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Piell posted:Or don't build enemies like PCs because it's a bad idea I 100% agree with this, but the trouble I have is giving enemies interesting, flavorful abilities as a replacement. (Not that most of the spells are interesting or flavorful, either.) I try to nab intriguing abilities from 4e monsters and rebalance them, but 5e plays differently enough that some of them are just way stronger or way weaker than expected and I don't pick up on that until the session. Kaysette posted:Speaking of LMoP maps, be sure to notice that some of them are 10' squares. Yes, this is very important and annoying. A Google search can find a bunch of 5' converted maps of variable quality, though.
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Jul 14, 2018 15:59
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My latest boss battle I put together involved an evil druid-type that I gave an improved Call Lightning attack on a legendary action. So while he was engaged in melee with the party's barbarian, the damage got spread around and forced the party to spread out tactically to avoid doubling up on lightning strikes. It made the scenario a lot more tense when the threat was more than just a melee attack from the druid and his minions. I used the Archdruid from Volo's (i think that's the book) as a base, but tweaked it a little bit to make him a little more threatening as a melee combatant. Honestly the 9 levels of spells don't loving matter, because unless you give them Legendary action: cast level 9 spell, your dude is going to get chumped in a round or two of heavy focus-fire before he can do anything with his level 6+ spell slots. What I'm getting at is I second (or third or fourth, whatever) the "don't build enemies like players" because the action economy explicitly limits a single dude from being a threat. If you're doing anything with a kingpin character, give them legendary actions. Flavor them like whatever spells they'd usually cast; I picked Call Lightning because it seemed particularly druid-y and threatening, and any of the martial archetypes you might use as a villain could get a Charge attack or something similar to Steel Wind Strike that moves them around the battlefield and spreads the damage about.
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Jul 14, 2018 17:14
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You kinda want to give enemies attacks that seem like something the players could get, which is why all the mage enemies have player spells and not weird-rear end custom attacks. DMing 5e has just convinced me to make my own monsters, because the MM is a busted piece of <expletive>.
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Jul 14, 2018 17:28
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I'm talking about legendary actions. There's nothing to say the enemies shouldn't be using skills the players can obtain, but it's not like the player's going to obtain the Lich's Disrupt Life Legendary action. On said Lich's turn they can cast Finger of Death or Magic Missile or whatever, just like my druid example was smacking things around with Shillelagh and casting other spells. These are supposed to be legendary creatures of exceptional threats, so yeah, I get to fudge the rules and make Call Lightning a bigger blast. NPCs don't have to play with the same class features of PCs they resemble.
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Jul 14, 2018 18:00
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So Legendary actions work by, essentially, giving the boss a couple of actions that they can do on the players turn, right?
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Jul 14, 2018 18:30
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:You kinda want to give enemies attacks that seem like something the players could get
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Jul 14, 2018 18:34
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Josef bugman posted:So Legendary actions work by, essentially, giving the boss a couple of actions that they can do on the players turn, right? Between their turns to be exact. If they do have minions they can also do it between those guys turns as well.
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Jul 14, 2018 18:34
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In strike, champion enemies act on initiative 7, 5 and 3. Elites act twice on their turn if they're bloodied, and succeed on all saves if they aren't. This seems to work pretty well.
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Jul 14, 2018 18:36
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MonsterEnvy posted:Between their turns to be exact. If they do have minions they can also do it between those guys turns as well. I will sometimes give a boss extra legendary actions as minions die and take them away as players goes down.
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Jul 14, 2018 18:36
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MonsterEnvy posted:Between their turns to be exact. If they do have minions they can also do it between those guys turns as well. So do legendary actions "reset" after each PC has gone, or after each team has gone?
