|
I can count the number of 30k games I've played on one hand, but I didn't mind Centurion. It just feels bit lazy outright banning 90% of the models. Really we wouldn't have this issue if Forgeworld was better at structuring and balancing the game.
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2018 12:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 13:09 |
|
|
Endman posted:I can count the number of 30k games I've played on one hand, but I didn't mind Centurion. I felt apart from vets, phosphex mortars and the loving Scorpius it was pretty tolerable... and then inferno landed. I blame the tourists 
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2018 12:34
|
|
|
Wasn't the go-to excuse in the community that Wolves and Thousand Sons should only be fighting each other because it's an ~*~historical wargame~*~
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2018 12:43
|
|
|
Endman posted:Really we wouldn't have this issue if Forgeworld was better at structuring and balancing the game. Welp, we're hosed.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2018 12:57
|
|
|
Endman posted:Wasn't the go-to excuse in the community that Wolves and Thousand Sons should only be fighting each other because it's an ~*~historical wargame~*~ I can name from the books examples of the Wolves fighting World Eaters and Alpha Legion, and Thousand Sons fighting Ultramarines and Death Guard.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2018 13:58
|
|
|
Yeah, I always assume that Centurion is for people who have lovely friends. I really like playing troop heavy stuff, but with all the restrictions just mashing your guys together is just so boring.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2018 16:07
|
|
|
xutech posted:I'm getting started in HH and it's a lot more welcoming to make a force out of a Calth boxed set and some extras, and have a good game that's fairly equal, rather than turning up to play people with two grand of resin who kick the poo poo out of me every game. Centurion is very good in that regard. Please critique my centurion list, it only uses models from the Calth box. Praetor in Terminator armour: Rite of War (Pride of the Legion); Paragon blade 155 5 Veteran Space Marines: Veteran Sergeant (artificer armour; combi-weapon); Marksmen; 4 Veteran Space Marines; 3 × combi-weapon (3 × plasma); plasma gun 165 5 Veteran Space Marines: Veteran Sergeant (artificer armour; combi-weapon); Marksmen; 4 Veteran Space Marines; 3 × combi-weapon (3 × plasma); plasma gun 165 5 Veteran Space Marines: Veteran Sergeant (artificer armour; combi-weapon); Marksmen; 4 Veteran Space Marines; 3 × combi-weapon (3 × plasma); plasma gun 165 5 Veteran Space Marines: Veteran Sergeant (artificer armour; combi-weapon); Marksmen; 4 Veteran Space Marines; 3 × combi-weapon (3 × plasma); plasma gun 165 5 Veteran Space Marines: Veteran Sergeant (artificer armour; combi-weapon); Marksmen; 4 Veteran Space Marines; 3 × combi-weapon (3 × plasma); plasma gun 165 5 Veteran Space Marines: Veteran Sergeant (artificer armour; combi-weapon); Marksmen; 4 Veteran Space Marines; 3 × combi-weapon (3 × plasma); plasma gun 165 5 Terminators: Terminator Sergeant (chainfist); 4 Terminators; Terminator armour (Cataphractii); 2 × power fist; 2 × chainfist 215 Contemptor Mortis Dreadnought: 2 Kheres pattern assault cannons 180 1,540 points
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2018 16:11
|
|
|
tallkidwithglasses posted:Please critique my centurion list, it only uses models from the Calth box. Bitch, those weapons all better be WYSIWYG!
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2018 17:57
|
|
|
If they’re WYSIWYG then how can they magically change to become what you need at the start of the game?
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2018 18:11
|
|
|
Just at the start of the game? I expected less of you! I'm all about those mid game swaps.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2018 18:40
|
|
|
I guess the real lesson here is that you can't mechanically insulate the game from assholes, so why even try!
