|
luxury handset posted:food containers in contact with raw ingredients need to be cleaned and refreshed every four hours. how long does it take to shut this thing down, open it up, disassemble it, clean the parts, and reassemble? you can do a salad bar in 5-10 minutes depending, so eyeballing it i'd say this thing could be done in about 10 minutes if it was designed to be easy to take apart and put back together. It looks like the parts that touch food are separate from the mechanics. It looks like most ingredients only directly touch the plastic tubes and a slicing plate knife thing before touching the burger, and everything else is separated by plastic walls. So the reasonable design for cleaning would be just to own multiple tube/knife sets and just switch them out regularly to clean at your leisure. Which would probably also be how you restock them as they empty. Just pull off the empty tube, replace it with a clean tube, wash the old tube and refill it for later. So that doesn't really seem any particular problem any more than any other machine in a kitchen. The parts that touch the food seem simple enough. All the servos and stuff seem like they are kept out of the food.
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 03:31
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 15:38 |
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:It looks like the parts that touch food are separate from the mechanics. It looks like most ingredients only directly touch the plastic tubes and a slicing plate knife thing before touching the burger, and everything else is separated by plastic walls. it does make sense to design the raw veg and sauce hoppers and knives as cartridges but cleaning this thing is honestly the least of my worries about how it operates. i'd also be interested to see the raw meat hoppers or patty trays because the time on raw meat is way stricter (like an hour if you're nervous about it, two hours is the max for animal products at room temp) so if there's someone feeding meat into this thing by hand every few orders that really also undercuts the labor savings
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 03:38
|
|
|
i found an earlier prototype diagram of their machine with some, uh, ambitious claims:format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/6734921/momentummachines.0.jpg) notably -unprecedented, never before seen burger cooking methods -400 burgers an hour (down to 120) -fresh custom blends of meat? so this thing just has different grades and types of meat sitting inside an automatic grinder at room temp? 
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 03:46
|
|
|
luxury handset posted:it does make sense to design the raw veg and sauce hoppers and knives as cartridges but cleaning this thing is honestly the least of my worries about how it operates. i'd also be interested to see the raw meat hoppers or patty trays because the time on raw meat is way stricter (like an hour if you're nervous about it, two hours is the max for animal products at room temp) so if there's someone feeding meat into this thing by hand every few orders that really also undercuts the labor savings Two hours seems like plenty of time and the answer is probably the same for everything: separate the delicate/complex/expensive mechanics from the food and make sure everything the food touches is simple surfaces on modular parts that you swap out regularly as a big chunk. Plus, I mean, if they really wanted I'm sure you could refrigerate the meat, it wouldn't be space aged technology to put the meat storage in a box that is in a box that stays at 40 degrees.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 04:15
|
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:Internet says the average wait time at mcdonalds is 3:30 so it doesn't even seem like five minutes is incomparably longer. It's over 40% slower. Major throughput killer.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 04:22
|
|
|
fishmech posted:It's over 40% slower. Major throughput killer. I guess this current machine would be unsuitable for mcdonalds then? I don't know what point you have. Lots of restaurants are viable with serving times over 3 minutes and 30 seconds and this restaurant doesn't seem to serve mcdonalds like food or in a mcdonalds like setting. Nearly every restaurant on earth is longer wait time than mcdonalds is. Being only 40% longer for an infinity percent higher quality burger seems like a positive and no a failing. I imagine a burger machine aiming to make mcdonalds style burgers with presliced buns and preformed patties would only run quicker than this one.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 05:02
|
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:Being only 40% longer for an infinity percent higher quality burger seems like a positive and no a failing. i see the deliberate marketing tactic that "the burger uses only the freshest, most exquisite, highest quality ingredients" has found fertile ground this device is not faster than fast food. it is not cheaper than fast casual. it is not higher quality than a gourmet burger joint. it serves no real niche unless you want to watch a machine assemble your burger instead of a human being. it has about the same marketing appeal as a burger chain which delivers food to your table on an elaborate model train network. we cut out the unnecessary food runner and pass the savings directly to you! (every other job in the restaurant remains exactly as it is) just for shits i looked up some other prices - the boutique fast casual joint smashburger starts their basic burger at around five bucks. the local farm to table burger joint using fresh, local ingredients which actually is a for real profitable business starts at $8. i just dont know who this stupid burger device is even for except the easily impressed. it's basically an easy bake oven for people who own google glass Mr. Fall Down Terror fucked around with this message at 05:11 on Jul 12, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 05:06
|
|
|
luxury handset posted:i see the deliberate marketing tactic that "the burger uses only the freshest, most exquisite, highest quality ingredients" has found fertile ground Six dollars and five minutes is far cheaper and faster than nearly anywhere. have you never eaten anywhere but mcdonalds?