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Jul 14, 2018 19:06
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Josef bugman posted:So do legendary actions "reset" after each PC has gone, or after each team has gone? Per round. After the last PC/Monster/Whatever in the initiative order has gone, everything starts again at the top with legendary actions back to full. EDIT: Yeah what Malpais said. I was thinking about Lair Actions always being top of the order (probably) Admiral Joeslop fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Jul 14, 2018 |
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Jul 14, 2018 19:17
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It's at the start of the creature's turn that they regain any spent legendary actions.
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Jul 14, 2018 19:20
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Malpais Legate posted:It's at the start of the creature's turn that they regain any spent legendary actions. Admiral Joeslop posted:Per round. After the last PC/Monster/Whatever in the initiative order has gone, everything starts again at the top with legendary actions back to full. Oh my Gods lair actions sound ruinously powerful.
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Jul 14, 2018 20:21
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I know CR is nearly meaningless, but the books did take the time to deem most legendary creatures with lair actions are a higher CR than they would be without them. I've never worked with them before so I don't know what to make of them. At a glance, the Beholder lair actions look like they could gently caress a party over, particularly the one that gives them another eye beam. Hell, one of the other ones restrains people against walls, letting the Beholder lock down a caster in the anti-magic cone.
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Jul 14, 2018 20:33
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So, to keep the thread up to date with the prep for the Deaf/Blind guy (who incidently ran a mud run today, and is a pretty cool guy) he said he wants to play Dungeons and Dragons - not something else. But he was on board with playing the Dragonborn Barbarian. He did seem kind of disappointed when I said he can only breathe fire occasionally, but I could just reflavour the rages as "You hit him with an axe, AND breathe fire on him" to explain the extra damage. It'd work mechanically, as long as his fire breath in these instances is slashing damge, but whatever.
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Jul 14, 2018 20:36
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Just give him an enchanted tattoo or something that lets him breathe fire in place of his weapon attacks, doesn't seem that complicated. Hell, have it use the same damage die as whatever weapon he's wielding, including +whatever if it's a magic weapon. I don't think going "you do 1d10+2 fire damage instead of 1d10+2 slashing damage" is gonna be particularly gamebreaking. You're letting someone live out their fantasy, don't hamstring the cool factor just because it's not what WOTC explicitly had in mind.
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Jul 14, 2018 21:31
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Most of the time fire damage is going to be weaker than just regular slashing damage, not counting normal weapon resistance cause by the time players fight those they should really have magic weapons. Lots of stuff gets fire immunity/resistance. Giving him an at-will 1d12+Str melee range fire breath won't break anything, as the poster above said. Dragonborn are probably one of the weakest races so you can even buff him further.
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Jul 14, 2018 22:08
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CommaToes posted:he said he wants to play Dungeons and Dragons - not something else. i wish i understood the weirdly prevalent brand loyalty towards D&D from people before they've even played D&D
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Jul 14, 2018 22:22
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Brother Entropy posted:i wish i understood the weirdly prevalent brand loyalty towards D&D from people before they've even played D&D To someone not familiar with tabletops, other systems probably sound like off-brand D&D.
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Jul 14, 2018 23:10
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Josef bugman posted:Oh my Gods lair actions sound ruinously powerful. They pretty good, but they are not devastating. Lair Actions take place at Initiative 20 every round (losing ties.) Here is an adult red dragon a good poster boy for showing off Legendary and Lair actions. https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/adult-red-dragon Malpais Legate posted:I know CR is nearly meaningless, but the books did take the time to deem most legendary creatures with lair actions are a higher CR than they would be without them. I've never worked with them before so I don't know what to make of them. At a glance, the Beholder lair actions look like they could gently caress a party over, particularly the one that gives them another eye beam. Hell, one of the other ones restrains people against walls, letting the Beholder lock down a caster in the anti-magic cone. Beholders are dangerous anyway so it makes sense that an extra action each turn makes them a bit more dangerous. CR only has a usage in Xanathar's Encounter building, and a rough warning that monsters with CR's higher then the parties level can be quite dangerous and can down players. By default the normal encounter building does not even take CR into account. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Jul 15, 2018 |
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Jul 14, 2018 23:52
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CommaToes posted:So, to keep the thread up to date with the prep for the Deaf/Blind guy (who incidently ran a mud run today, and is a pretty cool guy) he said he wants to play Dungeons and Dragons - not something else. But he was on board with playing the Dragonborn Barbarian. He did seem kind of disappointed when I said he can only breathe fire occasionally, but I could just reflavour the rages as "You hit him with an axe, AND breathe fire on him" to explain the extra damage. It'd work mechanically, as long as his fire breath in these instances is slashing damge, but whatever. Yeah there does not seem to be any issues with doing that. Fire is normally a weaker damage type then Slashing as mentioned.
