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It plays fine without it and even rewards you for doing so. It's definitely more difficult but that's to be expected when you remove the safety net.
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Jul 18, 2018 23:26
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Metal Gear Solid V gives you many tools to create your own difficulty level. Turn off markers, turn off danger sensing, etc if you think it’s too easy.
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Jul 18, 2018 23:30
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Even with all that stuff, it's too easy. With the standard assault rifle, I can clear every single base without worrying about ammunition. I can loot every body for their guns if I run out of ammo and just switch like that. Even if by some miracle I am without ammo, I can just call it in, along with artillery and airstrikes. All this is part of the default toolset, even with all these "tools" configured to create the highest difficulty level. Using Infinite Heaven to apply Subsistence rules to every mission only slightly increases the difficulty, and challenge in missions vs tanks and armour evaporates when you get the ability to fulton them - something that is encouraged because that means you can call in or deploy with tanks. Health regeneration was a mistake, and they should've decreased the durability of suppressors from the standard set by MGS3, not increased them.
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Jul 18, 2018 23:41
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punk rebel ecks posted:But the game is designed around it. Similar to Witch Time in Bayonetta 2. Nah not really. You just turn it off, it’s fine. The game is designed around Fultoning. You want to add difficulty, you need guards with dynamic patrol patterns, they notice when someone is missing, and the whole base goes on alert automatically after a set amount of time in each mission as an assumption they notice someone has infiltrated. Look Sir Droids fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Jul 18, 2018 |
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Jul 18, 2018 23:51
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I always thought the challenge was in ghosting it, not just running to the finish line? Maybe it's also because I wore the flimsy starting sneaking suit too but I would still die in a few hits if more than one guy was around during a guard alert, I never did much with the fat riot suit or regular guns because I found straight combat to be pretty boring in comparison to stealth 
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Jul 18, 2018 23:54
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Look Sir Droids posted:You want to add difficulty, you need guards with dynamic patrol patterns, they notice when someone is missing, and the whole base goes on alert automatically after a set amount of time in each mission as an assumption they notice someone has infiltrated. That'd help. A lot. There's no reason not to gun down low skilled enemy troops and fulton high skilled ones, or even just run straight at enemy patrols, punch them and fulton them, repeat until done because stealth will achieve the same thing (or less) and take more time. Wolfsheim posted:I always thought the challenge was in ghosting it, not just running to the finish line? Maybe it's also because I wore the flimsy starting sneaking suit too but I would still die in a few hits if more than one guy was around during a guard alert, I never did much with the fat riot suit or regular guns because I found straight combat to be pretty boring in comparison to stealth Straight combat is boring but quick. Picking everyone off (or even advancing slowly while killing folks) is at least a bit of a fun puzzle with the optimal order of killing but has too little consequence. Ghosting puts you right in the hornets nest for when you do make a mistake, but then when you make a mistake you fall into straight combat which is easy, boring and quick. The only weapon to have actually killed me in my whole time playing MGSV were guys with shotguns - and that's either a boring instant death or being stun-locked and THEN killed. There's no pursuit worth mentioning as you can run away at high speed and the enemy can't catch up to you, there's no fear of encirclement or escape route being closed off, and there's no resource scarcity that might give you an issue. C2W (Destroy the AA) or the first Africa mission on Subsistence rules are probably the best standard missions in the game, because you have necessary gear you have to find, or you have to go loud in the middle of heavy fortifications with very limited escape avenues and high fields of fire, particularly on C2W.
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Jul 19, 2018 00:19
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I can understand wanting to optimize how you play in an RPG but in a systemic game like MGSV it just seems weird. A common criticism is that the game gives you tons of tools that you don't "need," but just loving around with the tools and systems is, you know, fun. Limiting yourself to a single weapons loadout or playstyle in the name of efficiency just seems like the wrong way to go unless you're wired in such a way that you have to do that.
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Jul 19, 2018 00:31
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The game doesn’t feel like it’s designed around reflex mode. Reflex feels more like a late addition they added because they were afraid most people would find the game too hard.
