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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Conceptually or because the name happily represents the exact opposite of its function? Porque no los dos?
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Jul 21, 2018 09:18
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SplitSoul posted:The Ministry of Integration is hip with the whole internet thing and has installed a counter on its website. 
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Jul 21, 2018 09:25
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I'm losing a lot of my initial enthusiasm about working towards Danish citizenship. Done Module 3 (of 5) of DU Level 3 and wondering why I bother learning Danish if the country is run by parties I will never support. Is Sweden a better choice? I could move to Malmö pretty painlessly. I speak French and some German, Spanish, and now Danish.
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Jul 21, 2018 18:21
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Aren't nazis looking like they'll make major gains (like largest party or close to it) in Sweden's upcoming election?
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Jul 21, 2018 20:10
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Rust Martialis posted:I'm losing a lot of my initial enthusiasm about working towards Danish citizenship. Done Module 3 (of 5) of DU Level 3 and wondering why I bother learning Danish if the country is run by parties I will never support. With that mindset, you are probably going to run out of countries to live in rather soon. Also, there are no major differences between Sweden and Denmark, despite what people might tell you. Randarkman posted:Aren't nazis looking like they'll make major gains (like largest party or close to it) in Sweden's upcoming election? They are not nazis and have a zero tolerance policy against racism. Nazis have literally no public support in Sweden. Cardiac fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Jul 21, 2018 |
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Jul 21, 2018 20:18
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Potrzebie posted:Porque no los dos? Currently yes, but in an actual leftist government (fat chance with Mette Frederiksen somehow being the big hope of the left), it could theoretically work towards helping at-risk youths or socially isolated adults. Rust Martialis posted:I'm losing a lot of my initial enthusiasm about working towards Danish citizenship. Done Module 3 (of 5) of DU Level 3 and wondering why I bother learning Danish if the country is run by parties I will never support. Are you an EU citizen? Most non-EU natives I've met who live in Denmark have a Swedish citizenship or are living in Malmö until they can get one. It's apparently much less of a hassle than dealing with all the bullshit requirements and an administration that actively wants you to fail. E: Well, SD are technically nativists, but they do have widespread support from Sweden's growing nazi demographic.
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Jul 21, 2018 20:33
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Cardiac posted:They are not nazis and have a zero tolerance policy against racism. lol, no. They claim to have that, but the party is chock full of racists who can not help themselves from spewing racism all over the place. Or is it only racism if someone goes "I'M A RACIST"?
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Jul 21, 2018 20:52
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Cardiac posted:Nazis have literally no public support in Sweden. And yet nazis can publicly beat up gay people without getting stopped.
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Jul 21, 2018 22:52
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Potrzebie posted:lol, no. They claim to have that, but the party is chock full of racists who can not help themselves from spewing racism all over the place. So how many of your friends and family members are racist then? Roughly 20-25% of the Swedish male population would vote SD, which means unless you live in a bubble, a fair amount of them will be SD supporters. A fact which is extra funny in this male dominated forum. Another funny fact from SCB, roughly 10% of the foreign born immigrants would vote SD. The point is this: SD used to be a nationalist party, which have now transformed into a populist party with nationalist roots. In the same way that VPK used to be a communist party, and is now basically a social democratic party. As for SD, the hardcore nationalist have left for AfS, while the Nazis in NMR hate them all for being race traitors.
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Jul 22, 2018 05:52
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Cardiac posted:So how many of your friends and family members are racist then? Yes, everybody who votes SD is racist.
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Jul 22, 2018 05:58
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:
Dual citizenship: Canada + UK (inherited). gently caress Brexit, incidentally.
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Jul 22, 2018 07:59
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Cardiac posted:With that mindset, you are probably going to run out of countries to live in rather soon. As a progressive leftist, Denmark offers me fascists and, frankly, fascist enablers in Venstre and SD. As a Canadian, this has been a shock. Living in København I have actual leftists to vote for but they are not forming a government any time soon. SD is a huuuuge letdown federally.