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 05:13
|
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:Six dollars and five minutes is far cheaper and faster than nearly anywhere it really isn't and i'm not going to get into a silly argument with you about subjective fast food experiences when you demonstrate very little understanding of how restaurants actually work. especially about a restaurant which isn't even open right now, and isn't trying to turn a profit five minutes is a totally normal time to cook a burger and if you have ever in your life cooked a burger you would know this. like when they said "it takes our device five minutes from order to completion" i'm like no poo poo, that's how long it takes to make a burger Mr. Fall Down Terror fucked around with this message at 05:18 on Jul 12, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 05:15
|
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:I guess this current machine would be unsuitable for mcdonalds then? It's unsuitable for fast food. They're trying to say it would be useful for fast food. Owlofcreamcheese posted:Six dollars and five minutes is far cheaper and faster than nearly anywhere. have you never eaten anywhere but mcdonalds? Ain't cheaper and faster than Checkers/Rally's, Wendy's, Burger King, In N Out, Hardee's/Carl's Jr, Dairy Queen, Sonic, Jack In The Box, generic diners and local restaraunts... Part of the whole point of the hamburger/cheeseburger as a massively popular food in the US and many other countries is that it's very fast to make. The other part is that they're very cheap to make. This machine makes burgers slower and more expensive than your cousin who goes to work stoned out of his gourd.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 05:21
|
|
|
fishmech posted:This machine makes burgers slower and more expensive than your cousin who goes to work stoned out of his gourd. to be fair it makes burgers at about the same speed with inflexible throughput at the same price point. so it's a direct competitor of other fast casual chains with the additional gimmick that instead of some guy putting your burger together its a machine producing a nearly identical product. i mean if i'm correct in my assumption that $6 is the at cost price, and a good chunk of that is higher quality ingredients, that is about typical because the real money in burger joints is in selling incredibly cheap sides like fries and soft drinks at 400% markup all you have to do is fluff it up with some vague woo about how the labor costs are cheaper so we can afford to spend more on higher quality ingredients and let that nerd placebo work its magic
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 05:29
|
|
|
fishmech posted:It's unsuitable for fast food. They're trying to say it would be useful for fast food. This thread is so schizophrenic. The price is so cheap it can be dismissed out of hand as fake but also is higher than every restaurant on earth?
