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I Am Just a Box posted:New Wave Requiem has very little hard rules content. Five pregen characters, a prewritten adventure with one NPC statblock and five more quick-character NPC writeups, two new Devotions, one alternate power for Auspex ●●●, two brief drug writeups, and four rules hacks/miscellaneous mechanics. Thank you for this. Yes, New Wave was the awesome setting for the 1980s, and I don't know why Onyx Path hasn't released more content using that setting given how well it was received. Thinking about setting up a campaign (chronicle?) set in 1984 Manhattan.
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Jul 11, 2018 16:44
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Apparently the next step was Werewolf as The Warriors, but came out more Bowery Dogs.
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Jul 11, 2018 17:40
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:wrong, Join The Seers, save the world
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Jul 11, 2018 17:54
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lol at anyone who joins the Seers thinking they're going to do any kind of good work, rather than getting paid well for maintaining an evil system That's how you become an unpaid intern keeping the Bound imprisoned for decades before dying an unpleasant death, while upper management snorts human souls off of orichalcum knives
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Jul 11, 2018 17:59
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Do the Orders offer a steady salary? Or is access to the learning opportunities and connections enough? Maybe a stipend and more opportunities if you hold an office? While I appreciate they aren't as evil as the Seers, if the other Orders are promising new recruits they're about doing Good they're likely crossing their fingers behind their back while doing so. It doesn't seem nearly that simple. EDIT: They probably do grants a lot. Like if someone has a good idea about something and the local Order big bodies support it they'll throw you some start up cash. nofather fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Jul 11, 2018 |
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Jul 11, 2018 18:12
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nofather posted:Do the Orders offer a steady salary? Or is access to the learning opportunities and connections enough? Maybe a stipend and more opportunities if you hold an office? I suspect most Mages are not primarily cash motivated, anyway.
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Jul 11, 2018 18:16
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None of y'all are Liesmith and none of y'all are good at pretending to be Liesmith.
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Jul 11, 2018 18:17
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TBH I don't understand what stops mages from destroying the global economy. One isolated mage with sufficient dots in Matter could easily create mountains of Gold and Currency.
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Jul 11, 2018 18:20
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Those other mages that literally worshipThe Global Economy no doubt murk them far before it is a noticable issue.
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Jul 11, 2018 18:22
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AnEdgelord posted:TBH I don't understand what stops mages from destroying the global economy. One isolated mage with sufficient dots in Matter could easily create mountains of Gold and Currency. Didn't someone try to do that in Ars Magica, destroy the economy, and then decide the issue was the that gold was somehow cursed and spend ages trying to dispose of it properly or something?
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Jul 11, 2018 18:26
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It seems like you could. But what would be the reason to? The Chancellor isn't just about hard currency, but the commoditization of things. So if you get rid of money and people just trade in jars of bees or land deeds or calorie counts the ministry is fine. Money is just, presumably, easier to control, especially when you have a global system going on. Get rid of money and now suddenly Matter mages lose some versatility but Life mages gain some, because they can just make the bees get into the jars. You'd probably get a lot of pushback from the Orders and Seers and assorted entities invested in the system. It seems like it could fit for a good story, whether your characters did it or are facing the repercussions of it happening.
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Jul 11, 2018 18:31
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AnEdgelord posted:TBH I don't understand what stops mages from destroying the global economy. One isolated mage with sufficient dots in Matter could easily create mountains of Gold and Currency.
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Jul 11, 2018 18:35
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Mr. Maltose posted:Those other mages that literally worshipThe Global Economy no doubt murk them far before it is a noticable issue. They must be super busy then because that would probably be the first thing anyone tries to do with their newfound magic powers.
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Jul 11, 2018 18:36
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AnEdgelord posted:They must be super busy then because that would probably be the first thing anyone tries to do with their newfound magic powers. If every single wizard created their weight in gold, it would be a blip in the world economy. If anything it would simplify tracking new mages. Maybe this is the real purpose of all those cash for gold outlets.
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Jul 11, 2018 18:49
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We use cash for silver places to get rid of silver. Presumably in some games people use it to get silver.
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Jul 11, 2018 18:51
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Night10194 posted:Didn't someone try to do that in Ars Magica, destroy the economy, and then decide the issue was the that gold was somehow cursed and spend ages trying to dispose of it properly or something? Not quite. House Tremere turned the entire inside of a mountain to gold, ruined the local economy, and then hunted down all the gold and put it back in the mountain, having discovered the concept of economics.
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Jul 11, 2018 18:51
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So. https://www.facebook.com/whitewolfpublishing/photos/a.10152207395170465.1073741826.141058250464/10156172553730465/?type=3&theater
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Jul 11, 2018 18:54
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Mors Rattus posted:Not quite. House Tremere turned the entire inside of a mountain to gold, ruined the local economy, and then hunted down all the gold and put it back in the mountain, having discovered the concept of economics. Ars Magica always sounds so much more fun than Mage.
