|
Poil posted:Sweet, I'm looking forward to the trumpeting from the deep. here you go my dude
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2018 23:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 05:56 |
|
|
Person posting "Stop blaming things on Paradox's DLC policy" followed by a dev posting "Yeah we can't do some optimal changes here because of the DLC policy" causing that poster to then argue with the dev is extremely good.spectralent posted:I have no idea how feasible it is but what about stealing the supply system from HOI for the purposes of determining how reinforcements get to you? That way if the reinforcements are routing through bad ground or overseas, it's a trickle, but if you're just sieging down a border province it's fine. I sort of like this idea, but I think it requires a greater discussion of how manpower works in EU. Is recovery strictly fresh troops, or does it include recovered casualties? If so, what role should attrition play there? Etc. I wouldn't mind an overhaul of this sort of thing, but it's..sort of a can of worms.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 00:01
|
|
|
all units are terracotta soliders brought to life by divine will and manpower is how much clay you have
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 00:06
|
|
|
Beamed posted:Person posting "Stop blaming things on Paradox's DLC policy" followed by a dev posting "Yeah we can't do some optimal changes here because of the DLC policy" causing that poster to then argue with the dev is extremely good. I get that you're amazed that it's possible to have both positive and negative opinions about something and maybe that's made it difficult for you to read properly, but the DLC policy literally wasn't mentioned once in that entire discussion. Koramei fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Jul 5, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 00:12
|
|
|
Groog literally said there are some possible changes they can't make because then people will complain they nerfed stuff to make a dlc mechanic more attractive, didn't he Edit Groogy posted:Could do what I suggested for you to try out but give like supply depots some local reinforce rate bonuses. Then suddenly we nerfed everything to force people to buy CoC. I don't think it's a major or only reason or even much of one, but it was actually mentioned SSJ_naruto_2003 fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Jul 5, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 04:21
|
|
|
Alright so that was admittedly a pretty dumb mistake on my part but his peculiarly condescending comment was still based on completely wrong pretenses so E: anyway, I really dunno about HOI style supply lines. This comes up semi regularly, but even aside from for actual supplies (where it’s completely anachronistic), wouldn’t most armies in this period be taking on more troops from whatever locale they’re in anyway? I guess those’d often be mercenaries, but there weren’t even actual regulars until late in the game so the whole thing doesn’t make much sense from a historical perspective, and even if it did, balancing it so only regulars don’t reinforce would cause all kinds of great new issues that sound pretty needless to introduce. Being able to reinforce halfway across the world with only a moderate penalty is a big issue, but reinforcing behind lines isn’t really that bad I think. Koramei fucked around with this message at 05:31 on Jul 5, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 05:25
|
|
|
Maybe not actual supply lines, but something simple like lower replenishment and/or higher attrition for being more provinces away from home? Like, just simplify it down to a simple distance calculation, using only territory you have access through. So if the ottomans want to traverse all of russia and attack you in the baltic, it's going to cost them.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 06:27
|
|
|
Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Maybe not actual supply lines, but something simple like lower replenishment and/or higher attrition for being more provinces away from home? Like, just simplify it down to a simple distance calculation, using only territory you have access through. So if the ottomans want to traverse all of russia and attack you in the baltic, it's going to cost them. I wouldn't mind something akin to recruitment centers, supply depots, whatever - the further you get from one, the less/no reinforcement you get, so you prioritize capturing large cities or supply centers, denying them to the enemy causes them to take attrition, that sort of thing. I'm a bit nervous about raw distance just because reinforcements to, say, India, shouldn't come as fast as to Bristol. But maybe this is just a lovely idea, it's not far from what's there now.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 06:38
|
|
|
Taking a fort in a lovely terrain hostile territory should be a pain in the rear end and/or resource expensive, it just isn't fun when the resources you're paying with are attention and micromanagement, and attrition feels less impactful because like Groogy said it's effectively invisible until you run out of manpower and look at the ledger to see what killed everyone. Making reinforcement speed more dynamic could be fun though Home territory, army professionalism, high province development, coastal provinces, local trade power, nearby buildings(forts/depots/barracks or whatever), spending mil points, or a 'logistics' adviser could all increase speed. Bad terrain, extreme climate, distance from nearest occupied fort, enemy ideas/bonuses, and events could stack up to bring it down. That way fighting wars on the rear end end of the globe actually requires either preparation If the AI cant figure it out just let it cheat
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 07:12
|
|
|
420 Gank Mid posted:Taking a fort in a lovely terrain hostile territory should be a pain in the rear end and/or resource expensive, it just isn't fun when the resources you're paying with are attention and micromanagement, and attrition feels less impactful because like Groogy said it's effectively invisible until you run out of manpower and look at the ledger to see what killed everyone. Making reinforcement speed more dynamic could be fun though People loving hate AI that plays by different rules though (and I agree that it's bad unless the game specifically tells you that it's happening) But yeah if you want to go down the rabbit hole into crazy fever dream territory an actual logistics system of some kind is what's really needed, rather than just more punishing attrition. At this point I just kind of assumed that's one of the red lines for the EU series.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 08:06
|
|
|
SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:Groog literally said there are some possible changes they can't make because then people will complain they nerfed stuff to make a dlc mechanic more attractive, didn't he My point was not that we can't do it, my point was even if we do change things, people will find whatever they want to prove that they are right. I personally would have said "gently caress it" and slap on that 200% local reinforce rate on supply depot. Groogy fucked around with this message at 08:39 on Jul 5, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 08:36
|
|
|
RabidWeasel posted:People loving hate AI that plays by different rules though (and I agree that it's bad unless the game specifically tells you that it's happening) Do people still complain about lucky nations?
