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We're talking about the same Tesla that has said repeatedly that superchargers will never be a profit center, right? The same Tesla who has as it's mission statement to encourage competitors? Tesla will do just fine if they need to convert to a non-proprietary standard, and they'll do it with a smile.
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Jul 19, 2018 05:31
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You can charge practically anywhere in America with a Tesla (CHAdeMO adapter is included with the car) - most L3 charging stations outside of the Tesla network usually have CHAdeMO & CCS Combo so it's pretty moot - but yes standardization is way overdue. With that said, I think Tesla gets the charging infrastructure right. It's much cheaper to charge on the Tesla network relative to other L3 networks in Canada, it's way faster (120 kWh on Tesla vs 50 kWh on most other L3s) and it's simply more convenient to use - the placement is really good on the Trans-Canada highway. Unfortunately with the other networks you're stuck creating a bunch of accounts and loading credits which just makes it a bit of a hassle. The supercharger network integration with the car also just makes it great to use - before arriving you can know how many stalls exist / are in use, what the maximum power capacity is, how long you need to charge before your next leg and what the nearby places to eat/sleep/dine are. I'd just like to see industry adopt one charging port standard (preferably with vehicle to grid) and for other manufacturers to integrate charging networks / route planning into their infotainment like Tesla does. I think the idea of using an electric car as a giant battery backup for a house during an outage is pretty cool.
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Jul 19, 2018 05:35
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The need for a huge amount of national chargers is not urgent yet. Most drivers can charge at home, and frequently can start charging at work. In addition there are a ton of two car households in the US alone to satisfy near term demand of electric vehicles while the rest of the infrastructure catches up. I don’t get why so many posters feel like all the problems have to be solved in the next year when in fact there’s lots of time to expand while having plenty of use cases that are satisfied today.
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Jul 19, 2018 05:37
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Qwijib0 posted:If there's ever a critical mass of CCS chargers, I assume Tesla will probably just do in the US with CCS what they do in europe with Mennekes-- just put both ports on the cars and offer an adapter to existing owners. New Teslas currently come with a J1772 adapter already to be able to use most of the current public infrastructure. Like how Tesla sells CCS adaptors for their Supercharger network? Tesla kind of bet the farm on loving over other electric car makers on access to chargers, why do the manufacturers developing the CCS network want to allow Tesla on their network?
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Jul 19, 2018 05:40
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Charger exclusivity in general is super dumb and bad for EV adoption. Fast charging needs to be as simple as possible, and if you see a fast charger your EV should be able to charge from it. If exclusive use of chargers by one brand of cars is the result of manufacturers funding charging network buildout, manufacturers should not be building chargers. Exclusive infrastructure is the dumbest poo poo, but apparently the way the US is going (see net neutrality). I'm glad I don't live in your cyberpunk dystopia.
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Jul 19, 2018 06:04
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pun pundit posted:Exclusive infrastructure is the dumbest poo poo, but apparently the way the US is going (see net neutrality). I'm glad I don't live in your cyberpunk dystopia.
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Jul 19, 2018 06:11
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Three Olives posted:Like how Tesla sells CCS adaptors for their Supercharger network? Tesla kind of bet the farm on loving over other electric car makers on access to chargers, why do the manufacturers developing the CCS network want to allow Tesla on their network? Because they like money? That's why most companies let people give them money in exchange for goods and services? Because the more people that can give you money the more money they can make? That's usually a good reason.
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Jul 19, 2018 06:13
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:tesla has the best charging infrastructure by far Exactly my point. Tesla's charging system has serious challenges to scale to replace even 20% of the current fossil-fuel consumer car fleet. Not only in building by the company itself, but in financing the power grid and generation upgrades that will be necessary to make it practical outside of major metros.
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Jul 19, 2018 09:38
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Three Olives posted:Like how Tesla sells CCS adaptors for their Supercharger network? Tesla kind of bet the farm on loving over other electric car makers on access to chargers, why do the manufacturers developing the CCS network want to allow Tesla on their network? Soooooo..... Wasnt Tesla the one who free licenced their charging patents? Some loving over that is. Yeaaaah they really bet the farm on that one. Three Olives wrong again.
