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Pick posted:Actually, it is because in the future middle easterners are still considered more suspicious than Cardassians 
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Jul 11, 2018 23:46
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MA-Horus posted:I kinda like how Ezri was assigned to DS9. It speaks to a wartime expediency. No, I'm pretty sure the unplanned joining hosed her up beyond starfleet's ability to fix. The Trill couldn't fix her either, they just threw up their hands and went "better luck next life, Dax". She wasn't even finished her practicum training, but she wasn't fit to continue. She wasn't stable enough to be a councillor. Sending her to DS9 was a last hail mary option before giving her a medical discharge. Maybe being back on DS9 will stabilize the Dax part of the pair, and from there Dax will be able to become the dominant partner and smooth things out. Starfleet would be perfectly happy to allow them to become Jadzia 2.0. That isn't how trill usually do it, but the trill don't know what the gently caress to do either.
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Jul 11, 2018 23:51
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Facebook Aunt posted:No, I'm pretty sure the unplanned joining hosed her up beyond starfleet's ability to fix. The Trill couldn't fix her either, they just threw up their hands and went "better luck next life, Dax". She wasn't even finished her practicum training, but she wasn't fit to continue. She wasn't stable enough to be a councillor. A missed opportunity to have Ezri reject the Joining and say "No, if I join with that thing Ezri Teegan will cease to exist and be replaced by a different person. Everyone who insists that I go through with this procedure is arguing that Ezri Dax matters more than Ezri Teegan, and I have the right to not commit suicide."
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Jul 12, 2018 01:00
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Cythereal posted:A missed opportunity to have Ezri reject the Joining and say "No, if I join with that thing Ezri Teegan will cease to exist and be replaced by a different person. Everyone who insists that I go through with this procedure is arguing that Ezri Dax matters more than Ezri Teegan, and I have the right to not commit suicide." This would cause Janeway and Voyager to spontaneously materialize the alpha quadrant, where she would order the doctor to transport Dax directly into Ezri's pouch. The doctor would refuse so she'd do it herself, then fly directly into the wormhole. The prophets would reroute her the Delta quadrant, but the crew would celebrate because this reroute cut one month off their 80 year trip.
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Jul 12, 2018 01:17
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counterfeitsaint posted:Yeah that's true. So that's two reasons to exist. Did Jadzia have that many in 6 seasons previously? She facilitated making Kurzon-Odo. No. Jadzia was a horribly written character from the start; she began as a old person in a horny young body that Bashir badly wanted to nail, which got old pretty quickly. Then she was just the spunky young know-it-all science officer doubling as Sisko's mentor, which got equally old. Then Worf comes along, and her role for the next three seasons was basically split between "Worf's love interest" and "calls out damage reports on DS9 / the Defiant." I mean, even if Rick Berman hadn't been harassing the everloving poo poo out of her in the first place I don't blame Farrell for asking to be part-time for the seventh season, because the role was just so, so, so empty.
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Jul 12, 2018 01:37
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It's a shame that Jadzia and Kira's relationship is basically "hang out in a spa once", there was a lot of meat to where that could have gone
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Jul 12, 2018 01:44
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Maybe trill are just a terrible concept altogether. While I liked Jhadzia, I didn't like the "girl time" moments in ops with Kira. "I remember when blah blah did a thing" "Who?" "a previous host who was more interesting and adventurous than myself, but I can smirk at how impressed and shocked everyone is listening to a 200 year old sex story that's not really mine". Edit cause pick makes a point: You're completely correct that they could have written in a truly strong friendship. But the writers seemed to have decided that Odo needed to slam the sexy crinkle nose. ramenpower fucked around with this message at 01:50 on Jul 12, 2018 |
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Jul 12, 2018 01:46
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No wait, I found it, the second good thing Jadzia added to DS9 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPNCaRZf2IM
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Jul 12, 2018 01:47
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I have to admit there's also the part of me that will never find it not-lame that Trill don't even have forehead ridges, just those itty bitty lame spots.