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 05:32
|
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:This thread is so schizophrenic. The price is so cheap it can be dismissed out of hand as fake but also is higher than every restaurant on earth? Stop ranting about strawmen. The thing is useless for fast food because it's too slow and too expensive. It's also useless for most fast casual services as it is again too slow and too expensive for how most of them operate.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 06:03
|
|
|
Whoever gave owl that avatar is evil. I only noticed the difference when I thought fishmech is literally arguing with fishmech 
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 07:02
|
|
|
fishmech posted:Stop ranting about strawmen. The thing is useless for fast food because it's too slow and too expensive. It's also useless for most fast casual services as it is again too slow and too expensive for how most of them operate. You are being crazy. Fast food hamburgers are regularly over 6 dollars. And don't come with fresh ground meat that is custom spiced and your choice of pickled plums and oyster aoli on a fresh buttered and toasted bun. Here is some price watch thing for california burgerkings: 
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 14:18
|
|
|
If a prototype shows that something isn't useful, then the prototype itself was useful.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 14:20
|
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:You are being crazy. Fast food hamburgers are regularly over 6 dollars. And don't come with fresh ground meat that is custom spiced and your choice of pickled plums and oyster aoli on a fresh buttered and toasted bun. just pointing out again that your argument dances over the line between fast food and fast casual whenever it is convenient to you like you aren't even aware of the difference. smashburger definitely uses fresh ground meat and sells their burgers at a profit for less than six bucks (the basic burger is a loss leader) so the tiny burger factory isn't even impressive in that regard. the marketing inherent in this article has clearly landed deep within your soul the way you boast dutifully about the inherent tastiness of a burger you've never eaten. kudos to whoever organized the press push for this gimmick, they knew exactly how to capture the attention of the arstechnica set
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 15:06
|
|
|
luxury handset posted:just pointing out again that your argument dances over the line between fast food and fast casual whenever it is convenient to you like you aren't even aware of the difference. There is no differance in this marketing term you have latched onto. Its just what people call fast food now when they open a fast food resturant because the word has negetive connotations. Its not a real thing.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 15:11
|
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:There is no differance in this marketing term you have latched onto. Its just what people call fast food now when they open a fast food resturant because the word has negetive connotations. Its not a real thing. ok well you better tell the foodservice industry that according to oocc they are wrong and dont exist https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_casual_restaurant i know that ignoring things you dont like a thing you do but actively denying reality is a new and worrying step
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 15:14
|
|
|
luxury handset posted:ok well you better tell the foodservice industry that according to oocc they are wrong and dont exist Subway and Chipotle both use the exact same ordering structure. But one is fast food and one is fast causal because no one wants to open a fast food restaurant after a bunch of bad restaurants (like subway) soured people on the term.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 15:22
|
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:You are being crazy. Fast food hamburgers are regularly over 6 dollars. Nope, they're typically under $2.50.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 15:55
|
|
|
Why are you all going so hard about the inflated price of terrible food?
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 16:07
|
|
|
Based on the article it sounds like they're targeting the fast casual market since the burgers sound not-poo poo. $6 for a good quality/fast casual burger sounds like a decent price. That's about where Five Guys is at or maybe a little lower than them depending on the exact burger.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 16:11
|
|
|
i am harry posted:Why are you all going so hard about the inflated price of terrible food? well the original subject was this automated tiny burger factory that is just a gimmick for people who love little dollhouse production lines and that's 100% on topic. but then an attempt was made to muddy the waters about cost and price before suddenly that didn't matter any more, so  i still want to know how often this thing breaks down, since according to the creators own words any sort of work stoppage would also be a business stoppage. which is fine for a factory when you can stockpile inventory but not so much when your customers are hungrily waiting at the factory gate for your product
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 16:11
|
|
|
It's a machine for making finished hamburgers on-site, not making patties to be frozen and shipped wherever. That video you posted originally completely missed the point.quote:what new technology? robots have been able to make a burger for decades.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 16:17
|
|
|
