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I mean, I'm all about a bunch of scrappy underdogs taking on THE MAN, but Shadowrun simultaneously presents that as a valid playstyle while also catering significant portions of its rules to people who want to play high-speed corporate operatives... making a world that makes no goddamn sense for the former to play in. Like, every time I talk to people who are big into Shadowrun, it just turns into this endless procession of stuff your character needs to survive and these unwritten rules of how you "need" to run. Give me a system that rewards rolling up to some corp outpost in a tricked-out killdozer blaring punk music any day, rather than corporate deniable ops simulator.
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Jul 18, 2018 07:43
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Tricky posted:Give me a system that rewards rolling up to some corp outpost in a tricked-out killdozer blaring punk music any day, rather than corporate deniable ops simulator. Hell ye
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Jul 18, 2018 07:45
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kingcom posted:You can have socialist utopia ala Star Trek my dude. Yeah but Star Trek doesn't really have the cyberpunk aesthetic which is what drrockso20 is specifically saying he'd like to keep. Star Trek with mohawks would be pretty rad though.
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Jul 18, 2018 07:48
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If you wanna do the Cyber without the Punk you're gonna have to put some work into explaining a counter culture aesthetic where things are kinda just going alright. You don't have to add, say, the body horror elements (as a for instance) that show up in some works in order to do the -punk elements, though, so it can kind of depend on which parts of the themes you don't like.
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Jul 18, 2018 08:04
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Kai Tave posted:Yeah but Star Trek doesn't really have the cyberpunk aesthetic which is what drrockso20 is specifically saying he'd like to keep. Star Trek with mohawks would be pretty rad though. My dude, depends how you feel about cgi mushrooms and STDs. S.J. posted:If you wanna do the Cyber without the Punk you're gonna have to put some work into explaining a counter culture aesthetic where things are kinda just going alright. You don't have to add, say, the body horror elements (as a for instance) that show up in some works in order to do the -punk elements, though, so it can kind of depend on which parts of the themes you don't like. I assume he wants to avoid the failure of capitalism theme.
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Jul 18, 2018 08:28
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Kai Tave posted:Yeah but Star Trek doesn't really have the cyberpunk aesthetic which is what drrockso20 is specifically saying he'd like to keep. Star Trek with mohawks would be pretty rad though. Kinda depends, Star Trek's had an episode or two with outright noir settings, usually outside the Federation, since well, the entire setting isn't the Federation with its shiny stuff and trying very hard to be a utopia. One of the things I like about Star Trek, especially in later TNG and DS9, is the idea that the Federation is a genuinely nice place to live and a force for good, because people actively work to keep it that way and have their priorities in order, and it still takes constant vigilance, work and improvement to keep it from backsliding into the kind of societies it was built to escape. The Prime Directive gets used badly often, but the core idea is to present a hard rule against colonialism and interventionism knowing ultimately no good can come of it. Now picturing Cyberpunk Ferengi.
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Jul 18, 2018 08:40
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Ghost Leviathan posted:One of the things I like about Star Trek, especially in later TNG and DS9, is the idea that the Federation is a genuinely nice place to live and a force for good, because people actively work to keep it that way and have their priorities in order, and it still takes constant vigilance, work and improvement to keep it from backsliding into the kind of societies it was built to escape. The Prime Directive gets used badly often, but the core idea is to present a hard rule against colonialism and interventionism knowing ultimately no good can come of it.
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Jul 18, 2018 08:54
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Wrong goddamn thread.
Lupercalcalcal fucked around with this message at 09:54 on Jul 18, 2018 |
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Jul 18, 2018 09:31
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Tricky posted:Give me a system that rewards rolling up to some corp outpost in a tricked-out killdozer blaring punk music any day
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Jul 18, 2018 09:47
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drrockso20 posted:Honestly while Cyberpunk is a genre that's one of my favorites from an aesthetic point, I'll admit I loving despise most of the themes the genre runs on, if mostly because I find they are too close to reality for my liking and it ends up making me get depressed, as I want my fiction to take me away from the real world's problems, not remind me of them First one's free 
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Jul 18, 2018 09:57
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S.J. posted:If you wanna do the Cyber without the Punk you're gonna have to put some work into explaining a counter culture aesthetic where things are kinda just going alright. You don't have to add, say, the body horror elements (as a for instance) that show up in some works in order to do the -punk elements, though, so it can kind of depend on which parts of the themes you don't like. I mean, post-cyberpunk is right there; it's literally cyberpunk with less nihilism and where technological change, while still partially alienating, has the power to do good on a societal level when wielded correctly. There's nothing stopping anyone from using the OG 80s aesthetic with post-cyberpunk. The problem is that no one (to my knowledge) has really tried to make a post-cyberpunk game, because people are more interested in playing D&D where magic swords are cyberware and dungeons are arcologies than they are in playing a game where a replicator blueprint cracker, a collectivist micro-farmer, a teashop owner, a freelance actuary and a vocaloid collector get together to stop the shutdown of their local community centre.
