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Mr. Maltose posted:I suffer from developmental disabilities that have stunted my motor skills and I'm autistic. Yes, you shitpiece, I am. I'm also autistic Oh you were responding to numbnuts, gonna leave this post anyway
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Jul 9, 2018 23:12
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congrats, stop using loving slurs then.
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Jul 9, 2018 23:12
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:I'm also autistic Christ
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Jul 9, 2018 23:14
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Forget it
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Jul 9, 2018 23:15
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:Forget it Ok
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Jul 9, 2018 23:16
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Bedlamdan posted:"It's not my fault I can't read and just shitpost for the sake of dunking on you, you're just not dumbing this poo poo down enough for me!"
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Jul 9, 2018 23:31
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Getting back onto the topic, the original poster updated with a response from WW, and it is some of the finest shade-throwing I've seen in a while.quote:Edit: Following the article’s publication, DogWithDice was approached directly by Tobias Sjögren, CEO of White Wolf publishing, requesting the chance to speak with concerning the article mentioned. We were invited to email Tobias. After some consideration, we put together the following questions to raise. This screenshot is edited to remove personal details only. That is some of the best 'it is pointless to talk to you because you will misrepresent anything we discuss' I've seen implied in quite some time.
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Jul 9, 2018 23:31
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Liquid Communism posted:That is some of the best 'it is pointless to talk to you because you will misrepresent anything we discuss' I've seen implied in quite some time. Hm. Man I don't know. I wish I had more insight into what was happening behind the scenes. On the one hand, pretty much all the stuff pointed out in the article still stands - notably, no desire to denounce Zak or even mention him, or Mark, for that matter; and this whole, 'we want to talk to you' thing just seems, I don't know, stupid, but who knows, maybe the writer can angle into a 'consultant' credit here or something. More likely they're just trying to sea-lion the writer by moving the discussion out of the visible sphere. Denouncing nazism is, you know, the point; but if they don't adjust the tone of their work, or change significant details, I have no reason to believe them. Actions and words and all that. You can say, 'oh yeah, I agree, nazis suck' all day but if you've still got a swastika on your coaster I'm going to have questions.
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Jul 10, 2018 00:13
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So I was reading the new Geist update and saw the character creation section, which didn't surprise me, but reminded me of something that's bothered me ever since someone pointed it out to me with respect to Demon. This might be a lost cause given how old the precedent is by now, but please consider reversing the order of character creation in Chronicles of Darkness books. Choosing attributes and skills before you apply the supernatural template and choose a splat is counterproductive, from a mechanical, organizational, and flavor standpoint. Characters in CoD games are defined, primarily, by their powers. The powers they have access to are usually at least partially dictated by their "type" (bloodline/path/etc) and culture splats, and splats are subsets of game line. The mechanical effectiveness of powers depends on your investment in specific attributes, specific skills, and power stat. An effective character -- and I'm not even talking about insane optimization tricks or individually broken powers or merits, just in terms of being good at the things you want your character to be good at -- is virtually always one that picks a group of powers with a lot of overlapping attributes and skills and invests heavily in those attributes and skills. (Because then they get to roll a ton of dice any time they do the things they're specialized in.) There are probably arguments for choosing splats before powers or powers before splats, but both splats and powers should absolutely come before choosing attributes or skills. First, because of the reasons mentioned above -- you're just more likely to make effective characters this way without having to be deeply familiar with the mechanics of the game. Veteran players will figure this out on their own, but you shouldn't be penalized for innocently following the instructions you're given. Second, because powers are often not organized by the attributes/skills that power them, it makes sense to pick out cool powers and then back them up with the appropriate dots, rather than picking out attributes and then struggling to find powers that they enable. There's no easy way to find all the "social powers" in e.g. Demon, let alone Presence + Persuasion-based powers -- you just have to check all the Embeds and Exploits and make notes as you go. (Promethean is kinda-sorta an exception because the Refinements often do map to Mental / Physical / Social, at least to some degree, and of course once you start talking about Mage everything goes straight out the window, but the point mostly applies to most game lines.) Third, because from a flavor standpoint splat is honestly the most important part of character concept, even in the game lines where it doesn't have a ton of mechanical weight. If you're playing a Mekhet, it's probably because you think "Egyptian-themed vampire made of whispers and shadows" is a cool idea. It might not be more important than "my character is an arrogant and manipulative jerk who likes to get his way" or whatever, but it's definitely more central than "I guess I only need two dots in Composure." An an addendum, I know that a lot of World of Darkness characters are, conceptually, ordinary people who got turned into monsters, and this makes the "build a human character, and then apply the monster template" appealing -- and I sort of agree, but I don't think it's worth the downsides. Also, for Demons it just straight-up isn't true. 
Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 03:21 on Jul 10, 2018 |
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Jul 10, 2018 00:24
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also while it isn't my personal favorite, the more I compare different Chronicles of Darkness games to each other the more I realize that Promethean 2E is better-designed than most of them and should probably be used as a model for how to do things right in future games
Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Jul 10, 2018 |
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Jul 10, 2018 00:34
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Oh you want the splat to come before the mechanics? Like in Werewolf the Forsaken
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Jul 10, 2018 00:38
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Basic Chunnel posted:Oh you want the splat to come before the mechanics? Like in Werewolf the Forsaken I'm confused, I just checked my WtF 2E PDF and it looks the same as every other line: (page 84, character creation quick reference) 1. Concept 2. Attributes 3. Skills 4. Skill Specialties 5. Forsaken Traits 6. Merits 7. Advantages Was it different in 1E or something?
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Jul 10, 2018 00:41
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Mendrian posted:but if you've still got a swastika on your coaster I'm going to have questions. I bought it in Mumbai
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Jul 10, 2018 00:43
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Chapter 3 of the Geist manuscript, or, "we will outline clearly in a bulleted list how you acquire Keys, how you Unlock Keys, and what benefits you derive from doing so," is in the running for biggest improvement over 1e by itself.
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Jul 10, 2018 00:56
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Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:Chapter 3 of the Geist manuscript, or, "we will outline clearly in a bulleted list how you acquire Keys, how you Unlock Keys, and what benefits you derive from doing so," is in the running for biggest improvement over 1e by itself. It is delightful. That... didn't put me off of Demon, but Ciphers can be hard.
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Jul 10, 2018 01:34
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Ciphers are probably the most difficult and time-consuming thing I've ever had to do as a GM.
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Jul 10, 2018 01:43
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Hey folks! Please don't throw "retarded" around, even if you are autistic yourself. 
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Jul 10, 2018 04:22
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Onyx Path weighs in.OP posted:Long time readers of this blog might have noticed that we, or the tabletop RPG business as a whole, often have incidents occur during the course of a year that flare up on social media for one reason or the other that Onyx Path doesn’t really officially comment on. This isn’t an accident, as I don’t think a lot is gained by verbally sparring in social media while we have games and books that need to be created and made available to all of you folks.
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Jul 10, 2018 04:51
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So basically the universal company line on all fronts will be 'we're actually the victims here, and we're very brave saying we don't like nazis while calling you idiots for pointing out dogwhistles'?
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Jul 10, 2018 05:13
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Ettin posted:Hey folks! Please don't throw "retarded" around, even if you are autistic yourself. okay randy
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Jul 10, 2018 05:19
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Ciphers are probably the most difficult and time-consuming thing I've ever had to do as a GM. Ciphers are a lot easier if you can identify a theme in the character or their arc. Don't try to have them cooked up on the front end, just fill it in as things go on and it becomes a hell of a lot easier.
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Jul 10, 2018 05:22
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Also MRH posted about it, basically answering none of the allegations and instead just trying (but failing) to cover his rear end. The URL he linked is White Wolf's initial bad response - MRH didn't post the article itself. Probably because it includes a telling screenshot of him telling people to submit rather than fight back.Mark Rein-Hagen posted:I am curious if anyone thinks it is possible to create any kind of "edgy or mores challenging" RPG that would NOT offend a single sub-group seriously but would still appeal to a bare majority of the polities/segments/minorities/politics/CLANS
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Jul 10, 2018 05:23
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sexpig by night posted:So basically the universal company line on all fronts will be 'we're actually the victims here, and we're very brave saying we don't like nazis while calling you idiots for pointing out dogwhistles'? There is a paper-thin, but present, barrier between the people making the games that Swededracula has openly stated he'd prefer to cancel immediately and Swededracula himself.
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Jul 10, 2018 05:26
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yeah like I don't know what people expect OPP to do as long as their existence is tied to having Chronicles of Darkness books to put out
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Jul 10, 2018 05:29
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Blockhouse posted:yeah like I don't know what people expect OPP to do as long as their existence is tied to having Chronicles of Darkness books to put out OPP is in the unenviable position of licensing back an IP they created from someone who can't wait to use the same IP to bring us all back to the 90s in a gleaming nazi chariot. I don't know what I would do in their position. In other news, lol at the MRH quote. Anybody making that Churchill quote has to know what they sound like.
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Jul 10, 2018 05:32
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OPP also has a lot of good actions and writing to back up their position of "We don't want Nazis to buy our stuff" even if the statement isn't the best. NuWW and MRH up above have been either too cowardly or too greedy to even say something as basic as telling Nazis they're not welcome. MRH is trying to both sides this.