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Jul 12, 2018 01:48
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Timby posted:No. Jadzia was a horribly written character from the start; she began as a old person in a horny young body that Bashir badly wanted to nail, which got old pretty quickly. Then she was just the spunky young know-it-all science officer doubling as Sisko's mentor, which got equally old. Then Worf comes along, and her role for the next three seasons was basically split between "Worf's love interest" and "calls out damage reports on DS9 / the Defiant." I mean, even if Rick Berman hadn't been harassing the everloving poo poo out of her in the first place I don't blame Farrell for asking to be part-time for the seventh season, because the role was just so, so, so empty. I heard that Farrell wanted more money, and when she didn't get it, so went off to do a sitcom with Ted Danson and did the same thing.
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Jul 12, 2018 01:48
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The General posted:I heard that Farrell wanted more money, and when she didn't get it, so went off to do a sitcom with Ted Danson and did the same thing. Good for her. Also she got to marry Leonard Nimoy's son so she must be pretty fuckin cool.
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Jul 12, 2018 01:49
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The General posted:I heard that Farrell wanted more money, and when she didn't get it, so went off to do a sitcom with Ted Danson and did the same thing. She asked to do thirteen episodes in the seventh season, noting to Berman that at that point of DS9's run, there were so, so, so many characters that it's not like she'd be missed if she weren't there for half of them, and that was not like Jadzia had been particularly important to the show's arc at that point. Berman refused, then told Ira Behr that Farrell said she'd quit unless she got a massive pay raise, never mentioning that she had requested to go part-time. Behr later said that if he had known the truth, Jadzia never would have been whacked. With Becker, that was a whole different thing, because she and Danson reportedly hated each other.
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Jul 12, 2018 01:56
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Timby posted:She asked to do thirteen episodes in the seventh season, noting to Berman that at that point of DS9's run, there were so, so, so many characters that it's not like she'd be missed if she weren't there for half of them, and that was not like Jadzia had been particularly important to the show's arc at that point. Berman refused, then told Ira Behr that Farrell said she'd quit unless she got a massive pay raise, never mentioning that she had requested to go part-time. Behr later said that if he had known the truth, Jadzia never would have been whacked. Rick Berman is a garbage person. I didn't know that about Terry Farrell. Personally, I hated Jadzia and liked Ezra, so I thought it was a good switch. However, part of that is just my boner talking because I had a huge crush on Nicole de Boer (and I loved her Outer Limits episode, "Quality of Mercy").
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Jul 12, 2018 02:10
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Cythereal posted:A missed opportunity to have Ezri reject the Joining and say "No, if I join with that thing Ezri Teegan will cease to exist and be replaced by a different person. Everyone who insists that I go through with this procedure is arguing that Ezri Dax matters more than Ezri Teegan, and I have the right to not commit suicide." If the episode with her family is any indication maybe she was down with that. Temper Trudeau posted:Maybe trill are just a terrible concept altogether. While I liked Jhadzia, I didn't like the "girl time" moments in ops with Kira. It was pretty funny when they came out the holodeck dressed as princesses and Kira as Guinevere had punched Lancelot on the nose.
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Jul 12, 2018 02:21
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Timby posted:She asked to do thirteen episodes in the seventh season, noting to Berman that at that point of DS9's run, there were so, so, so many characters that it's not like she'd be missed if she weren't there for half of them, and that was not like Jadzia had been particularly important to the show's arc at that point. Berman refused, then told Ira Behr that Farrell said she'd quit unless she got a massive pay raise, never mentioning that she had requested to go part-time. Behr later said that if he had known the truth, Jadzia never would have been whacked. I could believe that. IIRC Berman told Wheaton that no he couldn't have any time off from TNG because Wesley was super important for a couple upcoming episodes. Then just had Wil sit there doing nothing instead of doing something cool, like making a movie. Serious bitch move, I don't think I've heard anybody ever say anything nice about Berman.