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Jul 19, 2018 00:31
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Coolness Averted posted:aren't you literally describing reflex mode? lol god dammit. I meant to post that in the ghost recon wildlands thread. Must’ve had too many tabs open. Sorry, thread. But yeah if GRW had that feature, I think it would come real close to beating MGSV as the better stealth game. Metal Gears 5’s AI is still more fun to gently caress with and the game has a lot of awesome toys, but at least in GRW you’re not stuck in one of the two the most boring biomes ever for the whole game, nor are you penalized for going lethal. Oh, and free ammo crates are everywhere, open combat is actually quite risky and challenging, you have infinite access to vehicles with just a small cooldown timer, and you always have access to synced headshots. But, no reflex mode. Also there’s plenty of Ubisoft jank in there too, where MGS5’s gameplay is tight as a drum and polished to a mirror sheen. Will somebody please just hurry up and make the perfect stealth game that is all things to all people already? Gah. GreatGreen fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Jul 19, 2018 |
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Jul 19, 2018 00:37
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MeatwadIsGod posted:I can understand wanting to optimize how you play in an RPG but in a systemic game like MGSV it just seems weird. A common criticism is that the game gives you tons of tools that you don't "need," but just loving around with the tools and systems is, you know, fun. Limiting yourself to a single weapons loadout or playstyle in the name of efficiency just seems like the wrong way to go unless you're wired in such a way that you have to do that. See, I'm the opposite. An RPG is not something that I optimise. But in a systemic game, one that gives that variety of tools, I'll use the tools that best get me to success with ease - heck, just shaming and negatively reinforcing the player for killing folks through negative ratings or increased costs. I didn't even get the demon horn up. My opinion is a game like this should force you to get out of that limited mindset through varied gameplay, not allow it. But goddamn, MGSV really is something special if it can keep folks arguing for the past three years, and that people who legitimately dislike the game as a whole can still dip in and play it from time to time and did put in that 80 hours to finish it, and it's a genuinely interesting design issue. tweet my meat posted:The difficulty doesnt really come from limited resources, you have your own army, supplies aren't an issue. It comes from using as few resources as possible. That's the problem. And the air support isn't necessary, but it's always there. The stealth pacifism is fairly equal to the high speed route, and ghosting is actively harmful to you because you need to be fultoning folks. Not even counting the madness that is the Buddy system and how broken they all are, yes, even the horse. There's a reason the difficulty curve of the MGS games always relied on the line at the start - "Weapons and equipment OSP", in 1, 2 and 3. HerpicleOmnicron5 fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Jul 19, 2018 |
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Jul 19, 2018 00:41
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The difficulty doesnt really come from limited resources, you have your own army, supplies aren't an issue. It comes from using as few resources as possible. Yes, even on subsistence you can just steal a gun and shoot everyone or call in airstrikes and have a snack while the game beats it for you, but you're actively choosing for it to be easy. There's a reason why air support is penalized and stealthy pacifism is rewarded. Do it the easy way and you get the easy reward. Do it the hard way and your score will reflect that.
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Jul 19, 2018 00:41
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MGSV falls under the bracket of "noble failure", because its got so much good going for it but you can so clearly tell that it needed more time in the oven.
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Jul 19, 2018 00:54
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My world opened up when I realized that nothing bad actually happened when I stopped hoovering up soldiers and gear with the fulton. I get more than enough from the deployment missions, the challenge rewards, and volunteers. You might need to grind a bit for those last few levels, but I haven't really hit any bottlenecks and I only ever extract once in a blue moon for development unlock skills or objectives, and even then I'll often just lug them to the chopper. Stop fultoning today.
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Jul 19, 2018 01:01
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You really should get no more than 3-5 Fultons per deployment. But that would make the motherbase Pokémon subgame an even bigger pain.
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Jul 19, 2018 01:05
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:Even with all that stuff, it's too easy. As I said before, you have the tools you need to make things more difficult for yourself if you need a challenge. Apply your own self-restraint if settings aren't enough. Since it forces you to deploy with at least one gun, go in with the worst gun and don't use it. Don't call in any resupplies. Don't call in airstrikes. Don't bring a buddy. Don't be seen, etc etc. Fight tanks on horseback using nothing but grenades.