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Jul 18, 2018 10:14
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fool_of_sound posted:Honestly my conclusion after playing a substantial amount of Shadowrun is that I don't actually like the fantasy elements at all, and what I really want from a cyberpunk game is a game where equipment is both detailed and the primary method of defining characters' capabilities. I'm willing to bet most people who play Shadowrun are drawn in by a particular element or two, and would be better served by a game that supports those elements. fool_of_sound posted:I really feel like the dehumanizing aspect of tech-as-power-source is core to cyberpunk. YOU genuinely aren't anyone special. Nobody is. Tech is so advanced that it's all that matters. The chips in your head are better than any education, cyberarms beat hitting the gym, your gun can aim better than you can, you sure as hell can't hack without a top of the line system. Oh hey, I pretty much wrote that cyberpunk game. I really should pretty it up and let people give me money for it. Giving it away for free feels somehow counter to the theme. 
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Jul 18, 2018 10:19
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Lemon-Lime posted:The problem is that no one (to my knowledge) has really tried to make a post-cyberpunk game, because people are more interested in playing D&D where magic swords are cyberware and dungeons are arcologies than they are in playing a game where a replicator blueprint cracker, a collectivist micro-farmer, a teashop owner, a freelance actuary and a vocaloid collector get together to stop the shutdown of their local community centre. Once you get out of the most densely Shadowrun-inspired parts of Eclipse Phase, it begins to look like this.
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Jul 18, 2018 10:41
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LatwPIAT posted:Once you get out of the most densely Shadowrun-inspired parts of Eclipse Phase, it begins to look like this. EP is good in part because it allows you to run stuff like that, yeah. The problem is it's kind of incidental to the rest of the game as printed, which is mostly about playing Takeshi Kovacs expies, but it's still more than zero textual support for sure. Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 10:47 on Jul 18, 2018 |
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Jul 18, 2018 10:43
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DigitalRaven posted:Oh hey, I pretty much wrote that cyberpunk game. Release the game for cheap but find a way to shoehorn lootboxes into it and you'll have a modern cyberpunk masterpiece.
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Jul 18, 2018 10:44
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A cyberpunk game where major arms manufacturers sell literal lootboxes. Maybe you'll get a lovely 3D printed disposable pistol but maybe you'll get the brand new Magtech Black Mamba with the integrated SmartFire™ app.
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Jul 18, 2018 10:47
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Kai Tave posted:A cyberpunk game where major arms manufacturers sell literal lootboxes. Maybe you'll get a lovely 3D printed disposable pistol but maybe you'll get the brand new Magtech Black Mamba with the integrated SmartFire™ app. You have no idea how much I love you for this idea. I'm going to do it. I have an idea of how lootboxes can work, as well...
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Jul 18, 2018 10:53
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DigitalRaven posted:You have no idea how much I love you for this idea. The one good thing about this insanely stupid timeline we live in is that you can put the dumbest, most exaggerated, over-the-top ideas into your dystopian future settings, I'm talking stuff with all the subtlety and nuance of a ten ton weight smashing down on top of the reader, and nobody can actually say that you might not be underestimating things just a tad.
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Jul 18, 2018 10:55
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DigitalRaven posted:I'm going to do it. I have an idea of how lootboxes can work, as well... It's incredibly easy to do in-universe lootboxes for a pen and paper game: just make a d% table.
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Jul 18, 2018 11:04
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It sounds like you want a setting like Iain M. Banks' The Culture. Non-dystopian with crazy body modding and high tech gear. You play as a Contact or Special Circumstances team with the gamemaster being the Mind running the operation. Holy poo poo, why has no one made this? Edit: Any suggestions for game systems that would work well? I haven't tried Blades in the Dark yet, would that work? A lot of Banks stories had non-linear (or at least interrupted by flashbacks) narrative flow. mkultra419 fucked around with this message at 11:21 on Jul 18, 2018 |
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Jul 18, 2018 11:19
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Lemon-Lime posted:It's incredibly easy to do in-universe lootboxes for a pen and paper game: just make a d% table. Oh no, this isn't just in-universe. I'mma sell them for cash money. Nobody will buy them, but it'd be funny.