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Jul 12, 2018 02:32
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If “something” happened because of “money” it probably came out of Berman’s mouth and was probably half-true at best. Edit like yeah, the Wesley thing. If Wheaton goes and becomes even a mildly bigger name they’d have to pay him more at some point. Best to just gently caress him over. Kibayasu fucked around with this message at 02:35 on Jul 12, 2018 |
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Jul 12, 2018 02:33
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The General posted:I could believe that. IIRC Berman told Wheaton that no he couldn't have any time off from TNG because Wesley was super important for a couple upcoming episodes. Then just had Wil sit there doing nothing instead of doing something cool, like making a movie. Serious bitch move, I don't think I've heard anybody ever say anything nice about Berman. Berman did some good things, like installing Michael Piller as the head of TNG when he took over the show after Paramount realized that Roddenberry was just completely out of his gourd, and he had the presence of mind to talk with Genevieve Bujold when it was clear that Bujold wasn't up to 14-hour shooting days on Voyager, but, yeah, he's generally a piece of poo poo. Brent Spiner loving loved the guy, though, because Spiner never had any loyalty to Trek and was always happy to extort him for as much money as possible to sign on for another season of TNG or another movie.
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Jul 12, 2018 02:53
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I'm one of those people who liked the Roddenberry TNG better. Dude brought us Q, the Crystalline Entity, Skin of Evil, and the Conspiracy episodes. However, I grew up on TOS. Berman's run felt like they lost some of the magic and wonder, and started getting more Piller Filler technobabble. That being said, both Roddenberry and Berman were huge pieces of poo poo who cared mostly about money.
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Jul 12, 2018 03:04
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Bogus Adventure posted:I'm one of those people who liked the Roddenberry TNG better. Dude brought us Q, the Crystalline Entity, Skin of Evil, and the Conspiracy episodes. Much of that stuff is far more directly attributable to David Gerrold, Eddie Milkis, Bob Justman and Tracy Tormé.
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Jul 12, 2018 03:14
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Timby posted:Much of that stuff is far more directly attributable to David Gerrold, Eddie Milkis, Bob Justman and Tracy Tormé. Encounter at Farpoint is written by Gene Roddenberry and D.C. Fontana, and that gave us the birth of Q. There's a reason why that episode feels like TOS instead of late state TNG.
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Jul 12, 2018 03:16
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Ghost Leviathan posted:It was pretty funny when they came out the holodeck dressed as princesses and Kira as Guinevere had punched Lancelot on the nose. That was when Worf showed up, right? Sure they alluded to a strong friendship between Jhadzia and Kira but we don't see the building of that relationship beyond small gossip scenes like "You're loving a dude with a transparent skull?!?". Ezri was like a pre-academy Nog replacement. I didn't know at all about the behind the scenes fuckery. I haven't heard anything nice said about Berman either.
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Jul 12, 2018 03:24
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yeah, there were a cubic fuckton of one-off q-ish characters in tos.
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Jul 12, 2018 03:26
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Also, I realize I'm a weirdo who likes Roddenberry TNG and TMP. Don't mind me and my bad opinions on entertainment. However, I just want to emphasize that Berman is a piece of poo poo who is interested in rewriting history to make it sound like he was Roddenberry's heir apparent rather than a studio watchdog.
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Jul 12, 2018 03:27
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Bogus Adventure posted:That being said, both Roddenberry and Berman were huge pieces of poo poo who cared mostly about money.
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Jul 12, 2018 03:47
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Bogus Adventure posted:Encounter at Farpoint is written by Gene Roddenberry and D.C. Fontana, and that gave us the birth of Q. There's a reason why that episode feels like TOS instead of late state TNG. That's what the credits say, but ol' Gene honestly wasn't up to writing much of anything even as early as 1987. Most of what was written "by Gene Roddenberry" was very likely actually the product of his lawyer Leonard Maizlish, and Gene leaned so heavily on David Gerrold for the TNG writers' bible that when Gerrold finally had enough and left Paramount, the studio wound up paying him a substantial sum of money to settle a lawsuit that could have seen him winning a permanent co-creator credit on TNG.
