|
Tricky posted:Give me a system that rewards rolling up to some corp outpost in a tricked-out killdozer blaring punk music any day, rather than corporate deniable ops simulator. Ding ding ding! My problem with most cyberpunk isn't that it's a dystopia, it's that they can't concieve of characters who's fight against it. It's got the cyber, but it's terrible at the punk. fool_of_sound posted:Yeah, the themes of cyberpunk aren't pleasant. It certainly not an escapist genre. The core fantasy of the cyberpunk character is that of the clever and ruthless underdog. You're missing the forest for the trees. You're overly focusing on "how the character does" and not paying any attention to "what" or "why," largely because basically no cyberpunk tabletop game ever pays attention to those things. I want more then just the Villa Straylight job repeated forever. My point isn't that it's a power fantasy, it's that, quite frankly, it's not a power fantasy. A power fantasy would be about actually fighting the corps and organizing around your neighborhood and community and fighting to save not the world, but this street. But instead we get "and now you work for the corps in a morally ambiguous mission!" on repeat without end. I mean, poo poo, you're doing it right here yourself! You're viewing the only possible "power fantasy" as purely escapist, maybe the tech isn't so bad, etc. The escapist part is not literally escaping. It's fighting back.
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2018 15:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 14:10 |
|
|
Don’t forget “Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom” where one’s social media status (likes/dislikes) translated to real-world currency. The main character was a ride manager for the Haunted Mansion and his paycheck changed in real-time based on rider satisfaction. They also had the tech to do mental backups and download into clones like Eclipse Phase (and Paranoia  ).
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2018 16:04
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2018 16:11
|
|
|
I'd play an FFG dice Android RPG.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2018 16:18
|
|
|
DigitalRaven posted:Oh hey, I pretty much wrote that cyberpunk game. You should sell three different tiers with nicer art. Free, $5, and $10. The only rules difference is that the $5 copy says “If you paid for this game add 1to all rolls you make in game.” And the :tenbux: one says ‘2’.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2018 16:21
|
|
|
Serf posted:stay tuned for my Blades hack Wrenches in the Works where you play as a cell of revolutionaries fighting the man with industrial sabotage and workplace radicalization Actually who not use a game about a group that is indeed fighting capitalist society and its soldiers even now? *Nasheed starts playing as a black flag appears from the distance*
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2018 16:30
|
|
|
ProfessorCirno posted:You're missing the forest for the trees. You're overly focusing on "how the character does" and not paying any attention to "what" or "why," largely because basically no cyberpunk tabletop game ever pays attention to those things. I want more then just the Villa Straylight job repeated forever. You've completely missed the point of every single thing I've said. Like really badly. I'm mystified as to how you read it that way.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2018 16:55
|
|
|
DalaranJ posted:You should sell three different tiers with nicer art. Free, $5, and $10. The only rules difference is that the $5 copy says “If you paid for this game add 1to all rolls you make in game.” And the :tenbux: one says ‘2’. I don't recommend making it free; first because it ruins the joke a bit and secondly because it's bad business sense. Now, what you need to do is have the money be spent to convert to an in-game currency that you can spend on rolls, with the amount of in-game currency being just slightly more than you can spend on any combination of in-game items.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2018 16:56
|
|
|
LatwPIAT posted:Didn't D&D (or was it Pathfinder?) run with card packs for the various classes that gave you a randomized selection of powers? I can't remember if it actually was in the CCG style or not, but it would certainly lend itself to it! I'm late to the party, but in addition to the Gamma World 7E cards, WotC totally attempted the same thing during 4E's lifespan. They were called Fortune Cards and came in random boosters just like their Gamma World counterparts. Now, this was definitely later in the edition's lifecycle and was primarily pushed through the Encounters organized play program, but randomly acquired mechanical boosts existed. And they were No Actions, to boot. Auralsaurus Flex fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Jul 18, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2018 17:03
|
|
|
my Shadowrun experience is that I grasped the basic resolution well enough, but then I got to the magic section and everything just went off the rails... ... which was when I realized that this was largely my reaction to D&D, where everything makes sense and follows naturally from the attack rolls to the saving throws to the skill checks, and then they introduce spellcasting which throws all that out the window.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2018 17:05
|
|
|
kingcom posted:I'd prefer Bourgeoisie in the Guillotine tbh. sssh don't spoil the sequel
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2018 17:08
|
|
|