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 08:46
|
|
|
I keep forgetting supply depots exist. Even when my army is sitting in a desert bleeding 5% of 20k+ a month I never remember that I can do something about it.  420 Gank Mid posted:Do people still complain about lucky nations?  (I do realize it's silly to get worked up over since I can just leave the setting off)
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 09:14
|
|
|
I haven't actually played EU4 for a while, but how does reinforcement rate correspond to how far away your army is from your own or an ally's territory at the moment? I think a model where attrition is pretty draining if you're in a province that isn't adjacent to one that you or an ally owns would be a good model, and it would also line up well with the new feature in Dharma where you can buy a coastal province from nations in trade company regions. I think a setup where it's difficult to directly invade another continent and you're forced to establish a beachhead in other ways (obtaining a local ally, establishing a colony, buying a province from a local nation, set up a supply depot) would make for an interesting dynamic. And then in more local conflicts, if you're playing Prussia and you want to capture the Russian capital as part of your war, you need to capture Russian provinces between their capital and your own territory to establish a 'supply line' to give you the reinforcement rate you need to take their capital fort, which then gives the Russian army the opportunity to retake those connecting provinces to stop the siege. I don't remember totally how reinforcement rate and attrition work, though, so the game might already do some of those things at the moment. Maybe that's a dumb idea, I haven't played this game in a little while and my go-to strategy was always just to capture enemy forts first and then while their army is occupied for like, two years retaking those forts, I'd mop up all their other provinces and then swing back around and kill their army before their siege on the fort ended. So I'm just trying to think of how attrition and reinforcement changes could alter that strategy.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 10:53
|
|
|
On attrition, I really like what Meiou is doing, personally, with manpower fully replenishing in 30 rather than 10 years. It makes early wars far more impactful imo, though once you reach a certain pool/army ratio, you'll be able to indefinitely war everyone, anyways, like in vanilla. It feels better than vanilla though, to me.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 14:47
|
|
|
I like the idea of the reinforcement rate tanking if you don't have an actual owned province at a reasonable distance. Make it real easy to take border provinces, but as you step further and further away from your actual owned (not occupied) provinces your regiments drop to some % of the previous reinforcement rate. Make it costly to carpet siege an entire enemy country and give a bit of an advantage to the defender who could actually wear down the invader enough to make them retreat to their own territory for full reinforcements.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 21:15
|
|
|
That's actually already something that happens. If you're in an uncontrolled province without an adjacent controlled one, your base reinforce rate gets halved to 50 men per regiment per month. Of course you also get +10% added on to that per leader maneuver pip, and any other effects that increase reinforce rate, so it's usually not a noticeable thing. Maybe if it was halved AFTER the bonuses...
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 22:56
|
|
|
I haven't played since common sense came out. Am I crazy, or did mercenaries used to use your manpower to reinforce?
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 23:04
|
|
|
No, the whole point of hiring mercenaries is saving on manpower.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 23:06
|
|
|
Fister Roboto posted:Maybe if it was halved AFTER the bonuses... Maneuver is already not as good as the other pips though
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 23:38
|
|
|
Koramei posted:Alright so that was admittedly a pretty dumb mistake on my part but his peculiarly condescending comment was still based on completely wrong pretenses so Yeah; I don't think it works for actual supplies, but I'm assuming the same sort of technology could help calculate how much of a trek it is for guys to get to the front line.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 23:47
|
|
|
Fister Roboto posted:That's actually already something that happens. If you're in an uncontrolled province without an adjacent controlled one, your base reinforce rate gets halved to 50 men per regiment per month. Of course you also get +10% added on to that per leader maneuver pip, and any other effects that increase reinforce rate, so it's usually not a noticeable thing. All these mechanics lol. I guess if it was somehow something noticeable during the game and played into the strategy then that would be good.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2018 00:32
|
|
|
Uh, did they change it so centers of reformation also get the "religious zeal -100% conversion" modifier in addition to the -5% religious center modification? If so, I picked the wrong time to start up an Austria game...
