|
some people should die fort heir bad art. not george lucas though he's cool as hell
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 06:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 15:32 |
|
|
There was a time when I would have said Patton Oswalt was my favorite working comedian. Outside its moment his material.... did not age well
Harime Nui fucked around with this message at 07:03 on Jul 5, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 06:58
|
|
|
I can't decide whether the Internet being a huge, boring, repetitive argument about The Last Jedi is more or less tedious than the Internet being a huge, boring, repetitive argument about Man of Steel and Batman v Superman. You tune it out quickly enough, either way.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 08:14
|
|
|
It is better with Man Of Steel because, like the prequels, it’s an impeccably made but terrifying, divisive movie. Last Jedi is competently made but largely regressive and pointless. In either case, though, the only way out is through.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 08:55
|
|
|
They're all on about the same level for me. They have their strong points and weak points. I am generally content so long as I am at least somewhat entertained, but the arguments over them aren't especially edifying.
Wheat Loaf fucked around with this message at 09:17 on Jul 5, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 09:12
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:It is better with Man Of Steel because, like the prequels, it’s an impeccably made but terrifying, divisive movie. big mark against new star wars: nowhere near as many poop jokes
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 09:25
|
|
|
wyoming posted:Patton Oswalt had a long, horribly unfunny bit about how he wanted to beat George Lucas to death with a shovel because of JarJar Binks. I mean that's dumb as heck and not really defensible but there's a pretty big difference between a professional comedian clearly exaggerating his desire to kill a billionaire that wrote a lovely character and thousands of anonymous unhinged lunatics mailing death threats to a young actor because you hated his first major role.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 10:21
|
|
|
Not really
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 10:22
|
|
|
Brother Entropy posted:why does that make it better George Lucas is responsible for Jar Jar's existence, Ahmed Best is not. It's like blaming the paperboy or the editor for a news story; they're not the ones responsible for the event
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 12:01
|
|
|
A lot of choices in how he moved, talked and acted came from Best.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 12:06
|
|
|
Jar Jar is more of an Indiana Jones character.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 12:10
|
|
|
jivjov posted:George Lucas is responsible for Jar Jar's existence, Ahmed Best is not. It's like blaming the paperboy or the editor for a news story; they're not the ones responsible for the event That's incredibly patronizing towards Best
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 12:19
|
|
|
I'm not saying he didn't have any input into the character, but had Lucas not written the role, he wouldn't have been cast to be in a position to make saId input. And I'm someone who likes Jar Jar. I'm just saying that if you're gonna blame someone for Jar Jar's existence, the bulk of that blame lies with Lucas, not Best.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 12:22
|
|
|
The problem was never Jar Jar Bink's existence jivjov, the problem lies with racism and sexism as ideologies - that are deeply embedded and manifest within fandom. The train of thought you're on is effectively shielding those who drove Best to contemplate suicide from criticism because of how they reacted to a character in a movie.
brawleh fucked around with this message at 12:47 on Jul 5, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 12:43
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:It is better with Man Of Steel because, like the prequels, it’s an impeccably made but terrifying, divisive movie. I gasped with terror when Jar Jar stepped in the poopie
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 12:44
|
|
|
Wheat Loaf posted:I can't decide whether the Internet being a huge, boring, repetitive argument about The Last Jedi is more or less tedious than the Internet being a huge, boring, repetitive argument about Man of Steel and Batman v Superman. based white noise poster
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 13:04
|
|
|
I watched TLJ for the second time. This movie is actually pretty good, especially the Acht-To scenes. But I still can’t get over Luke’s attempted murder. It’s just too inconsistent with his character for me. I don’t mind that he needs to be in exile for the purposes of the movie, but the “why” is just too unbelievable. If the story needed to be about Kylo coming to the realization that “lol nothing matters, and that goes double for republicanism” then let’s have Han influence him. It avoids the problem of having to introduce a villain stronger than Palpatine, and Luke can go into exile for some other reason. It can still be emotional, but tactically maybe there could be another reason. The Jedi don’t give up hope, not even (or maybe especially) in nephews. I can’t get past that.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 14:24
|
|
|
Jedi Knight Luigi posted:But I still can’t get over Luke’s attempted murder. It’s just too inconsistent with his character for me. I don’t mind that he needs to be in exile for the purposes of the movie, but the “why” is just too unbelievable. What is his character, in your mind?
