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starkebn posted:why is it necessary for someone to stand for them to be seen as respectful? For the same reason I prefer to take a union vote as a raise of hands than a secret ballot.
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Jul 11, 2018 11:05
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JBP posted:For the same reason I prefer to take a union vote as a raise of hands than a secret ballot. Peer pressure?
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Jul 11, 2018 11:07
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bell jar posted:EVERY MORNING I WAKE UP AND OPEN PALM SLAM A SOLICITOR INTO THE SLOT. ITS MY LEARNED FRIEND AND RIGHT THEN AND THERE I START DOING THE BOWS ALONGSIDE WITH THE MAIN CHARACTER, JUDGE. I BOW WHEN I LEAVE AND I BOW WHEN I LEAVE HARD. MAKIN WHOOSHING SOUNDS WHEN I STAND BEFORE THE JUDGE OR EVEN WHEN I MESS UP LEAVING THE COURT. NOT MANY CAN SAY THEY ESCAPED THE STATES MOST IMPORTANT RITUALS. I CAN. I SAY IT AND I SAY IT OUTLOUD EVERYDAY TO PEOPLE IN MY COLLEGE CLASS AND ALL THEY DO IS PROVE PEOPLE IN COLLEGE CLASS CAN STILL BE IMMATURE JEKRS. AND IVE LEARNED ALL THE RITUALS AND IVE LEARNED HOW TO MAKE MYSELF AND MY LEARNED FRIENDS LESS LONELY BY BOWING AT EM ALL. 2 HOURS INCLUDING WIND DOWN EVERY MORNIng I dunno, I wasn't so hot on the Ace Attorney movie
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Jul 11, 2018 11:07
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as long as you're not being a gallah and actively disrupting proceedings why do you have to prove your respect in any way?
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Jul 11, 2018 11:08
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bell jar posted:Peer pressure? Visible participation makes people feel good and can reinforce the importance of whatever it is they're doing, peer pressure if it means getting fence sitters over the line to actually take some action and do something for once. If you know it's likely a near unanimous vote it also demonstrates power and unity. e: like this is a super different situation, but I'm always down to talk about organising theory and enabling leaders/leading people forever if that's the topic Also edited me post BC I forgot something JBP fucked around with this message at 11:28 on Jul 11, 2018 |
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Jul 11, 2018 11:09
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I understand how the judge feels, people don't stand for me when I step on the court, because they know if they do I'll dunk all over them and they'll end up on a poster
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Jul 11, 2018 11:33
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The mere fact that a law was made specifically to punish people in a court for not standing, seems to me at least, a little odd. How ever did the law cope without this vital protection? Were the halls of justice unaware for a millenia that contempt of court was great but missing one tiny detail? Then there's the trifling fact that the only conviction I can find under that law by googling is a Muslim woman. But not just any Muslim woman, oh no. Unanimously in every single headline it is a Muslim woman who is the Wife Of A Terrorist. drat right there's contempt of court, there should be. The law doesn't automatically get credit for being the law. It has to be tested for fairness all the time and doesn't just get to be "respected" by some arcane ritual where everyone pretends to be respectful. That a law like this has to be applied rather points out the problem, does it not? I don't blame lawyers for defending it, after all, they wear funny hats and clothes and do weird disconnected things along with the lawyery stuff, they can't be expected to see what a non-lawyer sees. But if you have to convict someone for not standing up, I'd say you've got a bigger problem than just respect, and you certainly are not getting it from the general population who might be wise enough to stand but still resent having to.
