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appropriatemetaphor posted:Paradox knows people only buy DLC because it's pay-to-win so they have to make indian nations "not suck" and "be interesting" to sucker people into playing them and having a good time. Those bastards
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Jul 10, 2018 22:15
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appropriatemetaphor posted:Paradox knows people only buy DLC because it's pay-to-win so they have to make indian nations "not suck" and "be interesting" to sucker people into playing them and having a good time. Also all the changes to NIs are completely free I'll admit that the general power level for NI sets has been going up noticably since about MoH but that's because they've mostly been working outside Europe where nobody other than the Ottomans, Mughals and unified Japan actually had ideas worth half a poo poo. I'd be happy if they went through and did a general balance pass - in particular I don't think anyone should be getting more than 20% reduced core creation cost tops and increased hostile core creation cost needs to die forever - but these changes are a huge overall improvement.
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Jul 10, 2018 22:16
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appropriatemetaphor posted:Paradox knows people only buy DLC because it's pay-to-win so they have to make indian nations "not suck" and "be interesting" to sucker people into playing them and having a good time. RabidWeasel posted:Also all the changes to NIs are completely free RabidWeasel posted:I'll admit that the general power level for NI sets has been going up noticably since about MoH but that's because they've mostly been working outside Europe where nobody other than the Ottomans, Mughals and unified Japan actually had ideas worth half a poo poo.
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Jul 10, 2018 22:20
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Also it was historically one of the richest areas in the world and shouldnt be a pushover so I like the changes. Also militarily powerful states. There were a lot of mercenaries in India reaaaly loving good at guns. The British could swoop in because of a power vacuum left by the crumbling Mughals and delegating stuff to local lords. They didn't go in with an invading army to conquer all of India. That was waaay out of what the British force was able to do that the time. I am a bit miffed at people who as of late have been wanting back the "My 5k European Übermenschen should be able to kill 50k Indians" and claiming it is somewhat historical. Also I honestly don't understand people who are calling these changes pay to win 
Groogy fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Jul 10, 2018 |
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Jul 10, 2018 22:57
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Groogy posted:The British could swoop in because of a power vacuum left by the crumbling Mughals and delegating stuff to local lords. They didn't go in with an invading army to conquer all of India. That was waaay out of what the British force was able to do that the time. I am a bit miffed at people who as of late have been wanting back the "My 5k European Übermenschen should be able to kill 50k Indians" and claiming it is somewhat historical. A heady mix of people who are too dumb (or enraged at the very concept of DLC) to tell the difference between free and paid content, and people who are just racist and think that Asia is supposed to be there purely for Europeans to conquer rather than as an actual playable part of the game. At least the latter mostly have the decency to try to pretend that they're concerned about something else. If you point out to these people that actually significant European conquests in India weren't a thing until the late 18th century and therefore probably shouldn't be something which frequently happens in game they tend to get a bit pissy. This is legitimately one of the reasons why I will continue to lobby forever for the next EU game to stop some time in the mid 18th century before the Declaration of Independence, because then you don't even need to give a fig leaf to these shits. AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:They have balanced a few, I think the Ottomans went from 33% reduced Coring Cost to 20%. I'm not aware of any others that are over 20% off the top of my head, but I havent played in a few months so I may be rusty/forgetful. Mughals and India off the top of my head are 25%. But I'd honestly like to see CCR dropped across the board, I like these sets with 10-15%, it feels like a strong benefit but not "oh wow this is better than all my other ideas combined" territory. 20% should be like, Ottomans and Roman Empire only territory. RabidWeasel fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Jul 10, 2018 |
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Jul 10, 2018 23:05
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Remember in 1.0 when Prussia had like 25% discipline combined with +25% infantry combat ability in their national ideas? It was piss easy to get 150% discipline as them. My first game was as Prussia and at one point I was fighting coalitions that outnumbered me 10:1 and I just massacred them all. This was helped by how the AI had zero coordination back then and would suicide armies into you instead of gathering together and ganging up like they do now. Good times. So yeah, they've done some balancing over time. 
Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Jul 10, 2018 |
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Jul 10, 2018 23:14
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Groogy posted:Also I honestly don't understand people who are calling these changes pay to win Yeah like most people (I think?) play single player anyway, so if you want to "win" just play literally any big country. Always see the "lol pay to win" on the steam forums for some reason.
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Jul 10, 2018 23:15
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appropriatemetaphor posted:Yeah like most people (I think?) play single player anyway, so if you want to "win" just play literally any big country. Always see the "lol pay to win" on the steam forums for some reason. And in multiplayer everyone has access to the same expansion content anyway.
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Jul 10, 2018 23:17
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But even so... the changes are.... free.... we don't charge anything for them... Disqualifier: of course base game, but you get what I mean
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Jul 10, 2018 23:19
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Why would you need to pay to win when you can just open the console and winwars? Or.... maybe put NI in lootboxes, if you throw enough money at them and get really lucky you can get epic versions of ideas instead. Naturally they only last for one playthrough and you need to apply a new one when starting as another country. This box gives youuuuu... *drumroll* gold level naval ideas (+2%). Better luck next time.
