|
DrSunshine posted:You know, ExtraNoise, given the amount of response from goons in this thread now that you've posted this mod concept you will be expected to follow through once Imperator comes out. We will be watching. I think the response is very encouraging! I've really enjoyed all the discussion that's happened so far and am glad a consensus seems to have formed understanding the mood and tone of a post-apocalyptic setting that's not super sci-fi or supernatural. I feel like I'm on the right road and am eager to develop the universe so that it feels alive, even when most of the world is dead. Regarding the Abrams: I think it's important to draw a line in the sand on realism versus fun. Composites will be a pretty rare resource, and tanks themselves are not a be-all-end-all fighting unit. Realistically, it's very unlikely a bunch of rabble could get one working (or keep one working) but there's also an opportunity there to let the player do something really loving cool ("I've got a tank!") that I wouldn't want to pass up. I think at the end of the day, my goal is to make sure the player knows how rare a tank is and how difficult it was for their people to get one running using descriptions/flavor text, but not keep that from them. Edit: Top of the page! I just noticed the new I:R dev diary is up (two minutes old) so here it is hot off the press: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/imperator-development-diary-8-16th-of-july-2018.1110794/ Edit 2: Can't help but wonder if Johan included the entire trade goods list just for me. Maybe not. Either way, thanks Johan! 
ExtraNoise fucked around with this message at 07:12 on Jul 16, 2018 |
#
?
Jul 16, 2018 06:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 08:31 |
|
|
ExtraNoise posted:I think the response is very encouraging! I've really enjoyed all the discussion that's happened so far and am glad a consensus seems to have formed understanding the mood and tone of a post-apocalyptic setting that's not super sci-fi or supernatural. I feel like I'm on the right road and am eager to develop the universe so that it feels alive, even when most of the world is dead. That said, I also think it's entirely "fixable" without undermining the idea of having a huge tank in a setting where horses are battlefield equipment. I mean, the things that would be the hardest to maintain are probably also the things that are the least useful in a more primitive setting, various sensors and counter-measures - while "Big shooty mobile thing we can't hurt" can be maintained with more primitive tools. Think technical, but with a tank/APC base, rather than a truck base. Speaking of, if some areas are maintaining tanks, I assume significantly more can maintain trucks to create technicals of various types?
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2018 08:10
|
|
|
Efb Here’s the list for the lazy quote:Grain, Salt, Iron, Horses, Wine, Wood, Amber, Stone, Fish, Spices, Elephants, Base Metals, Precious Metals, Steppe Horses, Livestock, Earthenware, Dyes, Furs, Olives, Leather, Woad, Marble, Honey, Incense, Hemp, Vegetables, Gemstones, Camels, Glass, Silk, Dates, Cloth, Papyrus, Wild Game
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2018 11:22
|
|
|
Should have Mad Max battle wagons instead of tanks, imo
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2018 11:48
|
|
|
Tanks are cool. Hell, go full on Battletanx with your setting.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2018 12:35
|
|
|
Yeah I'd definitely err on the side of cool over realism.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2018 12:42
|
|
|
That's my design mantra.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2018 12:45
|
|
|
Gobblecoque posted:Tanks are cool. Hell, go full on Battletanx with your setting. Cooler than some mad, rusty hedgehog of a VW Type 2, trundling into battle with a cargo of spear-throwing war boys? I think not. Honestly, of all the options for "post-apocalyptic fighting vehicle", "just a tank" is the lamest.  Groogy posted:That's my design mantra. Did you not get your red text claiming that it was perfectly cool and good for the best option in HOI to be 100% basic infantry?
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2018 13:08
|
|
|
No I was explaining during HOI4 development why Da9L had infantry invading the USSR and had his tanks elsewhere. I pointed out there's a big swamp area in northern Poland that at the time would just kill any tanks upon entering it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2018 13:10
|
|
|
Autonomous Monster posted:Cooler than some mad, rusty hedgehog of a VW Type 2, trundling into battle with a cargo of spear-throwing war boys? I think not. I mean I think everyone's going to be envisioning it as a kitbashed war rig of some sort even if it's just called "M1 Abrams" or "Challenger 2"
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2018 13:19
|
|
|
Autonomous Monster posted:Cooler than some mad, rusty hedgehog of a VW Type 2, trundling into battle with a cargo of spear-throwing war boys? I think not. Hey I love Mad Max more than anybody but Mad Max rip-offs are feeling a little overdone and boring at the moment. Tanks on the other hand don't feel like they show up in post-apocalyptic setting too often. And clearly someone never played Battletanx because it shows that post-apocalyptic tanks definitely aren't "just a tank."