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Jul 11, 2018 11:43
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Jury nullification is pretty rude
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Jul 11, 2018 11:46
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ewe2 posted:The mere fact that a law was made specifically to punish people in a court for not standing, seems to me at least, a little odd. How ever did the law cope without this vital protection? Were the halls of justice unaware for a millenia that contempt of court was great but missing one tiny detail? Pretty sure it used to just be contempt of court at the discretion of the magistrate/judge/justice, and the law was specifically written by politicians working for Laura Norder to force action and penalties out of judges who were being far too lenient, same vein as mandatory minimums. e: It was specifically enacted by neocons who were 'were incensed by Mr al-Ahmadza’s conduct' and equally incensed that the trial judge wasn't making a huge deal about it and charging him with contempt over and over again and instead let the murder trial continue without having that bias inserted into it, and ignored the NSW Attorney General ordering him to do it, so they wrote a law forcing judges to do it. Convicting someone of contempt for showing contempt towards the court by not standing up is good, adding the new law forcing judges and punishments over the top because a Muslim convicted of murder wasn't also charged with contempt just to rub it in is bad. NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 12:28 on Jul 11, 2018 |
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Jul 11, 2018 12:10
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NTRabbit posted:Pretty sure it used to just be contempt of court at the discretion of the magistrate/judge/justice, and the law was specifically written by politicians working for Laura Norder to force action and penalties out of judges who were being far too lenient, same vein as mandatory minimums. I assumed it was this and 
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Jul 11, 2018 12:32
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there's no such thing as being too lenient hth
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Jul 11, 2018 12:34
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NTRabbit posted:Convicting someone of contempt for showing contempt towards the court by not standing up is good, adding the new law forcing judges and punishments over the top because a Muslim convicted of murder wasn't also charged with contempt just to rub it in is bad. This is an extremely bizarre take, to me You agree with the letter, intent and outcome of the law but dislike it because as far as I can tell you want it to be even more arbitrarily applied and entirely dependant on the relative biases of the judge involved
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Jul 11, 2018 12:55
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BBJoey posted:This is an extremely bizarre take, to me How is that bizarre? The opposite of that means supporting mandatory minimums, and other methods used by politicians to force judges to abandon discretion in favour of dogmatic ideology.
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Jul 11, 2018 13:01
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Yeah it's the same dumb poo poo Herald Sun readers write in about re mandatory deportation and mandatory life for poo poo like theft.
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Jul 11, 2018 13:02
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Whitlam posted:Lawyers don't wear wigs (in some courts) and call each other "my learned friend" for funsies, it's because it reinforces the serious and mutually respectful nature of proceedings. hahahaha
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Jul 11, 2018 13:22
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The issue isn’t the severity of the punishment, but that not standing is a crime in the first place. My understanding is that mandatory minimums remove judicial discretion in sentencing, not in whether a person is brought to trial in the first place.
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Jul 11, 2018 13:23
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it’s actually because they’re hired guns with no personal stake in the outcome, and today’s opposing party is tomorrow’s client law students follow closely on the heels of lnp politicians on the dunning-kruger scale
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Jul 11, 2018 13:25
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I honestly can’t fathom having any significant contact with the court system and then thinking “this is so great disrespecting it should be criminalised” as opposed to demolishing it and starting over
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Jul 11, 2018 13:33
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Birdstrike posted:I honestly can’t fathom having any significant contact with the court system and then thinking “this is so great disrespecting it should be criminalised” as opposed to demolishing it and starting over Eh criminal contempt is there to stop people throwing spanners into the thing and making it worse, it should be up to the judge. I'm sure starting fresh would be a good thing, but I wonder what impact revamping courts would have consider the new system would open the doors and have to start stuffing poors into publicly acceptable solutions again.
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Jul 11, 2018 13:37
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Birdstrike posted:I honestly can’t fathom having any significant contact with the court system and then thinking “this is so great disrespecting it should be criminalised” as opposed to demolishing it and starting over I don't think it's great, I just think you have to respect the institution and the rules. If we razed it to the ground and implemented a better system, I'd still say contempt of court and procedural rules are good and we should respect whatever new rules were in place too.
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Jul 11, 2018 13:55
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Whitlam posted:I don't think it's great, I just think you have to respect the institution and the rules. If we razed it to the ground and implemented a better system, I'd still say contempt of court and procedural rules are good and we should respect whatever new rules were in place too. oh my god how did you pass jurisprudence?
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Jul 11, 2018 14:06
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Austin’s “law is the command of a sovereign backed by a sanction” is wrong and a bad way to run a legal system
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Jul 11, 2018 14:07
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Only rich people should get to behave as though they are above the law The courts are no more worthy of respect than the cops are. gently caress every single stupid-rear end tradition that we maintain to put an orderly, glossy face over the fact that ex-cop conservative judges hand out section 10s like candy to the right sort of people but allow Aboriginal people to be the most incarcerated minority on the planet by a huge margin. It's the same thing as table manners guides forbidding elbows on the table and specifying the exact order of salad forks - it separates Those Who Understand from Those Who Do Not and ensures that Those Who Do Not are kept in their place. Unfortunately sometimes Those Who Do Not sometimes rise above their station and dare to entertain the idea that this old-rear end conservative who built enough political connections and managed to keep their scandals hidden enough over an illustrious career of shaking down Koori kids for weed might not be inherently worthy of their grovelling deference.