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Jul 14, 2018 23:56
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If the player insists that the game absolutely has to be Dungeons & Dragons Next The Fifth One and not any other game, you should probably check with them before you start changing or adding to the rules.
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Jul 15, 2018 00:01
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MonsterEnvy posted:Their pretty good, but they are not devastating. So, let's say you have the following set up Everyones Rolled initiative and the order goes as follows: [Red Dragon] [PC 1] [PC 2] [PC 3] [PC 4] In terms of what can happen in normal play it would be: [Red dragon] Uses "normal attacks" [PC 1] Attack [PC 2] Attack [PC 3] Attack [PC 4] Attack. Which would mean that the RD is dead fairly fast due to the action economy. However: With legendaries it goes [Red Dragon] Uses "normal attacks" [PC 1] Attack [Red Dragon] Uses Legendary Action "Wing attack" [PC 2] Attack [Red Dragon] Uses Legendary Action "Tail swipe" [PC 3] Attack [PC 4] Attack. [Red Dragon] Goes again and gets legendaries back And with lairs it goes: [Red Dragon] Uses "normal attacks" [PC 1] Attack [Red Dragon] Uses Legendary Action "Wing attack" [PC 2] Attack [Red Dragon] Uses Legendary Action "Tail swipe" [PC 3] Attack [PC 4] Attack. [Red Dragon] Goes again and gets legendaries back, Can also use one of the Lair abilities
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Jul 15, 2018 00:05
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AlphaDog posted:If the player insists that the game absolutely has to be Dungeons & Dragons Next The Fifth One and not any other game, you should probably check with them before you start changing or adding to the rules. It's "Oh, we've replaced X with Y", or "Oh, we ignore X except when we don't" style changes stacking up that can get messy regardless of who is playing. What new player is going to complain if the GM reminds them something like "Oh, we have a house rule that let's you throw your battle axe for full damage while raging." Compared to say, "Oh, we have a house rule where you can't throw daggers with strength, because you can't do that in 4th edition without feats." On that note, Barbarians are probably really loving good at drunken games of darts in 5th edition. Section Z fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Jul 15, 2018 |
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Jul 15, 2018 00:09
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Section Z posted:At the very least, it's less of a headache to introduce "Oh and you can ALSO do X" or things that are just shy of reflavor like the rage damage=dragon zippo. If the end result is identical to vanilla rules except maybe a damage type (and fire is hardly comparable to say, radiant) then it should be fine. I don't disagree with any of this. The answer to the bolded question is "A new player who for whatever reason wants to play exactly this version of Dungeon & Dragons", which is something that, while not all that common, can happen. All I'm saying is to check with the person before making changes to the rules. It'll take 10 seconds, and they might say "I really want to stick with what's in the rulebook". If you're starting the game just for them, and the goal is to teach the game, then it's important to go over reskinning, houseruling, etc anyway and this would be a good way to start - "OK, so that concept doesn't appear in the rulebook. That happens sometimes. Here's one way we can approach making something that fits, by either writing a new rule or finding one that's close and changing the fiction around it..." Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Jul 15, 2018 |
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Jul 15, 2018 00:39
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Josef bugman posted:So, let's say you have the following set up Which is a good thing. As this way they make good boss monsters.
