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In old Ultima games, you had to type what your character was saying. Of course the engine running NPC dialogue was not exactly Turing-test passing, so basically you just had to type keywords. This is the inspiration behind the Morrowind system, you get a list of keywords you can try with the character, and through dialogue you can learn more keywords. It's a pretty clever take on the old system. Of course, the whole thing about a character that only speaks by keywords, if you don't care to pretend they actually make sentences, was later parodied in Ultima VII where they put a conversation tree system. You can meet a theater troupe, and one of the thespians will have this to say: quote:"I work at the Royal Theatre as an actor. I have played -all- the great roles in my career. I now have the chance to play the part of a lifetime -- the Avatar! Because it must cater to the masses, we never have the opportunity to do experimental works -- only the traditional gruel of mediocrity. But 'tis a wonderful space and it has marvelous acoustics. People like to see tales of heroic adventures, knights in armour, beautiful princesses, wise kings, wizards, evil monsters. All that rot."
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Jul 14, 2018 17:35
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cargohills posted:morrowind truly is the pinnacle of conversation systems, i say, as i scream PROFESSION and BACKGROUND at everyone i see so i can find out which of the 10 paragraphs of generic text they use double nine posted:*enters local pawnbroker* When you put it that way it sounds more realistic than I ever gave it credit for.
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Jul 14, 2018 17:45
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TELL JOKE Joke failed. TELL JOKE Joke failed.
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Jul 14, 2018 17:54
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Morrowind dialouge was interesting but there were just too many meaningless dialogue options and nearly everyone said the same thing, and there were only a handful of quests where it was used for information gathering. Oblivion went for the right direction by giving most NPCs at least one unique line, but simplified the keyword system too much so you cannot actually gather information you want unless you randomly get the right rumor or a quest demands it. I don't like the Skyrim system because it just feels like they wanted to be like the other cool RPGs in the block with full sentences and everything forgetting that deep dialogue trees were never a thing in Elder Scrolls. What I'm trying to say here is, I miss Oblivions nonsensical completely random dialogue between 2 NPCs.
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Jul 14, 2018 18:26
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Bholder posted:What I'm trying to say here is, I miss Oblivions nonsensical completely random dialogue between 2 NPCs. I've heard others say the same.
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Jul 14, 2018 19:01
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GTA has that. I think the big question begged by Morrowind's dialogue system (taken, like cat mattress says, from Ultima) is that you should be able to talk to everyone, even utterly generic people with nothing particularly to say.
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Jul 14, 2018 20:51
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I like Morrowind's dialogue system  Sure, talking feels like browsing Wikipedia but that makes the lore/geography/... of Vvardenfell much more accessible and that's part of what makes Morrowind special.In the later games you have to read books to have that kind of exposure and I always feel a bit weird having to stop playing to read a in-game book (but that's just me).
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Jul 14, 2018 21:27
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Bholder posted:
Filthy creature.
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Jul 15, 2018 00:35
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I just want Beth to figure out that we don't want to have to skip past 3 minutes of dialogue every time we want to sell something to an NPC...
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Jul 15, 2018 01:23
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Cat Mattress posted:In old Ultima games, you had to type what your character was saying. Of course the engine running NPC dialogue was not exactly Turing-test passing, so basically you just had to type keywords. This is the inspiration behind the Morrowind system, you get a list of keywords you can try with the character, and through dialogue you can learn more keywords. It's a pretty clever take on the old system. I think the pinnacle of those early conversation systems was probably Ultima Underworld - remember the part where you had to learn how to speak Lizardman from the mute guy in the cell? That was rad. Daggerfall's conversation system was pretty interesting too. Anyways I like text as much as the next guy but yeah, there's no way Bethesda goes back to it ever again. I just hope TES6 doesn't use Fallout 4's conversation system (HATE MUDCRABS) and I'm real curious to see how they do it in Starfield.
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Jul 15, 2018 01:42
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bony tony posted:TELL JOKE Uhhhh you can't just tell two jokes in a row, you have to admire them, coerce them, and boast to them first.
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Jul 15, 2018 05:00
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TresTristesTigres posted:I think the pinnacle of those early conversation systems was probably Ultima Underworld - remember the part where you had to learn how to speak Lizardman from the mute guy in the cell? That was rad. Daggerfall's conversation system was pretty interesting too. I mean that could work in TES. Have Imperials and Important Plot People speak Would work for modding at least so we don’t need to hear Derek in his basement do his best impression of a Dunmer Nightblade. Edit: Ahnassi can suck it. Thesr are the real smooth moves. Weavered fucked around with this message at 08:58 on Jul 15, 2018 |
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Jul 15, 2018 07:40
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Sky Shadowing posted:I think voice acting is here to stay now as an industry standard AAA title practice. It would be a negative for a game made by a company of Bethesda's caliber and resources to not have it. Only indie games can get away with it now. What about the voiced-but-not-fully model that a lot of Japanese games are going with these days? Maybe I've just gotten used to it but I think it's really the best possible way to do things in a game with loads and loads of dialogue. You can dub the important, interesting, entertaining etc parts and not have to voice every single villager's filler line what nobody cares about.
