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BitBasher posted:Toured that place last year, it was pretty mind blowing the scale of stuff there. Yeah I remember going to see the 747-800 line and it was like oh cool there's one, two, three, four 747s nose to tail on this line, and a couple more on the side. And that's just the 747 line. And theres two 787 lines, a 767 tanker line, one (or two, I don't remember) 777 lines... The place is enormous!
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Jul 13, 2018 03:30
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BitBasher posted:
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Jul 13, 2018 03:33
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Finger Prince posted:Yeah I remember going to see the 747-800 line and it was like oh cool there's one, two, three, four 747s nose to tail on this line, and a couple more on the side. And that's just the 747 line. And theres two 787 lines, a 767 tanker line, one (or two, I don't remember) 777 lines... The place is enormous! And they can fit 4 of those planes end to end the short way across the narrow width of the building, with a whole pile of those lines in parallel the long way. The building is ridiculous and the cranes build into the ceiling for moving whole planes and sections are awesome. bawfuls posted:maybe because it was described by Tesla as a tent and has massive open ends? Okay then Tesla is kind of dumb for that.
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Jul 13, 2018 03:37
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it's a structure made of flexible material stretched over a frame, that's a tent 
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Jul 13, 2018 03:39
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bawfuls posted:it's a structure made of flexible material stretched over a frame, that's a tent So is Denver International Airport, and it's 20 something years old and holding up quite well.
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Jul 13, 2018 04:23
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Counterpoint: Hindenburg
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Jul 13, 2018 04:28
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I know it's cool to make fun of Tesla's safety culture, but I doubt they're filling it with hydrogen.
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Jul 13, 2018 04:48
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To be fair I think the tent has little to do with the fact that Tesla isn't making as many car as they should be and the ones they are making are of poor quality and unfinished by Tesla's own admission. I mean sure the tent isn't a good sign but I doubt even Tesla would admit that the tent is the reason they are literally spewing poo poo in their own house in the building with the walls and roof and everything.
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Jul 13, 2018 05:16
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Godholio posted:I know it's cool to make fun of Tesla's safety culture, but I doubt they're filling it with hydrogen. A techbro's hubris knows no bounds, my friend. Nobody here can say with 100% certainty that they're not holding the production tent up by filling it with hydrogen.
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Jul 13, 2018 05:31
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Powershift posted:A techbro's hubris knows no bounds, my friend. I mean... theoretically you COULD get away with smaller, cheaper supporting members.... My god.
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Jul 13, 2018 05:35
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The Sicilian posted:Just seems like a lot of children trying to deny someone else's success. I'm really trying to understand your position and not probate you for everything you say in this thread, but make it a little easier on me booboo. Like try not to be such an rear end in a top hat please and absolutely don't generalize AI as X who do Y because that's super against the rules. We can make this work. I believe in you.
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Jul 13, 2018 05:37
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Three Olives posted:I love this idea that Tesla single handedly created the market for electric cars. Hydrogen cars are electric cars, everyone was working on electric cars, GM's electric car program long predates Tesla. LOL It’s possible to give Tesla too much credit, but HFC vehicles is the worst counterexample.
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Jul 13, 2018 05:42
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Memories of the EV1 is totally what's driving the market today.
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Jul 13, 2018 05:46
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Godholio posted:Memories of the EV1 is totally what's driving the market today. Actually, it's clear that tesla stole all their ideas from the S-10 EV. Also, in researching this joke, i found out the Ranger EV used carbon fiber leaf springs, a De Dion tube, and watts link. I mean, it's basically a Ferrari 250 Testa Rossa 
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Jul 13, 2018 05:54
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Powershift posted:Actually, it's clear that tesla stole all their ideas from the S-10 EV. I saw one on the road and that axle is the first thing I noticed. Then I saw the EV badge.
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Jul 13, 2018 06:16
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I know pickup trucks are supposed to be all about The Most Everything In Class, including engine size/power/fuel consumption, but it seems to me there's an awful lot of unused space on them that could be filled with battery packs, like between the frame rails for one. I know the target demographic would never buy one because you'd might not be able to drive across Texas with a herd of cattle in the bed in one, and some of the potential payload would be eaten up by the battery weight so it couldn't claim to have the Best Payload In Class. I just want a PHEV Tacoma.
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Jul 13, 2018 14:23
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I’d take an EV F150 with 900lb of batteries in a shallow bed that only retained enough payload capacity for Home Depot, hauling bikes, and camping trips, which is all the use I’ve had for trucks I’ve owned. Jam some more under/behind the rear seats and give rear passengers only a fuckload instead of a fuckton of legroom.
