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Also, interestingly, how games make their AI look smarter, by introducing voice lines where it says what you're doing/what it's doing, because it turns out telegraphing stuff like that even if it doesn't require any decision making, makes players think the AI is very smart. You notice it a lot with the combine in half life 2, and the replica soldiers in FEAR.
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Jul 11, 2018 23:49
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Dark_Swordmaster posted:That's how most games work. As human people we apply ourselves to the AI constantly and say, "Oh, it's doing this," when in reality you're experiencing a bug. A friend of mine wrote a strategy game involving planetary conquest and the easy-mode AI was set to just do random moves. He said that players were always saying stuff like "ooh, it's going over there to thwart my entry-point" or "hmm, it must be planning something big by moving that way".
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Jul 11, 2018 23:59
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OwlFancier posted:Also, interestingly, how games make their AI look smarter, by introducing voice lines where it says what you're doing/what it's doing, because it turns out telegraphing stuff like that even if it doesn't require any decision making, makes players think the AI is very smart. Yeah I distinctly remember the first Half-Life getting a ton of praise for the AI on the soldiers and years later reading about how they literally just had the same AI as the aliens but had voice lines about how they're flanking or whatever. The appearance of being smart is more important than ACTUALLY being smart, because the player still wants the satisfaction of beating them.
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Jul 11, 2018 23:59
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I was watching a GDC where a developer summed it up like this: If you program your AI and your playtesters walk up to you and tell you how awesome it is that your AI is smart enough to throw grenades into a room after the player if they block the door and you walk away saying, "I didn't program that..." you have a "problem." On the one hand, it's cool that the AI is "smart enough" to do that. On the other, what the flying gently caress is the AI doing!?
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Jul 12, 2018 00:03
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It was pretty compelling when you tossed a grenade around a corner near the marines' feet and they'd give panic lines to each other and then scurry out of the way.
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Jul 12, 2018 00:05
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look as long as the AI is attacking the player and not glitching out with its thumb up its rear end then i consider it to be a tremendous victory, i don't care if i don't know why it's working properly
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Jul 12, 2018 00:05
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What's that one vid of a big angry space monster walking back and forth 50 feet down a U-shaped corridor while the PC is stepping 6 inches through a large, car-sized open window pane?
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Jul 12, 2018 00:08
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The Cheshire Cat posted:Yeah I distinctly remember the first Half-Life getting a ton of praise for the AI on the soldiers and years later reading about how they literally just had the same AI as the aliens but had voice lines about how they're flanking or whatever. The appearance of being smart is more important than ACTUALLY being smart, because the player still wants the satisfaction of beating them. I have less experience with half life 1 but yes I think they do it as well. Half life 2 does have some quite interesting AI but it relies a great deal on the map developer setting up cues to tell it what things mean, i.e you can set cover points for them to use in good locations and you also have to set up their navigation system by spraying the map with nodes everywhere so they can figure out how to walk around it. And any special navigation like jumping between levels needs to be specially set up so they know how to do that as well. It relies on boiling down complicated map geometry to simple logical geometry that the AI can follow. Other than that it's mostly just programmed to run up to the player while shooting them, or hang back and shoot them while walking side to side, or sometimes stand still and shoot them. It will sometimes try to stagger its movement between AI in the same squad but it's not super complicated. It also can't actually drive, all the APCs are scripted, the AI can't drive them itself at all which is why they never move more than a few feet in the game and you never fight one as anything more than a glorified turret. The main thing it does really well is that it's just very chatty and reacts to basic stuff like you throwing explosives at them and to its allies getting shot, as well as running into stuff like antlions and zombies, and it has a bunch of prescripted lines and reactions in the campaign for things like you getting the airboat gun and stuff. There's also some special wizardry that makes them walk gunfire towards you in the canal levels and shoot at the water when you go under it, which looks really cool but isn't part of the normal AI routine, It's a lot more storytelling than actual AI cleverness, but because the game blurs it all together it creates a very good experience. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Jul 12, 2018 |
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Jul 12, 2018 00:32
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resistentialism posted:What's that one vid of a big angry space monster walking back and forth 50 feet down a U-shaped corridor while the PC is stepping 6 inches through a large, car-sized open window pane? Is it this one from Alien: Isolation? 
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Jul 12, 2018 00:37
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Woah, don't accuse Alien: Isolation of being Aliens: Colonial Marines.
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Jul 12, 2018 00:39
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It's funny how graphics continue to improve but stuff like collision and AI, not so much. I'm fairly convinced the zombie game crazy was largely fueled by "well if it's zombies they are dumb so the AI is less work..."
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Jul 12, 2018 00:39
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Unfortunately graphics sell a game more than AI so they're going to be eating up most of the resources.
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Jul 12, 2018 00:48
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catlord posted:Woah, don't accuse Alien: Isolation of being Aliens: Colonial Marines. I could have sworn the derpliens were a small part of A:I that got made fun of a lot. v  vShows how much I care about the Alien franchise. 
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Jul 12, 2018 00:50
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Also people generally don't want challenging AI, they just want to enough resistance that it feels satisfying when you push it over. When AI actually starts doing things that human players might do, it gets quickly annoying.
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Jul 12, 2018 00:51
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Mokinokaro posted:Unfortunately graphics sell a game more than AI so they're going to be eating up most of the resources. Artists are also a lot cheaper than programmers.
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Jul 12, 2018 00:56
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Eyes are also much easier to fool (and more thoroughly understood) than the brain
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Jul 12, 2018 01:01
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HenryEx posted:Eyes are also much easier to fool (and more thoroughly understood) than the brain Very true and one of the things we do know about the brain is that a gently caress ton of it is geared toward processing visual information. People are visual as hell and fancy pictures gets our attention better than anything else. I read that like 40% of the brain is all about processing visual information.