Splicer posted:I'd play an FFG dice Android RPG. Genesys has like a fifth of a chapter devoted to the Android setting and there have been rumblings for months that they're going to do a proper Android sourcebook for it. In the meantime I'm thinking of running something just using Netrunner cards and the Worlds of Android book for flavor and ideas. e: I wouldn't be surprised if it came out soon, there's a huge Genesys game. . . thing happening at worlds for Netrunner this September. Rockman Reserve fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Jul 18, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2018 17:14
|
|
|
Splicer posted:I'd play an FFG dice Android RPG. The FFG RPG system sucks so I hope this never happens and that we get a good RPG using the Android license, instead. Of course this is FFG, so that's a pipedream.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2018 17:48
|
|
|
Lemon-Lime posted:The FFG RPG system sucks so I hope this never happens and that we get a good RPG using the Android license, instead. Source your quotes.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2018 17:56
|
|
|
The Deleter posted:Source your quotes. EotE is the worst Star Wars game and one of the worst systems in general that I've ever played, with its pointless, un-thematic gear porn, pages and pages of nickel-and-dime talents, rocket tag combat, overpriced custom dice with lovely graphic design that makes them harder to read at a glance than actual dice, and the advantage/disadvantage system is on par with GM INTRUSION for garbage cargo-culted storygame mechanic. Maybe Genesys is less poo poo somehow! I haven't played it, but I sincerely doubt it since it's fundamentally the same core system.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2018 18:53
|
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:my Shadowrun experience is that I grasped the basic resolution well enough, but then I got to the magic section and everything just went off the rails... It's not wrong though. Magic screws up Shadowrun in a whole bunch of ways. By far the biggest problem is the number of things magic can do that can't be countered without magic, and since mages are only 1%(?) of the population, either anything but running against a massive corp becomes nearly trivial or the GM has to explain why whatever random bar or gang you're dealing with had the resources to allow for someone so rare showing up. Lemon-Lime posted:EotE is the worst Star Wars game and one of the worst systems in general that I've ever played, with its pointless, un-thematic gear porn, pages and pages of nickel-and-dime talents, rocket tag combat, overpriced custom dice with lovely graphic design that makes them harder to read at a glance than actual dice, and the advantage/disadvantage system is on par with GM INTRUSION for garbage cargo-culted storygame mechanic. Fair on the rocket tag issue but the advantage/disadvantage system does at least give some mechanical suggestions for what disadvantages could represent, which somewhat stalls off the "your disadvantage ruins your success because I couldn't think of anything else" issue.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2018 19:05
|
|
|
Lemon-Lime posted:its pointless, un-thematic gear porn, pages and pages of nickel-and-dime talents, rocket tag combat Lemon-Lime posted:overpriced custom dice with lovely graphic design that makes them harder to read at a glance than actual dice, and the advantage/disadvantage system is on par with GM INTRUSION for garbage cargo-culted storygame mechanic.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2018 19:06
|
|
|
Gear porn, lethal combat, and relying on stimpacks to keep yourself on your feet are valid criticisms of how FFGs Star Wars games miss the mark but sound like they'd fit right at home in a cyberpunk RPG, so I'm not convinced it's actually a bad fit.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2018 19:14
|
|
|
hyphz posted:the advantage/disadvantage system does at least give some mechanical suggestions for what disadvantages could represent, which somewhat stalls off the "your disadvantage ruins your success because I couldn't think of anything else" issue. It gives some but in my experience not nearly enough. In general the math feels very off for a star wars game. It would be at home in a grittier genre.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2018 19:19
|
|
|
fool_of_sound posted:It gives some but in my experience not nearly enough. In general the math feels very off for a star wars game. It would be at home in a grittier genre. I don't know if I was using a badly programmed dice app, but when the one we used let me run a monte carlo, it skewed towards success with threat when all the dice were equal over 1000 rolls (did 5 greens/purple and 2/3 y/g v r/p). If that's the correct math, that would feel pretty Star Wars where you succeed as things go wrong around you. It was a free webapp, though, so maybe their math has some issues.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2018 19:24
|
|
|
Splicer posted:The babblings of an idiot. I genuinely don't know how you can think the badly-designed custom symbols are easier to parse than actual dice pips/numbers, that the game having six different types of dice is good, or that asking people to buy two £15 packs of custom dice so they have enough to actually make a roll is reasonable. The problem with the advantage/disadvantage system is that the games need to give a bunch of examples for what kind of effects correspond to 1/2/3 advantage or disadvantage for each skill as a basis for the GM to come up with their own effects. They don't do this; instead they provide a couple of generic examples that honestly don't work a lot of the time, and then do the equivalent of the  emote and leave the entire mechanic completely half-baked.
Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Jul 18, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2018 19:25
|
|
|
thelazyblank posted:I don't know if I was using a badly programmed dice app, but when the one we used let me run a monte carlo, it skewed towards success with threat when all the dice were equal over 1000 rolls (did 5 greens/purple and 2/3 y/g v r/p). If that's the correct math, that would feel pretty Star Wars where you succeed as things go wrong around you. That's possibly true, but also not really what I meant. I meant more that combat and skill maths are skewed in a low-powered, gritty way that doesn't serve the space opera genre.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2018 19:29
|
|
|
fool_of_sound posted:That's possibly true, but also not really what I meant. I meant more that combat and skill maths are skewed in a low-powered, gritty way that doesn't serve the space opera genre. Once again, what's bad for a fantastic soap opera is great for a cyberpunk RPG.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2018 19:36
|
|
|
It's fine, we all know the best Star Wars game is 4e D&D where you cross off "bow" and write "gun"
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2018 19:37
|
|
|
The best Star Wars game is Fate Accelerated. The only thing you might need to house rule is the name of the Forceful approach if your players are the sort that would make a million tiresome puns about it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2018 19:42
|
|
|
This weekend I'll most likely be wrapping up a 6 month campaign of Scum and Villainy using the Star Wars setting. All told it worked really well and only needed minimal modification to work.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2018 19:47
|
|
|
The best was D20.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2018 19:48
|
|
|
fool_of_sound posted:That's possibly true, but also not really what I meant. I meant more that combat and skill maths are skewed in a low-powered, gritty way that doesn't serve the space opera genre. This makes sense given that the origin of the Genesys system was FFG's Warhammer Fantasy 3E and they largely ported it over without too many modifications for Star Wars. Moriatti posted:It's fine, we all know the best Star Wars game is 4e D&D where you cross off "bow" and write "gun" As much of a fan as I am of 4E and grid-based tactical combat in general, Star Wars is one of those settings where I wouldn't really demand it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2018 19:50
|
|
|
Tuxedo Catfish posted:X-Com is also distinct from D&D 4E is that one person is controlling all the units. This makes contingency-based gameplay more appealing / less negative because even if one of your characters misses, you still have a lot of agency left. If a D&D player has to spend his whole turn just covering the possibility that another character's action will whiff, that's much worse, because now they've got almost no agency. food court bailiff posted:I love the idea of cyberpunk games, I love the aesthetic, I think the oppressive themes make a fun place to play and explore when interspersed with oodles of cool technology or weird magic trolls or whatever. The problem I do have is that it's a genre that relies almost 100% on GM fiat to play the way its usually presented. Nobody is doing high-risk raids on corporate offices now, today, because cameras and security and firewalls exist. In a setting where megacorps have usurped the government and you can link your brain directly to a remote camera feed, is that security supposed to get worse? I do like that some later editions of Shadowrun try to handwave this away, like there's just so much crime and the corps own so much property that there's no way for them to track it all, but that's really bullshit. Cameras and alarms are really cheap. On a story level...well. In a way, many cyberpunk stories (and cyberpunk RPGs in particular) are hopeful in that they imagine a future where capitalism's compulsive overproduction creates unintended side-effects that can be used against it, or at least to survive. The tech market means that teenage whiz-kids can infiltrate corporate security states. The war industry means that there are a bunch of surplus cyborg soldiers hanging around. Lots of security tech is available and cheap, but so are the countermeasures. However much capital they've accumulated, the megacorporations can't afford to lock down every