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Jul 22, 2018 08:03
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Cardiac posted:So how many of your friends and family members are racist then? But I do live in a bubble. Sthlm+academics=not a lot of racists. I have a former friend who voted SD last time. For the same reasons he chose that party, I chose to not be his friend any more. quote:A fact which is extra funny in this male dominated forum.  this is not how statistics work!quote:Another funny fact from SCB, roughly 10% of the foreign born immigrants would vote SD. Apart from the obvious bit about you defining immigrants as "others" excluding white people from abroad, this is literary the "I know a black person" argument. Yes, people can and do vote against their own best self interest. quote:The point is this: SD has gone from blatant BSS racism to dog whistle racism. Terms like "multikulturalism", "PK", "utlänning" and "invandrare" have a very different meaning when used by SD compared to how the words are (should be?) understood by normal people.
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Jul 22, 2018 09:31
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Rust Martialis posted:As a progressive leftist, Denmark offers me fascists and, frankly, fascist enablers in Venstre and SD. As a Canadian, this has been a shock. Living in København I have actual leftists to vote for but they are not forming a government any time soon. SD is a huuuuge letdown federally. Oh, but you can vote for SF or Ø, don't worry! Except that a vote for SF is a vote for SD by another name, and Ø are like DF, in that they'll do everything to stay out of a position of power. So three parties, with your vote being funneled to the one on the top. Which consists of selfish ghouls and enablers of fascism. And these are supposed to be the good guys.
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Jul 22, 2018 09:36
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Andrast posted:Yes, everybody who votes SD is racist. Disagree.
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Jul 22, 2018 10:06
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Oh poo poo, two different SDs in play. With regards to the Swedish one: Lol for defending them, but somehow not surprising in the most "I'm not a racist, but..."-racist thread on SA. They just have nationalist roots guys, they're not actually racist! They even have a zero tolerance policy! (ignores everything the party says and and does and the entirety of the people in the party being massive racists). With regards to the Danish one: Lol for defending them, but somehow not surprising in the most "I'm not a racist, but..."-racist thread on SA. They just have nationalist roots guys, they're not actually racist! They even have a zero tolerance policy! (ignores everything the party says and and does and the entirety of the people in the party being massive racists). Anyway, Denmark is certainly going down hill, the ethno conservo-fascist turn of the social democrats was maybe not a huge surprise, but it was a little unexpected that they would turn this hard right. It does represent an almost completely victory of the "conservative" (mainly defined by being bigots/racists these days) right though. We're literally at the point where some 70% of the political parties support objectively insanely bigoted policies. It's going to happen in Sweden too though, because as with danish peoples party, SD will probably manage to the broader public that you're not racist if you vote for them, even though you clearly have to be a huge loving racist to do so. That's exactly what happened in Denmark (over the course of 10-15 years). Journalist started taking them seriously, instead of laughing them out of the room when they say things like: "The UN is a muslim conspiracy" and "Some of us don't care about expects and statistics, when we can look out of our window and see how bad it is", they just held the microphone and let the idiots talk. Thus overton window shifted to the point where objectively incredibly bigoted policies are just being shrugged at. All actual meaning, fact and objectivity, and has completely evaporated from the political discourse on immigration, in favor scaring people with how the immigrant hordes are going to breed Denmark out of existence, and how they do more crime, and how they're terrorists and completely unsubstantiated bullshit like that. I doin't know who to blame really, as stupid people can't help but believe what politicians tell them and journalist dutifully report. Tldr; Denmark is a poo poo country for poo poo people. Can't sink into the sea fast enough. Revelation 2-13 fucked around with this message at 11:20 on Jul 22, 2018 |
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Jul 22, 2018 10:08
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I saw a bus ad the other day that had Mette Frederiksens mug and the message "Let's stop talking about immigration. We're all in agreement on that front," and some call to talk about the climate and welfare and all that junk. I think it's time to start protesting. Zulily Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 11:21 on Jul 22, 2018 |
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Jul 22, 2018 11:18
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:I saw a bus rear end the other day that had Mette Frederiksens mug and the message "Let's stop talking about immigration. We're all in agreement on that front," and some call to talk about the climate and welfare and all that junk. If you ever have the pleasure of riding the bus, you'll be blasted through the video screens with 1 minute SD propaganda every ten minutes. Didn't even think that was legal.
