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I think Eclipse is prone to group think, just based on the observation that I often see arguments like this
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Jul 11, 2018 23:56
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jmzero posted:I like Eclipse well enough, but this is silly. Like, quite often early you're just taking out some neutrals, and you have a pretty good idea of your chances are against them, and just have to decide when to roll. You could wait until you have a 95% chance of winning (ie. "be decent at it"), but the guy who tries (and wins) at 65% is going to be way ahead of you (or, sometimes, get wiped and be quite a bit behind). It's not a matter of "git gud"; if you're playing with reasonable opposition, you're going to have to try to get your chips in on good bets, and be prepared to win or lose on the results. That's an interesting take and in that very specific circumstance I can imagine luck having a solid impact on the game. All I can really say in response is that I'm definitely the 95% player, and I and the other 95% seem to do well. I wonder if part of it is that a lucky early expansion is less important than it feels. You're probably looking at 1-3 extra production at the cost of an action token, and that's only if you didn't expand elsewhere and still have colony ships free which would be a first turn oddity. The 65%-er may get there one turn early but that doesn't necessarily mean much. And again, that situation only really exists for turn one. Ancients should not be a problem on turn 2. And that actually comes to one of the crux's of Eclipse's randomness for me - the same two people seem to win in my group over and over again and when we spill over into other groups we have to pull punches to keep things fair and fun. It suggests to me that small random swings even themselves out despite how important they may seem at the moment they happen during the game and overall experience and strategy gets you through. Now that it has an app, maybe folks with do what they did with TTA and see how much the game comes down to skill vs randomness. I'd be interested. Shadow225 posted:I've never played nor will I play Eclipse but I think that employing a No True Scotsman defense in decry a dude's actual real life experience feels a little odd Oh my loving god. He's a big boy and I'm sure he's had someone disagree with him on the internet before. fozzy fosbourne posted:I think Eclipse is prone to group think, just based on the observation that I often see arguments like this Absolutely. People here always complain about shields invalidating computers and I almost never see them in our games. Someone tried it once or twice and got slaughtered by a neighbor who just threw ion cannons down loving everywhere and rolled in with a thousand dice while the shielded player had to keep them on to fend off the computer dude coming from the other side. I'm pretty convinced they're a trap tech. Ohthehugemanatee fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Jul 12, 2018 |
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Jul 12, 2018 00:12
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I just got Vast the Crystal Cavern, Clash of Cultures and Merchants & Marauders Seas of Glory. How much did I gently caress up? 5-player totally asymmetric game sounds very much like my thing: - ...so the Knight has to slay the dragon, the goblins want to kill the knight, the dragon has to wake up and escape, and the thief just grabs as much loot as he can carry and runs for his life. Got all that? - what about you? - I'm the cave and you're all crawling around in my rear end in a top hat.
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Jul 12, 2018 00:42
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My experience in Eclipse (with expansion) is definitely that the 95% play is much, much stronger. Losing even one combat gamble well outweighs the benefit you get out of winning them. Discovery token luck is, IMO, much more impactful. You can become a nigh-unopposable combat god with the right pulls and correct ship development around them. There are straight-up "beats everything else" builds in the expansion if you get the right techs, it's just usually extremely expensive... unless you get access to that build early and for cheap because of some awesome random tech discoveries.
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Jul 12, 2018 00:51
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my two cents: just use a loving CRT, nerds
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Jul 12, 2018 00:58
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Picked up Tragedy Looper from Miniature Market because 1 vs. many sounds interesting, it was cheap, and anime art aside, I like the theme. Game seems complicated, though; does it get easy to grasp after a play or two? Any tips for learning/teaching? I'll be mastermind.
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Jul 12, 2018 01:02
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Tragedy Looper rules, though I've only ever played the first two scripts since I'm always mastermind and I would really love to play as a protagonist for future scripts. There's a teaching aid here: https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/108294/tragedy-looper-teaching-script
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Jul 12, 2018 01:13
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Pierzak posted:I just got Vast the Crystal Cavern, Clash of Cultures and Merchants & Marauders Seas of Glory. How much did I gently caress up? 5-player totally asymmetric game sounds very much like my thing: Do you have Kemet? If you don't, you hosed up.
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Jul 12, 2018 01:19
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my one play of eclipse involved an experienced player all-but cutting off the expansion of another inexperienced player, then goading them into attacking me (which they did, and won even though it was like 40% odds), after which they went completely out-of-the-game-entirely bankrupt leaving a bunch of empty space that only Mr. Puppetmaster could expand into. kind of a dick move imo
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Jul 12, 2018 01:22
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StashAugustine posted:my two cents: just use a loving CRT, nerds It's really weird how much time people spend trying to defend buckets of dice systems instead of just saying they're bad and writing off any game that uses them.
