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I fought a similar list with 150 ork boys, and ran into the same issue that I just can't stand up to that many saves. They shot a knight to death with nothing but sluggas and shootas.
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Jul 15, 2018 05:42
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Booley posted:I fought a similar list with 150 ork boys, and ran into the same issue that I just can't stand up to that many saves. They shot a knight to death with nothing but sluggas and shootas. Needs more dakka.
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Jul 15, 2018 06:23
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I beat a cultist spam list once with my Wolves. By my Redemptor Dread detonating in the middle of them and rolling max damage on everything. That is the one time it has earned its points back.
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Jul 15, 2018 07:36
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I played an absurd 1500 or game today. Turn 1 4 lascannoms and a multimelta shot at and assploded my Tau drone port, decimating my gunline. Like 10 dead fw and pathfinders, wounds on my ethereal, fireblade, broadside, Farsight, AND my Coldstar, outright killing my marksman. Turn 2 my devilish exploded to less absurd but still enormous effect. Worst two sixes ever. Could my drones have taken those wounds? Nichol fucked around with this message at 09:42 on Jul 15, 2018 |
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Jul 15, 2018 09:03
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Nichol posted:I played an absurd 1500 or game today. Turn 1 4 lascannoms and a multimelta shot at and assploded my Tau drone port, decimating my gunline. Like 10 dead fw amd pathfinders, wounds on my ethereal, fireblade, broadside, Farsight, AND my Coldstar, ou Turn 2 my devilish exploded to less absurd but still enormous effect. Worst two sixes ever. Drones can take any wounds that you get as a result of an attack - so basically, melee and shooting. Wounds from psychic powers or exploding vehicles, sadly, are unavoidable. I haven't found the drone port to be worth its points, sadly - an equivalent point cost in drones does a lot more and doubles as ablative wounds for your big suits. The problem with it is that you want to put high BS models in it to boost the drones, but any model with good BS is going to have an aura that gets turned off in the port. Maybe with the exception of the Firesight marksman? e: So, crunching the numbers: a droneport with 4 marker drones and a firesight marksman is 135 points, and yields an average of 3.62 markerlights without any stratagem use. A marksman and 11 marker drones is also 135 points, and yields an average of 4.74 markerlights. Up to you how much you weight up the importance of Sacrificial Protocols versus the droneport's protection, but with detachments such an important resource for Tau thanks to the commander limit I don't see that there's the room for a fortification network. This all means that my Droneport generally sees use as a piece of ruins terrain rather than anything else. Flavivirus fucked around with this message at 10:11 on Jul 15, 2018 |
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Jul 15, 2018 09:09
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Black_Nexus posted:It's a big problem in 40k now that flamers can't kill like 15 of them at a time, people can just stack 100's of cheap poo poo bodies since multiwound weapons don't carry over. I played my first game of AOS a few days ago and found out just how easily wound carryover deals with big units. My 30 Bloodletters evaporated against a dinosaur because of his multi-wound attacks. That thing and 2 Cold Ones killed like 17 Bloodletters in one round of combat, and I think another 8 vanished from Battleshock / Morale. Perhaps the solution in 40k is to increase the effectiveness of things like 'D3 hits becomes D6 hits' if the unit is X number of models.
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Jul 15, 2018 11:01
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Booley posted:I fought a similar list with 150 ork boys, and ran into the same issue that I just can't stand up to that many saves. They shot a knight to death with nothing but sluggas and shootas. Surely that’s just poor luck mate - 150 boys all firing shootas is 300 shots, 100 hits, 16-17 wounds and perhaps 6 wounds off a knight. I know that might be improved with character auras and stratagems, but 150 boys are 900 points and cant really all be in range at once.
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Jul 15, 2018 11:11
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EDIT: sorry, double post.
Genghis Cohen fucked around with this message at 11:21 on Jul 15, 2018 |
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Jul 15, 2018 11:11
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Cultist spam just sounds so awful. Really any spam armies. Theres so much cooler stuff in the lists. I mean, I kinda want some just to use some inspiration from some of the cool kit bashes I've seen, but still... Plague Marines with giant axes and flails are just so much beefier looking.
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Jul 15, 2018 12:11
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Looks like templates served a purpose after all. 
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Jul 15, 2018 12:45
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Looks like you should all get good or reroll as Dark Angels with Sammael.