Cicero posted:It's a machine for making finished hamburgers on-site, not making patties to be frozen and shipped wherever. That video you posted originally completely missed the point. that's because there's no reason to shrink a factory until you lose all efficiency of scale just so you can have a tiny toy factory doing a thing at the same pace as a human being with the same cost. like, there's no huge innovative step here that this guy invented a gimmick restaurant based on creating a miniature factory. it's the purse dog of production lines the strongest argument for this thing to exist is that it could possibly, maybe be iterated to be more efficient (after eight years of development and it's just as good as an entry level worker with minimal training?) and also that it's a hell of a marketing hook for your restaurant to stand out in the intensely crowded fast casual burger market also i just noticed that it looks like fred flintstone's car 
Mr. Fall Down Terror fucked around with this message at 16:25 on Jul 12, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 16:21
|
|
|
fishmech posted:Nope, they're typically under $2.50. I'm unclear why this robot would not also be able to make a cheaper burger if that is all you would eat. Just swap the oyster aoli tube for a bigmac sauce tube then switch the greyare cheese with a block of hydrogenated oil american cheese and replace the fresh organic beef with some frozen gristle or whatever. They could just not use fresh tomatoes and just skip the Pacific sauce with umeboshi plum and mole if they want to serve your "only the lowest price menu item at mcdonalds" goal. But they aren't even doing that market. They are competing against the burger king hamburger that costs 8 dollars, and more realistically competing against literally every other restaurant that already exists and doesn't have mcdonalds like prices. The price of six dollars is cheaper than some mcdonalds hamburgers already, if it was made with mcdonalds ingredients it would be cheaper still.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 16:33
|
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:I'm unclear why this robot would not also be able to make a cheaper burger if that is all you would eat. Just swap the oyster aoli tube for a bigmac sauce tube then switch the greyare cheese with a block of hydrogenated oil american cheese and replace the fresh organic beef with some frozen gristle or whatever. They could just not use fresh tomatoes and just skip the Pacific sauce with umeboshi plum and mole if they want to serve your "only the lowest price menu item at mcdonalds" goal. But they aren't even doing that market. They are competing against the burger king hamburger that costs 8 dollars, and more realistically competing against literally every other restaurant that already exists and doesn't have mcdonalds like prices. Because the robot is expensive garbage, op.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 16:38
|
|
|
Sauces include: Pacific Sauce (a CA riff on Thousand Island, with umeboshi and mole); Oyster Aioli, Charred Onion Jam, Sunflower Tahini, Pancetta Aioli, Garlic Sauce, Smoky Ketchup, Garlic Aioli, Hickory Smoked Jalapeņo Sauce, Truffle Parm Fonduta, Blue Cheese Fonduta Seasonings: Alderwood Smoked Sea Salt, Persian Lime Pepper, Tellicherry Black Pepper, Cascabel Coffee, Bootjack BBQ, Truffle salt, Jalapeņo sea salt UGG why would anyone get this for 6 dollars? I can just go to mcdonalds!!!
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 16:45
|
|
|
ingredients include: unicorn horn, the tears of an angel, the prepuce of Christ, the word of an honest man, spiders web spun during a full moon, a smile from a child, zephyr wind blown from the Holy Mountain i do really appreciate this extremely Bay Area Culture mashup of bespoke artisinal ingredients assembled by a cold unfeeling machine. the best of both worlds!
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 16:48
|
|
|
luxury handset posted:ingredients include: unicorn horn, the tears of an angel, the prepuce of Christ, the word of an honest man, spiders web spun during a full moon, a smile from a child, zephyr wind blown from the Holy Mountain Yeah it's almost like a bunch of very niche ingredients with complicated names are a good demonstration of why you would want a touch screen ordering system and a computer making the order instead of various people trying to speak out a hundred syllable orders to get your specific combo of Barbecue sauce, charred onion jam, ballpark mustard, alderwood smoked salt, chipotle sea salt, smoked cheddar, double pickles, onion and tomato with fried romanesco and cauliflower and a ginger-lemongrass soda.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 16:57
|
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:Yeah it's almost like a bunch of very niche ingredients with complicated names are a good demonstration of why you would want a touch screen ordering system and a computer making the order instead of various people trying to speak out a hundred syllable orders to get your specific combo of Barbecue sauce, charred onion jam, ballpark mustard, alderwood smoked salt, chipotle sea salt, smoked cheddar, double pickles, onion and tomato with fried romanesco and cauliflower and a ginger-lemongrass soda. is your argument now that you dont know how to pronounce 'aioli' that has nothing to do with the many reasons this machine is dumb that you have given up on engaging with. i'm not interested in your food critic cosplay Mr. Fall Down Terror fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Jul 12, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 16:59
|
|
|
