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Mr. Nice! posted:I mean, you can also jack off and cum on someone's vulva and knock them up, so it's not even technically correct although masterbation isn't really abstinence. The real answer is that abstinence can fail in the same sense that a condom can fail because human beings are not willpower golems
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Jul 11, 2018 16:15
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ilkhan posted:Is their answer medically incorrect? abstinence has a lower success rate in preventing pregnancy, as actually practiced, than other forms of birth control do, as actually practiced
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Jul 11, 2018 16:16
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1ZpTyuaFW4&t=65s
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Jul 11, 2018 16:17
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evilweasel posted:abstinence has a lower success rate in preventing pregnancy, as actually practiced, than other forms of birth control do, as actually practiced It's not the education they should be giving out, because odds and behavior do matter, but it *is* the medically correct answer.
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Jul 11, 2018 16:26
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ilkhan posted:But at that point you aren't abstaining any longer. it's not the medically correct answer, because looking at a theoretical construct rather than how humans actually behave is not a medically correct approach. it would be no more reasonable than to say that condoms are 100% effective, when used exactly properly and manufactured exactly properly.
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Jul 11, 2018 16:29
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I get it, abstinence is to teen pregnancy as gun bans are to gun violence. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 11, 2018 16:30
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*ahem* speaking as the expert, technically correct answers require a proper adherence to all precedential information and contextual elements. There are a number of other 100% effective methods of birth control...such as abortion. Wxhode posted:I get it, abstinence is to teen pregnancy as gun bans are to gun violence. 1/10, need to build a persona before stamping on the gas like this. Also needs to provide sufficient complexity, ambiguity, or semantic content to draw in people to engage.
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Jul 11, 2018 16:31
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ilkhan posted:But at that point you aren't abstaining any longer. No, not really. It's a matter of framing. "Abstinence always works" frames all other forms of birth control as failures of the method, but failures of abstinence as personal failures. Which is an ethical judgment, not a scientific measurement; the error rate on condoms is almost entirely user error also. All birth control failures are failures of the method. A more medically accurate assessment would be to view "abstinence training" as a behavior protocol (along the lines of cognitive behavioral therapy interventions etc). And if you view "abstinence" that way, it fails a lot; the training doesn't hold.
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Jul 11, 2018 16:32
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Discendo Vox posted:There are a number of other 100% effective methods of birth control...such as abortion. Even that is like 99.99%. There are few documented cases of "abortion survivors" (usually twins where one twin got scooped out and the other remained).
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Jul 11, 2018 16:34
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ilkhan posted:But at that point you aren't abstaining any longer. The medically correct answer takes human psychology and behavior into account. That's why "just give everyone condoms" isn't the medically correct answer either, because although they are 99% effective if properly used that "if properly used" part is why their actual effectiveness is much lower and therefore birth control pills or IUDs are recommended along with condom use.
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Jul 11, 2018 16:34
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Most reliable method of birth control: nag teenagers to not gently caress *teen pregnancy rates explode*
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Jul 11, 2018 16:37
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It's basically a boomer meme, like holding an aspirin between your knees. Like most "common sense solutions," it's utterly without value. It's also goddamn insane that they're allowed to present it in schools. It'd be like a driver's education class that begins and ends with how to secure a bus pass.
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Jul 11, 2018 16:37
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You don't need seat belts, everyone just drive perfectly all the time and there will never be a problem, that's the medically correct solution to traffic accident injuries.
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Jul 11, 2018 16:41
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moths posted:It's basically a boomer meme, like holding an aspirin between your knees. Like most "common sense solutions," it's utterly without value. More like a driver's license test that begins with "you should never leave your home, here's how to look up services that ship all basic necessities to you when you order online."
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Jul 11, 2018 17:21
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moths posted:It's basically a boomer meme, like holding an aspirin between your knees. Like most "common sense solutions," it's utterly without value. that driver's education course would lead to a lot less accidents, tbf
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Jul 11, 2018 17:51
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my plan relies on teens not being horny it's a good plan
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Jul 11, 2018 17:55
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:No, not really. It's a matter of framing. "Abstinence always works" frames all other forms of birth control as failures of the method, but failures of abstinence as personal failures. Which is an ethical judgment, not a scientific measurement; the error rate on condoms is almost entirely user error also. All birth control failures are failures of the method. I'm not at all in favor of abstinence only education. Its bullshit. All the numbers should be provided.
