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galagazombie posted:The game really suffer from the dev-team having just come off Bloodborne I think. They had gotten used to this super fast aggressive twitchy game they just made and kind of just kept going. But Dark Souls is kind of based around somewhat sluggish methodical combat so the two styles don't mesh very well. It really doesn't help when some enemies are using Bloodborne assets in that you can tell by the way they move they're designed around being fought with sidesteps and gun parries, but your character has neither of those so you end up not being able to fight them "properly" Stamina consumption is also very similar.
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Jul 8, 2018 21:29
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IronicDongz posted:Dark Souls 3 dodges actually have almost the exact frames as bloodborne quickstep dodges(21 frames total vs 20 in bloodborne, or 26 for the unlocked roll in bloodborne). Quicksteps have much less endlag though, which makes it easier to punish a dodged attack compared to the recovery on a DS3 roll
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Jul 8, 2018 21:34
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No, they don't. I'm talking about total frames, not iframes.
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Jul 8, 2018 21:35
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Dodging attacks is extremely easy in Dark Souls 3, but countering them is harder than Bloodborne because the dodge tends to put you further away. Also, the lack of the HP recovery mechanic from Bloodborne means it's a lot harder to safely attack a fast enemy with high poise since you won't be able to get the HP back if you fail to stagger them. It means that battles with fast high-poise enemies tend to be more protracted with me dodging 10 of their attacks for every one of mine that I can safely land. I find myself clearing out areas over and over again in Dark Souls 3, which I never had to do in Dark Souls 1. A lot of the enemies in Dark Souls 3 are just too dangerous to leave alive, which makes repeated exploration tedious, and dying after clearing everything out for the Nth time really sucks.
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Jul 8, 2018 22:00
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sometimes it feels weird swapping out of a quickstep weapon cause it feels so much like it should just be a standard thing given the gameplay tempo
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Jul 8, 2018 22:43
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Volte posted:I find myself clearing out areas over and over again in Dark Souls 3, which I never had to do in Dark Souls 1. A lot of the enemies in Dark Souls 3 are just too dangerous to leave alive, which makes repeated exploration tedious, and dying after clearing everything out for the Nth time really sucks. I also could not, for the life of me, find a summon sign anywhere near there. I put mine down right by the fog gate and got summoned half a dozen times, every time waitong less than a minute, but I ended up having to summon the nearby NPC (because gently caress Oceiros). At least I really love the area and boss that follow.
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Jul 9, 2018 15:23
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It’s a pain in the dick to summon for Oceiros. You can’t put your sign down by the bonfire in the castle because summoning throws up a fog wall to keep you from going to the garden if you do this (???). You can’t put it down by the boss door because most players are just going to be sprinting through to avoid the Cathedral knights. So you basically have to put it right by the shortcut door and pray that the host has opened it so you don’t have to deal with toxin + Pus of Lag. Then you finally get the host to the boss and he lagcharges right over both of you for 1000 damage.
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Jul 9, 2018 15:27
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galagazombie posted:The game really suffer from the dev-team having just come off Bloodborne I think. They had gotten used to this super fast aggressive twitchy game they just made and kind of just kept going. But Dark Souls is kind of based around somewhat sluggish methodical combat so the two styles don't mesh very well. It really doesn't help when some enemies are using Bloodborne assets in that you can tell by the way they move they're designed around being fought with sidesteps and gun parries, but your character has neither of those so you end up not being able to fight them "properly" Yeah I just installed this after beating Dark Souls 1 remastered and totally agree. Lots of dks3 enemies just flail around constantly and literally never stop moving - I can eventually kill these enemies without taking damage, but only because I've memorized exactly where and how they moved; I don't get the sensation that I won because I "played well." Strangely, dks3 strikes me as boring. It's faster, tougher, and controls so much better: but it also feels like a remixed mashup of old demon souls & dark souls content rather than a real sequel. especially the beginning... mandatory 2-hour trek through grey castles and undead villages yet again... Polo-Rican fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Jul 9, 2018 |
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Jul 9, 2018 16:56
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There's a shortcut that lets you completely bypass the swamp portion. All you have to run past is a few thralls and that last cathedral knight.
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Jul 9, 2018 17:09
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lambskin posted:There's a shortcut that lets you completely bypass the swamp portion. All you have to run past is a few thralls and that last cathedral knight. Yeah, that's the thing with remembering some things but not others from my last playthrough: I remembered that I had to drop halfway up the elevator, but I didn't remember what it actually lead to and I never rode it all the way up to the shortcut.
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Jul 9, 2018 17:28
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multijoe posted:Yeah it's not terrible. It's got the most glaringly annoying design decisions of any of the games in the series but it still has its moments. People who have played Bloodborne and rank DS2 above Bloodborne though, are monsters. I officially self identify as a monster, best to worst is clearly DS2 > DS1 > DeS > BB > DS3. All of them, however, are good games.