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Jul 10, 2018 23:40
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No no no obviously we would do more of the Counter Strike version. You would get them permanently...... but they wear down by usage....
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Jul 10, 2018 23:44
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Í don't mind the Indians having good ideas so long as they just buff everyone. Power creep is best addressed by just constantly ramping up everyone's power, DBZ style Though I remain furious that the greatest of the Nordics, Iceland, still only has generics and the Faroe Islands arent even a formable (or a separate culture, despite them being completely different from the cursed mainlanders)
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Jul 10, 2018 23:51
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Make it a notification at the top of the screen so you can see it tick down every day. Should give people some incentive to get their thumbs out and not run the game at speed 5 too.
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Jul 10, 2018 23:51
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Deceitful Penguin posted:Í don't mind the Indians having good ideas so long as they just buff everyone. Power creep is best addressed by just constantly ramping up everyone's power, DBZ style At this point you could just go through every idea set without any army quality bonuses and give them 1 or 2 (depending on desired power level) of 10% morale 5% discipline 10% increased shock / fire dmg instead of total garbage worthless ideas like 10% TE and -10% stability cost and things would be moderately well evened out. The power creep is much less than people are making it out to be and the gap between the very best idea sets and the average random set is lower than it has ever been because the general quality has been going up for several patches. Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Remember in 1.0 when Prussia had like 25% discipline combined with +25% infantry combat ability in their national ideas? It was piss easy to get 150% discipline as them. My first game was as Prussia and at one point I was fighting coalitions that outnumbered me 10:1 and I just massacred them all. This was helped by how the AI had zero coordination back then and would suicide armies into you instead of gathering together and ganging up like they do now. Good times. That was Old Discipline which was literally just x% more damage dealt. New Discipline is x% more damage dealt and reduced damage taken but when it was introduced most sources of discipline were reduced by between 1/2 and 2/3 so it was overall a nerf (though it made stacking discipline better). RabidWeasel fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Jul 11, 2018 |
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Jul 11, 2018 00:12
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i'm a bit of the opinion that NIs should vary in quality significantly but at the same time the lovely ones should probably be stuff like +50% transport combat ability and not +5%
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Jul 11, 2018 00:28
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If we're talking NI adjustments, I'm still unreasonably annoyed that Japan gets double the ship durability bonus that Korea gets. Korea's warships being more sturdily built than the Japanese ones was straight up one of their more notable characteristics when the two went to war in this period. Japan getting a more prominent naval bonus than Korea in general is pretty backward; beating the Japanese navy is literally the only significant military accomplishment Korea had over the game's entire timeline.Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Remember in 1.0 when Prussia had like 25% discipline combined with +25% infantry combat ability in their national ideas? It was piss easy to get 150% discipline as them. My first game was as Prussia and at one point I was fighting coalitions that outnumbered me 10:1 and I just massacred them all. This was helped by how the AI had zero coordination back then and would suicide armies into you instead of gathering together and ganging up like they do now. Good times. What discipline did changed, to be fair, and when they changed it they halved the values in NIs across the board (although forgot to change Japan until MoH; 10% discipline from the get-go was pretty fun).
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Jul 11, 2018 01:19
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Koramei posted:If we're talking NI adjustments, I'm still unreasonably annoyed that Japan gets double the ship durability bonus that Korea gets. Korea's warships being more sturdily built than the Japanese ones was straight up one of their more notable characteristics when the two went to war in this period. Japan getting a more prominent naval bonus than Korea in general is pretty backward; beating the Japanese navy is literally the only significant military accomplishment Korea had over the game's entire timeline. Prussia's was 25% at release, 5% now. Quality ideas went from 15% to 5%. So more than half. You can still get up to like 125-130% nowadays but it takes a lot more effort than it used to. I don't think an army has ever in EU4's history been as strong as Prussia's was in 1.1, and you could get to that power level in like 1500. It was pretty ridiculous.
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Jul 11, 2018 01:28
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It's only 5% now because the Prussian government was added, it used to be more before that. And with the government bonuses at full you can take it up to 15% discipline, which gives you as much punch as 30% discipline did back in 1.0 IIRC. Before Prussian government they used to get 7.5% though as I remember, so I guess they did think it was too OP, like you were saying.
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Jul 11, 2018 01:34
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RabidWeasel posted:New dev diary. Lots of formables in India with some good NI sets. No longer will you have the 'fun' of having gently caress all military bonuses unless you want to play as Nepal. This all sounds rad as hell!
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Jul 11, 2018 01:57
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Groogy posted:But even so... the changes are.... free.... we don't charge anything for them... Apparently this is up for dispute  "Excuse me, but I respectfully disagree with the assertment that this will be included free in a patch."
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Jul 11, 2018 02:09
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maybe they want to pay for it
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Jul 11, 2018 02:14
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Apparently this is up for dispute I consider the Paradox forums illegitimate until I can Disrespectfully Disagree with someone.