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2018 18:47
|
|
|
You can't prevent nazis either, yet we keep trying that.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2018 20:40
|
|
|
JcDent posted:I guess the real lesson here is that you can't mechanically insulate the game from assholes, so why even try! I think there’s potential house rules that can keep people honest- making quad mortars and marksmen vets 0-1 and not allowing HQ slot primarchs would cut down on a lot of the truly bullshit builds, and I’ve always liked having a baby Price of Failure rule in effect for terminators and veterans (wipe a squad of them and get a VP). The main thing is that for some reason people think Centurion cuts down on the BS when it just objectively doesn’t- instead it randomly nerfs armies like Solar Auxilia, Iron Hands, Iron Warriors, Dark Angels and White Scars while doing nothing against some excellent armies like Sons of Horus, 1k Sons, Space Wolves and Custodes. If you want to play a low powered, smaller game just play ZM or talk with your opponent beforehand, Centurion just doesn’t really do anything besides randomly shafting some lists, and with the exception of Ironfire none of the lists are even particularly powerful.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2018 20:42
|
|
|
I’m extremely pro-Centurion because all the poo poo Centurion prohibits just makes the exact army I play better.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2018 23:58
|
|
|
tallkidwithglasses posted:Please critique my centurion list, it only uses models from the Calth box. Look. It seems you've ignored every point I've made. Building broken army lists would not make you welcome at most mature events, we all understand that. You seem extremely hostile to a mod of the game that works for a group of people. It is no different to anyone playing and enjoying Zone Mortalis, and yet you're not railing against them? Can you not understand that Centurion is a mod that can be played sometimes and does not somehow affect the hobby as a whole or prevent people from playing normal games at the same event or place whenever they wish, and does not prevent them buying vehicles and other things? I don't understand why you are so belligerent about this.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2018 00:27
|
|
|
xutech posted:Look. It seems you've ignored every point I've made. Building broken army lists would not make you welcome at most mature events, we all understand that. You seem extremely hostile to a mod of the game that works for a group of people. It is no different to anyone playing and enjoying Zone Mortalis, and yet you're not railing against them? Can you not understand that Centurion is a mod that can be played sometimes and does not somehow affect the hobby as a whole or prevent people from playing normal games at the same event or place whenever they wish, and does not prevent them buying vehicles and other things? But you can make a not-broken army with the regular rules too. I think what he's trying to say is that people, particularly the people who write the centurion rules, say that centurion helps you run more balanced games. So he's pointing out that centurion is no better for game balance, and it still comes down to having good opponents.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2018 00:39
|
|
|
Rhinos: The Real Scourge of 30k? You decide.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2018 01:33
|
|
|
xutech posted:Look. It seems you've ignored every point I've made. Building broken army lists would not make you welcome at most mature events, we all understand that. You seem extremely hostile to a mod of the game that works for a group of people. It is no different to anyone playing and enjoying Zone Mortalis, and yet you're not railing against them? Can you not understand that Centurion is a mod that can be played sometimes and does not somehow affect the hobby as a whole or prevent people from playing normal games at the same event or place whenever they wish, and does not prevent them buying vehicles and other things? How many games of centurion have you played?
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2018 01:35
|
|
|
xutech posted:Look. It seems you've ignored every point I've made. Building broken army lists would not make you welcome at most mature events, we all understand that. You seem extremely hostile to a mod of the game that works for a group of people. It is no different to anyone playing and enjoying Zone Mortalis, and yet you're not railing against them? Can you not understand that Centurion is a mod that can be played sometimes and does not somehow affect the hobby as a whole or prevent people from playing normal games at the same event or place whenever they wish, and does not prevent them buying vehicles and other things? Here’s your point I made that list in response to, just so it’s on this page: I’m getting started in HH and it's a lot more welcoming to make a force out of a Calth boxed set and some extras, and have a good game that's fairly equal, rather than turning up to play people with two grand of resin who kick the poo poo out of me every game. Centurion is very good in that regard. You also had a couple implied points in that post, such as “my mom couldn’t quit drinking for 9 months” and “somewhere up my family tree, cousins definitely hosed.” My counterpoint, as made in a couple posts and as booley explained as well, was that centurion does not do anything to improve game balance. It just makes certain already good strategies even better while making other strategies completely nonviable. There are already good rules available for sub 2k point games in tactical strike and Zone Mortalis, so it’s not like it’s filling a particular niche that was otherwise unserved. (In fact, a Calth box makes an excellent ZM force for pretty much any legion.) Centurion is just a random rear end list of restrictions made by podcasters that theoryhammer people consider to be a balance patch for some reason.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2018 01:44
|
|
|
 Great balance mod from some humble, well adjusted dudes. We should all try it. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2018 01:57
|
|
|
My favourite part of this thread is how we are actively hostile towards new people joining the game.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2018 02:11
|
|
|
Endman posted:My favourite part of this thread is how we are actively hostile towards new people joining the game. Well being dirty with forgeworld gets us no where and they sure as poo poo hear every criticism or suggestion as “release more custodes and knight heads and then cut the range” it’s no surprise people are salty and lash out. The lore and 30k universe is great but its support is not. My new Fists army is 100% built with being able to be used in 30 and 40k of all flavors just because I don’t trust FW to foster this game properly. Both systems have their problems so I just roll with what ever has the nicest people to play with in my area at the time.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2018 02:41
|
|
|
Honestly, they should kill this game and lean heavily into Zone Mortalis as its own 30k specialist game. Having 30k be in direct competition with 40k and AoS for people's time and money is hilariously stupid. Forgeworld should not have its own flagship tabletop wargame.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2018 03:01
|
|
|
Endman posted:Honestly, they should kill this game get out idiot
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2018 03:14
|
|
|
Endman posted:Honestly, they should kill this game and lean heavily into Zone Mortalis as its own 30k specialist game. back a couple of years ago it was the perfect storm of 7th edition 40k being so terrible (formations etc, etc) and then GWs corporate culture being so toxic for so long to the larger companies decisions that a large chunk of the player base was looking for an alternative way to spend their money and time on. 30k was just getting its legs under it then and the lack of formations and cool 30k setting really pressure cooked it into some awesome with large chunks of the older gaming population gravitating towards it. Then Kriby stepped back from GW's helm and 8th edition hit, all within a year or two we had the poo poo show that was inferno and endless custodes + staying with 7th debates + Bligh passing away. 30k lost all its momentum and 40k and now even AOS are looking fresh again. GW's main flagship games are by no means perfect, but their FAQ, model, codex and community engagement are really doing well. FW on the other hand are running about doing heaps of little specialist things quickly and then dropping them, their community engagement is questionable, their releases for 30k are too and then this whole smoke and mirrors with last chance to buy. So yeah your 100% right for their to be so many competing wargames from one over arching company being to much for most normal people with lives to commit too, the ones that will survive are the ones that support their players/community and keep them engaged.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2018 03:23
|
|
|
Endman posted:Honestly, they should kill this game They haven't done that already?
