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PT6A posted:I think a bigger part of the problem than automatic transmissions is that we don't really draw very much of a distinction between having a rudimentary understanding of the law and a basic ability to control a motor vehicle, and actually being able to drive. Driver's ed doesn't cover much beyond the very basics of driving, and I think that's why you see so much dumb poo poo all the time. Being able to drive well is about being able to make good decisions, being able to navigate, being able to predict upcoming hazards, being able to predict what other drivers might do in the near future, etc. and that's all poo poo that people are expected to figure out on their own. Predictably, very few of them actually do. And yet somehow we will have self driving cars (level 5) in a few years...
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Jul 17, 2018 14:34
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C-Bangin' it 
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PT6A posted:I think a bigger part of the problem than automatic transmissions is that we don't really draw very much of a distinction between having a rudimentary understanding of the law and a basic ability to control a motor vehicle, and actually being able to drive. Driver's ed doesn't cover much beyond the very basics of driving, and I think that's why you see so much dumb poo poo all the time. Being able to drive well is about being able to make good decisions, being able to navigate, being able to predict upcoming hazards, being able to predict what other drivers might do in the near future, etc. and that's all poo poo that people are expected to figure out on their own. Predictably, very few of them actually do. Schools in my area don't even have drivers ed anymore due to budgets and liability. Only the reasonably well off people can afford to put their kids through any sort of drivers education, the rest of the kids only get whatever training mom and dad give them.
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Jul 17, 2018 15:19
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The Locator posted:Schools in my area don't even have drivers ed anymore due to budgets and liability. Only the reasonably well off people can afford to put their kids through any sort of drivers education, the rest of the kids only get whatever training mom and dad give them. I don't think schools ever had it up here in Canada, so it's sort of the same situation. You do get an insurance discount for taking it, though, so it's a prudent financial decision even if it's an extra cost up front. But, yeah, I'm a flight instructor now and if we treated planes the same way we treat cars, I'd send my students solo after 5-6 hours, they'd have a full license by 20 hours and people would die on a stunningly regular basis. Part of the piss-off with driving is that I can look at how flight training works and realize we know how to teach people to safely operate even very complex vehicles, and regulate it to ensure they remain competent, and we just don't care to do it with cars and trucks because we've decided ARE FREEDUMS are more important than widespread death and injury.
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Jul 17, 2018 16:49
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The Locator posted:Schools in my area don't even have drivers ed anymore due to budgets and liability. Only the reasonably well off people can afford to put their kids through any sort of drivers education, the rest of the kids only get whatever training mom and dad give them. When was the last time driver's education was actually taught by public schools? When I was in high school (late 90s-early 2000s) my school district was on the high side of middle of the road in terms of funding, but contracted with a third party driving school for driver's ed.
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Jul 17, 2018 18:03
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PT6A posted:But, yeah, I'm a flight instructor now and if we treated planes the same way we treat cars, I'd send my students solo after 5-6 hours, they'd have a full license by 20 hours and people would die on a stunningly regular basis. Part of the piss-off with driving is that I can look at how flight training works and realize we know how to teach people to safely operate even very complex vehicles, and regulate it to ensure they remain competent, and we just don't care to do it with cars and trucks because we've decided ARE FREEDUMS are more important than widespread death and injury. I think the huge misconception is that if you are in a car and things go really bad, you can just jam the brake and be “safe”, which is why we let 16 year olds drive on the street after a 15-minute introduction to the car. Meanwhile people who are decent at driving realize it’s a machine with a 4,000 lb mass and requires some major finessing after said brakes are jammed, which defeats the first argument immediately. Combine this with the fact that many places in North America have no feasible way to have a kid or person walk to their destinations in any reasonable amount of time, and you have a public who doesn’t care about the deaths involved so long as Skyler can get himself to practice and not bother mom or dad. If all planes had usable ejector seats for when poo poo went sour and the aircraft manufacturing organizations had a lobbyist in governments pushing for plane sales, I’d bet you’d see the public look favorably upon flying and see the government receive pressure on lowering the requirements for licenses (like with the sport-pilot license in the US, which was created to let old farts keep flying). Especially if you could convince someone living in a remote rural tax haven that a plane could get them to work in 15 minutes instead of an hour. Oh, how the bloodshed would be incredible.