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Jul 12, 2018 01:08
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Dewgy posted:I could have sworn the derpliens were a small part of A:I that got made fun of a lot. v Isolation is in my opinion one of the most effective horror games ever made. (Although I played it after its final patch was released so I don't know how janky it was upon release) I'm sad that anyone is mistaking it for being Colonial Marines
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Jul 12, 2018 04:42
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BattleMaster posted:Isolation is in my opinion one of the most effective horror games ever made. (Although I played it after its final patch was released so I don't know how janky it was upon release) I got the AI to wig out once in like 20 hours which isn't bad https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZqbqOduW6A
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Jul 12, 2018 05:00
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Jul 12, 2018 06:37
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I don't know why, but this reminds me of this Kickstarter covered by Restsupurae (watch the campaign video). https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1727847183/hero-monster-girl-quest-3d
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Jul 12, 2018 06:46
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Man, that monster girl fetish really came on the scene fast. It feels like it sprung up overnight. I guess it's really hard to get a more "fantasy" fantasy than jerking off to a centaur. dick jokes
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Jul 12, 2018 15:18
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It's always been there. Sailors have wanted to gently caress fishgirls for as long as there have been sailors.catlord posted:Woah, don't accuse Alien: Isolation of being Aliens: Colonial Marines. Those things were completely blind, anyway, due to being so old their exoskeleton is all dried and cracked. They were just standard stealth level enemies with xenomorph skins.
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Jul 12, 2018 16:26
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OutOfPrint posted:Man, that monster girl fetish really came on the scene fast. It feels like it sprung up overnight. I guess it's really hard to get a more "fantasy" fantasy than jerking off to a centaur. I have such sights to show you. https://thefpl.us/episode/174
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Jul 12, 2018 17:54
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it is a nice game it also has a gallery
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Jul 12, 2018 18:39
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https://www.resetera.com/threads/an-expos%C3%A9-on-winged-clouds-of-sakura-vn-shovelware-infamy-mistreatment-of-indie-talent.8752/ So we know the Sakura games were bad, but now you can be assured that this is a moral statement as well as an indication of poor quality. 
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Jul 12, 2018 19:13
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that's a lot of words without context
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Jul 12, 2018 20:29
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Winged Cloud is a dev that makes titty games on steam, hth.
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Jul 13, 2018 12:47
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hexwren posted:that's a lot of words without context Bliss Authority posted:https://www.resetera.com/threads/an-expos%C3%A9-on-winged-clouds-of-sakura-vn-shovelware-infamy-mistreatment-of-indie-talent.8752/  that this is being framed as the big bad dev taking advantage of a poor VO artist.Negotiating a whole $100 for a large amount of VO and taking advantage of people desperate for "exposure" isn't good. That's the act of someone trying to climb the pyramid by standing on the backs of their fellows. Like, everyone involved is poo poo: these companies should not be in business if they can't pay their labor. But that counts Michaela Laws too. You have to actually have a career for someone to damage it.
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Jul 13, 2018 13:45
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 quote:Super Pillow Fight is an awesome new indie fighting game from Aoineko. It depicts the cataclysmic battles of the 1982 Women's Pillow Fight World Championship held in Boca Raton, Florida. Twenty of the fiercest pillow warriors from around the world gathered to find out who was strongest.
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Jul 13, 2018 18:01
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Everything about this looks so stupid and dumb and over the top and abrasive on the eyes that I think it wrapped back around to interesting, but in like the shaq fu kinda way
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Jul 13, 2018 20:37
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It'll either end up on Friday Night Fisticuffs or Saturday Morning Scrublords and I am excited either way.
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Jul 13, 2018 22:58
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Dawgstar posted:It'll either end up on Friday Night Fisticuffs or Saturday Morning Scrublords and I am excited either way. You're in luck, as it turns out.
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Jul 13, 2018 23:04
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Probably the least Scrublords game they've played since Dong Dong Never Die.
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Jul 13, 2018 23:09
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Klyith posted:apparently all these titty VN games are being built from a pyramid scheme of unpaid labor and codependent anime cultists
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Jul 14, 2018 11:31
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Tbf as far as I know it's only one company that was already well known for being a pile of poo poo and using art uncredited and straight up putting up games they never bothered to license from the original creators.
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Jul 14, 2018 11:38
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 https://store.steampowered.com/app/879270/The_Zombie_Killing_Cyborg/ Ah, good old fashioned trash...
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Jul 14, 2018 11:41
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sunken fleet posted:thats kind of depressing actually. I've always thought well, at least anime titty games aren't really hurting anyone but it turns out they are hurting the people who are developing them. Even cartoon porn is lovely and exploitative apparently. They mean the Sakura games rather than literally everything, their dev Winged Cloud being rotten has been known for a while already and I haven't seen anyone say a good word about them for a long time. Obviously anything at all that makes money will have lovely practices somewhere though, it'd be naive to think otherwise.
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Jul 14, 2018 11:48
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sunken fleet posted:thats kind of depressing actually. I've always thought well, at least anime titty games aren't really hurting anyone but it turns out they are hurting the people who are developing them. Even cartoon porn is lovely and exploitative apparently. 604 idiots give them some amount of money (it's hidden) every month on Patreon, too. The good thing is, the sales of their games were on a huge downward trend. On the other hand that owner seems like the guy who'd make off with everything and gently caress over the rest of the staff even more.
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Jul 14, 2018 13:34
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kirbysuperstar posted:604 idiots give them some amount of money (it's hidden) every month on Patreon, too. This seems to happen a lot with porn games.
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