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Jul 11, 2018 17:56
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ilkhan posted:Thus the difference between perfect use and actual use. As you say, perfect use condoms or pill are also almost 100% effective. Reality is a different number. Both numbers should be provided. There is a zero percent chance of becoming infected with HIV, if your partner doesn't have HIV Should we tell them this super-important number, along with the infection rate if he or she IS infected with HIV? Giving misleading information to children is dumb.
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Jul 11, 2018 18:18
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ilkhan posted:But at that point you aren't abstaining any longer. Public health science and medical policymaking doesn't abstract biology from society. We're beings living in a society and it is useless to look at humans in vacuum in those contexts. "Drive carefully" vs "Wear a seatbelt" Not a perfect metaphor--wearing a seatbelt is a part of driving safely--but imagine telling your kid to either drive paranoid and remain unprotected by a buckle or drive normally and wear a buckle. I'm hoping the difference is clear despite the imperfections of 
Potato Salad fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Jul 11, 2018 |
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Jul 11, 2018 18:21
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Abstinence-only Sex Ed is such puritanical nonsense. I remember working with a guy who opposed teaching about condoms and birth control because "WE SHOULDN'T TEACH KIDS TO AVOID CONSEQUENCES OF IMMORAL BEHAVIOR"  Wxhode posted:I get it, abstinence is to teen pregnancy as gun bans are to gun violence.  Between this and whining about potentially paying for other's misfortune with UHC, you're really shaping up into an adorable little troll.
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Jul 11, 2018 18:39
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ilkhan posted:But at that point you aren't abstaining any longer. They aren’t in med school.
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Jul 11, 2018 18:41
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My favorite part of "abstinence only" is it usually comes from religious fundamentalists, particularly Christians, who believe that a virgin woman was impregnated by God. It also ignores rape... though I guess someone who is raped should have just practiced abstinence harder?
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Jul 11, 2018 18:47
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The female body has ways to shut that whole thing down, if it's a legitimate rape of course (not if she's a lying skank) E: or it was God's will to create that child so He had to arrange the rape to carry out the Divine Plan VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Jul 11, 2018 |
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Jul 11, 2018 18:52
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Devor posted:Same-sex marriage? You don't have to be married for homosexuality to be effective birth control  Discendo Vox posted:There are a number of other 100% effective methods of birth control...such as abortion. This is a good answer as well. E: Lest we forget, Kavanaugh is a loving monster on abortion rights (for "illegals") From his dissent that an undocumented minor has the right to seek abortion: quote:Kavanaugh wrote the Supreme Court has held that "the government has permissible interests in favoring fetal life, protecting the best interests of a minor, and refraining from facilitating abortion." He wrote that the high court has "held that the government may further those interests so long as it does not impose an undue burden on a woman seeking an abortion." He said the majority opinion was "based on a constitutional principle as novel as it is wrong: a new right for unlawful immigrant minors in US government detention to obtain immediate abortion on demand." He added, however, that "all parties to this case recognize Roe v. Wade and Planned Parenthood v. Casey as precedents we must follow." So, "Row v. Wade" is correct precedent, but immigrants only have a "new right" to abortion. Specifically, women have a "right" to abortion, but the state has a vested, valid interest in ensuring they can't get one. 
Stickman fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Jul 11, 2018 |
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Jul 11, 2018 18:53
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Mr. Nice! posted:Just looked it up and KY is tied for the #15 state with the highest rate of teen pregnancy in the country at 62/1000. The highest state NM, is 80/1000 while the best state, New Hampshire, is 28/1000. Initially misread those numbers as being out of 100 and enjoyed a moment of idiotic knit-brow concern.