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Jul 11, 2018 18:56
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Mr. Maltose posted:Those other mages that literally worshipThe Global Economy no doubt murk them far before it is a noticable issue. If the Seers, don't get you, the Guardians of the Veil will. If neither order gets you, the hunters will show up, because producing vast amounts of gold out of nowhere is like putting up a huge neon sign that says, "I AM A WITCH, PLEASE BURN ME AT THE STAKE."
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Jul 11, 2018 18:57
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Nessus posted:I doubt most mages sit down and go “yes, I will bring down capitalism AND I will do it by spamming Create Gold.” They don't sit down and do that instead they sit down and think "I want to live in the lap of luxury for the rest of my natural (or possibly unnatural) life". I imagine it does make them easier to track though.
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Jul 11, 2018 18:58
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Making lots of money individually is not going to crash the economy, and most Mages are obsessed with mysteries other than The Mystery of Where Do I Get Cash Money. Also, the Orders do indeed offer salaries- you can get Resources dots from your Status dots in an Order. That's not going to let you live like a king, but, it's enough for most PCs, and that assumes you don't have any magical means of producing what you need as well. The Seers get dots in Luxury, the Obscene Wealth merit, iirc, which is strictly superior for getting paid. The Orders have various ideologies about magic, most of which are pretty decent and which also contain some bizarre cult precepts in service to their Gnostic war against the Lie. The Seer ideology is 'the Exarchs won, and we get paid to be the wardens of humanity's prison.' One of my favorite things about Mage is all the terrible mistakes and awful sorcery done in the name of a good cause, and also the fact that selling out to the status quo is the villain splat. E: Ars Magicka is great for 'wizards like in D&D but the setting expects you to actually push the limits and wreck society by accident, NPCs do it all the time' but that's fundamentally not what Mage is about. It's what the Mysterium would like the universe to be, though. Joe Slowboat fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Jul 11, 2018 |
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Jul 11, 2018 18:59
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Night10194 posted:Ars Magica always sounds so much more fun than Mage. Of course I think AM also assumes mages can support themselves trivially.
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Jul 11, 2018 18:59
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Magnusth posted:So. I went into the comments gently caress
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Jul 11, 2018 18:59
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oh, good, white wolf is going to hold a pep rally and declare all issues solved
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Jul 11, 2018 19:04
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Mors Rattus posted:oh, good, white wolf is going to hold a pep rally and declare all issues solved https://blog.white-wolf.com/2017/02/17/a-howl-for-our-bloody-writer-artists/ posted:Regarding the recent accusations made against our company: White Wolf was aware of and investigated the previous accusations against us before starting work on the V5 line. Fortunately, these accusations all pertained to alleged online behavior: each accusation is connected to an online discussion, and the digital records of these discussions can be located and reviewed. White Wolf’s investigation concluded that the accusations are false, and that we did not engage in the alleged behavior. We have full faith in ourselves and are excited to see the great work with the World of Darkness spread!
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Jul 11, 2018 19:07
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DSPaul posted:If the Seers, don't get you, the Guardians of the Veil will. If neither order gets you, the hunters will show up, because producing vast amounts of gold out of nowhere is like putting up a huge neon sign that says, "I AM A WITCH, PLEASE BURN ME AT THE STAKE." It'd be fun to pick out which Hunter Contracts would twig the most to it. Task Force Valkyrie, for starters. The IRS might have a thing to say.
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Jul 11, 2018 19:09
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Dawgstar posted:It'd be fun to pick out which Hunter Contracts would twig the most to it. Task Force Valkyrie, for starters. The IRS might have a thing to say. Barrett Commission would be my first guess in the USA.
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Jul 11, 2018 19:10
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Dawgstar posted:It'd be fun to pick out which Hunter Contracts would twig the most to it. Task Force Valkyrie, for starters. The IRS might have a thing to say. Like Yudkowsky did.
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Jul 11, 2018 19:13
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Nessus posted:Probably the best way to do it would be to use Mind to solicit donations into a nonprofit for some nebulous goal that pays you fat stacks. Cloud Infinite checks out. One thing they explicitly did was demo an "AI" mocked up by binding a ghost into a computer, to get investors.
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Jul 11, 2018 19:17
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AnEdgelord posted:TBH I don't understand what stops mages from destroying the global economy. One isolated mage with sufficient dots in Matter could easily create mountains of Gold and Currency. One of the ten beings that controls the Chronicles of Darkness' multiverse is Capitalism. The Exarchs don't act against individual mages unless one somehow becomes a threat, at which point their response is apocalyptically brutal and comes without warning. He'd get halfway through the first foothill before an avatar of the Chancellor stepped on him.