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 15:39
|
|
|
I'm a casual fan who's been sick of Star Wars for a while and swore it off, but all the fan bitching about Last Jedi combined with reviews that said it had a lot of weird humor made me check it out on Netflix. I loved it. It's good/bad. Bad in the sense of its cornier scenes (which I loved ironically), and in the sense that it's a little bloated with a Dark Knight-esque kitchen sink of philosophical ideas. I have a hard time imagining myself every wanting to watch it casually again the way I used to pop on "Empire," and it's not exactly a memorable piece of standalone cinema the way that movie was. But it was a hilarious, fun ride with tons of welcome surprises. I was super thrilled by how much it kept subverting expectations and its willingness to kill some of the old gods of the SW mythos. If sequels actually follow through on the movie's promise of continuing to deviate from the old cliches, I'd actually be interested in Star Wars again. I get the impression, though, this is going to be one of those things where the studios get regrets about having rocked the boat and double-down on the old formulas for subsequent movies, wanting to get points back for "returning to form" or whatever.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 16:48
|
|
|
Bruceski posted:What is his character, in your mind? In my mind, Luke Skywalker would recognize the hypocrisy such a fatal stance towards Ben’s stewing fall would look like compared to his hopeful (and successful) approach to Vader. The best defense I’ve read for it went along the lines of “Luke’s always been a guy who went with his gut, see him disobey Yoda and Obi-wan?” but the reasoning there has always been compassion for his personal friends. I would think a nephew would fall under that category. Certainly a long-lost father eventually did. To boot he’s supposedly older and wiser by the time Ben is in his 20s (or whenever the passé flashbacks are supposed to take place). I’ll never be able to get past it. Jedi Knight Luigi fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Jul 5, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 18:11
|
|
|
Jedi Knight Luigi posted:I watched TLJ for the second time. It felt like they were setting up Ren and Luke coming to a schism regarding how to Jedi the best in the wake of Vader that caused them both to be where they were at the start of Force Awakens. So I thought the reason was pretty stupid too even though I do like the movie a lot. Like it was a fleeting thought he immediately dismissed and realized was wrong but he still got to the point where he was about to stealth-kill Ben and everything? People still argue the semantics about whether or not he tried to kill Ben or thought about trying to kill Ben in the thread now because the way he describes it doesn't match what we see on the in the flashback. Rian tried to have his cake and eat it too where we're meant to think Luke is rad and noble despite him being a huge dumbass.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 18:32
|
|
|
For me, I'm cool with the movie exploring luke's fall from grace into insane monster territory. I'm even cool with doing that and having him getting redeemed in the end. But to do those things and also act like he was a great hero who inspires the next generation of the resistance is just fundamentally confused, as if the movie forgot that it's possible to have a personal redemption a la vader that didn't excuse or ignore all the horrible poo poo vader did
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 18:40
|
|
|
I wouldn't say he goes with his gut, I'd say that the pacifist approach doesn't come naturally to him. In ESB there was that whole "you would become the darkness you seek to destroy" scene in the tree, and though he seems calmer and "proper Jedi" confronting Jabba in RotJ, the final fight against Vader has a lot of holding himself back. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDs2UGCP2Fk Particularly 3 minutes in when Leia is threatened, I forgot how brutal the beatdown is afterward. He wins out over those instincts the end, but it's still there in a way that'll cause problems. (this isn't unique to Star Wars, a lot of happy endings start having problems if the camera kept rolling after the credits) With that view of it he doesn't see the situation as his nephew going astray, he sees it as Snoke ensnaring him and the reflex reaction is to cut him free. Metaphorically speaking; I doubt he had enough time in the moment to think "this is a tricky ethical situation but Ben's totally going to force-ghost and tell me I did the right thing after I bisect him".
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 18:42
|
|
|
Neo Rasa posted:Rian tried to have his cake and eat it too where we're meant to think Luke is rad and noble despite him being a huge dumbass.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 20:28
|
|
|
Right, so, some years ago, I was shown an anonymous Star Wars fan's letter to a fan magazine from 1987, which was trying to call people to arms against "[a] sick movie should be considered high sacrilege and extreme offense against all SW fandom" called Spaceballs. I'd been trying to find it again without success, and happened to mention it today in PYF. Lo and behold.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 20:41
|
|
|
What’s bizarre is that people buy the ‘briefest moment of instinct’ exposition, when we’re actually shown how Luke slooowly activates the laser blade and then spends like a minute contemplating the ‘off’ switch - stroking it pensively with his robo-thumb, until Ben wakes up. Luke’s ‘briefest moment of instinct’ actually occurs when a confused and frightened Ben grabs a sword to defend himself. At this point, Luke starts yelling and instinctively intiates - then immediately loses - a swordfight. It’s important to be specific: Drink-Mix Man posted:If sequels actually follow through on the movie's promise of continuing to deviate from the old cliches, I'd actually be interested in Star Wars again. TLJ’s sole ‘subversion’ of previous films’ war scenes is to show that they have limited resources and manpower, so it’s suddenly bad when people die. But this is not a subversion; finite resources are only a problem in this film because “the galaxy has lost all its hope. The spark is out” - because there are no legendary celebrity Jedi calling for donations. So the message is simply that the Jedi are great and the Alliance To Restore the Republic is great - simply saying how much better things were back in the time of the OT. Actual subversion is in Laura Dern’s performance, when Holdo ‘inspirationally’ quotes Leia about how hope is like the sun and whatever, but her message is plainly ‘shut up, and stop questioning things.’ Unlike in Man Of Steel, ‘the light of hope’ is an ideological construct deployed in defence of Krypton.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 20:49