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Jul 12, 2018 03:55
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Jul 12, 2018 03:58
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:That's what the credits say, but ol' Gene honestly wasn't up to writing much of anything even as early as 1987. Most of what was written "by Gene Roddenberry" was very likely actually the product of his lawyer Leonard Maizlish, and Gene leaned so heavily on David Gerrold for the TNG writers' bible that when Gerrold finally had enough and left Paramount, the studio wound up paying him a substantial sum of money to settle a lawsuit that could have seen him winning a permanent co-creator credit on TNG. Fair dues. However, Gerrold is also a TOS vet, and it also has D.C. Fontana was another one of the powerhouses of TOS episodes.
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Jul 12, 2018 04:02
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Temper Trudeau posted:That was when Worf showed up, right? Yes it was. One thing I actually like is the inferred holoprogram usage in DS9. Unlike Voyager where it just "well we played in the Holodeck once, wasn't it fun this thing we inferred?" you get an implied sense of regularity from the cast of DS9. Bashir and O'Brien have been at the WWI aviation program so often that Quark's got beers ready to go and knows exactly what they're talking about when they pop out for a break, and even Odo's apparently tagged along once or twice. RIP Clive. Not to mention you actually see them playing it again in several episodes rather than just a once-off-and-forgotten character trait. Or hel,l just the Dartboard stuck up in Quark's actually getting regular use from a wide variety of characters throughout the show's run.
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Jul 12, 2018 04:03
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I love these toys, and I still have tupperware tubs of them from my childhood.
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Jul 12, 2018 04:03
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What the gently caress happened to Pulaski? She was cool.
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Jul 12, 2018 04:05
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Budgie Jumping posted:What the gently caress happened to Pulaski? She was cool. Gates McFadden begged for her job back?
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Jul 12, 2018 04:06
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Bogus Adventure posted:Gates McFadden begged for her job back? I thought it was more "we fired Roddenberry, please come back"?
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Jul 12, 2018 04:07
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So, despite being a massive trekkie when I was younger, and still generally interested, apparently I never came across any of these stories of drama on the sets. Berman harassing Farrell, the "both Roddenberry and Berman were huge pieces of poo poo who cared mostly about money" thing, etc. Is this stuff just generally well known now, any articles about what happened during these series run, anything like that?
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Jul 12, 2018 04:11
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Temper Trudeau posted:
No all of those were fine.
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Jul 12, 2018 04:12
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Neddy Seagoon posted:I thought it was more "we fired Roddenberry, please come back"? I take it back, it was Maurice Hurley who fired her and then the TNG group asked for her to come back. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice_Hurley The only thing I ever remembered was her being unceremoniously fired.
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Jul 12, 2018 04:13
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Neddy Seagoon posted:I thought it was more "we fired Roddenberry, please come back"? Maurice Hurley, actually. He’s the reason she left in the first place.
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Jul 12, 2018 04:14
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rafikki posted:So, despite being a massive trekkie when I was younger, and still generally interested, apparently I never came across any of these stories of drama on the sets. Berman harassing Farrell, the "both Roddenberry and Berman were huge pieces of poo poo who cared mostly about money" thing, etc. Is this stuff just generally well known now, any articles about what happened during these series run, anything like that? I was in the same boat, tbqh. I grew up on TOS reruns and then TNG debuted when I was 5 years old. I was sad when Tasha Yar was killed, and had no idea why Dr. Crusher was suddenly replaced by Data-hating Dr. Pulaski. I only really started learning this poo poo when the Internet became a thing, and then it killed a lot of the magic and nostalgia for me. 
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Jul 12, 2018 04:15
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Budgie Jumping posted:What the gently caress happened to Pulaski? She was cool. Maurice Hurley hosed off
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Jul 12, 2018 04:16
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A good source of BTS drama stories are the 50 Year Mission books. They’re oral histories from cast and crew who aren’t always 100% candid, but it’s usually pretty easy to read between the lines. Marina Sirtis and Robert Beltran don’t pull any punches in it though, and their stories are among the most scathing.
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Jul 12, 2018 04:18
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Owlbear Camus posted:https://twitter.com/HaskellBlurry/status/1017161332557262850
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Jul 12, 2018 04:20
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