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Jul 19, 2018 09:40
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Are you people living on the same planet as I am? Where have you found these alien ideas? Are they induced by powerful hallucinogens or merely sublime artistic creativity? In the market right now, a consumer will rightly think that Tesla has an advantage over other EVs with that charging network. That is obviously just a passing condition and not a long term strategy, as anyone can just build other chargers. The supercharger network was invented to help sell Teslas over ICE cars, not other EVs. Experience with the Roadster clearly showed that fast charging on the road was as important as absolute range. There is no CCS adapter, only CHAdeMO. CCS didn't exist in the wild when the supercharger network was rolled out. Exclusivity is not something Tesla has bet anything on. I think they actually would be happier if they didn't have to bother with the chargers at all, if it was just public infrastructure that you could take for granted and not a barrier to EV adoption.
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Jul 19, 2018 13:07
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Three Olives posted:There are data, patents and copyrights involved, it's not just a plug. What makes you think VW wants Tesla using their chargers? Tesla is part of the board https://www.charinev.org/members/. It’s not just VW making these things. what the gently caress are you rambling about?
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Jul 19, 2018 13:45
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spandexcajun posted:Tesla invented a DC supercharging standard when none existed. I hate to keep making Apple analogies, but having a proprietary charger never hurt the Iphone / Ipad / macbook :itsaphoneanalogie: One is $20 (or less for a knockoff). The other is not.
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Jul 19, 2018 15:15
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Three olives, how do you manage to be so wrong? Brb, going to charge my car. I wanted to add to this post, Tesla has amusements and food coming to the superchargers. Tesla drivers are a wealthy (for now) captive market when charging, stores gain 30% + in revenue from being positioned next to one. Tesla just bought prime property in Santa Monica for a drive in theater, restaurant supercharger. Wake me up when Nissan does that. The Sicilian fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Jul 19, 2018 |
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Jul 19, 2018 16:17
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The Sicilian posted:stores gain 30% + in revenue from being positioned next to one That’s amazing. Link me up? I’m not sure that drive-in theatres for charging stops that are usually what, 45 mins, makes a lot of sense though. I guess it depends on what they show.
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Jul 19, 2018 16:58
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Subjunctive posted:That’s amazing. Link me up? That's actually kind of clever depending on how involved they get-- with control over the whole ecosystem, they might be able to use wifi to send surround to your car, and allow in-vehicle food ordering from the touchscreen. You're there for the movie, the charging is secondary.
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Jul 19, 2018 17:09
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Can someone please point me out to the magical Supercharger-to-CCS Adapter, because that would make me buy a Volt loving pronto. Cheap-poo poo HVDC garbage exists outside of the major city centers in the South and I have no desire to drive a 200-mile EV 120 miles in a single direction to find that the charger poo poo the bed. Superchargers work incredibly well from what I’ve heard however. Also as far as I know Model S units do not come with a CHAdeMO-to-Tesla Adapter in the North American markets, only Japan. You have to buy it separately here for a ridiculous cost but it’s hardly worth it when superchargers are easily found around the US.
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Jul 19, 2018 17:16
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Ripoff posted:Also as far as I know Model S units do not come with a CHAdeMO-to-Tesla Adapter in the North American markets, only Japan. You have to buy it separately here for a ridiculous cost but it’s hardly worth it when superchargers are easily found around the US. That's correct about the adapter. I'm in Canada, and there are a fair number of places (like the capital city!) where there are a number of CHAdeMO and CCS chargers but no Supercharger. I got them to throw in the adapter when I bought my S, and I've used it a few times to charge at a lunch destination during a weekend trip instead of an SC stop on the way back (or sipping from a J1772 somewhere like a peasant).
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Jul 19, 2018 17:29
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The Sicilian posted:I wanted to add to this post, Tesla has amusements and food coming to the superchargers. C'mon Elon, figure this poo poo out. Build a Starbucks in that runs from 5-midnight and you'll be printing money.
