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I feel as intellectually impotent as Echopraxia’s protagonist in trying to figure out what the heck happened. Did the Bicamerals and Valerie agree from the start to shape Bruks via mind trickery into a post-human superior to all of them? Did they make Jesus by compacting all of their genius powers into his head, as if he’s their own Portia spider now capable of so much in such a small package? snoremac fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Jul 10, 2018 |
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Jul 10, 2018 14:22
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Echopraxia spoilers: It's been a while since I finished the book, so I don't recall if it's outright stated that Bruks gets dragged along as a specific repository for Portia-Jesus, which they knew was waiting for them all along, or if he was more a set of durable spare parts. He's definitely manipulated out of his sabbatical and into the monastery by Valerie, so maybe that's all on her, and the Bicamerals weren't specifically expecting Portia. It's sort of hard to say when you're dealing with inherently ineffable planning on the part of godlike geniuses. I think we're thematically never meant to know, but by the same token, the book is titled after a condition where you involuntarily repeat someone else's movements. It doesn't seem unreasonable to suggest that literally everyone in the book is being played by a higher power, which I guess must be Portia, even if that does make for an unsatisfying narrative.
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Jul 10, 2018 16:09
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grassy gnoll posted:Echopraxia spoilers: It's been a while since I finished the book, so I don't recall if it's outright stated that Bruks gets dragged along as a specific repository for Portia-Jesus, which they knew was waiting for them all along, or if he was more a set of durable spare parts. He's definitely manipulated out of his sabbatical and into the monastery by Valerie, so maybe that's all on her, and the Bicamerals weren't specifically expecting Portia.
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Jul 10, 2018 16:24
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I am reading Kim Staneley Robinson's Red Mars. Truthfully this isn't my first experience with him as I tried to read Years of Salt and Rice. Does the Red Mars get any better or more interesting or is just a slog of a series to get through reading about mundane life of these people trying to colonize and terraform Mars.
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Jul 10, 2018 17:36
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Tiger Crazy posted:I am reading Kim Staneley Robinson's Red Mars. Truthfully this isn't my first experience with him as I tried to read Years of Salt and Rice. Does the Red Mars get any better or more interesting or is just a slog of a series to get through reading about mundane life of these people trying to colonize and terraform Mars. It just might not be for you. I hit the same snag with Red Mars. As far as KSR goes, Years of Rice and Salt is sort of OK, Aurora is probably the best genre book of the last few decades, the rest is forgettable.
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Jul 10, 2018 17:52
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snoremac posted:I prefer Blindsight's concrete consciousness-is-a-useless-aberration-and-we're-truly-alone over this. It hurts my head. I basically think of it as Neo-Lovecraft. We've built unknowable cosmic gods, and now we have to deal with our insignificance. This would make Bruks Nyalarthotep, walking out of the desert to bring chaos and change.
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Jul 10, 2018 19:15
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Am about 4 chapters into William Hope Hodgson's The Night Land @1912, and am at the point where Hodgson is describing how humanity lives in a post dead-sun era. The stuff Hodgson spends paragraphs and paragraphs describing would be about...oh..2 sentence descriptions involving [NANOMACHINES, BUCKYBALLS, DARK MATTER, NUETRINO POWER, FORCEFIELDS, ALIENTECH] 'Choose at least one" in modern books.
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Jul 10, 2018 21:00
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Take the plunge! Okay! posted:It just might not be for you. I hit the same snag with Red Mars. As far as KSR goes, Years of Rice and Salt is sort of OK, Aurora is probably the best genre book of the last few decades, the rest is forgettable. I just wanted to add that, just like Red Mars, Aurora is about mundane life of people trying to colonize and terraform another planet.
