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The MCU has got to get around to Nextwave at some point, and I'm already in the ticket queue.
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Jul 13, 2018 09:44
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Aphrodite posted:Cap was already a fascist in the Civil War movie. Fascists, well known for their opposition to government controlled registration systems and to the imprisonment of people who refuse to comply with the state. It's also not in any way "prescient" to make Cap a Nazi. Captain America isn't a symbol of what America is, he's a symbol of what America should be. There's been times when Steve Rogers has taken off the costume rather than represent an America that has lost its way.
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Jul 13, 2018 10:00
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PicklePants posted:Every Fantastic Four movie, pales in comparison to the 90s Fantastic Four Cartoon... and that's just.. sad. And they had a Hulk episode!
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Jul 13, 2018 10:14
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The short lived recent (2010 or so) cartoon for Fantastic 4 at least had a pretty interesting episode where they all swapped powers - Mr Fantastic offered to keep Ben's powers and his own switched while restoring Sue and Johnny. Also, there were personality aspects that switched too, so at one point Johnny makes a sardonic response and just interrupts himself with "Oh, I'm sorry, that was mean. NO no! That was FUNNY!" and occasionally Sue blurts out some idiotic quip. also there was a funny moment where Sue accidentally turns some debris into flaming wreckage, and this exchange happens: Johnny: You tried to make a forcefield didn't you? Sue:Shut up... I thought that that cartoon was amusing.
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Jul 13, 2018 10:42
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Jedit posted:Fascists, well known for their opposition to government controlled registration systems and to the imprisonment of people who refuse to comply with the state. He's only opposed to that when he's not the one making the call. Jedit posted:Captain America isn't a symbol of what America is, he's a symbol of what America should be. That's a retcon. Aphrodite has a new favorite as of 13:10 on Jul 13, 2018 |
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Jul 13, 2018 13:06
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And much like Captain America, the US looks sexier with a beard.
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Jul 13, 2018 13:08
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Last year Cap was secretly a member of Hydra (so, a nazi) and it pissed lots of people off. He took over the country and imposed facist rule and then like all things turns out he wasn't the real cap and everything is back to status quo. It sadly was an arc already written before things went tits-up in the real world and it was serridipidous. Aphrodite posted:That's a retcon. It's been that way since his re-boot in the 60's.
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Jul 13, 2018 14:08
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Ferrule posted:Last year Cap was secretly a member of Hydra (so, a nazi) and it pissed lots of people off. He took over the country and imposed facist rule and then like all things turns out he wasn't the real cap and everything is back to status quo. They basically already did that in a alternate universe story where Cap was revived in the 60s where another person had taken up the Captain America mantle and was basically leading America into a fascist state, and the original Cap beat the poo poo out of the imposter and gave that famous speech about how America's ideals are the only thing that gives the country and flag meaning, otherwise it's just another empire.
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Jul 13, 2018 14:35
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Honestly, everything about the main conflict of Civil War falls apart because the thing that leads the divide is aimed squarely at controlling the Avengers. In the comics it was a registration act that all supers would be affected by, so each side's leader made sense: Captain America believes in personal freedom, so he's pushing against something that reduces it, meanwhile Iron Man is demanding more structure and control because he's all about solving problems with structure and control, especially when he gets to control it. In the movie, because it's solely about them, putting those two on the same sides as they were originally just doesn't feel right. Cap isn't fighting for everyone's freedom, he's fighting for their freedom specifically, the Sokovia Accords don't affect anybody else. And Iron Man supporting them is even further out of character, because everything Tony Stark does before, during and after Civil War is him doing poo poo because he's deemed it The Right Thing To Do and refusing to relinquish control over anything (remember how he treats Spider-Man; he never stops acting like this even when saying they shouldn't). Neither characters' motivation makes sense, and honestly very few of the others do either. Also they can't play the 'whose side are you on' cards when the leader of only one side is in the movie's title. Even DC figured that part out, come on guys. ...I may have really disliked that movie.
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Jul 13, 2018 14:40
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Cleretic posted:Honestly, everything about the main conflict of Civil War falls apart because the thing that leads the divide is aimed squarely at controlling the Avengers. In the comics it was a registration act that all supers would be affected by, so each side's leader made sense: Captain America believes in personal freedom, so he's pushing against something that reduces it, meanwhile Iron Man is demanding more structure and control because he's all about solving problems with structure and control, especially when he gets to control it. It's not nearly as good as it's box office returns would suggest. That said, the bad guy Zemo is the best and most believable badguy in the entire MCU.
