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Karl Barks posted:what does a mass worker party in the USA look like to you? Not the Democratic party, and as someone said earlier there's good DSA chapters with more explicit Marxists but a lot of DSA chapters seem to amount to activists for the Democratic party. What does one look like to you?
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Jul 9, 2018 18:43
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:like who gives a drat what they think about anything I don't get either, I guess people need something "killing the left" to hand-wring about when they could easily just not care
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Jul 9, 2018 18:46
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One of the gamergate loser "leftists" on this site was recently whining about r/latestagecapitalism banning AOC discussion. Like why the gently caress do you care you little freak, all you ever do is sob about some forum banning you for having strong opinions on girls haircolor.
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Jul 9, 2018 18:48
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WSWS is bad. about once a year they write an article in defense of roman polanski and how hes not a child rapist even though he raped that child
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Jul 9, 2018 19:15
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apropos to nothing posted:lol if youre going to do this at least post the gif I don't do reaction gifs I'm not a liberal
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Jul 9, 2018 19:22
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Jul 9, 2018 19:23
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apropos to nothing posted:WSWS is bad. about once a year they write an article in defense of roman polanski and how hes not a child rapist even though he raped that child
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Jul 9, 2018 20:09
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horseshoe theory, but for pedos
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Jul 9, 2018 20:14
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Infernot posted:Not the Democratic party, and as someone said earlier there's good DSA chapters with more explicit Marxists but a lot of DSA chapters seem to amount to activists for the Democratic party. What does one look like to you? i don't know, i haven't really seen that and i'm pretty involved with DSA. if there are specific chapters that you think are liberal I'd be interested in hearing about it. as far as my own view of a mass party, somewhere between England's Labor and Venezuela's PSUV is the most realistic scenario here in the states. america's 2 party system is uniquely terrible in a lot of ways, so I think people trying to work through the democratic party aren't completely crazy for doing the things they do. being completely opposed to electoral work is basically accelerationism to me - the result will be fascists taking over every organ of government. yes, even more so than they do now, and it would set the movement back significantly.
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Jul 9, 2018 20:14
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pretty good article about the farmer labor party thats relevant https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/12/democratic-party-minnesota-farmer-labor-floyd-olson
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Jul 9, 2018 20:27
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Jizz Festival posted:Overton window is bullshit hth the book is hilarious though
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Jul 9, 2018 20:37
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:this is a trend red scare is a WSWS psyop
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Jul 9, 2018 20:47
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Infernot posted:Yes, because this is exactly what anyone who's critical of AOC is saying. I'm just curious as to what people think we're going to accomplish this time differently with AOC. AOC, Bernie, etc, are all rehabilitating 'socialism' just as a concept. That's a good fundamental to have. The DSA is spreading the word, winning elections, and improving people's lives. That's a great fundamental. What will happen in the future? No one can say. You just have to fly it by the seat of your pants, roll some dice, make a play. Class consciousness, and the abandonment of capitalism, will occur naturally as the system continues to self-destruct. So it'll be or socialism or barbarism. The task now is to prevent fascism/barbarism winning from that, which means getting people to trust you.
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Jul 10, 2018 01:54
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rudatron posted:Its not about working to some grand plan, is about making a play. The future is too uncertain, too unstable to be laying out detailed strategies about What Is To Be Done. This is just about building fundamentals. i'm going to save this post as a perfect example of what left opportunism looks like.
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Jul 10, 2018 06:02
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Larry Parrish posted:she's better than most liberals but she's still a liberal fam. This "Ocasio-Cortez is just a liberal" stuff only manages to get taken seriously because of the ambiguous relationship between liberalism and leftism in the US, which unlike most countries never had a labor or communist party of lasting electoral significance. Positions that would have been understood as social democracy or democratic socialism in other countries is identified here as liberalism. And the reason you see people like Ocasio-Cortez calling themselves socialists is because those ideas have been branded as anathema by contemporary American liberals.
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Jul 10, 2018 09:55
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It's also because social democrats are the left wing of capital, and all the soft socialist and labor parties of Europe failed. It shouldn't be controversial to say that AOC isn't a socialist, and that doesn't mean it's bad that she was elected.
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Jul 10, 2018 09:59
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marx defined the political group that supports capitalism as liberals. there for aoc is a lib. its ok that she's a lib i just don't think we need to pretend social democracy is some kind of game changing theory that's going to free us all from the tyranny of capital because it's not and it won't. it WILL make us more comfortable though so it's not bad.
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Jul 10, 2018 10:00
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I'll take the left wing version of capitalism if it's all I can get but the takeaway from AOC is that turns out voters do in fact vote for things besides tax cuts
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Jul 10, 2018 10:02
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Larry Parrish posted:marx defined the political group that supports capitalism as liberals. there for aoc is a lib. its ok that she's a lib i just don't think we need to pretend social democracy is some kind of game changing theory that's going to free us all from the tyranny of capital because it's not and it won't. it WILL make us more comfortable though so it's not bad. It's the only significant counter-current against neoliberal nightmare hellworld in the United States, and that makes its figures worth supporting. But stay radical and don't kid yourself.