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Jul 22, 2018 11:21
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Andrast posted:Yes, everybody who votes SD is racist. Obviously not, which is my point. Rust Martialis posted:As a progressive leftist, Denmark offers me fascists and, frankly, fascist enablers in Venstre and SD. As a Canadian, this has been a shock. Living in København I have actual leftists to vote for but they are not forming a government any time soon. SD is a huuuuge letdown federally. Don’t you have Harper in Canada, so you should be used to it, unless you are Québécois? I have siblings that have done virtually the opposite path from you and btw ended up more to the left by moving to UK/Canada. Potrzebie posted:But I do live in a bubble. Sthlm+academics=not a lot of racists. I have a former friend who voted SD last time. For the same reasons he chose that party, I chose to not be his friend any more. Talk about fitting the archetype of a Stockholm academic. Btw what SCB also said that SD reaches 10% in academic circle. Finally, having spent virtually my whole working life within and around academia, saying someone is an academic is hardly indicative of anything, except maybe an overblown sense of self. Potrzebie posted:
If this thread was representative of Sweden (lol) roughly 1/4 of the male posters (ie most on SA) would be SD supporters. Whereas I would estimate this thread to contain on the order of 90% V voters. Potrzebie posted:Apart from the obvious bit about you defining immigrants as "others" excluding white people from abroad, this is literary the "I know a black person" argument. Yes, people can and do vote against their own best self interest. And here I took the definition of foreign born from SCB. Btw saying someone is voting against their own self interest is a perfect case of elitism.
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Jul 22, 2018 11:50
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Cardiac posted:Obviously not, which is my point. Obviously yes, which is my point
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Jul 22, 2018 11:53
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THE BAR posted:Oh, but you can vote for SF or Ø, don't worry! No no, Ø did that whole "This is what we'd do in the first 100 days if we had a parliamentary majority by ourselves". They detest Elbæk for saying gently caress the false dichotomy, too, because this time they can definitely pull the Social Democrats to the left and won't be sitting on their hands as welfare is further cut to pieces, another war is launched, public infrastructure is sold off to literal criminals, etc. I'd say if you vote for Ø, pick a candidate that isn't near the top of the list, but IIRC personal votes don't matter with that particular party unless they've changed it.
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Jul 22, 2018 13:16
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Cardiac posted:Don’t you have Harper in Canada, so you should be used to it, unless you are Québécois? We dumped Harper some time ago. The current Trudeau government is pro-immigration and multiculturalism. https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/11/canada-cabinet-trudeau/414280/ Rust Martialis fucked around with this message at 13:19 on Jul 22, 2018 |
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Jul 22, 2018 13:16
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As an aside, ethnonationalism has a problem in Canada as immigrant communities have acquired political influence. In B.C., concentrations of Chinese or Sikh immigrants have become locally empowered and eventually local power becomes federal as they elect Chinese or Sikh members of Parliament. Likewise in Toronto, Indians and Chinese communities have ended up concentrating in growing communities and are influential in politics. Once they get power, you can't ignore them.
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Jul 22, 2018 13:25
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Cardiac posted:Btw what SCB also said that SD reaches 10% in academic circle. Source need. I see 6% +-1.4% in the latest PSU. quote:Finally, having spent virtually my whole working life within and around academia, saying someone is an academic is hardly indicative of anything, except maybe an overblown sense of self. But what about my bubble, where SD-supporters are absent? Must be my superb personality working as a fly swatter against racists then I guess. quote:If this thread was representative of Sweden (lol) roughly 1/4 of the male posters (ie most on SA) would be SD supporters. Nowhere is representative of statistics. That is not how statistics work. quote:And here I took the definition of foreign born from SCB. Lol, are you trying to claim that this is a term with multiple definitions? Please tell me the SCB definition of "utrikes födda", I couldn't find it but I bet it includes everyone born outside of Sweden's border. quote:Btw saying someone is voting against their own self interest is a perfect case of elitism. Voters are immune against propaganda. Cool.
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Jul 22, 2018 13:27
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God damnit I'm arguing with Cardiac what is wrong with me. In May 2017 the new rules governing part time fire fighters went into effect. This was not popular with the actual firemen, and many quit. Now about a year later Sweden burns and we have a shortage of 4500 part timers and thus have to pay Danish, Polish and Finnish firefighters to come and help us. Sometimes life comes at you fast, but if history is any indication no one is to blame.
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Jul 22, 2018 13:37
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SplitSoul posted:I'd say if you vote for Ø, pick a candidate that isn't near the top of the list, but IIRC personal votes don't matter with that particular party unless they've changed it. My cousin from Ø is voteable on a municipal level, but yeah, a vote for him goes straight into the pool. They're still the leagues ahead of anyone else socially, shame they rarely have the will or momentum to do anything with it. That, and they're aligned with greedy murderers in SD and friends.