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Jul 18, 2018 12:25
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Anyone played tales from the loop?
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Jul 18, 2018 12:51
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mkultra419 posted:Iain M. Banks' The Culture Yes. Yes it would. One of the character archetypes in the core Blades book is explicitly a master planner supporting the party, potentially never leaving the safety of the headquarters. mkultra419 posted:Holy poo poo,
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Jul 18, 2018 12:56
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Kai Tave posted:A cyberpunk game where major arms manufacturers sell literal lootboxes. Maybe you'll get a lovely 3D printed disposable pistol but maybe you'll get the brand new Magtech Black Mamba with the integrated SmartFire™ app. Kai Tave posted:The one good thing about this insanely stupid timeline we live in is that you can put the dumbest, most exaggerated, over-the-top ideas into your dystopian future settings, I'm talking stuff with all the subtlety and nuance of a ten ton weight smashing down on top of the reader, and nobody can actually say that you might not be underestimating things just a tad. Well, there's yet another hilariously ridiculous idea to steal for a brutally satirical cyberpunk setting. Could have the PCs be the ones who deliberately circumvent the ridiculous system with cracks and malware to break DRM and take advantage of the ridiculous gamification and networking experiments that the megacorps loving love.
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Jul 18, 2018 12:56
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DigitalRaven posted:Oh no, this isn't just in-universe. Didn't D&D (or was it Pathfinder?) run with card packs for the various classes that gave you a randomized selection of powers? I can't remember if it actually was in the CCG style or not, but it would certainly lend itself to it!
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Jul 18, 2018 12:58
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kingcom posted:So unfortunately thats kind of the point of cyberpunk. The entire thesis statement of the genre is that the technological revolution that is coming isn't going to save us from our social issues. Its going to make them worse. And that's why at this point it's just a sad power fantasy today. The setting is already true but there's no shadowrunners or street samurais around to fight the megacorps.
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Jul 18, 2018 13:01
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Plutonis posted:And that's why at this point it's just a sad power fantasy today. The setting is already true but there's no shadowrunners or street samurais around to fight the megacorps. In a fictional setting the evil megacorps that control everything and thrive on the suffering of their employees have cool names though like Renraku and Aztechnology but in real life they have lame names like Google and Amazon.
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Jul 18, 2018 13:38
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Plutonis posted:And that's why at this point it's just a sad power fantasy today. The setting is already true but there's no shadowrunners or street samurais around to fight the megacorps. Yep. That’s why optimistic, inclusive fantasy is so big these days. Though there’s still the matter or letting off steam through expression of anger and frustration... Maybe it’s time for the Era of the Daikaiju RPG.
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Jul 18, 2018 13:51
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stay tuned for my Blades hack Wrenches in the Works where you play as a cell of revolutionaries fighting the man with industrial sabotage and workplace radicalization e: lol, Gears does sound better tho Serf fucked around with this message at 14:11 on Jul 18, 2018 |
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Jul 18, 2018 14:07
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LatwPIAT posted:Didn't D&D (or was it Pathfinder?) run with card packs for the various classes that gave you a randomized selection of powers? I can't remember if it actually was in the CCG style or not, but it would certainly lend itself to it! I don't think either D&D or Pathfinder did that (4e D&D had cards, but they weren't random and were just another way to display your powers). Now, Gamma World 7e (which was based on 4e) definitely did have boosters of random powers.
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Jul 18, 2018 14:12
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Didn’t Clint McElroy have cards?
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Jul 18, 2018 14:17
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Yeah, 5e sells spell cards for its magic-users. I've used them a couple of times.
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Jul 18, 2018 14:23
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LatwPIAT posted:Didn't D&D (or was it Pathfinder?) run with card packs for the various classes that gave you a randomized selection of powers? I can't remember if it actually was in the CCG style or not, but it would certainly lend itself to it! 4e had "power packs" of little cards that summarized your class powers, but it wasn't random. senrath posted:I don't think either D&D or Pathfinder did that (4e D&D had cards, but they weren't random and were just another way to display your powers). Now, Gamma World 7e (which was based on 4e) definitely did have boosters of random powers. goddamn if Paizo ever figures out that they could, like, publish adventure path and player-supplement loot boxes. Buy the mystery book over and over until you get the archetype that you want!