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Jul 13, 2018 14:50
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Ghost Leviathan posted:They basically already did that in a alternate universe story where Cap was revived in the 60s where another person had taken up the Captain America mantle and was basically leading America into a fascist state, and the original Cap beat the poo poo out of the imposter and gave that famous speech about how America's ideals are the only thing that gives the country and flag meaning, otherwise it's just another empire. It's better than that. Cap was created by Joe Simon and Jack Kirby for Timely before America entered World War 2 in their belief that America shouldn't just stand by. Timely folded not long after the war and its comic division became Atlas Comics. Atlas attempted a Cap revival in the mid-1950s and updated the character to fight Communists instead of Nazis - the book was literally titled Captain America, Commie Smasher. Essentially they were sucking up to McCarthyism and the Hays Code and the character did become a right wing propaganda icon. This was the real retcon: Atlas turning Cap into a government puppet instead of a symbol of freedom. When the rebooted Marvel Cap came along and fought the "impostor", he was actually fighting the Atlas version of himself.
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Jul 13, 2018 15:01
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Cleretic posted:Honestly, everything about the main conflict of Civil War falls apart because the thing that leads the divide is aimed squarely at controlling the Avengers. In the comics it was a registration act that all supers would be affected by, so each side's leader made sense: Captain America believes in personal freedom, so he's pushing against something that reduces it, meanwhile Iron Man is demanding more structure and control because he's all about solving problems with structure and control, especially when he gets to control it. It kinda played into Cap and Stark’s character arcs in the MCU. In the beginning, Stark was all “I’m privatizing world peace!” and “The suit is me! You can’t take it!” Over time, through the Avengers, he realizes he can’t do poo poo alone and wants to be a part of something bigger. Cap, on the other hand, started out wanting to be a soldier (a part of something bigger). Over the course of Winter Soldier, he realizes that organizations can have their own agendas and can’t be 100% trusted.
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Jul 13, 2018 15:35
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Cleretic posted:Honestly, everything about the main conflict of Civil War falls apart because the thing that leads the divide is aimed squarely at controlling the Avengers. In the comics it was a registration act that all supers would be affected by, so each side's leader made sense: Captain America believes in personal freedom, so he's pushing against something that reduces it, meanwhile Iron Man is demanding more structure and control because he's all about solving problems with structure and control, especially when he gets to control it. Civil War was 2 or 3 decent movies smashed together into a jumbled mess. Officially, it's billed as part of the Captain America trilogy. As a sequel to Winter Soldier, it makes sense that Cap isn't signing on to blindly follow someone else's orders, because the last time he did that it turned out the orders were coming from nazis. He wants to punch bad guys but wants to have a say in who he has to punch, Ross tells him "no you have to punch whoever we tell you to punch or you don't get to punch people", so he decides he's just not going to punch anybody. Note that at this point he's not actually fighting anybody over it. Unlike the comics it's not an existential issue for him, it's just a question of whether he's allowed to go punch people. He doesn't like the new rules, so he's just going to retire from the punching business and go home. That makes for a really boring movie, so they grafted the boring parts onto another more compelling sequel where Cap is fighting a crusade to save Bucky from government forces. This is a more exciting movie, but it basically renders the Accords plotline completely irrelevant: Cap's mission to save Bucky already gives him a complete motivation to go rogue, and Cap going rogue gives other Avengers a complete motivation to try to subdue him. You could cut 30+ minutes off the front end of the movie and lose absolutely nothing except a loose connection to a comic story that ultimately nobody cares about. The people that read Civil War and liked it don't get anything out of the movie tie-in because it's a different story, the people that read Civil War and didn't like it don't get anything out of the tie-in because it reminds them of a bad story, and the people that didn't read Civil War don't get anything out of the tie-in because they're oblivious to it. Then it gets bogged down further because although it's supposed to be part of Cap's core arc they also have to juggle a lot of other characters to try to keep their plotlines going between movies. the holy poopacy has a new favorite as of 16:01 on Jul 13, 2018 |
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Jul 13, 2018 15:59
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volts5000 posted:It kinda played into Cap and Stark’s character arcs in the MCU. In the beginning, Stark was all “I’m privatizing world peace!” and “The suit is me! You can’t take it!” Over time, through the Avengers, he realizes he can’t do poo poo alone and wants to be a part of something bigger. The Civil War was a very believable turn in both of their arcs. It certainly wasn't related to the comic book version of Civil War, at all. And wasn't a Civil War as much as "these two dudes are mad at each other and each one grabs their friends for a big throw down." And one of them is backed by the government so the losers are now traitors. Also Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. carried the Sokovia Accords further explaining that everybody with powers was asked to register.
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Jul 13, 2018 16:00
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Cap's decision is heavily influenced by Sharon sharing Peggy's advice about not backing down at her funeral. Peggy was one of the people who invited all the nazis into SHIELD that led to Winter Soldier happening.