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Jul 15, 2018 12:50
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Definitely think flamers should scale in some way. Either more attacks against big units like the demolisher, or more attacks against units with poor armour saves, say 5+ and worse. I'm imagining it as a case of flames catching and spreading easily on whatever second hand thrift store clothing cultists wear, whereas say power armour would still have its wearer cook inside it but he wouldn't also set too many of his friends on fire. Whenever I feel like I'm missing using templates, I simply imagine myself using a squadron of 7th ed Wyverns and I no longer miss templates.
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Jul 15, 2018 14:07
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Flamer d6 auto hits per 10 models. Battle cannon d6 attacks per 10 models to every unit within 3" lf target point. Probably need a major points increase.
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Jul 15, 2018 14:31
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:Needs more dakka. "Needs more templates" - Bulbasaur, probably
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Jul 15, 2018 15:03
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They just need to limit cultists to 20 models per unit. Even 30 would be better.
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Jul 15, 2018 15:07
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NovemberMike posted:Chaos just doesn't feel like it lives up to the fantasy. They need to go back to the drawing board for a lot of it. Exactly. I, like most people who play Chaos, got into them for playing as Chaos Marines. Except regular chaos marines are so bad and cultists are so good, there's absolutely zero reason to ever field Chaos Marines.
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Jul 15, 2018 15:11
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MasterSlowPoke posted:They just need to limit cultists to 20 models per unit. Even 30 would be better. Christ I hadn't realised it was 10-40, that's insane.
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Jul 15, 2018 15:17
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Gyro Zeppeli posted:Exactly. I, like most people who play Chaos, got into them for playing as Chaos Marines. Except regular chaos marines are so bad and cultists are so good, there's absolutely zero reason to ever field Chaos Marines. If you don’t like playing as screaming hordes of disaffected and misled masses who are just grist for the warmachine of 10,000 year old post human soldiers whose grudges have been twisted beyond all recognition and are themselves just misled and grist for the eternal game between uncaring dark Gods, then you don’t get 40K. Also, “Hey Siri, what are autocannons, leadership modifiers and the morale phase?”.
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Jul 15, 2018 15:21
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I can't image any army has trouble killing infantry even hordes. T3/T4 with a 5/6+ save simply requires volume of fire. Not taking the volume of fire is a choice.
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Jul 15, 2018 15:21
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The biggest problem in my mind is forward operatives. Being able to deploy 120 cultists 9" away from my lines and then delete all of my troop units because they're already in rapid fire range is absurd. If they had to slog them across the battlefield, it wouldn't be so bad. When they tried to "fix" deep strike, they made it so it was half power level, not model count. Now they can just deploy 120 models wherever they want pretty much. EvilBeard fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Jul 15, 2018 |
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Jul 15, 2018 15:22
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Raphus C posted:I can't image any army has trouble killing infantry even hordes. T3/T4 with a 5/6+ save simply requires volume of fire. Not taking the volume of fire is a choice. The most efficient killer of lovely hordes is your own lovely horde. If you go second, you don't have your best weapons against them.
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Jul 15, 2018 15:24
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the deep strike change is irrelevant because stratagems like forward operatives weren't affected anyway it should probably be limited like the deep strike strats are where it's 1/3cp for 1/2 units
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Jul 15, 2018 15:35
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EvilBeard posted:The biggest problem in my mind is forward operatives. Being able to deploy 120 cultists 9" away from my lines and then delete all of my troop units because they're already in rapid fire range is absurd. If they had to slog them across the battlefield, it wouldn't be so bad. Forward ops only works for 1 squad. So at most they set up 1 40 man squad.
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Jul 15, 2018 15:36
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You can get 40k an not play the raging masses. I got into chaos for hosed up dudes in hosed up armor But because even casual games quickly go competitive it got poo poo on until the only real choice was go cultist swarm. So I got out. If I wanted to play swarm I'd play Orks so I did. Now we have the funny issue of people winning games by clocking people out with so many orks it snaps the game over its knee. Sounds like its going great.
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Jul 15, 2018 15:36
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Soldier o Fortune posted:I played my first game of AOS a few days ago and found out just how easily wound carryover deals with big units. My 30 Bloodletters evaporated against a dinosaur because of his multi-wound attacks. That thing and 2 Cold Ones killed like 17 Bloodletters in one round of combat, and I think another 8 vanished from Battleshock / Morale. I've been playing AoS as well since the new edition and been pretty impressed with how multi-wounding works. My Skaven clanrats usually want to run 40 rats deep and some units are equipped to deal with that and some are not. Watching Stormcast Retributors wade into them, swinging their hammers like Sauron, killing 16-20 rats in a single attack phase is pretty awesome. That said, other units just get run over cause they are made to be accurate and just cannot deal with the numbers cause I don't care if you accurately killed just 4 rats. I like D3 hits becoming D6 as a solution but I would not mind seeing some weapons having the option/upgrade/ability to deal carry-over damage. I worry that we drift back towards USR nonsense though. (for reference, I've not played Cultist spam yet but I do play guard so I guess Lasguns and Heavy Bolters HWT are a good solution, same with mortars but its all theory-nonsense.)