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Jul 17, 2018 18:04
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Stealing from the schad thread (thanks Enos Cabell): https://i.imgur.com/xN5IK3n.mp4
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Jul 17, 2018 18:05
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Geoj posted:When was the last time driver's education was actually taught by public schools? When I was in high school (late 90s-early 2000s) my school district was on the high side of middle of the road in terms of funding, but contracted with a third party driving school for driver's ed. I graduated from public school in 2011 and I had driver's ed in 2009. I think it's mostly because we had a local Chevy dealership donate a few previously leased 04 Impalas full of dealership bumper stickers
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Jul 17, 2018 18:23
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iospace posted:Stealing from the schad thread (thanks Enos Cabell):  it's like that delta p vs crab gif 
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Jul 17, 2018 18:36
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I saw a woman on a rental scooter come to a screeching halt (or as close as you can get doing 20) in the middle of the road to adjust her helmet. She didn't even roll it to the side, she just stopped traffic for a minute. Dude behind her must have been checking out girls (it was next to a beach) because he came really close to hitting her. Luckily for them both he wasn't going all that fast, he noticed at the last moment. She didn't seem to notice and just took off. Tourists....iospace posted:Stealing from the schad thread (thanks Enos Cabell): Not what I was expecting, but funnier.
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Jul 17, 2018 18:41
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Driver's ed for me was back in '90. He was a Korean war vet and taught Senior level history. He was salty as they came. During the classroom session he would talk about breaking open compasses during wartime and straining the fluid through cheesecloth so they could get a buzz. Also told a story where everyday before getting to school to teach he would have an "incident" with another driver. Finally the other driver pulled out a rifle and the teacher said "welp, you win." We'd drive out into the boondocks. Find some donut shop. He'd get out and smoke his pipe. Anyone that would honk at us he'd flip them off. I miss that dude.
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Jul 17, 2018 20:37
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Mostly what I remember from drivers ed was getting into a weeks-long disagreement with the teacher about stop signs. He seemed to think that you had to draw an imaginary line across the road at the position of the sign itself, and stop at that, instead of at the painted stop line or (if there's no line) "before entering the intersection", which is what the state law actually says. He seemed to feel his view was simply what was meant by "stopping at a stop sign", so therefore I was advocating not stopping at stop signs, and therefore obviously wrong.  In hindsight, he taught me a lot about the way many people's minds work.
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Jul 17, 2018 21:15
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Powered Descent posted:Mostly what I remember from drivers ed was getting into a weeks-long disagreement with the teacher about stop signs. He seemed to think that you had to draw an imaginary line across the road at the position of the sign itself, and stop at that, instead of at the painted stop line or (if there's no line) "before entering the intersection", which is what the state law actually says. Heh, curious about the stop sign situation. The hag that flunked my kid twice is because he wouldn't stop at the stop sign. Because, well if you did, you couldn't see poo poo around the trees, shrubs, and whatever else. And there are no painted lines around here.
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Jul 17, 2018 21:38
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In that case aren’t you supposed to stop at the sign, then move forward until you can visually clear the intersection? Granted this doesn’t happen in real life but just do what they want for the test.
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Jul 17, 2018 21:43
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Colostomy Bag posted:Heh, curious about the stop sign situation. The hag that flunked my kid twice is because he wouldn't stop at the stop sign. Because, well if you did, you couldn't see poo poo around the trees, shrubs, and whatever else. And there are no painted lines around here. When I come up on signs like that I just stop and the sign and crawl forward till I can see. Seeing as most people never actually do more than slow down a lot I've never gotten ticketed or even bothered about it.
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Jul 17, 2018 21:46
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big crush on Chad OMG posted:In that case aren’t you supposed to stop at the sign, then move forward until you can visually clear the intersection? It's this, and usually what ends up happening in practice is people stop beyond the sign, but able to see past the obstructions. You're also supposed to do the same thing with crosswalks, but again, in practice, never happens.
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Jul 17, 2018 21:47
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This could be a thing that varies by jurisdiction, but here's what state law says here (Ohio):ORC 4511.43 (A) posted:Except when directed to proceed by a law enforcement officer, every driver of a vehicle or trackless trolley approaching a stop sign shall stop at a clearly marked stop line, but if none, before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection, or, if none, then at the point nearest the intersecting roadway where the driver has a view of approaching traffic on the intersecting roadway before entering it. After having stopped, the driver shall yield the right-of-way to any vehicle in the intersection or approaching on another roadway so closely as to constitute an immediate hazard during the time the driver is moving across or within the intersection or junction of roadways. The position of the actual stop sign has absolutely nothing to do with where you're supposed to stop.