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2018 01:12
|
|
|
Newly-converted provinces have always had that modifier. It'll go away after a few years.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2018 01:33
|
|
|
Also if it’s an OPM you can always circumvent it by forcing religion in a peace.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2018 01:38
|
|
|
If you're quick you can have The Treaty of Westphalia signed before 1550 and the outbreak of leagues which makes it not even matter. Still want to have various holdings dotted around the empire to border as many princes as possible and enforce religious unity to make sure authority growth stays high though.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2018 01:53
|
|
|
Wafflecopper posted:Newly-converted provinces have always had that modifier. It'll go away after a few years. Reman's advice on strangling Luther's heresy in the crib was to seize center-of-reformation provinces as soon as they appear and convert them immediately, because they only get the -5% mod, not the -100% one. His video on that was made in November, so I assume it changed in a recent patch. Edit: Hrm, weird. The second center of reformation just popped and it only have the -5% mod, not the -100. Unfortunately, it's in the country I just conquered to get the first center, which I can't convert for 20+ years because of the -100, and breaking truce would cause a massive coalition. The Little Kielbasa fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Jul 6, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2018 02:36
|
|
|
Oh, maybe it was already converted prior to getting the centre. As far as I'm aware Paradox haven't touched the reformation mechanics in a while
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2018 03:16
|
|
|
Wafflecopper posted:Oh, maybe it was already converted prior to getting the centre. As far as I'm aware Paradox haven't touched the reformation mechanics in a while Chances are it got converted by a center which caused the country to convert which spawned a new center, yeah.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2018 03:27
|
|
|
Ah, that makes sense. This run was going too smoothly until now; it'll probably be more fun this way.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2018 03:43
|
|
|
Yeah I wouldn't be so sure about that: Also, who is that crusade against again? Wafflecopper fucked around with this message at 10:58 on Jul 6, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2018 10:55
|
|
|
I'm coming back to this after having not played for, I dunno, two years or so. How do I not suck poo poo at this? I can navigate the early game well enough, but by the mid 1500s a larger power always decides it's time to stomp the poo poo out of me and my "allies" (some of whom I've been friends with the entire game up to that point) usually say "nah brah" and leave me to receive said stomping all by my lonesome. I've tried several games as Ireland and Oman and the result always seems to be the same. England or the Mamluks get a hair up their rear end, France and the Ottomans tell me "good luck!".
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2018 12:26
|
|
|
one thing is, is getting the poo poo stomped out of you really that bad? sometimes you can get some very lenient peace treaties by just holding out as best you can
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2018 12:30
|
|
|
Communist Walrus posted:I'm coming back to this after having not played for, I dunno, two years or so. How do I not suck poo poo at this? I can navigate the early game well enough, but by the mid 1500s a larger power always decides it's time to stomp the poo poo out of me and my "allies" (some of whom I've been friends with the entire game up to that point) usually say "nah brah" and leave me to receive said stomping all by my lonesome. Are your allies in a war already? Or just got out of an expensive and bloody one? That's usually why they ditch you. It's best have as many allies as you can get as backup. I realise that's not always easy/possible, but it's all you can really do. Wafflecopper fucked around with this message at 13:07 on Jul 6, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2018 13:04
|
|
|
Wafflecopper posted:Are your allies in a war already? Or just got out of an expensive and bloody one? That's usually why they ditch you. It's best have as many allies as you can get as backup. I realise that's not always easy/possible, but it's all you can really do. I assume either of those is the case. In my latest Oman game I've reached a point where the remaining countries on the peninsula won't ally with me for various reasons and the ones opposite me in the Persian Gulf hate my guts, so the best I could do would be to look to Africa. The problem there, I think, is that in the event of war, a lot of those countries wouldn't actually be able to get their troops over to me.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2018 13:35
|
|
|
Communist Walrus posted:I assume either of those is the case. In my latest Oman game I've reached a point where the remaining countries on the peninsula won't ally with me for various reasons and the ones opposite me in the Persian Gulf hate my guts, so the best I could do would be to look to Africa. The problem there, I think, is that in the event of war, a lot of those countries wouldn't actually be able to get their troops over to me. Can you change the relations of anyone nearby? Using improve relations, royal marriages, tactically changing your rivals to match your prospective ally's, removing provinces from your list of "desired" land... These things are often essential to get someone to agree to ally you. There's often not many good choices at default relations otherwise. E: if you hover over the button to form alliance, you'll get a tooltip explaining why they would refuse. See if you can alter any of those circumstances and improve relations to max. Often you can overcome just about any negative reasons unless they have rivaled you. Captain Mediocre fucked around with this message at 13:53 on Jul 6, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2018 13:49
|
|
|
Another fun thing about my game is that I must've messed up the last stage of preventing the shadow kingdom event. I beat the papal states, spit them out as a vassal, ate -2 dip rep for a few years until the truce ran out, released them, and got a -200 from the pope because he apparently loved being my vassal. The result was excommunication, which makes fighting the protestants a huge pain in the rear end.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2018 18:17
|
|
|
you can just return rome from the province screen. i’m not sure if the pope would remember hating you once they come back to life
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2018 18:28
|
|
|
They do not remember, but you have to make sure that you eat the whole pope, can't leave any provinces or else he gets angry about it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2018 18:57
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 05:56 |
|
|
EU4: Make sure you eat the whole pope or else he gets angry about it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2018 19:21
|
|