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2018 13:37
|
|
|
Surely part of the idea of a post-apocalyptic setting (as opposed to post-post-apocalyptic) is the loss of a bit of know-how and industrial finesse, right? At least, some heaving machine more akin to a British Mark IV than a modern American Abrams would probably fit better- even if there's still got the idea of a tank and enough knowledge to get engines built and running, the ability to construct or refurbish anything close to modern refined levels has surely got to be much reduced. The relatively cruder parts of an earlier sort of tank would be easier to produce, and you could probably more easily cannibalize parts from a wider variety of vehicles to get some lumbering top-speed-of-4-mph behemoth running than a properly modern machine.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2018 13:54
|
|
|
Ofaloaf posted:Surely part of the idea of a post-apocalyptic setting (as opposed to post-post-apocalyptic) is the loss of a bit of know-how and industrial finesse, right? At least, some heaving machine more akin to a British Mark IV than a modern American Abrams would probably fit better- even if there's still got the idea of a tank and enough knowledge to get engines built and running, the ability to construct or refurbish anything close to modern refined levels has surely got to be much reduced. The relatively cruder parts of an earlier sort of tank would be easier to produce, and you could probably more easily cannibalize parts from a wider variety of vehicles to get some lumbering top-speed-of-4-mph behemoth running than a properly modern machine. I just realized that I have been mentally reading your name wrong this entire time, and it is not, in fact "Olafolaf".  EDIT: On topic, I think the trade good system sounds extremely elegant and fun, and I can see myself sinking a lot of time into tweaking and minmaxing my import routes and trade goods to make the ultimate stacked-bonus super cities. DrSunshine fucked around with this message at 14:19 on Jul 16, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2018 14:15
|
|
|
DrSunshine posted:I just realized that I have been mentally reading your name wrong this entire time, and it is not, in fact "Olafolaf". I've just always imagined him as being a loaf of bread that makes you go "oaf" from how stale it is.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2018 14:29
|
|
|
Could a city with a surplus via trade then export some of that surplus to other places? I'm imagining something like Antioch taking the silk trade from the East and dispersing it from there, which could be cool and give you a reason to monopolize trade for a good to export and not just production, but that could be harder to implement than I'm considering.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2018 16:24
|
|
|
A Buttery Pastry posted:Speaking of, if some areas are maintaining tanks, I assume significantly more can maintain trucks to create technicals of various types? Absolutely. Right now I have Technicals slotted in to replace Light Cavalry, making them the go-to backbone for early game armies. Technicals are going to play a HUGE part in the mod. Ofaloaf posted:Surely part of the idea of a post-apocalyptic setting (as opposed to post-post-apocalyptic) is the loss of a bit of know-how and industrial finesse, right? At least, some heaving machine more akin to a British Mark IV than a modern American Abrams would probably fit better- even if there's still got the idea of a tank and enough knowledge to get engines built and running, the ability to construct or refurbish anything close to modern refined levels has surely got to be much reduced. The relatively cruder parts of an earlier sort of tank would be easier to produce, and you could probably more easily cannibalize parts from a wider variety of vehicles to get some lumbering top-speed-of-4-mph behemoth running than a properly modern machine. This is basically how I'm imagining things. It's running and it can shoot, but it's not running or shooting great. In my mind, the setting is somewhere between (not quite) Mad Max and (not quite) The Last of Us (sans zombies, obviously). The southwest will probably feel a little more Mad Max-y, but not with dudes playing guitars on the front of enormous trucks or anything.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2018 16:25
|
|
|
ExtraNoise posted:The southwest will probably feel a little more Mad Max-y, but not with dudes playing guitars on the front of enormous trucks or anything. this strikes me as more of a florida man move than a southwestern one
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2018 16:53
|
|
|
Agean90 posted:this strikes me as more of a florida man move than a southwestern one You try driving around in a flaming sports car when marshes have reclaimed 90% of the state
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2018 17:12
|
|
|
ThatBasqueGuy posted:You try driving around in a flaming sports car when marshes have reclaimed 90% of the state the doofwagon but it's a giant airboat
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2018 17:13
|
|
|
Agean90 posted:the doofwagon but it's a giant airboat https://i.imgur.com/8erai0Y.mp4
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2018 17:35
|
|
|
ExtraNoise posted:Really appreciated all the input with this and tried to apply everything without adding too many new cultures: Here's the "final" cultures map: Oh, hey, thanks for Central Californian. It usually gets ignored (because really, San Francisco, LA, and San Diego do dominate the state both politically and in population), but it's nice to see it in there.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2018 18:30
|
|
|
Talking about Rome and cultures, apparently there's 30 in the game so far. In the Hellenic group.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2018 20:46
|
|
|
Autonomous Monster posted:Talking about Rome and cultures, apparently there's 30 in the game so far. loving hell, really? Is there a link to something I missed? That is amazing.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2018 20:48
|
|
|
ExtraNoise posted:loving hell, really? Is there a link to something I missed? Here. I am extremely ready to have irreconcilable cultural differences with the tribe one valley over. That's not sarcasm, for the terminally online.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2018 20:54
|
|
|
The Hellenic world was at its height at this point in time, so these might actually cover a large area. e: huh, I didn't realize there was a distinction between Hellenistic and Hellenic.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2018 21:10
|
|
|