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Jul 13, 2018 16:01
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Cleretic posted:In the movie, because it's solely about them, putting those two on the same sides as they were originally just doesn't feel right. Cap isn't fighting for everyone's freedom, he's fighting for their freedom specifically, the Sokovia Accords don't affect anybody else. And Iron Man supporting them is even further out of character, because everything Tony Stark does before, during and after Civil War is him doing poo poo because he's deemed it The Right Thing To Do and refusing to relinquish control over anything (remember how he treats Spider-Man; he never stops acting like this even when saying they shouldn't). Neither characters' motivation makes sense, and honestly very few of the others do either. After the events of Avengers 2, Tony has finally realized that while he has the resources to do whatever he's deemed The Right Thing To Do, there are always consequences that he has to take responsibility for--in this case, the deaths in Sokovia. He feels guilty about this, so he's supporting the Accords as a way of removing himself from blame: if the Avengers are only deployed because the government has deemed it appropriate, then any negative impact of their heroics is the fault of the government, not Tony. I think it makes sense.
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Jul 13, 2018 16:01
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Straight White Shark posted:Civil War was 2 or 3 decent movies smashed together into a jumbled mess. Aleph Null posted:The Civil War was a very believable turn in both of their arcs. It certainly wasn't related to the comic book version of Civil War, at all. And wasn't a Civil War as much as "these two dudes are mad at each other and each one grabs their friends for a big throw down." And one of them is backed by the government so the losers are now traitors. Thor: Ragnarok did a similar thing where they shoehorned the Planet Hulk story into a different character's movie.
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Jul 13, 2018 16:04
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Patattack posted:After the events of Avengers 2, Tony has finally realized that while he has the resources to do whatever he's deemed The Right Thing To Do, there are always consequences that he has to take responsibility for--in this case, the deaths in Sokovia. He feels guilty about this, so he's supporting the Accords as a way of removing himself from blame: if the Avengers are only deployed because the government has deemed it appropriate, then any negative impact of their heroics is the fault of the government, not Tony. I think it makes sense. Pretty much, Tony is basically having an ongoing on-off emotional breakdown through pretty much the latter half of the Marvel movies dealing with the responsibilities of his power. It's basically him going the other way after having proudly answered to no one for the first half of the movies, he doesn't know how to reign himself in.
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Jul 13, 2018 16:13
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Thor: Ragnarok did a similar thing where they shoehorned the Planet Hulk story into a different character's movie. I can't decide whether Mark Ruffalo is the cast member who consistently gets hosed over the most, or if he's the one I'd most want to be. Like, they obviously don't give a poo poo about Banner as a character and he's probably never getting his own solo movie after what happened with the previous two. But he's also the only regular member of the cast who gets to just wear like normal person clothes and probably doesn't have to be around for a lot of the shooting days so his job is much easier. And from what I understand he still makes huge money after RDJ used his leverage to get them all better deals, so really it's hard to see a down side.
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Jul 13, 2018 16:25
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Yeah, Mark Ruffalo seems happy 
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Jul 13, 2018 16:25
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The perfect movie is a Mark Ruffalo and Stanley Tucci buddy movie.
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Jul 13, 2018 16:27
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It doesn't hurt that Ruffalo is super charming in small doses. The MCU filmmakers are pretty drat good at giving Banner just enough screen time that I'm always delighted to see him but not enough that he ever wears out his welcome.
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Jul 13, 2018 16:40
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Put John Turturro in it too.
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Jul 13, 2018 16:42
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Basebf555 posted:I can't decide whether Mark Ruffalo is the cast member who consistently gets hosed over the most, or if he's the one I'd most want to be. Like, they obviously don't give a poo poo about Banner as a character and he's probably never getting his own solo movie after what happened with the previous two. He definitely got hosed over, Marvel can't make any solo Hulk movies because Universal still holds the distribution rights due to licence fuckery.
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Jul 13, 2018 16:54
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Basebf555 posted:I can't decide whether Mark Ruffalo is the cast member who consistently gets hosed over the most, or if he's the one I'd most want to be. Like, they obviously don't give a poo poo about Banner as a character and he's probably never getting his own solo movie after what happened with the previous two. But he's also the only regular member of the cast who gets to just wear like normal person clothes and probably doesn't have to be around for a lot of the shooting days so his job is much easier. And from what I understand he still makes huge money after RDJ used his leverage to get them all better deals, so really it's hard to see a down side.   Can't find a way to get this image easily http://cdn.collider.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/thor-ragnarok-11.jpg but it is my favorite. Checks out.
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Jul 13, 2018 17:19
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He probably makes more money in one Thor movie than a lifetime of art-house and romcom's. Hopefully he's not embittered like Natalie Portman who, after Star Wars and Thor probably hates everything.
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Jul 13, 2018 17:22
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Aleph Null posted:
On the one hand all that CGI gear looks a right pain to wear. On the other hand, stomping around and yelling like you're a giant green monster must be really cathartic.