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Jul 13, 2018 14:29
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some portion of the truck market buys trucks for towing boats/sleds/etc which is not great for BEV and plus you can't dickmeasure as well but yeah there's definitely a market for a battery powered utility vehicle roomforthetuna posted:There are several people on adjacent teams who are "industry veterans", who consistently try to make subsystems running Windows as the controller, because that's the industry standard way robotics is done, and whose model of sequencing things is to introduce increasing numbers of timing loops. (My team prefers to add a sensor wherever things need to be sequenced, so if something doesn't get where it's supposed to be, the next thing doesn't happen, rather than producing a gigantic clusterfuck of cascading failures.) I don't think anyone is saying that there is not room for improvement in automation and that there is not room for improvement in how to build a car. My point is that a lot of their risks on automation were unnecessary and hurt the company in the long run. You already have a lot of product risk (that they worked through very well!), a lot of institutional knowledge gaps, and a lot of financial pressure going in to production. It's relatively easy to build a car through traditional Lean people and process focused assembly - at least there's a very clear roadmap for doing so and you can hire a bunch of people who will build you a perfectly good traditional line. Why take the risk? If you're just trying to build a better car factory, great - but if you're trying to build a better car, why do you need to build a better factory? If you're setting up a traditional manufacturing environment the Model 3 ships earlier in larger numbers with better built in quality, without sacrificing anything that makes it a good product. Is that the best possible manufacturing environment? No, but you don't need the best possible manufacturing environment to be successful. What industry is your joint's automation systems used in? Are you an automotive guy?
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Jul 13, 2018 16:20
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:What industry is your joint's automation systems used in? Are you an automotive guy?
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Jul 13, 2018 16:33
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Outlander update : everything going well wife still loves the car got about 300 miles on it so far maybe 20 miles had the gas engine running. Fast charging takes like 20 mins so I just hang out with the car then move it to a nearby regular parking spot. Jack-holes that live near the mall love plugging in all night and just leave their car there because its free charging for now. There was even this Model S when the drat Tesla dealership paid for specific Tesla chargers that he could use instead.
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Jul 13, 2018 17:38
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Finger Prince posted:I know pickup trucks are supposed to be all about The Most Everything In Class, including engine size/power/fuel consumption, but it seems to me there's an awful lot of unused space on them that could be filled with battery packs, like between the frame rails for one. I know the target demographic would never buy one because you'd might not be able to drive across Texas with a herd of cattle in the bed in one, and some of the potential payload would be eaten up by the battery weight so it couldn't claim to have the Best Payload In Class. I just want a PHEV Tacoma. My friend, let me introduce you to the Workhorse W-15 pickup. It's not a pure EV since it has a gas range extender, but it claims 80 electric miles.
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Jul 13, 2018 17:46
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Shooting for $52k before incentives somehow seems less crazy when full-size pickups seem to often end up so expensive anyways.
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Jul 13, 2018 17:54
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:My friend, let me introduce you to the Workhorse W-15 pickup. It's not a pure EV since it has a gas range extender, but it claims 80 electric miles. That's cool! It's a bit uggo, but that's exactly the type of thing I'm talking about! I'll bet that step van would make a pretty cool camper conversion too...
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Jul 13, 2018 18:51
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:some portion of the truck market buys trucks for towing boats/sleds/etc which is not great for BEV and plus you can't dickmeasure as well
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Jul 13, 2018 18:59
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bawfuls posted:wait what? EVs ought to be great for towing, what with all the low end torque I thought the problem was that it drains the battery insanely quickly.
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Jul 13, 2018 19:07
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Peachfart posted:I thought the problem was that it drains the battery insanely quickly.
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Jul 13, 2018 19:15
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Finger Prince posted:I know the target demographic would never buy one because you'd might not be able to drive across Texas with a herd of cattle in the bed in one, and some of the potential payload would be eaten up by the battery weight so it couldn't claim to have the Best Payload In Class. I just want a PHEV Tacoma. A PHEV F-150 with a Volt style drivetrain, with the added option of acting like an on-site generator and a battery UPS, would sell like hot cakes. Duty cycle isn’t the same, and you’d need to be able to drive worksite equipment from it, but there’s a market.
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Jul 13, 2018 19:27
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This would sell like hot cakes. Ford is introducing an PHEV on the F-150 for just that reason. If it makes a decent difference in mileage without reducing power, they'll have a winner.