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Jul 17, 2018 21:50
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Max Peck posted:This could be a thing that varies by jurisdiction, but here's what state law says here (Ohio): I bet you they’ll say if there isn’t a stop line painted then the stop line extends directly out from the stop sign itself. Regardless, I’d just avoid arguing with a DMV employee
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Jul 17, 2018 22:41
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I had a driver ed teacher have me go 35 on a highway due to a construction zone that wasn't being worked on. A little bit later she told me to switch lanes on solid white because "it's only solid so it's easier to see"
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Jul 17, 2018 23:04
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Powered Descent posted:Mostly what I remember from drivers ed was getting into a weeks-long disagreement with the teacher about stop signs. He seemed to think that you had to draw an imaginary line across the road at the position of the sign itself, and stop at that, instead of at the painted stop line or (if there's no line) "before entering the intersection", which is what the state law actually says.
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Jul 18, 2018 02:41
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Ripoff posted:Combine this with the fact that many places in North America have no feasible way to have a kid or person walk to their destinations in any reasonable amount of time, and you have a public who doesn’t care about the deaths involved so long as Skyler can get himself to practice and not bother mom or dad. you mean Schughluheugher
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Jul 18, 2018 03:45
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big crush on Chad OMG posted:I bet you they’ll say if there isn’t a stop line painted then the stop line extends directly out from the stop sign itself. An imaginary stop line is not "clearly marked", and it's the MUTCD that gets to decide what a stop line is anyway  And, yeah, that's probably good life advice in general, but in the hypothetical event I'm already failing a driving exam, I'll gleefully start a red tape war. Submarine Sandpaper posted:A little bit later she told me to switch lanes on solid white because "it's only solid so it's easier to see"
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Jul 18, 2018 04:42
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:
I was under the impression that single lines were for discouraging lane changes, but it was okay to do so. Looks like I was wrong, but everyone does it anyhow. I guess it's just one more law no one bothers enforcing unless they want to gently caress with you.
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Jul 18, 2018 04:53
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Max Peck posted:MUTCD again: a single white line only indicates changing lanes is discouraged, not prohibited. "Easier to see" is of course bollocks, but it's a legal move. That's a thing here. There's like 2 miles of I-5 that's on a raised viaduct. It's a bridge with no shoulders so it's prone to ice in winter and there's nowhere to move a vehicle to if you break down or crash. It has a single white line, which everyone is absolutely certain means no lane changes at all, to the point where enough people call the cops about other people changing lanes there (lol) that the city PD occasionally has to put out an announcement about it. It's great. 
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Jul 18, 2018 05:55
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The Locator posted:Schools in my area don't even have drivers ed anymore due to budgets and liability. Only the reasonably well off people can afford to put their kids through any sort of drivers education, the rest of the kids only get whatever training mom and dad give them. Texas used to allow anybody to get a license at 18; 16 if you had completed drivers ed (with a learners permit at 15). Now? 15 and 16 rules are still in place. No drivers ed? No license until you're 25. Your parents can still teach you, but they'll now have to drop $20 on a packet from the state, order classroom materials (seems to be $50+), and log a bunch of classroom hours, then still go to the DPS and do a driving test. For better or for worse, I didn't have to take a driving test  , since I went through an actual drivers ed course - my instructor was able to sign off on that. I think today everyone has to take it?My home town is ~30 minutes from downtown to New Mexico.. where you at least used to be able to get a full license at 15. Not sure if that's still the case, but in my HS, I knew a few people who took the New Mexico test and put down a friend's address in NM as their home address.
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Jul 18, 2018 06:43
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Javid posted:That's a thing here. There's like 2 miles of I-5 that's on a raised viaduct. It's a bridge with no shoulders so it's prone to ice in winter and there's nowhere to move a vehicle to if you break down or crash. It has a single white line, which everyone is absolutely certain means no lane changes at all, to the point where enough people call the cops about other people changing lanes there (lol) that the city PD occasionally has to put out an announcement about it. It's great. E 8th Street in Medford, OR Get ODOT to remove the orange sign saying “NO LANE CHANGES NEXT ˝ MILE” 
Platystemon fucked around with this message at 07:23 on Jul 18, 2018 |
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Jul 18, 2018 07:15
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In Australia we tend to have a graduated license scheme but at least in nsw it doesn’t tend to work terribly well. You are supposed to do 120hrs of supervised driving before taking a practical test to be on your own. 20 of those hours need to be at night and the only discount is if you have a driving instructor with you. What instead happens is people forge the hours and get let out on the road without much experience. There’s another test to get onto the next stage of license before you can get your full license 3 years minimum after you began. There was another test to get your full license but they got rid of it at the end of last year.