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Jul 10, 2018 10:02
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If you cannot provide better conditions for workers in the immediate future you are irrelevant, and electoral politics are a great way to do so.
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Jul 10, 2018 10:16
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:It's also because social democrats are the left wing of capital, and all the soft socialist and labor parties of Europe failed. All of the socialist parties failed, period, at least if your objective to get rid of capitalism. I do agree there is an aura of "the failure of socialism" permeating discussions of AOC, but it has as least as much to do with the failure communist bloc, probably more, than the failure of UK Labout or whatever.
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Jul 10, 2018 10:20
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Larry Parrish posted:marx defined the political group that supports capitalism as liberals. there for aoc is a lib. its ok that she's a lib i just don't think we need to pretend social democracy is some kind of game changing theory that's going to free us all from the tyranny of capital because it's not and it won't. it WILL make us more comfortable though so it's not bad. Nobody is actually making all of those hysterical demands of you though. I have no problem with people criticizing AOC for this or that policy, saying it isn't radical enough, and so on, but I almost never encounter anyone doing this! If you look through this thread it's entirely these abstract debates about whether she's really a socialist, or corrupted by the Democratic Party at some spiritual level.
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Jul 10, 2018 10:32
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:isn't the world socialist web site a trot outfit that also thinks #metoo has #gonetoofar and also thinks jerry sandusky got a raw deal https://twitter.com/KarlMarx200yrs/status/1016615033516765184
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Jul 10, 2018 10:40
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Thug Lessons posted:All of the socialist parties failed, period, at least if your objective to get rid of capitalism. Yeah, that's why the successful ones were all communist. 
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Jul 10, 2018 12:39
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Yeah, that's why the successful ones were all communist. "successful"
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Jul 10, 2018 14:03
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Slanderer posted:"successful" if only everyone could seize and hold power for all of ten minutes, like Allende
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Jul 10, 2018 14:58
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Thug Lessons posted:All of the socialist parties failed, period, at least if your objective to get rid of capitalism. I do agree there is an aura of "the failure of socialism" permeating discussions of AOC, but it has as least as much to do with the failure communist bloc, probably more, than the failure of UK Labout or whatever. 
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Jul 10, 2018 15:01
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GalacticAcid posted:if only everyone could seize and hold power for all of ten minutes, like Allende his downfall was due to his overreliance on "project CyberSin", which sought out great power by opening wide the gates of Hell. the exploitation of infernal resources is, of course, western imperialism. he was no true communist
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Jul 10, 2018 15:05
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Slanderer posted:his downfall was due to his overreliance on "project CyberSin", which sought out great power by opening wide the gates of Hell. Doom Eternal is looking great so far
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Jul 10, 2018 15:07
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an actual dog posted:I don't do reaction gifs I'm not a liberal hard to tell from your posting
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Jul 10, 2018 16:15
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https://twitter.com/JohanaTablada/status/1016654576739602432
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Jul 10, 2018 17:12
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Slanderer posted:his downfall was due to his overreliance on "project CyberSin", which sought out great power by opening wide the gates of Hell. Hell hath no fury like an imperialist scorned
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Jul 10, 2018 18:56
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Obviously you haven't read the theory of socialism with bacardi characteristics
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Jul 10, 2018 19:06
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Bolshie by day, Bacardi by night
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Jul 10, 2018 19:08
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Larry Parrish posted:I'll take the left wing version of capitalism if it's all I can get but the takeaway from AOC is that turns out voters do in fact vote for things besides tax cuts thank you I really hate these leftist purity tests whenever a half-way decent left-leaning candidate comes into the picture. almost inevitably the people who share that kind of sentiment are privileged enough to get by in the current hell system, and they ignore the benefits that the poor and working class would have access to
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Jul 10, 2018 20:14
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yea we're all gonna be underwater or burned alive in a few decades if things continue as they are but isn't it ~exciting~ that if you directly and aggressively campaign on the interests of poor people there's still enough of them not completely disillusoined by the system that they'll vote for you enough to win primary???
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Jul 10, 2018 20:29
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Verisimilidude posted:thank you It's not a purity test, it's just a fact lmao
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Jul 10, 2018 21:54
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climate change isnt actually going to kill everyone even given the pessimistic (realistic) estimates scientists arent sharing publicly, just most, and almost all the poor ones. this aint the earths first mass extinction rodeo, and it wont be the last
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Jul 11, 2018 00:52
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Verisimilidude posted:thank you thats not what a purity test is
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Jul 11, 2018 01:31
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R. Guyovich posted:i love when purported "leftists" deploy the exact same arguments democrats do. "purity testing" lmao the irony of this is that tankies do the exact same poo poo
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Jul 11, 2018 02:06
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