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Jul 19, 2018 01:17
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"This game is fun and starts to provide a proper challenge the second you stop engaging with its mechanics"
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Jul 19, 2018 01:18
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Alternatively, the game comes with training wheels for casual gamers that you can take off if you want more difficulty
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Jul 19, 2018 01:21
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tweet my meat posted:My world opened up when I realized that nothing bad actually happened when I stopped hoovering up soldiers and gear with the fulton. I get more than enough from the deployment missions, the challenge rewards, and volunteers. Yeah, this self-imposed restriction kinda owns and is a big reason I like GZ more than TPP. A perfect run of fultoning all prisoners and all targets without being spotted required mapping out routes to the LZ was extremely my jam, whereas in TPP you can throw a smoke bomb and knock out/fulton a dozen guys and a tank before it even runs out. Once the game goes from a small team comprised of old Cuba POWs, a handful of Russian soldiers and a token lady to hundreds of indistinguishable randos it becomes real tedious to even look at, which may be why I've never finished TPP 
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Jul 19, 2018 01:23
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When I replayed it recently I almost never fultoned and if there was a soldier or POW I wanted I always got them out via chopper since it makes the stealth flow a lot better than relying on fulton. I can definitely see the argument that forcing the player to engage with the tools on offer rather than making it optional would have been better design, though.
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Jul 19, 2018 01:26
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Not challenging doesn't necessarily mean not fun as loving poo poo. If you want to use all your tools, go for creative and cinematic over conservative and pacifist. I like breaking down a level and finding the coolest or most stupid way to do it, then trying to use that method with no mistakes so i can record it for posterity.
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Jul 19, 2018 01:31
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Steve Yun posted:Alternatively, the game comes with training wheels for casual gamers that you can take off if you want more difficulty Training wheels include literally any firearm AND your fists. Watergun only.
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Jul 19, 2018 01:48
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Banana holdup challenges, ghost photography, and dinosaur bosses like in peace walker would have easily solved the difficulty issues as well as most other issues, its a shame they cut kojima off before he could implement them. Also why isn't the lethal Wu a poison dart gun instead of a 9mm conversion?
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Jul 19, 2018 02:04
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tweet my meat posted:Banana holdup challenges, ghost photography, and dinosaur bosses like in peace walker would have easily solved the difficulty issues as well as most other issues, its a shame they cut kojima off before he could implement them. Perfect stealth at the very least. And Date with Ocelot. Also Codetalker. I believe that’s what all the copulation dialog was intended for tbh.
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Jul 19, 2018 02:17
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The difficulty of the enemies is determined by a hidden revenge meter, because one of the smaller points of the game are the enemy starts picking up on Snake tranqing every enemy, and they start issuing helmets because of it, as an example. Trouble is, by the time you see it at it's maximum, you've already finished the game.
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Jul 19, 2018 02:49
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I like that system because it lets you customize the guards to your personal sneaking preferences with the deployment missions.
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Jul 19, 2018 04:37
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tweet my meat posted:I like that system because it lets you customize the guards to your personal sneaking preferences with the deployment missions. Yeah and how you deal with that also feeds into the sorta meta narrative thing Kojima was clever about. Yeah you CAN murder everyone or constantly gently caress up, then feed a bunch of soldiers that follow you (complete with randomly generated faces) into the meat grinder to downgrade enemy defenses. You'll even get to hear the poor shmucks youre about to murder complain about top brass supplying them with the stuff only for it to get stolen and their buddies on guard duty getting killed. Kinda like the nuke thing. There's almost no mechanical advantage to building nukes and they make you a big target. One of the first tapes you get about PFs with nukes even includes snake talking about that being a mistake.
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Jul 19, 2018 05:04
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tweet my meat posted:I like that system because it lets you customize the guards to your personal sneaking preferences with the deployment missions. But the trouble with this system is you have no idea when the results of said missions will show themselves in game, nor how long they will last. Seems like the later ones take 30-45 minutes to complete, or right around 80-90% of the way through a play session.
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Jul 19, 2018 06:02
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I've never finished mgs5 cause I can't do that loving mission where you have to beat the teleporting guys who throw rocks at you. people who spend hours getting good at a game then complain its too easy universally have autism. I'm a medical doctor
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Jul 20, 2018 02:33
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Gay Horney posted:I've never finished mgs5 cause I can't do that loving mission where you have to beat the teleporting guys who throw rocks at you. people who spend hours getting good at a game then complain its too easy universally have autism. I'm a medical doctor Yeah some of the missions with skull unit troops are incredibly poorly designed. A bunch of elements and design choices of the game are at their worst in that one. The cutscene that triggers when you get close enough to the truck, the fact the truck is made of cardboard The way so many of the game's slow rear end animations lock you into things, (starting the truck, hell even the CQC counters to their melee which hits them for massive damage can get you killed) The wonky physics engine sometimes sending you into locked in donuts if they hit you at the right time (or are they psychic and ragdolling the truck?  ) The way they can outrun and teleport around vehicles and so on all combines for something not fun. Some of the other missions with them are fine though, like the honeybee mission seems to have the right pacing and fees frantic, same with the early Kaz rescue. It's the only mission I can recall that felt like they unintentionally locked you into only using one solution with the tricks and gear you're supposed to have by then. They can be trivially easy if you can get on high ground or a hill and toss down a decoy, run up close enough to trigger the animation, then lure them back to the decoy they'll wail on it and you can either extract the truck or fight them far away from it. You can also blow them away in a firefight with upgraded gear. But once again far away from the truck made out of cardboard soaked in gasoline.
