the time, combined with what can be heard about Audi even now. I think Audi see Le Mans as part of their modern identity. Schlesische posted:I don't think BMW is that fussed about fuel cells, they're more focused on showcasing their green tech via Formula E. BMW is perpetually linked to Garage 56 and hydrogen fuel cell technology. Schlesische posted:Merc are spending somewhere in the vicinity of $750 million on their F1 program alone, and while they make money on that, it's probably a hard sell to convince their shareholders to pump out another $50mil on a racing series Ferrari is not in. Mercedes are moving fast to act on alternative fuel sources in production cars and in racing. Along with BMW, I don’t see what they do in Formula E as too major a step. Le Mans would be a bigger deal. I’m not sure Mercedes want to, but I think they’d look and listen. Schlesische posted:I still believe that Porsche did the 919Evo to keep a portion of their staff operating under their auspices (reminder: the 919 was a complete in house job) in order to rejoin these new regs as the head of the field. They were in the reg meetings, but I think they were "observing". Not unreasonable thought, but I wonder if that staff would be VAG or Porsche specific. I still believe Audi coming back to Le Mans before Porsche would. Schlesische posted:It's worth reminding that in 2015 the LMP1HYs were within like 5 seconds a lap of an F1 car at Spa. For like a 3rd the price, and twice the distance. This generation has been insane in the best way possible. I’m glad it didn’t collapse for the Super Season, but it still has a road to climb. Schlesische posted:Hell, Peugeot pulled out because there was no way it could afford to keep it's LMP1 program going if Hybrid power was a thing, Audi pulled out because of emissions cheating scandals that had nothing to do with their racing program and Porsche pulled out... because of emissions cheating scandals that had nothing to do with their racing program. I think - in a hypothetical world without Dieselgate - Porsche would’ve left after 2018, possibly 2019. And that Audi would’ve stayed in prototype racing, along with Toyota. Porsche just need a prototype program every so often to remind people they still got it; Audi seemed much more committed.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 05:55
|
|
|
Schlesische posted:Not sure about Audi necessarily, but VAG would've probably stayed at least to the end of these Peugeot pulled out because in 2008 it was up poo poo creek financially and closing factories and shedding workers, and the optics of doing that and still spending €100 million on a racing program was bad.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 11:33
|
|
|
drgitlin posted:Peugeot pulled out because in 2008 it was up poo poo creek financially and closing factories and shedding workers, and the optics of doing that and still spending €100 million on a racing program was bad. Almost. They pulled out after 2011 when they were on the verge of selling a healthy chunk to a GM that doesn't view that level of investment in motorsports as viable. They had completed a shakedown run of the hybrid diesel, this is a link to a youtube video showing it running at Estoril in 2011 (yes, Peugeot managed to make an LMP1HY that magically sounds like even more of a school bus than the R18s).
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 12:28
|
|
|
an oddly awful oud posted:RT24P doesn't have any shortage of power compared to the rest of the DPi field really, it's proven itself quick at some tracks and could have won this year if they hadn't stumbled into reliability problems (Sebring) or just garbage luck with being held up in traffic (Mid-Ohio). They might've even been on the podium with the #55 at Watkins Glen if they didn't have the misfortune of planning a fuel stop on a lap with closed pits for a FCY late in the race, forcing them to do an emergency service and come back in again, and then screwing that up too by exceeding the pit lane speed limit and having to do another drive through. You're completely right otherwise though about the electrics and I think the maximum potential of the AER 2.0T is "serviceable", which is a lot more than it seemed to be last year but probably not enough in the long term either Yeah, you're right. It just seems so down because its unreliable, I guess. That and in person when I've seen it, it just doesn't pass the eye test of being as fast. It's an Achilles heel that they require it to be so closely based on a production engine and none of their current offerings have anything approaching a good, top end racing powerplant. It sucks because I really want to support Mazda, but goddamn. Not even Joest can help them. All that said, goddamn Daytona and Sebring need to hurry up. Between camping for those 2 races, and the WoO nationals in Volusia, the first 3 months of the year in central/south FL are amazing as a race fan. And with the addition of a race for Sebring and getting to see the P1s eat the bumps it's only going to get better.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 13:24
|
|
|
Some Miata stuff found on Jalopnik today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZmsb-Q8EnU https://jalopnik.com/spec-miata-and-tow-truck-collide-in-the-middle-of-a-rac-1827314179  I'm amazed this was at Sonoma and not Vila Real
Basticle fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Jul 5, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 16:28
|
|
|
Schlesische posted:Almost. god that is a sexy car
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 16:49
|
|
|
iwentdoodie posted:Yeah, you're right. It just seems so down because its unreliable, I guess. That and in person when I've seen it, it just doesn't pass the eye test of being as fast. It's an Achilles heel that they require it to be so closely based on a production engine and none of their current offerings have anything approaching a good, top end racing powerplant. As a whole I really don't think Mazda's program is that bad and I think Joest deserves credit for getting this much out of a horrible albatross of a car that they had no part in originally developing. I've heard people rag on the whole program because they're last in the manufacturer points, they're actually statistically worse off than last year, etc. but you really can't compare last year to this. Everything is completely haywire this year with the base level of competition increasing so much. If they could just deal with the persistent reliability problems that keep taking one of the cars out of contention almost every race, they would be able to split strategies more often and wouldn't have all-or-nothing stakes on things like trying to get the #77 to the checkered at Belle Isle on one pit stop.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2018 01:24
|
|
|
The Mazda would be much much much better if it wasn’t based off the Riley-Multimatic. If it was based around any of the other three chassis, even as the Oreca stomps everyone in the WEC, they would be doing a lot better with Joest now.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2018 11:03
|
|
|
Schlesische posted:Almost. gently caress, no idea why I wrote 2008 when it was 2011 it all went wrong. They did of course withdraw in January 2012.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2018 11:23
|
|
|
harperdc posted:Again, that’s just my memory of some reporting at the time, combined with what can be heard about Audi even now. I think Audi see Le Mans as part of their modern identity. Although if that were the case why no effort to get into GTE?
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2018 11:35
|
|
|
Dudley posted:Although if that were the case why no effort to get into GTE? The caveat that VAG reportedly had was that two teams in P1 with gasoline and diesel was okay, but two with petrol engines would not have been. (Without Dieselgate, I’d imagine Audi would still be involved and using some kind of petrol engine by now). I would imagine the same goes for GTE, possibly extra given it’s Porsche and The 911 in factory racing, GT3 being customer (sometimes “customer”) racing instead. Audi in prototypes, Porsche in GTE is a good balance though, right?
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2018 15:09
|
|
|
Dudley posted:Although if that were the case why no effort to get into GTE? Audi doesn't need GTE. They do okay enough in GT3 (Lambos in IMSA count towards this as far as I care), their DTM program does well for itself and only the diehards really care about the bottom of the ticket races.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2018 15:17
|
|
|
VW put up a 'copter cam of the I.D. R Pikes Peak run. Still no full-length onboard, unfortunately.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2018 16:50
|
|
|
Come on, ye cock teases 
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2018 21:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 17:28 |
|
|
Core ORECA fastest in both sessions at Mosport. The Performance Tech Oreca crashed again and killed the car, so they are done for the weekend. Helio also crashed pretty hard.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2018 22:46
|
|