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Jul 15, 2018 15:37
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also a lazy way to nerf cultists and make bog standard marines more enticing is to change vets of the long war so cultists can't use it, and when used on troop marines grants full re-rolls to wound like how let the galaxy burn works
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Jul 15, 2018 15:37
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the moose posted:Forward ops only works for 1 squad. So at most they set up 1 40 man squad. since deployment is not a phase, you can infiltrate as many units as you're willing to spend command points on
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Jul 15, 2018 15:39
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It’s ok to admit when you fail at list selection time and/or deployment and/or not purchasing enough terrain.
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Jul 15, 2018 15:42
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Milotic posted:It’s ok to admit when you fail at list selection time and/or deployment and/or not purchasing enough terrain. it's ok to admit cultists in their current form are egregiously effective and basic meq troops aren't
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Jul 15, 2018 15:44
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EvilBeard posted:The biggest problem in my mind is forward operatives. Being able to deploy 120 cultists 9" away from my lines and then delete all of my troop units because they're already in rapid fire range is absurd. If they had to slog them across the battlefield, it wouldn't be so bad. The gimmick is the issue not the horde. EvilBeard posted:The most efficient killer of lovely hordes is your own lovely horde. If you go second, you don't have your best weapons against them. I can't think of an army with no efficient horde killers. There is no need to change the weapon profiles of anti-tank weapons to make them efficient at anti-infantry as well. You will end up paying a generalist tax and new problems will emerge. Booley posted:It's great to fail at list selection time for the crime of "wanting to play space marines" in an edition that is increasingly controlled by hordes and volume of fire. Marines need a buff or a points drop. I prefer a points drop. Hordes of marines v hordes of Orks would be fun. Raphus C fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Jul 15, 2018 |
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Jul 15, 2018 15:44
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Milotic posted:It’s ok to admit when you fail at list selection time and/or deployment and/or not purchasing enough terrain. It's great to fail at list selection time for the crime of "wanting to play space marines" in an edition that is increasingly controlled by hordes and volume of fire.
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Jul 15, 2018 15:45
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Your average total dick 40k fan everyone.
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Jul 15, 2018 15:48
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drat, if only spaces marines had access to the widest range of artillery, anti horde vehicles and a brand new range of gorgeous sculpts whose default weapon is really good at clearing hordes.
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Jul 15, 2018 16:05
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An for those who don't want to play death guard?
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Jul 15, 2018 16:12
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Could put your troops in rhinos, it’s worked pretty well in the past. 150 cultists might kill a single transport, if they’re lucky and all in rapid fire.
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Jul 15, 2018 16:23
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I ran out of Badcast episodes and now I'm sad.   I bought a Badcast badshirt yesterday in the hopes Oh, also just wanted to say that I liked the interview with Sarah Kaiser in episode 32 a great deal!
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Jul 15, 2018 16:25
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Groetgaffel posted:I ran out of Badcast episodes and now I'm sad. The Sarah Kaiser interview was one of the best I had heard.
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Jul 15, 2018 16:26
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Badablack posted:Could put your troops in rhinos, it’s worked pretty well in the past. 150 cultists might kill a single transport, if they’re lucky and all in rapid fire. Rhinos are rather expensive and useless. Could you not put vehicles in front of the infantry to push back infiltrators?
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Jul 15, 2018 16:27
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I’m just going to throw out if you manage to get your important stuff wrecked turn 1 by stuff that has to be 9” away from your models you were not screening properly. I’ve also not been super impressed with the damage output of cultists personally. I had a group of 20 last night with Veterans of the Long War and the Slaanesh strat to fire twice in rapid fire range of my captain and they took all of one wound off. They’re definitely efficient for their cost but when you can only use stuff like VotLW once per phase I have a hard time seeing how they’d effectively table a person. They can absolutely do a bunch of damage and tie stuff up but that’s sort of to be expected when you dump a bunch of CP into something.
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Jul 15, 2018 16:42
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:The Sarah Kaiser interview was one of the best I had heard. The hosts letting her talk and asking good questions made a huge difference compared to some other podcasts out there. Top job imho.
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