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Jul 19, 2018 17:33
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FilthyImp posted:Tesla needs to add a retrogame lounge area to their charger waiting rooms. Maybe stick an old Third Strike or Puzzle Bobble upright in the corner. The Starbucks is an alien dreadnought Starbucks that runs 24/7 and still sells less coffee than a regular houred Starbucks. Also a small amount of workers are burned by superheated steam from Elon's revolutionary new espresso machine. Ripoff posted:Can someone please point me out to the magical Supercharger-to-CCS Adapter, because that would make me buy a Volt loving pronto. Cheap-poo poo HVDC garbage exists outside of the major city centers in the South and I have no desire to drive a 200-mile EV 120 miles in a single direction to find that the charger poo poo the bed. Superchargers work incredibly well from what I’ve heard however. Superchargers have to communicate with the Tesla to initiate charging, this will never work. The Sicilian fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Jul 19, 2018 |
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Jul 19, 2018 19:38
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I know that the Tesla Tent videos I posted a few weeks ago were met with  but uhhhhhhhhh with the help of some other spergs he might have just found the thousands of missing 'in transit' TM3s that disappeared after last month's push:@IspyTsla is the guy who's been taking video at Tesla's tent factory. The one where, according to Musk and last month's NYT puff piece, a ton of cars get made in a giant tent to keep things rolling. Maybe you think the videos mean nothing, but he's there. The videos are real. He's been doing it for months. Last month's giant push to put out a huge number of Model 3s ended with almost 5000 'factory gated' in the last week. There have been a ton of photos taken of TM3s at Tesla service centers with tags saying this. Over the course of the month, somewhere around 12k cars were 'gated' and never arrived to customers, service centers, or anywhere else. A total of 29k cars produced but never sold according to the SEC. https://twitter.com/Andreas_Hopf/status/1019818032871469056?s=19 https://twitter.com/TeslaCharts/status/1019734214391017474?s=19 Spergs have been checking service centers, looking for new production to account for the missing cars or cars paid for but delayed weeks for no good reason. https://twitter.com/ContrarianShort/status/1019391551229788160?s=19 https://twitter.com/BosInvestor/status/1019301614321061891?s=19 https://twitter.com/Benshooter/status/1019789148087992320?s=19 Fast forward to yesterday. People are trying to find a secluded location near the Tesla factory that could hide a ton of unfinished cars reported as assembled/sold. Someone finds a perfect spot nearby: https://twitter.com/mydoghasagun/status/1019793319004495873?s=19 LNR Auto Transport The location is perfect, it's an area that basically does nothing, and the ad even shows a bunch of Teslas. So here's @IspyTsla again, checking out the tip and taking videos of semis dropping off a sea of new-looking Teslas and driving away empty: https://twitter.com/ValueDissenter/status/1020018426973048832?s=19 https://twitter.com/ValueDissenter/status/1020021601356546048?s=19 https://twitter.com/IspyTsla/status/1020023819396820992?s=19 https://twitter.com/IspyTsla/status/1020024882166300672?s=19 I'm phoneposting but um holy poo poo, it looks like the best sperg sleuthing ever. Tesla fans, check the timeline. I can't think of an explanation that's not 'immediate insolvency'.
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Jul 19, 2018 20:22
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Is it possible this is just part of the delaying tactic to keep the federal tax incentive?
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Jul 19, 2018 20:30
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Isn't the explanation just that they were holding back delivery of a bunch of cars to game the tax rebate thing? Though I suppose that doesn't explain why these cars are all still sitting in that lot 2+ weeks into the quarter...
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Jul 19, 2018 20:38
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Subjunctive posted:That’s amazing. Link me up? 45 minute documentaries about noted philanthropist and child saver Elon Musk, who definitely founded Tesla and wasn’t just the dude who showed up with Series A funding, and who definitely really started Tesla to solve climate change which is why he donates heavily to politicians who are climate denialists as opposed to funding their rivals who actually want to solve the problem. Or something.
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Jul 19, 2018 20:46
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Is it possible this is just part of the delaying tactic to keep the federal tax incentive? The rebate is already done. The IRS only counts cars “delivered”, and Tesla says its done that. So if the lemon theory is right, these are the lemons.
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Jul 19, 2018 20:48
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Maybe Space-X "bought" 10000 teslas.
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Jul 19, 2018 20:55
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'Lemons' is the only conclusion I can come to. The videos are real, the cars are real, the pieces have been there for weeks. My best guess is that Tesla slammed out 'factory gated' units as fast as possible to post a big number for their deadline last month, and these cars are unfinished and/or failed QC. They could stash the cars here until they are repaired/finished, with no reporting (until now) or timetables to keep.
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Jul 19, 2018 20:58
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drgitlin posted:The rebate is already done. The IRS only counts cars “delivered”, and Tesla says its done that. So if the lemon theory is right, these are the lemons. Well, to be fair, I think it's only a lemon if it's sold. These are presumably just 29,000 "oops we hosed this one up too bad to sell, we'll stick it in a lot and plan to fix it later" cars, right? e: also what does "factory gated" mean, exactly? Like it hasn't officially passed the gate (i.e. left the factory) yet?