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Jul 11, 2018 14:11
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Waaaah the Christians are out to get me
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in court I use my phone even though the signs say not to. send me to gaol JBP (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 11, 2018 14:13
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fun fact one of the things I've heard a judge go off about vis-a-vis authority (not looking them directly in the eyes when they're speaking to you) is a thing that is an explicit sign of respect in a number of Aboriginal cultures
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Jul 11, 2018 14:16
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What for, who cares, I'm not a judge. I use my phone on the rare occassion I go to a court and it is quiet, close to invisible fun. The specific example was her refusing to stand as a statement repeatedly after being put on notice over it while her husband stood trial for a terrible crime. That's contemptuous enough to warrant copping it imo
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Jul 11, 2018 14:16
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If I had it my way we'd never go to jail and eat ice cream together happily forever 
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Jul 11, 2018 14:25
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Whitlam posted:Tl;dr: standing in court matters because of what it and the court represents, and having consequences for saying "gently caress you" to the court is good. Thanks for this answer. JBP posted:If I had it my way we'd never go to jail and eat ice cream together happily forever I'm all in on peace ice cream.
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Jul 11, 2018 14:51
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JBP posted:If I had it my way we'd never go to jail and eat ice cream together happily forever I look forward to the inevitable 7 page flame war about what the best flavour for peace ice cream is.
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Jul 11, 2018 15:02
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Whitlam posted:I look forward to the inevitable 7 page flame war about what the best flavour for peace ice cream is. I think you'll find that #allflavoursmatter
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Jul 11, 2018 15:35
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Whitlam posted:I look forward to the inevitable 7 page flame war about what the best flavour for peace ice cream is. 
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Jul 11, 2018 18:47
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Some jokers in the army
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Jul 11, 2018 19:28
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http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-12/sydney-compliance-blitz-catches-cheap-eats-businesses/9982372quote:A compliance blitz of a popular "cheap eats" precinct in Sydney has found 70 per cent of businesses were in breach of workplace laws.
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Jul 11, 2018 22:11
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My first car was a stick
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Quantum Mechanic posted:fun fact one of the things I've heard a judge go off about vis-a-vis authority (not looking them directly in the eyes when they're speaking to you) is a thing that is an explicit sign of respect in a number of Aboriginal cultures This entire thing smacks of intolerance to other cultures (would it be okay for her not to stand if her husband wasn't johnny al-qaeda?) and this is a perfect example of it
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Jul 11, 2018 22:26
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Whitlam posted:Tl;dr: standing in court matters because of what it and the court represents, and having consequences for saying "gently caress you" to the court is good. My friend, I think you will find a lot of the tradition of the court also comes from making aspects of it inaccessible to the layperson in order to maintain specialization and control. A good example is the pre-1900’s universities having a monopoly on “knowledge”, and where going through this system allowed you to be qualified to both teach and arbitrate who else can get a degree. This tradition kind of lives.
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Jul 11, 2018 22:45
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7 30 re port http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-11/fortnite-is-addiction-really-a-thing/9981528
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Jul 11, 2018 23:11
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Donald Trump is right to argue America's traditional allies, including Australia, have been "freeloading" off the US for too long, former prime minister Tony Abbott has said in a speech favourably comparing Trump to his "moralising" predecessor Barack Obama. In an address to the conservative Heritage Foundation think tank on Wednesday, Abbott praised Trump's approach on climate change, foreign policy and immigration - including his promise to build a wall on the Mexican border, which he said could mirror Australia's successful efforts to stop asylum seeker boats from reaching the country. But Abbott said Trump's isolationist tendencies and the rise of China mean Australia must become more self-reliant and dramatically increase its military spending in case the country is attacked by a hostile neighbour. Abbott's speech coincided with Trump's visit to Europe in which he has berated America's NATO allies for failing to spend enough on defence and accused Germany of being "captive" to Russia. "If America spends three per cent plus of the world's biggest GDP on its own forces, and the rest of the western world scarcely two per cent, it's hard to dispute Trump's view that most of us have been keeping safe on the cheap," Abbott said. "It's little wonder that he's tired of so-called allies who give sermons from the sidelines while America keeps them safe. The truth is that the rest of the world needs America more than America needs us." Abbott said the Australian government will have to increase military spending above the current level of 2 per cent of gross domestic product, expand its Navy and Air Force, and be prepared to shoot down missiles from adversaries such as North Korea in coming years. "America can't be expected to fight harder for its Australian ally than we would be prepared to fight for ourselves or to do more for Australia than we would already do for ourselves," he said. "Our armed forces need to be more capable of operating independently, even against a substantial adversary, because that is what a truly sovereign nation must be prepared to do. "What Trump is making clear to us and to others is what should always have been screamingly obvious: that our nation's safety now rests in our own hands far more than anyone else's." Abbott said the Turnbull government should have followed Trump's lead by moving the Australian embassy in Israel to Jerusalem, conducting freedom-of-navigation exercises in the South China Sea and taking a more active military involvement in the Middle East.