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Jul 18, 2018 13:41
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Dr. Garbanzo posted:In Australia we tend to have a graduated license scheme but at least in nsw it doesn’t tend to work terribly well. You are supposed to do 120hrs of supervised driving before taking a practical test to be on your own. 20 of those hours need to be at night and the only discount is if you have a driving instructor with you. What instead happens is people forge the hours and get let out on the road without much experience. There’s another test to get onto the next stage of license before you can get your full license 3 years minimum after you began. There was another test to get your full license but they got rid of it at the end of last year. See, this seems like an overreaction. 120 hours of supervised driving is quite a lot. It'd be better if it were lower, but had required elements like how to handle various emergency situations, and how to navigate to new destinations in areas you're unfamiliar with (possibly from a situation like "oops, you missed your exit... without backing down the highway like an imbecile, what do you do to arrive at your original destination?")
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Jul 18, 2018 14:15
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Dr. Garbanzo posted:In Australia we tend to have a graduated license scheme but at least in nsw it doesn’t tend to work terribly well. You are supposed to do 120hrs of supervised driving before taking a practical test to be on your own. 20 of those hours need to be at night and the only discount is if you have a driving instructor with you. What instead happens is people forge the hours and get let out on the road without much experience. There’s another test to get onto the next stage of license before you can get your full license 3 years minimum after you began. There was another test to get your full license but they got rid of it at the end of last year. Pennsylvania tried to do a 40-hour of training minimum across 6 months before they’d let you take the test, but the training can be with any licensed driver. Every single parent I knew just filled out the form saying they hit 40 hours and I don’t think one person at the department of motor vehicles gave a gently caress. It was a joke. Germany does it right because they honestly teach you, but the cost was around 2,000 EUR last I checked. The expense would kill most American families (lol we treat our citizens like they’re disposable) but is an option in a country with real, honest to god public transit options.
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Jul 18, 2018 14:24
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Crotch Fruit posted:Per my drivers ed, the letter of the law is to stop even with the sign regardless of whether you can see or not, then pull forward and stop again, two stops for one stop sign. I met one instructor how tried to advocate for a 3rd stop, at the sidewalk before the stop sign. That is correct. If you're at an intersection that has a crosswalk, you can not cross it until it is clear and you are supposed to check it. In practice, no one does.
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Jul 18, 2018 14:26
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Ripoff posted:Germany [...] a country with real, honest to god public transit options. Not if you live in the countryside or in a smaller town. It's a 1-hour and 20-minute drive from my girlfriend's family to Strasbourg (or Kehl, to stay on the German side. Google is utterly unable to create a public transit route. Best I could figure manually, it would take at least 8 hours by public transit.
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Jul 18, 2018 15:11
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Yep, Europe's mass transit is light years beyond what the US has but it really only approaches "this is as versatile as a car!" territory if you stay in the population centers. You can't hop on a train on a whim and be deposited at your favorite rural swimming hole a couple hours later.
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Jul 18, 2018 16:03
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Some US cities have awesome public transportation. Boston is awesome - you can get virtually anywhere in the city on the subways and there are only 4 main lines, plus the Commuter Rail is easily accessible and runs as far out as Rhode Island in multiple directions. The buses are kind of meh but serviceable.
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Jul 18, 2018 16:28
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Copenhagen has some of the best public transit in the world. Going to my girlfriend's place in Lyngby takes around 15 minutes by car, but around 45 minutes by train and bus, the quickest route. Granted, that is an extreme example, but there are certainly drawbacks to not having a car, even here.
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Jul 18, 2018 16:59
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iospace posted:That is correct. If you're at an intersection that has a crosswalk, you can not cross it until it is clear and you are supposed to check it. Really? Because it's pretty easy to check if a crosswalk is clear while rolling up to it. The idea that you need to stop in order to do so is asinine, unless there are visibility issues at that particular intersection.
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Jul 18, 2018 17:08
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These are people you share a canal with: quote:A boater accidentally drained a stretch of the Kennet and Avon Canal after leaving all the lock gates open. 
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Jul 18, 2018 21:32
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These are the mobility scooters you share a road with e: what a rabbit hole. This lady is insane. Check out her channel...
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Jul 18, 2018 23:18
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On license chat, in Iowa you can drive to and from school unaccompanied if you live more than a mile from school and have completed drivers ed if you're 14.5 years of age. No passengers allowed, though.
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Jul 19, 2018 00:42
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The gently caress is she doing in the street with that thing?
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Jul 19, 2018 00:46
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Adiabatic posted:These are the mobility scooters you share a road with Holy poo poo, pro click here. This woman has serious issues. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiAM5-pC6s0 *Woman walking her dog 30ft in front of this crazy*  WHY WONT YOU LET ME GO AHEAD OF YOU????
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Jul 19, 2018 00:57
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I wonder why all her videos have the comments disabled...
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