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Jul 12, 2018 01:34
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cenotaph posted:It's really weird how much time people spend trying to defend buckets of dice systems instead of just saying they're bad and writing off any game that uses them. But how else will I justify by obsession purchasing dice and dice towers???????????
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Jul 12, 2018 02:26
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GrandpaPants posted:Do you have Kemet? If you don't, you hosed up. 1. Kemet is a meme 2. local boardgame cafe has it so I'll probably play it anyway at some point
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Jul 12, 2018 02:31
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Rad Valtar posted:Looking for opinions on Clans of Caledonia especially with 2 players? Cool little game. Works fine with two. Better with more.
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Jul 12, 2018 02:34
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million dollar mack posted:But how else will I justify by obsession purchasing dice and dice towers??????????? Dice are good for representing HP in Gloomhaven.
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Jul 12, 2018 02:48
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Speaking of 2p, any good outside of the box recs for 2p games or (even better) games that are good/decent at 2p and scale up well? Already have raptor, patchwork, 7W duel, codenames duet, Agricola ACBAS in our reliable 2p stable.
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Jul 12, 2018 02:52
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Bodanarko posted:Speaking of 2p, any good outside of the box recs for 2p games or (even better) games that are good/decent at 2p and scale up well? Burgundy von burgundy burger barger
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Jul 12, 2018 02:58
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Bodanarko posted:Speaking of 2p, any good outside of the box recs for 2p games or (even better) games that are good/decent at 2p and scale up well? I am the broken record that will always recommend Hanamikoji at any given opportunity. I wrote a description in this thread if you wanna look at my posts.
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Jul 12, 2018 03:03
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Japanese Dating Sim posted:I am the broken record that will always recommend Hanamikoji at any given opportunity. I wrote a description in this thread if you wanna look at my posts. I'm looking forward to picking up my preordered reprint of this at gencon.
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Jul 12, 2018 03:51
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cenotaph posted:It's really weird how much time people spend trying to defend buckets of dice systems instead of just saying they're bad and writing off any game that uses them. Here I Stand, I can do no other. God help me!
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Jul 12, 2018 04:44
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There's ONE copy of Kitchen Rush at boardgamebliss right now. PSA of the day. I like Eclipse regardless, and I always keep mentally coming back to how the resident Rain Man can 100% whup everyone's asses no matter what race he takes which makes me think there's a level of play I just haven't reached 
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Jul 12, 2018 05:58
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Ask Corbeau how many games of Eclipse he's lost.
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Jul 12, 2018 06:38
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CaptainRightful posted:Here I Stand, I can do no other. God help me! Also bad.
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Jul 12, 2018 06:46
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I just finished up a game of Lowlands with some friends and we all had a really good time. We managed to hold off the flood at the end, and had a pretty close game - the 2nd place player (and dyke building leader) shot themselves in the foot by building too much of the dyke in the final round in an attempt to force myself (1st place) and the 3rd place player to take a even more breach tokens, in the process allowing to just barely finish the dyke together and avoid taking breach tokens alltogether. The final scores were 89 - 101 - 109, so I definitely would have been in a heap of trouble otherwise. There were some other really satisfying moments in the game, like when I used my 4 value worker to get a bunch of resource cards, and followed it up a 2 value worker with a +2 value token to build the Farmhouse, which allowed me to build the Orchard (+15 vp for my unenclosed trees) in a row for an immediate 19 point bonus, both for one fewer resource than the actual cost because I had a laborer on the building space. I'm curious about whether some buildings/strategies will end up being a clearly better pick than others, but we're definitely looking forward to getting the game to the table again soon. My main complaint would probably be about the manual - it seems to completely miss a couple of things like the +2 value worker tokens, which are only referred to in the separate appendix, and left us wondering about some less discussed rules, like if there are any additional ways to reassign laborers aside from the two chances you get when uncovering them on your income card (I don't think there are, but we spent a decent amount of time poring over the manual trying to figure out if we were missing something). The learning curve on some of the building iconography was a bit rough too as we were constantly referring to the appendix for first two thirds of the game, but it should be smoother sailing in future games.
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Jul 12, 2018 06:48
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Pierzak posted:1. Kemet is a meme This opinion is a meme. By the way, if anyone remembers WonderDice, the French company who blatantly plagiarised someone's design for an Alien board game: their website just went from a "more news soon" page to blank. Either they're very incompetent at site maintenance, or they're done.
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Jul 12, 2018 08:30
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Dice are good for representing HP in Gloomhaven. Ditch modifier decks, roll for attacks 
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Jul 12, 2018 11:57
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I'm really excited to try Lowlands, but Boardlandia hit me with the unblockable set up of "we have this item" and "now that you've ordered we regret to inform you this item is running late". I mostly don't mind but I'm moving in like two weeks and I don't want shipping to get weird from that.