plant and office, not least because it conflicts with the capitalist drive to increase productivity and decrease labour. (Also, Gibson's idea of cyberspace is a metaphor for an anarcho-libertarian future. He didn't know or care much about actual technology, and in that light, perhaps it's best not to worry about it beyond very basic questions of plausibility.) Shadowrun, in particular, has been bad and inconsistent about this. Setting aside everything to do with magic--which is huge for all the reasons already mentioned--very different things are implied by the art, the writing, and the security equipment on offer. In my experience this produced some nastiness in the fanbase, with a lot of people clearly wanting to run Dominion Tank Police while others sneer that you're a dumb little baby if you're not running a low-key heist thriller.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2018 20:03
|
|
|
Kai Tave posted:Gear porn, lethal combat, and relying on stimpacks to keep yourself on your feet are valid criticisms of how FFGs Star Wars games miss the mark but sound like they'd fit right at home in a cyberpunk RPG, so I'm not convinced it's actually a bad fit. Yeah, it's a reason I'm actually kinda excited for a possible Android expac.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2018 20:05
|
|
|
Star Wars RPGs have always been about gear porn. Including lightfoils for dueling in D6
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2018 20:10
|
|
|
alg posted:Star Wars RPGs have always been about gear porn. Including lightfoils for dueling in D6
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2018 20:11
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/Ettin64/status/1019522098987847680
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2018 20:14
|
|
|
dwarf74 posted:The RPGs have been, but the movies have not been. There's some really fricking cool gear even in a New Hope. Luke's huge rifle owns Also the helicopter lightsabers from Rebels 
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2018 20:17
|
|
|
Halloween Jack posted:The tech market means that teenage whiz-kids can infiltrate corporate security states. That's another massive jar, though. Right now, it's possible a teen whiz-kid could hack Microsoft, but it woudn't be on demand - it would be a one-off opportunistic event which would close shortly afterwards. And this also ends up assuming that no innovations in security have been made in the time between now and cyberwhenever, or that it's gotten worse. Honestly, I'd be tempted in most cyberpunk games to say that social engineering is the only hacking left.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2018 20:17
|
|
|
dwarf74 posted:The RPGs have been, but the movies have not been. But the videogames and books had a shitload of weapons and they were what kept the franchise alive during the 90s when the RPGs were written.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2018 20:18
|
|
|
Seems like I'm the Mod now.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2018 20:19
|
|
|
Star Wars movies and shows are full of cool-looking toys but there are probably better ways to handle that than a Big Ever-Expanding List Of Gear that you have to buy with tracked income, and my own limited experience with the FFG Star Wars games is that your starting income doesn't even really let you buy the sorts of things that players might go "oh hey that's cool" right off the bat anyway.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2018 20:24
|
|
|
Plutonis posted:Seems like I'm the Mod now. The worst timeline.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2018 20:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 14:10 |
|
|
Kai Tave posted:Star Wars movies and shows are full of cool-looking toys but there are probably better ways to handle that than a Big Ever-Expanding List Of Gear that you have to buy with tracked income, and my own limited experience with the FFG Star Wars games is that your starting income doesn't even really let you buy the sorts of things that players might go "oh hey that's cool" right off the bat anyway. And there's a lot of fiddling around with "don't let the players loot weapons from Stormtroopers and sell them, they're imperial weapons and others would not want to use them". Like seriously? What insurgency isn't grateful for captured enemy weapons, especially when ammo is not an issue?
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2018 20:31
|
|