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Jul 15, 2018 23:09
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Amppelix posted:What about the voiced-but-not-fully model that a lot of Japanese games are going with these days? Maybe I've just gotten used to it but I think it's really the best possible way to do things in a game with loads and loads of dialogue. You can dub the important, interesting, entertaining etc parts and not have to voice every single villager's filler line what nobody cares about. This is definitely something that western devs should take inspiration from
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Jul 16, 2018 01:14
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Fister Roboto posted:Uhhhh you can't just tell two jokes in a row, you have to admire them, coerce them, and boast to them first. It's always weird when the stand up comedians stop their sets to praise and then threaten the audience.
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Jul 16, 2018 03:09
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poisonpill posted:It's always weird when the stand up comedians stop their sets to praise and then threaten the audience.
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Jul 19, 2018 21:55
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I won’t answer that until you give me one hundred gold
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Jul 19, 2018 23:02
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What if I try to sell you some random worthless crap for all the money you have, and insist until you hate me, then flatter you until you hate me less, then say goodbye and repeat from the start, until you see me as your best friend?
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Jul 19, 2018 23:42
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No, that would be your mother.
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Jul 19, 2018 23:51
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Cat Mattress posted:What if I try to sell you some random worthless crap for all the money you have, and insist until you hate me, then flatter you until you hate me less, then say goodbye and repeat from the start, until you see me as your best friend? I don't know about you but if some dude came in and sold me 10000 plates for all the cash I have in the safe, then goes outside and stands stark still for an entire day only to do it again, I would be friends with that person regardless.
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Jul 19, 2018 23:53
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"How on earth can you stay in business buying nothing but iron arrows, silver plateware, and leather boots; day after day, week after week?" "Volume!"
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Jul 20, 2018 00:38
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keyboard vomit posted:I don't know about you but if some dude came in and sold me 10000 plates for all the cash I have in the safe, then goes outside and stands stark still for an entire day only to do it again, I would be friends with that person regardless. It's an exploit in Morrowind. Get something like autohotkey because there's a lot of repetitive clicking involved. When you try to sell something, and the merchant refuses the transaction, their disposition decreases by 1. But it's a temporary decrease: as soon as you leave the conversation, it gains back the points it lost. (Likewise, in reverse: when a transaction is successful, the merchant's disposition increases by 1 temporarily, but that's not interesting.) So propose a deal that you're sure the merchant will refuse. Insist (that's where the lot of clicks happen) enough time for all the failed attempts to reduce the disposition to 0. Now go to speechcraft and flatter the NPC. When you get "speechcraft fail", the NPC's disposition will decrease permanently -- except that since it's already at 0, it can't actually decrease. When you get a speechcraft success, the disposition gets a permanent +10 increase. Say goodbye then. Now talk to the NPC again, and you'll see their disposition is now equal to whatever value it originally was, +10. With some patience, it's a surefire way to get 100% disposition with any merchant, even with a starting character with lousy charisma and minimum points in speechcraft.
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Jul 20, 2018 01:01
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Cat Mattress posted:It's an exploit in Morrowind. Get something like autohotkey because there's a lot of repetitive clicking involved. I got a mod where I make out with the shopkeep and then we get married and that gives me 100% disposition much faster but we don't have sex because that's gross.
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Jul 20, 2018 01:09
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I thought the only way to level speechcraft was to piss off guards until they attacked you, and then when you kill them that gives you the speechcraft points
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Jul 20, 2018 01:53
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I thought you just lowered your speechcraft to 0, then go to aa trainer.
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Jul 20, 2018 02:14
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Filthy cheaters. How dare you desecrate poor, innocent Morrowind.
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Jul 20, 2018 02:17
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Target: self Fortify Charisma 100 dur 3 sec. Costs like, 6 mp.
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Jul 20, 2018 03:38
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poisonpill posted:It's always weird when the stand up comedians stop their sets to praise and then threaten the audience. I'm pretty sure comedian Zach Galifianakis has made a career out of doing that.
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Jul 20, 2018 03:53
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Node posted:Filthy cheaters. How dare you desecrate poor, innocent Morrowind. Morrowind knows we cheated it, and it liked it.
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Jul 20, 2018 04:09
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lobster22221 posted:Morrowind knows we cheated it, and it liked it. Then pay with your blood!
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Jul 20, 2018 04:19
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Node posted:Then pay with your blood! You N'wah!
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Jul 20, 2018 04:27
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So how we're doing, folks. I see a lot of criminal scum here in the audience tonight.
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Jul 20, 2018 07:38
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"So an outlander, a naked nord, and a filthy lizard walk into a bar..."
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Jul 20, 2018 09:14
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FELD1 posted:"So an outlander, a naked nord, and a filthy lizard walk into a bar..." Stop talking about my love life.
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Jul 20, 2018 09:15
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lobster22221 posted:Stop talking about my love life. You wish. Lifts Her Tail has standards.
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Jul 20, 2018 09:38
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Yeah, she's a size queen
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Jul 20, 2018 10:03
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Lotta lounge lizards out here tonight. “The only thing that really worried me was the moon sugar. There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of a sugar binge, and I knew we'd get into that rotten stuff pretty soon.”
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Jul 20, 2018 12:45
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What's the deeeeeaaaaaal with spears? Where'd they go? It's not like it's a complicated concept. Stick, with a blade. Y'know they've seen the arrow!
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Jul 20, 2018 18:27
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Kind of funny since the Norse used spears more than anything else.
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Jul 20, 2018 19:04
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| # ? Jun 10, 2024 11:19 |
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The got outsized in the spear department back in the Secession Wars, it would seem. *cough*Barfok*cough*
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Jul 20, 2018 20:12
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