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Jul 11, 2018 02:23
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The paradox devs just come here whenever they want some disrespectful disagreement
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Jul 11, 2018 02:33
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What exactly are the paid features of the DLC, again?
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Jul 11, 2018 02:36
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Mantis42 posted:What exactly are the paid features of the DLC, again? Indian mission trees, estates and unique government forms, the entire government reform system apparently (which is kinda bleh since the government system will be simplified for non-buyers, right?), the new trade company system, and a bunch of misc stuff like enhanced rebel suppression, using colonists to develop provinces, scornful insults, etc.
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Jul 11, 2018 02:42
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:which is kinda bleh since the government system will be simplified for non-buyers, right? right now it's just a series of modifiers, what's there to simplify really
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Jul 11, 2018 02:49
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Well, the government reform system changes things so you just have generic monarchy, theocratic, or republic governments that further differentiate themselves through reforms, right? Hopefully for people who don't buy the expansion, they just keep the current system as-is.
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Jul 11, 2018 02:52
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The only thing that bothers me about NIs is the continued of existence of hostile core cost "bonuses".
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Jul 11, 2018 06:39
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Government reforms will work about the same as they did before Dharma for non-Dharma owners Under the hood it is still the same system, they just don't have the same amount of content essentially. Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Apparently this is up for dispute  e: by balders sweaty balls. I haven't read that thread since yesterday. Yes we are totally ruining multiplayer so we can cater to the humongous market share we have in India smdh Groogy fucked around with this message at 07:59 on Jul 11, 2018 |
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Jul 11, 2018 07:35
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RabidWeasel posted:Mughals and India off the top of my head are 25%. But I'd honestly like to see CCR dropped across the board, I like these sets with 10-15%, it feels like a strong benefit but not "oh wow this is better than all my other ideas combined" territory. 20% should be like, Ottomans and Roman Empire only territory. Dropping hostile core creation at the same time and maybe that'd work. Not sure if there's still a penalty that increases with the amount of your provinces but I think that one's still in too. Tahirovic fucked around with this message at 11:00 on Jul 11, 2018 |
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Jul 11, 2018 10:53
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Groogy posted:Government reforms will work about the same as they did before Dharma for non-Dharma owners All good, but as i asked a page ago: StealthArcher posted:Incidentally, as a question to any paradox devs, with Dharma's government changes, would it be feasible to add a new type of government alongside the Rep/Mon/Theo trifecta? Or maybe just steal Horde unity and do something with that I guess, just wondering how flexible it'll be for modding. Not to be a rudeass tho.
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Jul 11, 2018 15:20
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Yes
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Jul 11, 2018 15:40
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Groogy posted:Yes Fuckin sweet. Incidentally, want a nation of your own design in somewhere?
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Jul 11, 2018 15:49
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Now I'm not entirely following? But yeah the system is super moddable. For instance States General is a monarchy reform, but it adds 4 term duration to your government. Which just makes the entire election system magically hook in. There's also custom_attribute on them which let's you essentially script flags on them. Though these flags will be localized in the breakdown of the reform so if you have events tied to your government you can use that and in the description explain "This reform will give you scandal events" Groogy fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Jul 11, 2018 |
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Jul 11, 2018 16:17
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StealthArcher posted:Incidentally, want a nation of your own design in somewhere? Not to be an rear end in a top hat but casually dropping in an implied mention of your mod as though an actual dev for the game should be both intimately familiar with your personal project and flattered at the possibility to be included in it despite it not even being out yet is maybe a tad lacking in awareness, dude.
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Jul 11, 2018 16:40
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RabidWeasel posted:If you point out to these people that actually significant European conquests in India weren't a thing until the late 18th century and therefore probably shouldn't be something which frequently happens in game they tend to get a bit pissy. The game should end in 1789, and March of the Eagles 2 should cover the Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars.
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Jul 11, 2018 16:54
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White Coke posted:The game should end in 1789, and March of the Eagles 2 should cover the Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars. I understand the “why” (not that I agree with it, in fact I don’t) but from the very first step, ie a business perspective, I don’t see this happening.
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Jul 11, 2018 17:08
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I am nothing if not occasionally stunningly lacking in awareness. Sorry for being an a bit of an rear end Groogs, but very much thanks for the rundown.
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Jul 11, 2018 23:02
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Jedi Knight Luigi posted:I understand the “why” (not that I agree with it, in fact I don’t) but from the very first step, ie a business perspective, I don’t see this happening. Very few people play to the end anyway and this would give a good hook for another series. What is your “business perspective” objection.
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Jul 12, 2018 00:05
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Senor Dog posted:Very few people play to the end anyway and this would give a good hook for another series. What is your “business perspective” objection. The community would be outraged by a shrunken timeline. In my opinion, having the early 19th century included adds a nice sort of epilogue to the game, so I'd be sad to see it go.
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Jul 12, 2018 01:15
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