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:What’s bizarre is that people buy the ‘briefest moment of instinct’ exposition, when we’re actually shown how Luke slooowly activates the laser blade and then spends like a minute contemplating the ‘off’ switch - stroking it pensively with his robo-thumb, until Ben wakes up. I was talking more about the movie subverting the audience's expectations about where the story would go, not necessarily saying I thought the movie was "subversive" politically.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 21:11
|
|
|
Timeless Appeal posted:I guess I just find what people are criticizing rings pretty true to real life. People make mistakes, including heroes. Yeah, Luke is a hero who stopped space nazis. He's also incredibly prideful, has a tendency to overly take things onto his own shoulders, and in a moment of weakness, considered doing something awful. But ya know, he still stopped the space nazis. Like this is how the world works. None of us are paragons of our values, and we never see the actual end of the story. We're imperfect people trying to do our best and hopefully setting the stage for someone else come along and do better. That's kind of what Luke learns in The Last Jedi, and it's a useful lesson. Luke Skywalker doesn't stop the "space nazis". You're arguing that his failures are just missteps when counted against the greater good. You error is claiming that Luke Skywalker trying to kill his nephew was simply a mistake, or as you put it, an imperfection. The truth is that he's not simply imperfect, he's corrupt and learns nothing.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 21:50
|
|
|
BravestOfTheLamps posted:Luke Skywalker doesn't stop the "space nazis". You're arguing that his failures are just missteps when counted against the greater good.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 21:58
|
|
|
People really want to act like the Kylo murder episode was the only thing Luke did wrong. Pretty much everything he does from that point on is also reprehensible, from not turning himself over to the authorities for what he did, to never bothering to tell han and leia that he abused their child, to basically doing nothing to make things right with Kylo beyond going "lol sorry"
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 22:08
|
|
|
Drink-Mix Man posted:I was talking more about the movie subverting the audience's expectations about where the story would go, not necessarily saying I thought the movie was "subversive" politically. Those are the same thing. No Mods No Masters posted:People really want to act like the Kylo murder episode was the only thing Luke did wrong. Pretty much everything he does from that point on is also reprehensible, from not turning himself over to the authorities for what he did, to never bothering to tell han and leia that he abused their child, to basically doing nothing to make things right with Kylo beyond going "lol sorry" Everything before that point too. My favourite example of Luke being a poo poo-head is that he didn’t even read the Jedi Texts - evidently because he found them boring.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 22:25
|
|
|
Who is someone who's a good analog to Luke, but in our world? A hero in his time, still lionized by some- who had just one little moment of weakness, involving child abuse and covering up child abuse? Oh. Oh
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 22:29
|
|
|
They were all written by Kevin J. Anderson; he almost did the right thing. (The fire did the right thing.) My evidence for this is: Rey was dumb enough to save them.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 22:30
|
|
|
No Mods No Masters posted:People really want to act like the Kylo murder episode was the only thing Luke did wrong. Pretty much everything he does from that point on is also reprehensible, from not turning himself over to the authorities for what he did, to never bothering to tell han and leia that he abused their child, to basically doing nothing to make things right with Kylo beyond going "lol sorry" Yes this is why I adore the film. Luke fucks up and does a bunch of bad things and at the end he doesn’t make any excuses for it. He looks it dead in the eye and says “I hosed Which is very powerful to me. A weaker film would still have Luke try and save Kylo or something. I love that line delivery after Kylo asks if he comes to save his soul. “No.” It’s so real to me. He embraces his mistakes and in turn saves the Resistance and sets off a chain reaction spark for what he did, and he didn’t use a single bit of violence. It’s wonderful.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 22:30
|
|
|
CelticPredator posted:Yes this is why I adore the film. Luke fucks up and does a bunch of bad things and at the end he doesn’t make any excuses for it. He looks it dead in the eye and says “I hosed I'm pretty sure Mark Hamill said in one interview that Luke is celibate so he never hosed, actually. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 22:37
|
|
|
I hate phone posting. Someone send me 2 grand please for a new Mac please.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 22:41
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:Those are the same thing. *Sigh* I'm just saying I liked the surprises
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 22:42
|
|
|
CelticPredator posted:Yes this is why I adore the film. Luke fucks up and does a bunch of bad things and at the end he doesn’t make any excuses for it. He looks it dead in the eye and says “I hosed False. Luke never fucks. He died a virgin. CelticPredator posted:It’s so real to me. He embraces his mistakes and in turn saves the Resistance and sets off a chain reaction spark for what he did, and he didn’t use a single bit of violence. This is just idiotic. Why is it wonderful that Luke Skywalker saves a bunch of idiots who want to restore a corrupt government? It was so real to me when Luke mocked his nephew whom he tried to murder.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 22:43
|
|
|
No Mods No Masters posted:Who is someone who's a good analog to Luke, but in our world? A hero in his time, still lionized by some- who had just one little moment of weakness, involving child abuse and covering up child abuse? Isn't hurting younglings more like Vader
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 22:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 15:32 |
|
|
Pictured: A character showing remorse and humility to the person he wronged.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2018 23:03
|
|