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Jul 9, 2018 17:31
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if you don't enjoy bloodborne more than ds2 something has gone deeply wrong in your life and I pray for your mental wellbeing
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Jul 9, 2018 18:16
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IronicDongz posted:if you don't enjoy bloodborne more than ds2 something has gone deeply wrong in your life and I pray for your mental wellbeing 
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Jul 9, 2018 18:32
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it's a strictly better souls game with much, much better bosses and the strongest flavor of the series
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Jul 9, 2018 18:41
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IronicDongz posted:if you don't enjoy bloodborne more than ds2 something has gone deeply wrong in your life and I pray for your mental wellbeing I enjoyed both of them, I just enjoyed one more than the other. It's really not that hard of a thing to comprehend tbh.
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Jul 9, 2018 18:42
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fargom posted:It's really not that hard of a thing to comprehend tbh.
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Jul 9, 2018 18:45
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maybe if I put some eyeballs on my brain I'll start liking ds2 more than bb
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Jul 9, 2018 18:45
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IronicDongz posted:reading these posts is the equivalent of consuming a madman's knowledge. my insight is getting way too high consume more friend, obtain the inner sight that will allow you to understand that different people enjoy different things. Also i guess fear old blood or some poo poo?
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Jul 9, 2018 18:46
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IronicDongz posted:maybe if I put some eyeballs on my brain I'll start liking ds2 more than bb Some people like coop and pvp.
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Jul 9, 2018 18:53
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IMHO, DkS2 with no dlc is a C– game at best, but DkS2 with all of its dlc is a solid A
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Jul 9, 2018 19:07
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The hottest Dark Souls 2 take, imo, is that the original game was the best or one of the best and Scholar ruined it
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Jul 9, 2018 19:23
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scholar is worth it for the pursuer finally being worthy of its name.
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Jul 9, 2018 19:50
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double nine posted:scholar is worth it for the pursuer finally being worthy of its name.
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Jul 9, 2018 20:19
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Dark Souls 2 is a chill game where everything feels kind of like a dream and you can go at your own pace, do whatever you want, and you'll eventually get through it. Bloodborne has more of a high-stress nightmare vibe with a lot of beasts and shrieking. Past the first playthrough or two, it's not really down to which one's a better game, but which one is more pleasant to spend time in. I only have like one Bloodborne playthrough per year in me.
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Jul 9, 2018 21:28
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No. 1 Apartheid Fan posted:The hottest Dark Souls 2 take, imo, is that the original game was the best or one of the best and Scholar ruined it *Steps over an invisible line in the Iron Keep* *Every single loving Alonne knight pre Smelter starts howling in the wind and beelines straight for the player* So many improvements *Wander into a corner in giant forest* *turn around and half a dozen turtle knights fall from the sky and start chasing the player* Now this is Dark Souls (TM)
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Jul 9, 2018 21:37
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scholar of the first sin: pay us 40 dollars for a romhack of our own game
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Jul 9, 2018 21:50
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Volte posted:Dark Souls 2 is a chill game where everything feels kind of like a dream and you can go at your own pace, do whatever you want, and you'll eventually get through it. Bloodborne has more of a high-stress nightmare vibe with a lot of beasts and shrieking. Past the first playthrough or two, it's not really down to which one's a better game, but which one is more pleasant to spend time in. I only have like one Bloodborne playthrough per year in me. Haven't played DS2, but the other DS games are so brown and dull that they kind of depress me. Bloodborne is more vibrant, the Chalice Dungeons are the only part that ever feel like DS on that level.
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Jul 9, 2018 22:22
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Volte posted:Bloodborne has more of a high-stress nightmare vibe with a lot of beasts and shrieking. ugh I'm so sick of ultra-realistic games set in modern times
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Jul 9, 2018 22:28
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Perfect Potato posted:*Steps over an invisible line in the Iron Keep* Go onnnnnnn my current character "fisty slammo" the dual wielding cestus man can only get so erect.