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Jul 15, 2018 01:17
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Legendary actions lets you have the dramatics of a single-enemy fight while avoiding the awful action economy of a single-enemy fight, where either the enemy is instagibbed or deletes one PC per turn. I wish Pathfinder had similar rules.
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Jul 15, 2018 01:52
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I am going to try the solution with Big Bad's of treating them like JRPG characters. Introduce them early as a major threat but from afar or with general interactions. Have the first fight be unwinnable but short to show the power of the dude and scare the gently caress out of them. Have him show up a bunch of times and dump other bosses at them. Then have a final battle with him where he has three different forms. I'm gonna try this when I run Strahd eventually and I think it's gonna work real well 
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Jul 15, 2018 02:01
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Don't do unwinnable fights in D&D. Either your players will get annoyed at having their agency disrupted or they'll win it somehow. Go for more of a gloating supervillain thing and set a monster on them, laugh and run away.
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Jul 15, 2018 02:23
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I do like using boss enemies with multiple forms.
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Jul 15, 2018 03:06
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Lair attacks don't necessarily go off at the top of the turn absolutely: they have their own initiative count, which tends to be quite high, but can still be beat by a player's initiative roll in good circumstances. Monsters aren't expected to always have lair attacks, but they are intended to make the fight harder if you choose to fight the monster in their lair, as opposed to springing some kind of plan to draw them out. Legendary actions are, yes, supposed to allow monsters to generally always have as many "actions" as there are players. A truly revolutionary houserule for DMing would be "a DM never rolls initiative, but instead, whenever a player finishes their turn, the DM will get to take a turn with a monster of their choice. The DM cannot pick a monster that has already previously taken a turn this round over a monster that has not, but is allowed to, once all monsters have already taken a turn"
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Jul 15, 2018 03:45
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gradenko_2000 posted:A truly revolutionary houserule for DMing would be "a DM never rolls initiative, but instead, whenever a player finishes their turn, the DM will get to take a turn with a monster of their choice. The DM cannot pick a monster that has already previously taken a turn this round over a monster that has not, but is allowed to, once all monsters have already taken a turn" Why stop there? You could go so far as to let the players choose their play order, too. You could, in other words...remove initiative from the equation entirely.
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Jul 15, 2018 04:23
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King of Solomon posted:Why stop there? You could go so far as to let the players choose their play order, too. You could, in other words...remove initiative from the equation entirely. But how are we going to reward the people who rolled high dexterity? 
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Jul 15, 2018 04:30
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Is this the part of the thread cycle where we reinvent Dungeon World? Because it feels like the part where we reinvent Dungeon World.
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Jul 15, 2018 04:30
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:But how are we going to reward the people who rolled high dexterity? Initiative by dexterity?  Works fine in other games I've seen.
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Jul 15, 2018 04:37
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Kaysette posted:Is this the part of the thread cycle where we reinvent Dungeon World? Because it feels like the part where we reinvent Dungeon World. I wouldn't go so far as to remove all of the crunch, I just don't think initiative is a particularly interesting mechanic. And removing it adds to player agency, which is a good thing.
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Jul 15, 2018 04:42
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to be clear, I wasn't really taking a shot at initiative as a problem, but rather at "monster action economy" that rule I'm proposing allows fights to always be somewhat dangerous without obliging the DM to always throw piles of monsters at the group, and allows "bosses" to always be a challenge
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Jul 15, 2018 04:47
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Kaysette posted:Is this the part of the thread cycle where we reinvent Dungeon World? Because it feels like the part where we reinvent Dungeon World. to be a pedant, they just reinvented MHR/cortex initiative
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Jul 15, 2018 04:51
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Nah we've gone like a whole page without preaching Shadow of the Demon Lord so we're overdue for that.
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Jul 15, 2018 05:15
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| # ? May 15, 2024 06:47 |
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indeed, play shadow of the demon lord
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Jul 15, 2018 05:17
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