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Jul 10, 2018 21:10
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Neurosis posted:I see it a bit differently. I'm not sure that the Hieros and the Megatherians are opposed as much as what might seem to be the case. Certainly there are some things linking them together - the one that springs to mind is the Hierogrammate in Inire's book which is described as swimming through space, much as the undine said to Severian she and her sisters could do. Thematically, the problem of evil in a universe created by a benevolent creator, and the argument that even something evil can serve the plans of a good God (this conception of the point of evil is mirrored most obviously in the Vodalus/Autarch and post-ascendance Severian/Agia relationship) mean that there's nothing in the Hieros that must necessarily be good. An evil set of beings such as the Hierogrammates could lead to the primary means of apotheosis for humanity conceived of - redemptive suffering for our many failings and, ultimately, death and transcendence. Additionally, there are some indications - although they are maybe at the most obvious in Urth - where it seems like the Hieros want to make us suffer for pain humans of past universes caused them to suffer in their early years. Most people catch the influence of Catholic tradition, The Dying Earth, The Man who was Thursday, and Funes the Memorious, but the one I never see mentioned is Caeser's Commentaries on the Gallic Wars. As the Autarch Severian must justify and endear himself to various often conflicting audiences and so tries to mesh independent forces he doesn't understand into a simple coherent narrative.
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Jul 10, 2018 21:24
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I liked Night Land but I might not have finished it the first time were I not already a fan of his books.
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Jul 11, 2018 01:47
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Major Isoor posted:Also, I'm looking forward to the Company finding The Limper's head coming after them! Since in my book, when it comes to The Limper, (and Raven, for that matter) unless they show him actually dying I'm not going to believe it! And his head was still 'alive' when it was kicked into a ditch, after all Read more of The Silver Spike last night and uh, yeah.  Just got up to the bit where The Limper's head is found by TKD and he gets a new 'wicker man' body made by some half-shonky forest shamans, and then uses his position as a worshipped god-like figure to recruit a small army and wipe out Oar and the town by the Barrowland. (Does that town have an actual name, by the way?)I must say, I'm looking forward to how this pans out! I also like this plot a lot better as a side story involving less-covered characters in the series, too - I always like reading/watching stuff like this happening and being resolved without the all-powerful main cast's involvement. (for other series', too) Also, I love how Glen Cook is able to make characters like The Limper both a total brutal, resilient and powerful badass, while also getting the poo poo kicked out of him on other occasions, simply through a bit of his own arrogance and his opponent utilizing subterfuge. I dunno, I'm not describing it very well I know - I just like how even the most powerful characters are still extremely vulnerable in their own way, while still being able to display great acts of power like annihilating groups of soldiers, etc.
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Jul 11, 2018 02:04
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Anyone read Semiosis, by Sue Burke? I just read a violent rape scene in chapter two and am thinking about chucking the book. It seemed very pointless and unnecessary and I'm kind of past reading books that include stuff like that just to raise the stakes or make the bad guys seem worse.
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Jul 11, 2018 02:31
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apophenium posted:Anyone read Semiosis, by Sue Burke? I just read a violent rape scene in chapter two and am thinking about chucking the book. It seemed very pointless and unnecessary and I'm kind of past reading books that include stuff like that just to raise the stakes or make the bad guys seem worse. I read it earlier in the year because I was sold on the premise, but it's pretty eh and only gets worse and less interesting as it does on. I'd drop it now probably.
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Jul 11, 2018 02:54
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Major Isoor posted:Read more of The Silver Spike last night and uh, yeah. The Silver Spike might be my favorite of the series. Something happens in every chapter, lots of characters are in play, and we get a good look at the madness and willpower of The Limper. It's a great plot too, a couple low lifes pull off a heist that would daunt anyone who actually had any idea at all what they were dealing with, then they find themselves waaaay in over their heads. Enjoy !
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Jul 11, 2018 03:26
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Tiger Crazy posted:I am reading Kim Staneley Robinson's Red Mars. Truthfully this isn't my first experience with him as I tried to read Years of Salt and Rice. Does the Red Mars get any better or more interesting or is just a slog of a series to get through reading about mundane life of these people trying to colonize and terraform Mars. I'm currently about three quarters through Red Mars, and it took me a while to get into it. I'd say the first third is pretty dry, but then it becomes a political intrigue about the mars natives resisting corporations trying to turn the planet into colonies to exploit the planet for its mineral wealth. None of the main characters seem particularly developed or likeable, but more time is spent exploring the small ethnically diverse communities and how the planet shapes their culture and run-ins with rent-a-cops. I was hesitant to pick up and read three 25 year old door stoppers about terraforming mars. While I'm not in love with the book, there's enough to it that I'll keep reading them. Part of the momentum for me is to read a series that is part of the sci-fi canon, and if it were a new book, by a new author, I might stop after the first book. So read it if you are curious, because it does get a bit better, but it's not going to become amazing.