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Jul 9, 2018 22:51
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Considering my only experience with DS2 is watching an LP, most of that game looks really ugly to me, the lighting in particular makes everything look flat and bland and the designs for most of the enemies and bosses were either boring, derivative or dopey. Though I liked that water shrine level. I actually really like how DS3 looks and I disagree with people saying it's visually bland or too close to games past. The main thing that strikes me about the game is that it feels like all the signs or decay and perversion of the first game have been continuously ramped up over eons to an extreme degree, every single location and every single boss feels like its the victim of the ravages of time and entropy in a world that's been stretched out long past it's sell by date. You can see that starting with Iudex Gundyr being host to a festering parasite, or the Greatwood being visually 'Curse Rotted', the Abyss Watchers and Wolnir falling prey to the Abyss, the Boreal Valley knights being reduced to shambling animals, the Princes seemingly broken down by their curse. When the bosses make explicit references to past games it's usually makes the degradation even more apparent, Gwyndolin and Anor Londo in general getting reduced from representations of the old god's former grace and glory to the messed up vessels for another disgusting parasite or Oceiros being an even more grotesque and insane avatar of Seath or the Old Demon King looking like the last burnt out remains of the old Demons in an arena littered with his dead kin, who's flame burns out pathetically before you've even finished killing him. I thought it was very powerful and evocative and liked the screwed up environs like the Undead Settlement where they seem to be harvesting people or the entirety of the Cathedral of the Deep, while they obviously have connections to most of the locations in previous games I think they did a good job at putting a unique spin on them and making them feel relevant to what feels like the overarching themes of the game concerning decay, religion, fire and the constantly repeating, degrading and artificial cycles of the world that's finally reaching it's final terminus. khwarezm fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Jul 10, 2018 |
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Jul 10, 2018 01:31
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I mean thematically yes it's extremely fitting and executed really well. In practice though "even more washed out generic fantasy environments" felt really dull for an 80+ hour campaign. Especially coming off of Bloodborne. I love the intrigue and mystery of DS1 and demon souls, it feels a bit phoned in on this one. It does have some really amazing setpieces and very inspired bosses, and to be fair is still in the top five percentile of all games ever made so there's that
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Jul 10, 2018 02:03
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On that note, what really disappointed me personally was the lack of any real momentum or development in the plot. I know that this is also extremely thematically on point but after three games, I was itching for some sort of progression. Some paradigm shift of sorts or major revelation or complete reversal of the order of things, idk. I guess we kinda get that with the last act of the second DLC but ehh, it didn't feel all that satisfying? It was something concrete at least I suppose It could also have a lot to do with eastern storytelling vs western traditions. From what I gather, the concept of cycles, the futility of things etc is much more popular and things don't need to "change" as often or as dramatically whereas we kind of rely on these contrasts and major events to punctuate our plotlines more regularly. I'm not by any means an authority so don't quote me on this, just something I read somewhere Anyways I've said this before but I really do like what they did with gwyndolin because for once we have some sort of progression or development that doesn't feel like a cheap call back or YO REMEMBER THIS CLOWN but rather felt meaningful and organic KingSlime fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Jul 10, 2018 |
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Jul 10, 2018 02:09
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khwarezm posted:[...]Gwyndolin and Anor Londo in general getting reduced from representations of the old god's former grace and glory to the messed up vessels for another disgusting parasite [...] I get why DS3 gets some of the ire it gets; it does get fanservice-y in some places and it does look like it used assets that were originally designed for Bloodborne. I think the Poise issue is very annoying, like DS2 it sometimes tries to be difficult, and the covenants are seriously poo poo. But it's also the most polished and the game where the experience of the dev team shines the most, in my opinion. I think the online features are implemented the best inhow far from your sign you can get without it disappearing, the embering system, the password, the number of phantoms... (although I miss getting my health/spells/estus back after defeating a boss as a phantom), and while I don't love all areas equally, they're all fun and interesting, or at least there's no area that I want to avoid like I do Blighttown (or even the Depths), Lost Izalith, Tomb of Giants (even the Catacombs), Crystal Caves (as short as it is, it still sucks), Black Gulch, Iron Passage... I look forward to most areas, and I think they actually get better as the game progresses, in stark contrast with DS1. The weapon upgrade system is simpler than DS1 (thank god...) but has more depth than Bloodborne. I think I like Weapon Arts more than I like the Power Stance. I also really like the story in DS3, in that it feels final even if the endings are almost the same as DS1. I feel like in DS1, both endings have a "Is this the good ending?" vibe where you don't know if linking the fire is going to work or have a positive outcome or if ending the age of fire will get better results. In DS3, choosing to link the fire feels a lot more like just another part of the endless cycle. There's no delusion; you're just doing your part to keep the machine going, the finality is in knowing that this time won't be different, you know what's going to happen, which is nothing, in the grand scheme of things. Choosing to end the age of Fire also feels more definitive in that you've seen, in the dark Firelink Shrine, what it'd mean to bring the age of Dark (although you really don't see much and it's kind of implied that cycle still keeps going regardless). Finally, I feel it implied that usurping the Fire is also the true coming of the age of Man/Dark, with a lot more finality than in DS1. Most of this is pure speculation, but I like DS3's story as the end of a trilogy.