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Jul 11, 2018 23:13
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Meet Australia's professional full-time part-timers Australia is increasingly working part-time, full-time, as the number of professionals working two jobs surges. Secondary jobs, historically the domain of retail and services workers, have jumped by 30 per cent among professionals since 2010, with architects, accountants, computer designers and university researchers taking on an extra position. New figures from the Australian Bureau of Statistics released on Tuesday show more than 1.1 million employees now work in the professional, scientific and technical services sector - making it the fourth largest industry in the economy, behind healthcare, retail and accommodation and food services. More than 70,000 of those workers are now working two jobs, up from 54,000 in 2010, a 30 per cent jump compared to 22 per cent for all jobs in the sector. Population growth was 12 per cent over the same period of time. Among them is 27-year-old Sydney architect Vanessa Yu who also runs her own baking business. “Architecture is a project-based career and not a 9 to 5 job so depending on deadlines, it is hard to predict your working hours," she said. "I guess the most stressful part is knowing you have a cake order to fulfil and regardless of how little sleep you get it must be finished." Ms Yu said she believed more flexible work spaces were contributing to the trend. “There's hot-desking and many employees work from home these days," she said. "Whilst this is not the case for myself, I can see why people are starting to pursue more than one job." The growth in secondary jobs has not just been confined to professionals. The economy experienced its strongest secondary jobs surge since June 2014 last year - driving the number of people with two jobs to 891,000, up from 779,000 in 2010.  More than 50,000 were added between March and September 2017 alone, according to Tuesday's figures, which for the first time showed the volatile growth in secondary jobs by industry on a quarterly basis. "This means we can gauge the total hours worked and income across multiple jobs - not just people’s main job," said ABS chief economist Bruce Hockman. The gains have been led by administration, food services and healthcare, but none of those industries have enjoyed much of a pay rise because of it. Average incomes for accommodation and food services workers have actually gone backwards since 2010, while transport and postal workers have barely kept up. Australians got paid $250 billion in the three months to September, up from $190 billion in the same quarter in 2010. Of those, self-employed workers dropped slightly from 10 per cent to 9 per cent of the total labour bill. Professor Paula McDonald of the QUT Business School said the data reflects a common trend where people are holding down two jobs to make ends meet. “There is a rising trend of people who would like to work more hours than they can access,” Professor McDonald said. “Whilst we hear a lot about unemployment, the real problem in the labour market is underemployment.” Professor McDonald said because a rising portion of the labour force had little confidence of job stability, “workers might never have assurance as to where their next mortgage repayment or rental payment is coming from". One of them is 23-year-old Jarred Webb. The concrete company labourer and massage therapist is good with his hands. “As I finished my degree in massage therapy, I tried to get into the massage industry but found [that] I needed to build up a client base, which takes a lot of time,” said Mr Webb. “I’d love to be working [just] one full-time job,” said the Rowville resident in Melbourne's south-east. “It’s just that I can’t afford to not work both jobs.” Maintaining two part-time jobs - to earn a total income of about $33,000 - while attempting to build a massage client base for his own business, Jarred’s Remedial Massage, has been challenging. “Over the next six months, I think it’s unlikely to change.” Lutwyche resident May Walker, 22, is also anxious about the future, she spends six or even seven days a week either working or studying. The Brisbane graphic design student says some days she’s out of bed at at 6.30am and not home until after 10pm that night. A pattern that could continue as professionals increasingly take on multiple jobs. “I’m working to make ends meet, with the cost of living in Brisbane and to be able to afford a social life,” she said.
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Jul 11, 2018 23:19
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Twitter locked my account for saying we should kill rowan dean, so much for free speech, vote 1 ldp
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Jul 11, 2018 23:28
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Solemn Sloth posted:Twitter locked my account for saying we should kill rowan dean, so much for free speech, vote 1 ldp If only they could lock your SA account so we didn't have to see your posting SLAM
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Jul 11, 2018 23:45
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