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Jul 11, 2018 18:57
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Raldikuk posted:It also ignores rape... though I guess someone who is raped should have just practiced abstinence harder? Usually what follows is: "She was asking for it"
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Jul 11, 2018 18:59
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She had a beer, should have just drank water. She had her soda spiked, should not have been at a party. She was walking home from school, why was she alone in the middle of 8pm at night. She was underaged and assaulted, she dated upwards of three individuals clearly a slut. I think you finally get an end-of line when it's, like, She Was 7, but then again there were "I was 9 and my aunt/grandmother/mother knew and they resented me for it and hated me" so even then 
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Jul 11, 2018 19:08
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just give all teens forums accounts problem solved
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Jul 11, 2018 20:35
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Jesus loving christ, I saw 40 new posts in the SCOTUS thread and thought something exciting happened. Instead I feel like I'm back in 2002.
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Jul 12, 2018 00:35
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Kavanaugh has a gambling addiction*. *bought $100k worth of "baseball tickets" on credit and had a 'friend' suddenly pay it off.
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Jul 12, 2018 00:59
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Tibalt posted:Kavanaugh has a gambling addiction*. from an investigator standpoint it's always questionable when a long-term habit-incurred debt gets suddenly paid off even if it isn't strangely timed to coincide with talk about kennedy retiring
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Jul 12, 2018 02:38
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Oh wow a Trump administration pick with bizarre and mysteriously incomplete financial disclosures somehow feels like non-news. That he went into credit card debt to buy tickets for all his friends, and got it paid off the year he could go onto the Supreme Court, now that's some funny business.
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Jul 12, 2018 03:48
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Sodomy Hussein posted:Oh wow a Trump administration pick with bizarre and mysteriously incomplete financial disclosures somehow feels like non-news. That he went into credit card debt to buy tickets for all his friends, and got it paid off the year he could go onto the Supreme Court, now that's some funny business. I'm sure the Senate will ask the hard questions to ensure he is on the up-and-up
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Jul 12, 2018 03:55
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So are all his assets hiding in an offshore account or does he really have about as many reportable assets as my broke 30 year old rear end, JFC
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Jul 12, 2018 04:00
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Sodomy Hussein posted:Oh wow a Trump administration pick with bizarre and mysteriously incomplete financial disclosures somehow feels like non-news. That he went into credit card debt to buy tickets for all his friends, and got it paid off the year he could go onto the Supreme Court, now that's some funny business. I hope some senator calls him out and specifically tells him to have the statements sent directly from the banks.
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Jul 12, 2018 04:03
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Sodomy Hussein posted:Oh wow a Trump administration pick with bizarre and mysteriously incomplete financial disclosures somehow feels like non-news. That he went into credit card debt to buy tickets for all his friends, and got it paid off the year he could go onto the Supreme Court, now that's some funny business.
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Jul 12, 2018 06:27
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ShadowHawk posted:The claim is that this was buying season tickets in bulk and then getting reimbursed from friends. Gotta get those reward dollars! Seems like the sort of thing that even the most basic paper trail should prove without a shadow of a doubt. We're never going to find out, are we.
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Jul 12, 2018 06:35
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ShadowHawk posted:The claim is that this was buying season tickets in bulk and then getting reimbursed from friends. Gotta get those reward dollars! No, he was doing that old scam where you could use your air-miles credit card to order boxes of dollar coins from the US Mint with free shipping, then immediately taking the coins to the bank to deposit them and pay off the credit card except at some point he just forgot to take them to the bank and then the credit card companies caught onto it and stopped giving out miles.
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Jul 12, 2018 07:01
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OntGZN-W7SM
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Jul 12, 2018 09:59
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Discendo Vox posted:*ahem* speaking as the expert, technically correct answers require a proper adherence to all precedential information and contextual elements. Speaking in terms of technical accuracy, can abstinence even be classified as birth control at the outset? Isn't birth control by definition prevention of pregnancy as a result of sexual activity? Abstinence is the prevention of the sexual activity itself, which is not the same as prevention of pregnancy as the result of sexual activity. To use a car analogy, it's the difference between preventing crashes by never driving a car compared to for instance having functioning brakes. Never driving is non-participation which is not equivalent to crash prevention, and it would be absurd to conflate the two. Or like a dog preventing tax fraud by never delivering a tax return if we want to get really absurd - that's 100% effective too. No dog has ever been found guilty of tax fraud, but then again they are not participants either so we don't count that as preventing tax fraud.
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Jul 12, 2018 11:11
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