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Jul 13, 2018 17:23
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Aleph Null posted:Checks out. Wow, had no idea how much mo-cap they did with him for those scenes, that's pretty cool.
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Jul 13, 2018 17:25
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Aphrodite posted:That's a retcon. When the original Captain America comic came out, America had no interest in the war. The government considered it a European problem that they should be left to sort out themselves, and most people thought this Hitler fella had some pretty good ideas, although they'd prefer if he wasn't invading so many other countries. Members of the American Nazi party, which was a legitimately registered political organization that did not even pretend to hide itself, showed up at the Marvel offices and said they were there to beat up some communists. When word got up to Jack Kirby he went down intending to fistfight all of them personally, but they had left by the time he got there. Captain America was always supposed to be about what America should stand for, e: and somebody else already said the same thing several hours ago so there you go flavor.flv has a new favorite as of 18:00 on Jul 13, 2018 |
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Jul 13, 2018 17:58
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Ferrule posted:Last year Cap was secretly a member of Hydra (so, a nazi) and it pissed lots of people off. He took over the country and imposed facist rule and then like all things turns out he wasn't the real cap and everything is back to status quo. I thought it was confirmed that the author or whomever was an alt-liter or something. He had sketchy likes or twits up on twitter. Cleretic posted:Honestly, everything about the main conflict of Civil War falls apart because the thing that leads the divide is aimed squarely at controlling the Avengers. In the comics it was a registration act that all supers would be affected by, so each side's leader made sense: Captain America believes in personal freedom, so he's pushing against something that reduces it, meanwhile Iron Man is demanding more structure and control because he's all about solving problems with structure and control, especially when he gets to control it. Apparently the movie was never supposed to happen. DC release their teaser for their batman movie, and Marvel pushed up the Captain America movie to make it into Civil War. Before, it was supposed to be Captain America: Serpent Society. The general plot was something like Cap and Falcon run around Europe cleaning up old hydra bases/groups while trying to find Bucky. The one hydra baddie Frank Grillo played was to be the main villain. Honestly I really hated that Civil War movie. Too much tony stark in what was supposed to be a buddy cop movie with Cap and Falcon  Um wait. This is the subtle movie moments, not the irrationally irritating moments one. Uhhh I liked the part in Civil War with the pen that signed executive order 9066? Also that Bucky's mouth was all hosed up and bleeding after Tony nutted his arm off to indicate that caused serious damage. Is that subtle enough?
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Jul 13, 2018 18:57
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value-brand cereal posted:I thought it was confirmed that the author or whomever was an alt-liter or something. He had sketchy likes or twits up on twitter. Not really. Spencer's a bit of a knob but a lot of what he's said/done has been taken out of context and warped. He's a a democrat and before that member of Charter Party, weirdo progressives. He did a lot to help rebuild after the riots and to help small businesses but it gets blurred because of perceived gentrification in that neighborhood (although it is still extremely diverse and very successful). Not to mention the comics world doesn't revolve solely around one person (anymore). So there's a writer of one book but tons of editors and presidents and poo poo. Takes a lot of people to get. dumb idea approved.
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Jul 13, 2018 19:08
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value-brand cereal posted:Bucky's mouth was all hosed up and bleeding after Tony nutted Not empty quoting.
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Jul 13, 2018 19:09
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Krispy Wafer posted:He probably makes more money in one Thor movie than a lifetime of art-house and romcom's. He had been talking about starring in a Columbo remake, and to be honest, I couldn't imagine him the role, until I saw Thor: Ragnarok
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Jul 13, 2018 19:56
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Davros1 posted:He had been talking about starring in a Columbo remake, and to be honest, I couldn't imagine him the role, until I saw Thor: Ragnarok holy poo poo that would be perfect
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Jul 13, 2018 21:12
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W...would it be a movie? or a saturday afternoon movie? or a netflix saturday afternoon movie?
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Jul 13, 2018 21:26
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It would have been a big screen movie, but apparently Universal (Those guys again!) weren't interested.
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Jul 13, 2018 21:55
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Pook Good Mook posted:The perfect movie is a Mark Ruffalo and Stanley Tucci buddy movie. I'd be down for this. They weren't buddies but they shared some scenes in Spotlight, which is a great film and currently on Netflix!
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Jul 14, 2018 00:59
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Davros1 posted:He had been talking about starring in a Columbo remake, and to be honest, I couldn't imagine him the role, until I saw Thor: Ragnarok I feel like he's just a bit too physically imposing, but otherwise that's an uncanny level of casting
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Jul 14, 2018 01:06
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Apparently, he's only 2 inches taller than Falk
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Jul 14, 2018 02:21
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He was pretty awesome in Shutter Island as a cop. I think he could pull it off pretty well.
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Jul 14, 2018 02:26
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