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Jul 20, 2018 02:47
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I just bought MGSV and I'm starting to warm up to it. Because even though I'm really bad at this game, I can summon a helicopter at any point to blow everyone away. To wit, I finished an early mission by sending the helicopter to cause a distraction, then exfiled a prisoner under the cover of a sandstorm. SardonicTyrant fucked around with this message at 03:00 on Jul 20, 2018 |
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Jul 20, 2018 02:56
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I don't think it's a convoy mission. I think it starts with code talker next to a crashed helicopter and you have to kill some skulls. I tried spawning in with a tank, rockets, and the metal gear walker and they just oxidized the tank and I ran out of rockets n poo poo.
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Jul 20, 2018 03:02
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Distractions that kill everyone they're distracting are pretty good. Single explosions are also pretty good distractions if you want something a little harder, but still effective at giving you some openings. I like using c4 for that since you can trigger it from anywhere.
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Jul 20, 2018 03:08
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Yeah, the convoy can be done stealthily, it just takes way too long to lure them away and fulton the truck without getting caught (tranqing the driver before it ever leaves the airport helps since you can kite them around the office buildings nearby). The one where you crash at the airport is the only time you have to fight them, though I think killing just one counts to finish the mission. iirc the trick is to use a high-powered sniper rifle and hide on the airport roof (and have Quiet do the same) since they seem to dodge explosives a bit. It would've been interesting to encounter skulls outside of like four missions, maybe guarding bases or whatever but just another cut thing I guess 
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Jul 20, 2018 03:09
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I just use D Walker and brute force the rock skulls missions. They aren't fun enough to warrant doing it the right way.
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Jul 20, 2018 03:15
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Yeah sniping them while they're distracted or other overkill firepower feels like the only guaranteed way to finish 'em most of the time. Which is a shame because I really like the feel of the "counter their melee, then wail on them" style, but you can get screwed by RNG doing that if they decide to all go into their gunner mode and stay put, or queue up some rock throws while you're in CQC. The codetalker one didn't annoy me as much since it was far enough in the game I'd unlocked more tricks. At that point in the convoy mission I'd only invested in non-lethal junk. So I was stuck using less ideal equipment. I also liked them as an 'oh poo poo threat' you had to run from in certain missions. Just the convoy one was probably the most frustrating thing for me in the game. I think they just needed a little more polish like a scripting rule to 'play fair' if you're locked in an animation, or something else that encouraged intense fighting instead of going with exploiting their AI that seems unable to deal with things shooting them from high ground. Of course I also was annoyed because I was playing the definitive edition so couldn't queue up stuff on the phone app and had to actually sit there taking damage waiting for stuff to load up on the idroid whenever I'd call in for ammo. Coolness Averted fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Jul 20, 2018 |
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Jul 20, 2018 03:24
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You can also run on top of the airport and pot shot them from the top tower
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Jul 20, 2018 03:56
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I don't remember if you can theoretically develop it at that point but if you can research the anti-tank sniper rifle use that.
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Jul 20, 2018 05:30
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Kibayasu posted:I don't remember if you can theoretically develop it at that point but if you can research the anti-tank sniper rifle use that. Not by the transport one, but yeah I think so for the airport one. Heck, if you didn't get a traps specialist (and you might not have yet) even the decoy trick is off the table for the transport one.
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Jul 20, 2018 05:33
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I went back and played that one with quiet after I got her the anti material rifle because holy poo poo she fucks those things up with that.
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Jul 20, 2018 06:42
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I'm stuck at that skulls mission with the truck too. I guess ill take another crack at it tonight with the strats mentioned.
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Jul 20, 2018 14:51
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