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Jul 11, 2018 04:02
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mllaneza posted:The Silver Spike might be my favorite of the series. Something happens in every chapter, lots of characters are in play, and we get a good look at the madness and willpower of The Limper. It's a great plot too, a couple low lifes pull off a heist that would daunt anyone who actually had any idea at all what they were dealing with, then they find themselves waaaay in over their heads. Oh yeah, it's definitely been a great ride so far!  Serious contender for my favourite entry in the series already, since it's still so early on and things don't look like they'll let up. I'm quite excited for the release of Port of Shadows (or whatever it's called) later in the year, since I'm hoping it'll be something similarly great to read. (Possibly featuring hijinks involving Krage and co., perhaps? Hard to say)EDIT: Oh also, speaking of Juniper, is there any mention of what happens to the bulk of the Black Company soldiers, who were left behind? Since I know Elmo takes some and regroups later on at Chimney, but there's still a whole lot of them unaccounted for - even including the detachment that went with Whisper to kill Croaker and the rest. Major Isoor fucked around with this message at 04:19 on Jul 11, 2018 |
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Jul 11, 2018 04:15
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Tokamak posted:I'm currently about three quarters through Red Mars, and it took me a while to get into it. I'd say the first third is pretty dry, but then it becomes a political intrigue about the mars natives resisting corporations trying to turn the planet into colonies to exploit the planet for its mineral wealth. None of the main characters seem particularly developed or likeable, but more time is spent exploring the small ethnically diverse communities and how the planet shapes their culture and run-ins with rent-a-cops. The best developed character in the Mars series is Mars itself. Once you get that, the books pick up. The collection of short stories set during the Mars cycle are really good. If you find it hard to love a trilogy about a planet, try those. They're much more approachable.
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Jul 11, 2018 05:15
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Microcline posted:Most people catch the influence of Catholic tradition, The Dying Earth, The Man who was Thursday, and Funes the Memorious, but the one I never see mentioned is Caeser's Commentaries on the Gallic Wars. As the Autarch Severian must justify and endear himself to various often conflicting audiences and so tries to mesh independent forces he doesn't understand into a simple coherent narrative. Huh. Interesting. I buy it without knowing much about the Commentaries. Severian has an element of Claudius about him so other Roman influences make sense. And Wolfe clearly had an interest in antiquity, given what we saw in Latro.
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Jul 11, 2018 05:53
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Welp, WWV ended up sucking. Good for about half the book, then the second half went a bit weird with a few plot points that literally did nothing, and then the ending was sort of a literary wet fart. I'm not gonna bother with the sequel.
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Jul 11, 2018 09:08
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Captain_Person posted:I read it earlier in the year because I was sold on the premise, but it's pretty eh and only gets worse and less interesting as it does on. I'd drop it now probably. Yeah, I really liked the concept, and I finished the book, but it was merely Ok. I don't remember there being any other scenes like that later, but I might have just blocked it from memory because it was fairly forgettable.
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Jul 11, 2018 15:41
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What's with the occasional red letters in Watts's latest? Starting point for some ARG? Arbitrary insert to jack up the printing cost? I couldn't be arsed to write them down myself but if someone has please feel free to spoil it for me.
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Jul 11, 2018 16:25
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https://www.google.com/search?q=freeze+frame+revolution+red+letters
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Jul 11, 2018 16:30
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Someone tell me what the red letters mean, the google search isn't helping...
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Jul 11, 2018 17:04
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https://www.reddit.com/r/printSF/comments/8omjxm/spoilers_discussion_of_the_freezeframe_revolution/ includes the red letters, and the url.