luxury handset posted:is your argument now that you dont know how to pronounce 'aioli' It's the same issue as the coke fusion thing earlier, the guy getting 1/3rd cherry coke, 1/4th vanilla coke and the rest regular coke is giving an extremely specific and picky over exact order if he tried to give it to a person but that is a totally simple and reasonable order for a machine to take and deliver. Like the order from the article I copied had "alderwood smoked salt, chipotle sea salt" and in person I can't imagine an order of that turning into anything but "wait, you want two salts? or is that second salt replacing what you said first? do you mean you want double salt or do you mean you want half and half of two salts?" but that wouldn't be at all hard to get right ordering online or something.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 17:06
|
|
|
it is not a very compelling argument oocc if you base it around some theoretical difficulty in speaking to strangers
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 17:07
|
|
|
luxury handset posted:it is not a very compelling argument oocc if you base it around some theoretical difficulty in speaking to strangers That extremely specific orders are something you'd only get from a fancy restaurant or from an annoying or disruptful customer but is something you can just do inherently with an automated system is a reasonable claim.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 17:21
|
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:That extremely specific orders are something you'd only get from a fancy restaurant or from an annoying or disruptful customer but is something you can just do inherently with an automated system is a reasonable claim. the burger making process doesn't need to be automated. that is a distinct system from the ordering process. pretty much every restaurant in america has an "automated" ordering process, whether it is a cashier or the customer operating the touchscreen also your completely silly argument is leaning towards being easier to use for people who mumble or can't maintain eye contact with strangers. i expect that next you're going to go further off on a wild tangent and claim the pointless minifactory is somehow ADA compliant or something weird like that
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 17:24
|
|
|
luxury handset posted:also your completely silly argument is leaning towards being easier to use for people who mumble or can't maintain eye contact with strangers Oh no, that would be the worst thing! Helping people with speech problems or social issues.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 17:37
|
|
|
It's not. But touchscreen/app ordering is so so so so much more ADA compliant than the drat menu boards.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 17:37
|
|
|
luxury handset posted:the burger making process doesn't need to be automated Why not? it's a menial task that is performed many millions of times per day just in the US. That's a prime target for automation. It can be made to be done faster and cheaper, and will free people from doing that awful task, particularly in fast food. Obviously there's a big side-discussion here about how society handles a lot of jobs disappearing but that's a separate topic that we've gone over a lot in this thread already so I'm going to avoid it. luxury handset posted:that's because there's no reason to shrink a factory until you lose all efficiency of scale just so you can have a tiny toy factory doing a thing at the same pace as a human being with the same cost. like, there's no huge innovative step here that this guy invented a gimmick restaurant based on creating a miniature factory. it's the purse dog of production lines Exactly where are you getting the numbers that say this is the same cost as a human being? It does not take much for a machine to be cheaper than a human. And even if this one isn't (none of us know that), it's very short-sighted to assume it never will be. One of the biggest features of the current phase of the technological revolution we're going through is flattening the curve on economies of scale. Big, highly optimized factories will of course still be ideal for certain tasks, but we can bring up the other end of the curve and reduce costs on small scales. This happens in a lot of ways - 3D printing, sophisticated software, computer vision, advanced robotics equipment, etc. This allows complex tasks to be done on small-ish scales at a much cheaper price per unit than before. To pull some numbers completely out of my rear end, say this machine does the work of two people in the same amount of time, and it costs $30,000. Congrats, it's now significantly cheaper than human labor and will pay for itself in a few months. It's probably not there yet, but first generations of something new rarely are. I'm not sure why that's so hard for you to grasp. This is like people making GBS threads all over the first car and saying it'll never take off because it's slower and more difficult to maintain than horses. Like, no poo poo, it was the first version of something completely new. And before you say that robots have been making food - not like this they haven't. Factories have been pumping out bulk, prepackaged, specifically prepared foods for decades. Robots haven't been doing all or nearly-all of the cooking and assembling of a relatively complex and highly variable meal as a last-step before reaching the consumer. Don't be disingenuous.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 18:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 15:38 |
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMIkWyiJp0k the best part about this video is the kid that is so retarded as to believe flippy has passed the turing test
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2018 18:25
|
|