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2018 07:13
|
|
|
JcDent posted:They haven't done that already? With their typical competence, they've tried and failed
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2018 07:37
|
|
|
I'm sorry to you new guys starting out- we do talk a lot of poo poo, but by and large I've had really good experiences with the community. There are a number of infantry heavy lists you can run. Depends a lot on your meta, but almost all the troops choices are viable unless you only play with dick kickers. There's also Tac Strike from book 3 if you're looking for really small scale games.Endman posted:Honestly, they should kill this game and lean heavily into Zone Mortalis as its own 30k specialist game. I disagree with the cannibalism argument because most successful IPs in the games business have entry, flagship, premium, and specialist offerings. AoS pulls in the young kids, they grow into 40k, and as they get older they go to 30k. GWs just finally getting their business together in a modern sense. Their business practices are still some bizantine poo poo though and the way they've mismanaged FW is pretty comical (hence all the thread schadenfreude) BULBASAUR fucked around with this message at 07:47 on Jul 8, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2018 07:44
|
|
|
Didnt FW say at one of their weekenders exactly that, that 30k was supposed to be a veterans game compared to 40k?
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2018 09:44
|
|
|
BULBASAUR posted:I disagree with the cannibalism argument because most successful IPs in the games business have entry, flagship, premium, and specialist offerings. AoS pulls in the young kids, they grow into 40k, and as they get older they go to 30k. GWs just finally getting their business together in a modern sense. This would only make sense if GW had intended the games to work this way and I highly doubt they did. After all, they're currently in the process of simplifying 40k to appeal to the same entry-level tabletop wargamers as Age of Sigmar. 30k has always been a bizarre passion project from a studio with a lot less structure; not a "premium level wargame" intended to fit into GW's weird ecosystem.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2018 12:06
|
|
|
ZM and Centurion are Good. Noone is forcing people to play Centurion. I've seen it as an option at the events I've played at, always had fun playing it, and it means things like box dreads get to have some time in the sun when they might not otherwise work. Just finished up at Path to Confrontation - turns out 10 Stormshield imperial fists cataphractii with a Primus medicae, chaplain and terminator Praetor in a Spartan pretty much roll the entire Heresy on their own. Great time, but felt a bit bad tabling 3/5 opponents and leaving the remaining 2 with a bare handful of units.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2018 17:33
|
|
|
Endman posted:Wasn't the go-to excuse in the community that Wolves and Thousand Sons should only be fighting each other because it's an ~*~historical wargame~*~ The excuse, by Alan, is that these are the two legions at their utmost power peak.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2018 21:52
|
|
|
Im not looking forward to the wolves further on then, if this is the peak of their power.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2018 08:17
|
|
|
Peak of their sculpts
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2018 08:43
|
|
|
JcDent posted:Peak of their sculpts  I was so close to making a Space Wolves army, but the FW sculpts are literally worse then the GW ones. I will admit to liking the basic 40k Space Wolf stuff like the Wolf Guard terminators and the Grey Hunters. Thunder Wolf cavalry have always been stupid though.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2018 11:01
|
|
|
What’s a good starting point for building a ZM list for night lords? A contemptor seems like an auto pick and I assume a few blobs of tacticals to get the talent for murder bonus? The 30k scene around nyc is pretty dead it seems like so it’s been hard to get a feel for it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2018 14:20
|
|
|
I retract all of my heretofore posted opinions ITT. 30k is a blessed game of the gods. Praise be.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2018 15:15
|
|
|
Forge World appears to have just put up errata for the main rules and drop pods as a whole, and (among other things) I think we just saw Vet Spam take a bit of a hit as Marksmen were removed entirely unless I’m somehow reading this wrong.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2018 15:15
|
|
|
It's actually happening. The FAQ is real.  There's so much good stuff here. Champions can take paragon blades for 20 points, sniper vets are dead, seekers can take combi weapons for 5 points, etc., etc.There's also one for you perfidious monsters that play custodes.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2018 15:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 13:09 |
|
|
Tired: marksmen vets, boarding shields Wired: augury scanners and legion champions
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2018 15:58
|
|