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Jul 12, 2018 13:24
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does Azul have staying power? i rarely get to play with more than my partner consistently enough to get a bunch of the same people learning crunchy games, but having simpler games to teach sporadic groups that also turn into a cruel and vicious knife fight with two competent players is a fair substitute if they dont get stale quickly
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Jul 12, 2018 14:04
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Ayn Randi posted:does Azul have staying power? i rarely get to play with more than my partner consistently enough to get a bunch of the same people learning crunchy games, but having simpler games to teach sporadic groups that also turn into a cruel and vicious knife fight with two competent players is a fair substitute if they dont get stale quickly I think if you're willing to help other players out and maybe pull a punch or two with regard to ruthlessly leaving them with five tiles they can't use at the end of a round everyone should have a good time. Any game that you've played way more than someone else can turn into a slaughter if you approach it in a win-at-all-costs attitude, in my opinion. I'm more than happy when introducing/teaching a game I know way more than others to put the training wheels on unless they're being a tough guy and want to kick it to ultraviolence from the get-go. There's little value in trying to get someone into a game only to murder them so profoundly that they walk away with PTSD from the experience. I've had it done to me and would not inflict it on others.
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Jul 12, 2018 14:26
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Countblanc posted:I'm really excited to try Lowlands, but Boardlandia hit me with the unblockable set up of "we have this item" and "now that you've ordered we regret to inform you this item is running late". I mostly don't mind but I'm moving in like two weeks and I don't want shipping to get weird from that. Same exact thing happened to me. I feel bad but I ended up cancelling my order; I need to probably put off buying it until next month anyway. For what it's worth, I cancelled yesterday and the owner told me that they were expecting them to get in (and maybe go out?) today. Japanese Dating Sim fucked around with this message at 14:42 on Jul 12, 2018 |
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Jul 12, 2018 14:37
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FulsomFrank posted:I think if you're willing to help other players out and maybe pull a punch or two with regard to ruthlessly leaving them with five tiles they can't use at the end of a round everyone should have a good time. I think if you're playing a game against newbies you have an obligation to try a new strategy or whatever to prevent that.
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Jul 12, 2018 14:38
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:I think if you're playing a game against newbies you have an obligation to try a new strategy or whatever to prevent that. Agreed! That's a simple way to fix it. Experiment. At the end of the day it's just a game. There are definitely people I know though that unless they win their first game they will never touch it again. Creates a very frustrating dilemma.
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Jul 12, 2018 14:53
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id say that you should play at least a little normally so it doesn't end up being super weird. this is kind of the eternal paradox of teaching twilight struggle: playing as the soviets is easier, more fun, and requires less knowledge to do well; but a newbie is 100% going to gently caress it up their first time and early soviet moves kinda set the tone for the game
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Jul 12, 2018 15:34
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Just got my shipping notice for Container!
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Jul 12, 2018 16:40
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OmegaGoo posted:Just got my shipping notice for Container! What country do you live in??
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Jul 12, 2018 16:44
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FulsomFrank posted:What country do you live in?? USA. Wisconsin, if that matters.
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Jul 12, 2018 16:46
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It's weird cause I hate playing as the Soviets in TS and I always enjoy playing the US more.
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Jul 12, 2018 17:53
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Bodanarko posted:Speaking of 2p, any good outside of the box recs for 2p games or (even better) games that are good/decent at 2p and scale up well? Biblios is great with 2 and scales very well. Arboretum is great with 2 and scales OK. Azul has been surprisingly good with 2 so far and I bet it would be better with more. Race for the Galaxy? Is that outside the box?
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Jul 12, 2018 22:02
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Azul is good at every player count.
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Jul 12, 2018 22:22
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Tekopo posted:It's weird cause I hate playing as the Soviets in TS and I always enjoy playing the US more. The US is kind of the dog for the most interesting part of TS, imo, and that's cool.
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Jul 12, 2018 22:44
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FulsomFrank posted:I think if you're willing to help other players out and maybe pull a punch or two with regard to ruthlessly leaving them with five tiles they can't use at the end of a round everyone should have a good time. Yeah nice, not worried about crushing the new guys but more to have the option for just the two of us to play go-for-the-throat style on the reg. We like things like carcasonne where you can play the fun chill game with family and friends and the mean german denial style game with each other. Less about it being a slaugher of experienced vs inexperienced which can happen with any game than the specific type of game where playing for a net point gain via targeted denial/interference is a baked in thing, keyflower extremely has it for example and takenoko doesn't.
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Jul 13, 2018 00:28
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