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Jul 11, 2018 19:31
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Concept: construct an elaborate magical trap, huge spells in waiting of various kinds, then have your Moros start the gold production to bait Ochema of the Chancellor into appearing so you can hit them with everything you've got for the express purpose of acquiring an incredibly potent sympathetic yantra to oppose the Chancellor with. I am going to put a fragment of the God Capitalism in a box and use it for a power source to turn billionaires into pillars of salt, this is Praxis.
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Jul 11, 2018 20:24
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:wrong, Join The Seers, save the world Reach heaven through violence. Join the Silver Ladder. Nessus posted:I doubt most mages sit down and go “yes, I will bring down capitalism AND I will do it by spamming Create Gold.” My favorite mage PC continues to be the banker Mastigos that got a bug up his rear end and decided he was going to destroy the Astral manifestation of Capitalism. It did not end well but holy poo poo was it a fun ride. citybeatnik fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Jul 11, 2018 |
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Jul 11, 2018 20:32
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Joe Slowboat posted:Concept: construct an elaborate magical trap, huge spells in waiting of various kinds, then have your Moros start the gold production to bait Ochema of the Chancellor into appearing so you can hit them with everything you've got for the express purpose of acquiring an incredibly potent sympathetic yantra to oppose the Chancellor with.  As much as I want some added material on high rank entities I fully appreciate that, put down on paper, these things always seem a lot weaker and more vulnerable than they should be.
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Jul 11, 2018 21:12
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Last time I remember reading the ochemata rules for 1e, they were nigh-unstoppable, what with having spirit-size dicepools and the ability to just poo poo spells out at will.
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Jul 11, 2018 21:16
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Mors Rattus posted:Last time I remember reading the ochemata rules for 1e, they were nigh-unstoppable, what with having spirit-size dicepools and the ability to just poo poo spells out at will. They're fairly horrible in 2e - Supernal Entities which don't fall apart away from a summoning circle, are allowed to go up to archmage dots of Arcana, that on top of spellcasting get the rote factor on all mundane dice rolls, can shapeshift into anything from size 1 to 20, make a portal to anywhere, and inflict the Sick Tilt on anyone seeing them in Mage Sight. Dave Brookshaw fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Jul 11, 2018 |
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Jul 11, 2018 21:28
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They had that wonderful sidebar that said "If you use this as a monster, the characters will just die."
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Jul 11, 2018 21:28
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I mean I imagine pretty much all mages use magic to deal with their mundane concerns except for the wisest of them, but there's not really any need to turn yourself into a quadrillionaire. I'm sure somebody, in the great scheme of all of magical history has either done exactly that or at least attempted to, but they'd probably be indistinguishable from any other businessman or celebrity. For everybody else money is kind of a nonissue when you can control minds or just fabricate the things you need directly from thin air. I would think even the Pentacle would frown on that sort of thing and I can't imagine the Guardians are thrilled at the idea of somebody turning a bunch of peas into a Scrooge McDuck money vault. That's the kind of thing that creates attention.
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Jul 11, 2018 21:42
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Do the Guardians actually care about situations where you're a powerful person who obviously has some kind of supernatural powers to anybody who cares to look into it, but you don't actually let anybody see you using them? It seems like that would lead to a lot of situations where they obsessively track down the shadowy power broker who controls the city with an iron fist, only to end up with "false alarm, boys, it turns out she's just another vampire."
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Jul 11, 2018 22:02
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I'm pretty sure I've played this Mage game...
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Jul 11, 2018 22:10
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Rand Brittain posted:Do the Guardians actually care about situations where you're a powerful person who obviously has some kind of supernatural powers to anybody who cares to look into it, but you don't actually let anybody see you using them? It seems like that would lead to a lot of situations where they obsessively track down the shadowy power broker who controls the city with an iron fist, only to end up with "false alarm, boys, it turns out she's just another vampire." I mean if you manage to use magic to turn yourself into a grillionaire without anybody noticing or being an active member of the Consilium, than I guess you kind of beat the system already. If we're assuming some dude working in secret away from the prying eyes of the Guardians that nobody knows about, they could probably get away with it for a long time. I mean it seems to me the real danger in that case if that you are bringing too much attention to the magical world incidentally. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with making up money or gold from whole cloth if nobody sees you do it - but if you make enough of it, somebody is going to want to know what you do for a living or where your mine is or why you aren't paying taxes. Which means you'll need more magic to cover it up. I would think the Guardians would be concerned about the possibility of that blowing up if it wasn't carefully managed. "Person with no training and no connection to an Order who teaches themselves enough magic to disrupt the economy" actually sounds like a decent plot hook and moral dilemma.
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Jul 11, 2018 22:10
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