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Jul 10, 2018 15:33
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CordlessPen posted:the covenants are seriously poo poo. "Fan service" is basically the appropriate summation of the negative aspects of Dark Souls 3 to me. Most of it's just little design things. I rolled my eyes in Demon Ruins at the ridiculous number of statues of Stray Demon and Taurus Demon copy-and-pasted around. In a similar situation in Dark Souls 1 there'd probably be a single statue and it'd be in a thematically appropriate configuration, whereas in Dark Souls 3 it's basically "REMEMBER THESE GUYS FROM DARK SOULS?" wallpaper. Ironically, I think they could have made it more successful by leaning a little bit further into the fan service on a larger scale. It's cool that DS3 takes place in the same region as DS1, just many generations later, so of course most of the familiar places are gone or unrecognizable, but I wish they'd kept it just a little more familiar. Farron Keep seems to be the New Londo area in Dark Souls 1 (given the presence of Dark Wraith Knights and the fact that the boss is the Abyss Watchers), but since there are no recognizable landmarks or geography, it just makes me think about Dark Souls 1 with no real payoff. It would be cool if the basic layout of the land was the same, but the structures and people had changed, so you could clearly draw a comparison between the worlds of Dark Souls 1 and Dark Souls 3.
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Jul 10, 2018 17:47
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KingSlime posted:On that note, what really disappointed me personally was the lack of any real momentum or development in the plot. I know that this is also extremely thematically on point but after three games, I was itching for some sort of progression. Some paradigm shift of sorts or major revelation or complete reversal of the order of things, idk. I was very irritated that, after all was said and done, Dark Souls 3 failed to meaningfully explain or expand on the primordial serpents and their role. They're the biggest mystery in the original game - Frampt's confusing allegiance, Kaathe's eagerness to usher in and serve what they claim is an age of "man" - that are vital to the narrative while also having no clear relationship to what's going on. Then DkS3 gives us statues of them and NPCs who serve Kaathe, only to... never actually go anywhere with any of it in the ending or DLC? I really don't think Dark Souls 2 or 3 is very well-written. Either of them might have been okay on their own, in that regard, but as sequels their stories are kinda useless and have a really lame "fanficcy" relationship to the lore of the original. EDIT: In a way I think I'm agreeing with Volte. Dark Souls 3 has the problem of being too much of a sequel to stand on its own merit, and not enough of one to provide satisfying expansion or closure to Dark Souls. It might've had a better story and better worldbuilding if it leaned away from or toward Dark Souls more; what's the opposite of a sweet spot? Baku fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Jul 10, 2018 |
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Jul 10, 2018 17:56
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Farron is supposed to have been built over a ruined Darkroot Garden or something, hence the mushroom men and Dusk’s stuff laying around. But if they had used similar map layouts to those of DS1, people would complain that they were rehashing poo poo, as we know from the fact that people did complain about the reuse of part of Anor Londo. It’s a lose-lose really and makes me feel that the DS sequels were always going to catch a lot of flak. Covenants should be more like gods in Dungeon Crawl imo. You pick one and you stick with it Or Else, and if you do the right things for that covenant you get some neat abilities and powers. And if you don’t stick with it, you get to find out what Or Else is. DS3’s swap system is nice from a usability perspective, but unfortunately most of the covenants are deathly boring and/or useless.
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Jul 10, 2018 17:58
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Reusing maps outright is a bit lazy (and Anor Londo III is just kind of a lazy fan-service area anyway), but did anyone complain about Oolacile and Darkroot Garden being recognizably the same place? That's the kind of stuff I mean. I don't want to run through all the same areas, but it would be at least cool to be able to say "hey, this is where I fought X in Dark Souls 1" or whatever. Also, New Londo and Darkroot are right next to each other, and both New Londo and Oolacile connect to the Abyss, so Farron being built on top of both of them is reasonable.
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Jul 10, 2018 18:07
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Volte posted:I kind of like them being low-impact swappable items in Dark Souls 3. Covenants in Dark Souls 1 are based around devoting yourself to a single one per playthrough (given that you lose progress in one by switching to another) which basically means I never end up caring about any of the covenants. Generally I just become a Sunbro for the gold phantom and never level it up because I never play with Faith. I've actually equipped and participated in all of the covenants I've found in Dark Souls 3, so even if the covenants themselves are less cool than Dark Souls 1, it makes finding a covenant shrine actually feel like I found something I might be able to use. Granted, I've never tried the DLC covenant, but it sounds like more of the same.
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Jul 10, 2018 19:58
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The last thing DS3 needs is PvE covenants that barely do anything. And it already has its Gravelords equivalent. It's called "Every Invasion Covenant that Uses an Orb and Spawns into a Gank Squad"
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Jul 10, 2018 21:07
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Returning since this seems to be the souls game with the highest population. What is the recommended dagger for a character with base wield stats and no int/faith investment? Still chaos?
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Jul 10, 2018 21:30
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