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Jul 18, 2018 14:25
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Serf posted:stay tuned for my Blades hack Wrenches in the Works where you play as a cell of revolutionaries fighting the man with industrial sabotage and workplace radicalization That sure is a funny way to spell Spire: The City Must Fall. (But for real though I'd play that.)
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Jul 18, 2018 14:28
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Kai Tave posted:A cyberpunk game where major arms manufacturers sell literal lootboxes. Maybe you'll get a lovely 3D printed disposable pistol but maybe you'll get the brand new Magtech Black Mamba with the integrated SmartFire™ app. In most shadowrun games, wouldn't a non-metalic 3D printed pistol be very good? I distinctly remember buying ceramic guns for certain runs.
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Jul 18, 2018 14:35
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gradenko_2000 posted:goddamn if Paizo ever figures out that they could, like, publish adventure path and player-supplement loot boxes. Buy the mystery book over and over until you get the archetype that you want! They already sell random miniatures, so...
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Jul 18, 2018 14:37
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Serf posted:stay tuned for my Blades hack Wrenches in the Works where you play as a cell of revolutionaries fighting the man with industrial sabotage and workplace radicalization I'd prefer Bourgeoisie in the Guillotine tbh.
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Jul 18, 2018 14:58
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LatwPIAT posted:Didn't D&D (or was it Pathfinder?) run with card packs for the various classes that gave you a randomized selection of powers? I can't remember if it actually was in the CCG style or not, but it would certainly lend itself to it! So the way I'm thinking of doing it is total Capitalist Bastard Mode. You can get: * Skins (pre-statted pieces of equipment that you have to use but that come out of your starting budget so they have no game effect) * Mods (pre-statted pieces of equipment that you get in addition to starting stuff, for the power creep) * Contacts (people who want you to do stuff, when you do you get bonus cash — effectively predefined side missions) And probably other poo poo. 50 entries or so. Dress it up so it's obviously a fake thing, a way to buy a mini-supplement or support my work or poo poo like that, and big disclaimers about buyer's remorse. "You are buying non-physical content for the Meat Is Murder roleplaying game. If your GM does not let you use it, tough. If you do not want to throw your money at a game designer with a serious chance of getting nothing useful in return, then DO NOT BUY THIS." Each roll is $1, four for $3, eight for $5. A roll gets you one item from the list, generated at random, on a little card-size PNG or PDF you can take to your GM that has a "you must let the player use this" note. However, because I'm not a total subhuman bastard (and to stop people feeling too conned), each page has a "BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE!" bit. Buying 1 gets you the front 20% of the list. If you spring for $3, you get the back 50%. And if you spring $5, you get the entire list. A mini-supplement of pre-generated stuff that also has a page of "loot-boxes in the setting, this is how you can engage with it as a player, this is how you can use it as a GM, also thank you very much for sticking money in my beer fund."
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Jul 18, 2018 15:07
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kingcom posted:I'd prefer Bourgeoisie in the Guillotine tbh. Heads in the Basket
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Jul 18, 2018 15:22
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My extremely late 2c on Shadowrun/Cyberpunk chat: I love the idea of cyberpunk games, I love the aesthetic, I think the oppressive themes make a fun place to play and explore when interspersed with oodles of cool technology or weird magic trolls or whatever. The problem I do have is that it's a genre that relies almost 100% on GM fiat to play the way its usually presented. Nobody is doing high-risk raids on corporate offices now, today, because cameras and security and firewalls exist. In a setting where megacorps have usurped the government and you can link your brain directly to a remote camera feed, is that security supposed to get worse? I do like that some later editions of Shadowrun try to handwave this away, like there's just so much crime and the corps own so much property that there's no way for them to track it all, but that's really bullshit. Cameras and alarms are really cheap. So the situation I always seem to see is that the big, evil megacorps are oppressive thematically in the setting, in actual gameplay they come across as either toothless or stoogelike. Yeah, yeah, I know another common trope is that Mr. Johnson sent the runners after a corp he represents for some deniable insurance payout or whatever but again, if your game is full of those kinds of 'twists' they get stale fast (if the players ever even discover them - more professionally-oriented runners might go out of their way to not figure stuff like that out.) As far as cool cyberpunk settings I just love the Android world. The runners come from all backgrounds and walks of life, the corps are ruthless and greedy but genuinely do seem interested in moving society forward, there's a bit of nascent space colonization, the whole thing feels like there's a little more hope and optimism involved even if it is still possible to wander into the wrong server and get your brain fried.
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