Phlegmish posted:The Hellenic world was at its height at this point in time, so these might actually cover a large area. You were right either way But yeah there's Greeks scattered all around the Mediterranean as well as mainland Greece, Anatolia and settlements across the Diadochi. Tons of room for lots of cultures.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2018 21:14
|
|
|
Greek culture will very likely be the largest culture in the game, spreading from Emporion to Bactria, so 30 subcultures shouldn't speak to the level of detail throughout. I would be truly shocked if there were more than 3 or 4 Gallic subcultures, for instance. Now watch me be wrong and come to find out there's 30 Gallic subcultures.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2018 21:15
|
|
|
Throw Macedonian into the Hellenic cultures. Watch the fires.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2018 21:16
|
|
|
Funky Valentine posted:Throw Macedonian into the Hellenic cultures. Watch the fires. The Roman Pantheon is also a cheap immitation of the Greek one, so might as well throw them in.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2018 21:18
|
|
|
Just to be clear the name of the culture group is "Greek" not Hellenic.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2018 21:21
|
|
|
Funky Valentine posted:Throw Macedonian into the Hellenic cultures. Watch the fires. Throw it into the proto-Slavic group if you want to start a real life war.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2018 21:21
|
|
|
It's so funny that video game mechanism bookkeeping minutiae are serious internet nationalism business in tyool 2018
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2018 21:25
|
|
|
OperaMouse posted:The Roman Pantheon is also a cheap immitation of the Greek one, so might as well throw them in. Oh, they did. The religions, at least. There's a thread complaining about that, too. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2018 21:52
|
|
|
Funky Valentine posted:Throw Macedonian into the Hellenic cultures. Watch the fires. It definitely is, it would be crazy from a game mechanics perspective otherwise.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2018 22:24
|
|
|
ExtraNoise posted:This is basically how I'm imagining things. It's running and it can shoot, but it's not running or shooting great. If you've got any interest in reading about the practicalities of a post-apocalyptic world, I'd recommend The Knowledge by Lewis Dartnell as a really interesting book on the topic. It's a sort of pop-science book that goes through the basics of what you'd need to restart society--basic chemistry and metallurgy, medicine and electricity. There's an interesting notion in the book that different fields are differently replicable by a post-apocalyptic society, some technologies are basically just knowing a reliable process that any society could replicate, while others rely on globalised trade networks and infrastructure it makes no sense to rebuild. So a post-apocalyptic society could easily look like a weird mishmash of medieval, industrial and modern technologies, because building, for example, modern houses is way easier than building modern ships.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2018 01:56
|
|
|
Autonomous Monster posted:Oh, they did. The religions, at least. There's a thread complaining about that, too. In Eu4 the African Fetishist religion gives you a list of deities with different bonuses and you choose to worship one, and as you encounter more regions of Africa and other religions from outside the continent, more gods get added to your list as you just adopt them as part of the pantheon. I could see something similar being a good mechanical fit for the Roman religion in I:R. It could probably slot into the character system too and have characters choosing their own personal patron deities, which might be another interesting mechanic.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2018 06:42
|
|
|
Reveilled posted:If you've got any interest in reading about the practicalities of a post-apocalyptic world, I'd recommend The Knowledge by Lewis Dartnell as a really interesting book on the topic. It's a sort of pop-science book that goes through the basics of what you'd need to restart society--basic chemistry and metallurgy, medicine and electricity. Electricity in general is easier than a lot of advanced industry or machining if you know how it works. A redeveloping civilization that had all the memories of our technology could have electric lights at an otherwise medieval level. The Knowledge is a very fun book if you're at all into this kind of stuff.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2018 20:12
|
|
|
I guess electricity is one of those things where people only discovered it so late because they had flawed conceptual ideas of how the world worked? Like how there was a belief that light flowed through some invisible medium called “aether” or heat was a liquid that passed from hot to cold things. I guess also a lot of history people had more of an engineering than scientific approach to things - Roman civilization had a lot of advanced mechanical and architectural innovations but they never did “science” for its own sake so they could only ever see technological progress as “finding ways to solve problems” rather than expanding their understanding of the universe.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2018 20:26
|
|
|
The Cheshire Cat posted:I guess electricity is one of those things where people only discovered it so late because they had flawed conceptual ideas of how the world worked? Like how there was a belief that light flowed through some invisible medium called “aether” or heat was a liquid that passed from hot to cold things. People discovered electricity(specifically, static electricity) millenia ago. Problem is that in order to have a useful electric system you need to have all the parts the same time: a generator, a transfer medium or a battery and either a lightbulb or an electric motor. None of those things do anything on their own, and to figure all this out you also need to discover a lot of circuit theory. I don't think electricity was late, it just needed a lot of advances in natural sciences before we were able to take full advantage of it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2018 21:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 08:31 |
|
|
The best part of those old wrong theories is that they're rarely totally wrong, because even incorrect models can be correct enough to give out good enough answers for their intended purposes. They're wrong, sure, but there's varying degrees of wrong.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2018 21:44
|
|