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Jul 10, 2018 05:33
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if you want to yell at someone yell at Paradox but good luck because those guys have made it clear they don't give a fuuuuuuuck about how many fascists and Nazis are in their audience
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Jul 10, 2018 05:34
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Huh, looks like Scion Origin is out to backers this week. Meanwhile, Signs of Sorcery is stuck in Development still. Hopefully it'll be out before the end of the year.
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Jul 10, 2018 05:39
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Is MR*H saying that it is the duty of Liberals to educate facists away from their evil ways?
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Jul 10, 2018 06:03
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Kurieg posted:Is MR*H saying that it is the duty of Liberals to educate facists away from their evil ways? Yes, because violent self-defense is a breach of  .
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Jul 10, 2018 06:13
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good luck to onyx path. White Wolf has pretty much thrown itself in the toilet. That MRH statement is pretty much par for the troglodyte course, gamer gate level non-denial
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Jul 10, 2018 06:27
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Mendrian posted:OPP is in the unenviable position of licensing back an IP they created from someone who can't wait to use the same IP to bring us all back to the 90s in a gleaming nazi chariot. Yea, fair. I guess I'm just bitter about all this, but yea opp is pretty deep in rock vs hard place territory.
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Jul 10, 2018 06:44
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https://twitter.com/wwpublishing/status/1016548638695272448 That... literally doesn't even change one of the numbers, you freaking idiots at best. gourdcaptain fucked around with this message at 07:01 on Jul 10, 2018 |
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Jul 10, 2018 06:58
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Don't use embed tags And seriously due to the way rolls are resolved, that's functionally identical to 7 6 2 1. You do not need 8 8. You don't even need the loving 4.
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Jul 10, 2018 07:03
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Kurieg posted:Don't use embed tags How should I post that? Just the [url]'s I just ended up with? Sorry, every time I have to embed a tweet on these forums I've forgotten and the BBCode page doesn't help.
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Jul 10, 2018 07:09
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Oh yes, let's put it backwards. Flawless disguise there, Swedish Alucard. EDIT: Aren't all the other example rolls arranged in lowest to highest order?
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Jul 10, 2018 07:12
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Zereth posted:Oh yes, let's put it backwards. Flawless disguise there, Swedish Alucard. *edits numbers to be hitler's birthday* no one will see through my clever disguise
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Jul 10, 2018 08:40
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Wait, hold up, I'm legit having some trouble here. Is 'You shouldn't punch a Nazi because you shouldn't be running around punching people' a problem position now? I've been riding the 'try not to hate people' train for a while now, and I'm gonna feel bad if I start catching flak because I'm perceived as being soft on crime or something.
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Jul 10, 2018 09:31
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Crasical posted:Wait, hold up, I'm legit having some trouble here. On the one hand, running around and punching people in general isn't a good idea. On the other hand, when it happens to a Nazi nobody should really care because Nazis are societal cancer. So what's emerged since Richard Spencer famously got turned into a living meme by being a Nazi who got punched on national television is that a lot of people have started to try and assert that in order to win by taking the high road that not even Nazis should be punched and that people who punch Nazis are undermining the cause of decency, and a number of these people seem more concerned with chiding Nazi punchers than actual Nazis. Mark Rein Dot Hagen says "As I tell everyone, nonviolent protest is [...] the only way we can win in the long run against fascists." Now ignoring whether or not this statement is true in a broad sense (I don't actually think it's a universal truth that the only way society can stave off fascism is through some utopian ideal of nonviolent protest), someone brought up the heavy/black metal scene and how it kind of got gradually intertwined with a lot of neo-Nazi/fascist hangers-on and it reminds me of something I read about the punk music scene, which is that back when there was a punk music scene a bunch of neo-Nazis and similar sorts wanted to make the scene their home and, being the sorts of people they were, they began to poo poo it up. Nazis, as it turns out, are huge fuckin assholes and so at every venue where the Nazis were allowed to show up and participated unmolested, things gradually got worse and worse as the Nazis started fights, broke stuff, and drove off otherwise decent people who just wanted to show up and listen to some punk. So what happened? Did the punk scene band together in harmonious nonviolent protest? No, they started kicking the poo poo out of Nazis and telling them to gently caress off, because that was the only language that the Nazi punks understood and it was either that or let the Nazis in and erode everything like the poison people they are. The tl;dr is anybody who makes a big stink about Nazis getting punched and how awful and shameful it is to do a thing like that is someone with a badly misplaced sense of priorities at best, or a dumb rear end in a top hat at worst.
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Jul 10, 2018 10:30
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Kai Tave posted:Mark Rein Dot Hagen says "As I tell everyone, nonviolent protest is [...] the only way we can win in the long run against fascists." Now ignoring whether or not this statement is true in a broad sense (I don't actually think it's a universal truth that the only way society can stave off fascism is through some utopian ideal of nonviolent protest),
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Jul 10, 2018 10:40
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