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Jul 13, 2018 19:41
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ilkhan posted:This would sell like hot cakes. Ford is introducing an PHEV on the F-150 for just that reason. If it makes a decent difference in mileage without reducing power, they'll have a winner. There's no reason they couldn't use the same system in the mustang, f-150, bronco and aviator meaning 500ish hp and turbos for everybody!
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Jul 13, 2018 20:28
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Powershift posted:There's no reason they couldn't use the same system in the mustang, f-150, bronco and aviator meaning 500ish hp and turbos for everybody! The issue is, they haven't previously, and beyond the F150, they don't seem likely to.
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Jul 13, 2018 21:51
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Powershift posted:There's no reason they couldn't use the same system in the mustang, f-150, bronco and aviator meaning 500ish hp and turbos for everybody!
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Jul 13, 2018 22:01
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drgitlin posted:No, they were part of the “alien dreadnought” that didn’t work: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/06/elon-musk-says-tesla-will-make-a-profit-in-q3-2018/ Ok, heard back from them; there are three Model 3 GA lines right now.
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Jul 13, 2018 22:17
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bawfuls posted:wait what? EVs ought to be great for towing, what with all the low end torque and the six yard range while towing is pretty dope too
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Jul 13, 2018 22:25
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 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5j8K5RdW6I It's around 70% of the EPA rated range when towing 5000lbs in a X.
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Jul 13, 2018 22:38
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ratbert90 posted:
I tow with my X and see the same if not better numbers. Mine is a tiny 1000lbs trailer. THAT BEING SAID, a super aero Bolus and a tiny camping trailer really are nothing like towing a boat or trailers that are both heavy and as aerodynamic as a brick.
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Jul 13, 2018 22:48
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eeenmachine posted:I tow with my X and see the same if not better numbers. Mine is a tiny 1000lbs trailer. THAT BEING SAID, a super aero Bolus and a tiny camping trailer really are nothing like towing a boat or trailers that are both heavy and as aerodynamic as a brick. Fair enough. Towing a gigantic boat with the X will get you down to 61~ miles of range going Freeway speeds. https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-x-range-impact-towing/ However, I am not sure what X model that was.
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Jul 13, 2018 23:15
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I don't think anyone is saying that there is not room for improvement in automation and that there is not room for improvement in how to build a car. My point is that a lot of their risks on automation were unnecessary and hurt the company in the long run.  quote:If you're just trying to build a better car factory, great - but if you're trying to build a better car, why do you need to build a better factory? But yeah, I see your point, it does seem foolish to take five simultaneous risks rather than doing the risks one or two at a time so you can back out of the ones that aren't working out without loving everything up. quote:What industry is your joint's automation systems used in? Are you an automotive guy? Really the only interesting part of the story is that any robots you can buy are still supernaturally bad at doing anything that isn't repeating a preprogrammed sequence of motions, much much worse than you would imagine. Even mobile warehouse kind of robots are pretty poo poo, they have to be completely rebooted in order to update their navigation map, and the best they do for obstacle avoidance is stopping and hoping for the obstacle to get out of the way. (And it had better be a ground-level obstacle because otherwise it'll just smash right into it.) The industry of robotics really needed to hire some game developers ten years ago and have them be in charge not just of software but of the hardware decisions too.
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Jul 14, 2018 00:10
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Ford is going to have a hybrid F-150 and a hybrid Mustang. They have repeatedly announced them. Coming in 2020. https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/03/heres-fords-badly-needed-plan-to-catch-up-on-hybrid-and-electric-cars/
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Jul 14, 2018 00:17
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blugu64 posted:A PHEV F-150 with a Volt style drivetrain, with the added option of acting like an on-site generator and a battery UPS, would sell like hot cakes. Duty cycle isn’t the same, and you’d need to be able to drive worksite equipment from it, but there’s a market. That's what the Workhorse W-15 is. 80-mile electric range, gasoline range extender, built-in 7kW electrical port for running tools or whatever.
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Jul 14, 2018 01:12
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drgitlin posted:Ford is going to have a hybrid F-150 and a hybrid Mustang. They have repeatedly announced them. Coming in 2020. And Aviator and Bronco, which is why i said what i said. The Aviator will be longitudinal RWD based, and have a plug-in hybrid option. They will probably using the same system in the mustang and f-150. quote:The Lincoln powertrain is designed for clients interested in options. A twin-turbocharged engine can be paired with the brand’s first advanced plug-in hybrid technology, marking the first time the company will offer a plug-in hybrid powertrain mated to a twin-turbocharged engine. This combination of power and electrified capability will help Aviator deliver Lincoln’s quietest, smoothest, most powerful drive yet.
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Jul 14, 2018 03:13
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