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Jul 11, 2018 17:17
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90s Cringe Rock posted:https://www.reddit.com/r/printSF/comments/8omjxm/spoilers_discussion_of_the_freezeframe_revolution/ includes the red letters, and the url. Yesssss. Thank you sir.
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Jul 11, 2018 18:23
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Just finished it. OMG.
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Jul 11, 2018 22:02
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my bony fealty posted:My interpretation (and all bigtime Wolfe fans have their own) is that the Hierogrammates and the Megatherians are the end result of two different paths human evolution can lead to. In the future where the New Sun is brought humanity evolves into the Hieros that create the Hierogrammates. In the future where it isn't (corresponding with the Urth of Master Ash) humanity turns into and/or creates the giant aquatic monsters and undines. So the events of BOTNS are the final battle in this war, one side being represented by Severian and one by Baldanders. Their fight in Sword of the Lictor is quite literally a fight for the future of human existence. There's a lot more to it but that's the gist of my 'cosmic war' idea. That sounds cool, though I'm not sure why the Megatharians would want to live in a world where the seas have frozen over. And if they're trapped on Urth as opposed to being a space-faring race then they'll eventually perish when the sun dies. I'm a little worried after reading Gene Wolfe that other fantasy and sci-fi books are going to seem shallow and boring in comparison. Though the one thing Wolfe doesn't try to do is inject much humor into Severian's journey, so I suppose that's one thing other stories can provide. Ccs fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Jul 11, 2018 |
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Jul 11, 2018 22:08
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Ok. So. I really really liked Freeze Frame Revolution and the Lock Step series of short stories and Pushing Ice. Can anyone recommend me something similar?
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Jul 11, 2018 22:09
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Steakandchips posted:Ok. So. I really really liked Freeze Frame Revolution and the Lock Step series of short stories and Pushing Ice.
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Jul 11, 2018 22:39
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Marooned in Real-time and The Peace War by Vinge
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Jul 12, 2018 01:44
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coffeetable posted:House of Suns Seconded
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Jul 12, 2018 04:39
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Are the Lock Step short stories referred to related to Karl Schroeder's novel Lockstep? Which is a decent read
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Jul 12, 2018 07:29
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is there some way I can find Cyteen as an e-book? Either I'm stupid or I'm just not searching hard enough.
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Jul 12, 2018 08:00
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coffeetable posted:House of Suns Read it. Loved it.
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Jul 12, 2018 09:40
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Neurosis posted:Are the Lock Step short stories referred to related to Karl Schroeder's novel Lockstep? Which is a decent read Yes. The short stories came out in Analog first, then were mashed together to make a novel.
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Jul 12, 2018 09:41
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Fallom posted:Marooned in Real-time and The Peace War by Vinge Looking these up now.
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Jul 12, 2018 09:41
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Fallom posted:Marooned in Real-time and The Peace War by Vinge The Peace War is pretty iffy, I think it’s Vinge’s worst novel. Good ideas, but the plot and characterization are mediocre. Marooned is great though. In a sentence it’s about a policeman investigating a murder which might or might not be related to the disappearance of humanity a few eons earlier. Velius fucked around with this message at 13:39 on Jul 12, 2018 |
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Jul 12, 2018 13:36
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Orcamancer is a good word.
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Jul 12, 2018 13:59
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Velius posted:The Peace War is pretty iffy, I think it’s Vinge’s worst novel. Good ideas, but the plot and characterization are mediocre. Marooned is great though. In a sentence it’s about a policeman investigating a murder which might or might not be related to the disappearance of humanity a few eons earlier. It's not his first but it's the first one you ever hear anybody talk about. To be fair, though, "good ideas but the plot and characterization are mediocre" is most of his work in a nutshell.
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Jul 12, 2018 15:45
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a very wet possum posted:is there some way I can find Cyteen as an e-book? Either I'm stupid or I'm just not searching hard enough. Bafflingly, most of her other A-U stuff, including Regenesis and Downbelow Station, is available on Google Play. And a Cyteen audiobook is available on Closed Circle. But a Cyteen ebook seems to be entirely absent. You could try emailing her or asking on WWAS if she has any plans to put it on CC.
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