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Jul 19, 2018 21:00
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No one knows. Tesla started using the term last month for their deadline push. The immediate conclusion was that they weren't start-to-finish builds, because why would you use weasel words? So they were half-built the month before and dragged across the finish line, or they were half-finished and stashed in the graveyard?
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Jul 19, 2018 21:20
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Sagebrush posted:e: also what does "factory gated" mean, exactly? Like it hasn't officially passed the gate (i.e. left the factory) yet? Factory gated are vehicles built by the plant but then sent to an offsite storage yard instead of off to dealers. For most other manufacturers, they'll gate a big batch at the start and end of a model year or new/revised model. The vehicles are then checked over with a fine toothed comb for QA issues so the OEM can go back to the assembly line and fix potential problems (or, at the end of a model year, compare notes to the start to ensure quality remained level throughout the production year). These units can sit for quite some time depending on the issues found, availability of parts, available manpower to rework vehicles, and how busy the logistics (truckers, lot workers, etc) are. If the issues are large enough/numerous, vehicles can sit for months before being released (and then they have to be transported to the dealer). Unless Telsa is doing this specifically to grease numbers (possible), it is an industry standard practice. However, this is a PR storm of Telsa's own making by overpromsing production and providing very little updates. Now people are desperate for any information on their vehicle orders and this is exactly what you get. Thwomp fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Jul 19, 2018 |
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Jul 19, 2018 21:51
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Thwomp posted:Factory gated are vehicles built by the plant but then sent to an offsite storage yard instead of off to dealers. But isn’t Tesla manufacturing to spec? Are they just making a bunch of some likely (white) configurations and hoping? (And storing them in the California sun, of course.)
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Jul 19, 2018 22:06
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I hate to break it to everyone but that lot full of cars looks mostly like export prep or delivery prep.
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Jul 19, 2018 22:31
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Subjunctive posted:But isn’t Tesla manufacturing to spec? Are they just making a bunch of some likely (white) configurations and hoping? I don’t think they’ve ever made that portion of their chain public. From what I gather, my opinion is that ya, they’re using past order data to manufacture what they THINK will be ordered, and then adjusting going forward as configuration inventory changes.
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Jul 19, 2018 23:07
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I hate to break it to everyone but that lot full of cars looks mostly like export prep or delivery prep. Exactly. There are literally tens of thousands of cars in open lots stored exactly like this by other manufacturers. It would be dead easy for me to go to Minto and take out of context pictures of literally thousands of Toyotas just.... there. Do people really think cars just go from the factory to showroom? No, they get built and held in huge lots before delivery / showroom prep.
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Jul 19, 2018 23:48
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FistEnergy posted:I know that the Tesla Tent videos I posted a few weeks ago were met with 
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Jul 19, 2018 23:59
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:Exactly. There are literally tens of thousands of cars in open lots stored exactly like this by other manufacturers. It would be dead easy for me to go to Minto and take out of context pictures of literally thousands of Toyotas just.... there. Like in theory Tesla is building on demand since they don't really have to have dealer inventory so I get why to some people this is shocking, but in practice that is very hard to do. But if the numbers are right at 29k, that's six weeks of production in transit which sounds high for a company that is primarily fulfilling domestic demand in the US.
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Jul 20, 2018 00:24
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I hate to break it to everyone but that lot full of cars looks mostly like export prep or delivery prep. That lot is also just across the street from a "431,000 square foot facility that was once utilized by Daimler-Chrysler as a distribution center." that Tesla has owned since 2014 and turned into a secondary manufacturing facility. It's also on a UP rail spur. It's also been a model 3 storage lot since at least the end of 2017 https://insideevs.com/motherload-tesla-model-3-spotted/ Qwijib0 fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Jul 20, 2018 |
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Jul 20, 2018 00:25
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Qwijib0 posted:That lot is also just across the street from a "431,000 square foot facility that was once utilized by Daimler-Chrysler as a distribution center." that Tesla has owned since 2014 and turned into a secondary manufacturing facility. It's also on a UP rail spur. tesla breaks people's brains it's ridiculous
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Jul 20, 2018 00:29
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Storage to maximize the number of cars to receive the tax credit?
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Jul 20, 2018 00:46
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Deathreaper posted:Storage to maximize the number of cars to receive the tax credit? I think that was covered, and the answer was “no”.
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Jul 20, 2018 00:53
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Where did we end up on the Three Olives CCS thing?
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Jul 20, 2018 00:54
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