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Jul 22, 2018 13:55
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Potrzebie posted:God damnit I'm arguing with Cardiac what is wrong with me.
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Jul 22, 2018 14:10
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Cardiac posted:Obviously not, which is my point. Out of sheer academic curiosity, what's your definition of "racist" and to what rough percentage of the adult population would you say it applies? Because all your numbers are saying is that at minimum 20% of voting Swedes are racist and have no problem with it.
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Jul 22, 2018 15:55
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Cardiac posted:
we're just a few pages until slurs like "uncle tom" will be dropped when posters are faced with the uncomfortable reality of immigrants wanting more security and harsher punishment for crimes.
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Jul 22, 2018 17:48
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saying 20% of swedes are racist is just meaningless virtue signaling. it might technically be that many or more but the actual problem is generic xenophobia and idealism. people can 100% believe in lockean tabula rasa poo poo but still think of culture as simply a virus passed down the generations
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Jul 22, 2018 18:46
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Mercrom posted:saying 20% of swedes are racist is just meaningless virtue signaling. it might technically be that many or more but the actual problem is generic xenophobia and idealism. people can 100% believe in lockean tabula rasa poo poo but still think of culture as simply a virus passed down the generations That’s just semantics
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Jul 22, 2018 18:54
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Andrast posted:That’s just semantics thats 90% of politics
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Jul 22, 2018 18:55
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Mercrom posted:thats 90% of politics Not really
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Jul 22, 2018 18:57
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The far right is very invested in distancing themselves from the Nazis for obvious reasons. It's the same reason why you end up with people arguing for and saying the most racist poo poo yet they will claim they are not racist when called out on it anywhere but in their own forums. You should take this as seriously as you take the bad faith "advice" or political commentary they provide to their rivals out of the goodness of their hearts. Also, put Cardiac on your ignore list, all of his posts can be summed up with the above. thotsky fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Jul 22, 2018 |
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Jul 22, 2018 19:03
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the incredibly inefficient nature of human communication combined with the intense bias present in political discussion means its almost all basically semantics, sorry to tell you of course in practice this means there is no reason to try to communicate honestly instead of in a manipulative manner. but while equating cultural xenophobia with racism is good most of the time, because they are both bad, its not gonna work so well when you encounter opponents whose entire defense is that they are a classical liberal or whatever who categorically rejects racism also this is a pretty leftist forum we dont need to propagandize
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Jul 22, 2018 19:14
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Mercrom posted:the incredibly inefficient nature of human communication combined with the intense bias present in political discussion means its almost all basically semantics, sorry to tell you Classical liberalism is hella racist, though.
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Jul 22, 2018 19:29
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Mercrom posted:saying 20% of swedes are racist is just meaningless virtue signaling. it might technically be that many or more but the actual problem is generic xenophobia and idealism. people can 100% believe in lockean tabula rasa poo poo but still think of culture as simply a virus passed down the generations Mercrom posted:the incredibly inefficient nature of human communication combined with the intense bias present in political discussion means its almost all basically semantics, sorry to tell you I'll be honest, I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about here. We shouldn't refer to racists as racists because they respond poorly to it? This isn't a public debate, or even a casual conversation among friends. If Cardiac was going to peace out because people resent his racist views, he'd have left this thread long ago.
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Jul 22, 2018 20:37
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tbqh im just a pedant id like to blame my countrys pending decline into fascism on lack of honest intellectual discourse, but i realize it might just as well be because we got too comfortable and decoromy to punch nazis or whatever.
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Jul 22, 2018 21:12
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:I'll be honest, I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about here. We shouldn't refer to racists as racists because they respond poorly to it? This isn't a public debate, or even a casual conversation among friends. If Cardiac was going to peace out because people resent his racist views, he'd have left this thread long ago. I think the point is that racism is a poorly defined term for most people, and for many the term describes xenophobia & conservatism rather than one deeming others innately inferior due to descent. Saying that someone is racist when that person's definition of racism differs significantly from yours is basically arguing semantics. But to fruitfully discuss politics and codify politics into laws etc one needs to go into boring details such as semantics. Zudgemud fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Jul 22, 2018 |
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Jul 22, 2018 21:33
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Dette er folka som som Erna gir ministerposter til: https://twitter.com/farukhq/status/1021080327517868034
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Jul 22, 2018 22:33
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